Technique - Need Help!

[PlasmaLight]

So hey guys, today I filmed my forehand and backhand, because I wanted to know, how it looks like and what I can do better So I did 7min multiball

So my Forehand is quite good, I think. Maybe the movement could be a little bit shorter.

But the biggest problem is my backhand. So I often watched Ma Longs multiball training and I tried to play my backhand with wrist and forearm. But the problem is, that it only feels that way. When I watched to film, I saw, that I still jsut use my frist. And as you can see in the video, I cant control the ball very well. So my quastion is: What can i do, to use my forearm?

 

[ttmonster]

Plasmalight I have gone through a lot to fix my back hand so hopefullyI will be able to share something that will be help you. Here are my observations :
1. I think your shoulder is hurting. Remember you not doing it right if your shoulder is hurting, even if it looks okay in video. Your shoulder should be completely relaxed.
2. There should me more leg and waist involved and it has to be co-ordinated. Right now it is more arm. Your elbow should be the distance of one fist from your side and no further and you should be going round your elbow for the stroke. The rest of the technique looks okay, e.g. positioning of your left hand etc.
3. Also try to hit more cross court , it will help your in defining your technique early on. Going down the line will not help you initially.

 

[Steven]

For your backhand I think you should try to hit more forward instead of upward. Now your bat ends above your head, while it should end to your right side, around shoulder height. That way you can generate more power and a more solid stroke.
Also try to use your body rotation some more.
I think Liu Guoliang is explaining both of these aspects in this video. Especially try comparing your "end height" to Ma Long's.

 

[Abakus]

Ok, I'm not that good (TTR ~1300 ), but what the heck^^

Your FH has good speed and spin, but what you should also mind the ball placement. It looks like you are just focusing on speed.

I agree with ttmonster about your backhand. I'm not sure, but it looks like you are lifting your upper arm and use your wrist for your BH-topspin. I think the upper arm should be quite stable and your forearm should move around your elbow (also der Ellenbogen quasi als Drehpunkt).

I'm not sure whether what I said is right or wrong, because I'm not a professional coach But you can just try it in your next training session

I hope, I could help you

 

[Der_Echte]

Hey Plasma... Cool you like Xiom jerseys!

Your 1st vid of FH loopdriving you looked pretty consistant vs those weak underspins in slow multiball. Your partner could do a better job feeding you if he would stand close to the net, it is much easier to feed from next to the net on hte side of the table. it doesn't take much of a stroke to feed underspin. He looked like he was using way too much a stroke to give you weak underspin. You were not required to move much and the pace of balls was very slow. It only shows a little of your ability. Since you had a ton of time, you could use a full backswing, drop the shoulder and make big folowthorough. That will be much harder in a live match vs a close to the table player, but you were just doing a FH drill so big deal. You have enough explosion to trouble whatever players you will face at your level. Your landing percentage in this drill was good and the drill would have more value if the feeder could feed more consistantly. Have him read this, allow him to get upset, and tell him I will buy him an Oberdorfer Dunkleshefeweissen if I maek my way back to Germany in a few years.

As for your BH vid, your landing percentage is higher than you give credit to yourself. Again, the drill is slow, the balls not fed consistantly, you are not required to move much and you try for the same BH fast loop finishing or pressure shot. I do not think you are as fundementally unsound with your basic fast BH stroke as you think you are. Your misses were mostly trying to hit out of the optimal strike zone. Occasionally, you were a bit late on the stroke. The BH stroke is not as dynamic as FH and you must be in good position NOT on the move to make a high percentage quality BH shot. Some of your misses, you failed to make a minor adjustment to the position and it caused you to hit out of zone for misses. When you timed the ball correctly and hit inside your optimal hitting zone (on your left side kinda close to your body) you had nice wrist action and decent spin. It would be good to see you try a few different types of BH loops, like control loop, heavy slow loop, medium loops, and fast loop.

You will improve your BH consistancy right away by being in the right position, waiting for the ball or moving to it, and hitting within your impact zone.

 

[Mauno100]

It's hard to give advice about your arm movement over the internet but couple things I can say about other things. It was good that your friend fed a bit irregular balls to your backhand because it revealed the no.1 reason you missed the table. When you got a bit faster or longer ball you hit the ball to early. Idealy backhand should be played on the highest point or after. On slower and shorter balls you barely missed at all. Secondly your arm moves separately from the rest of the body. Try to get a movement chain going. In a way that it starts from your legs and ends in the ball hitting the table. Thirdly dont compromise with backhand. Always get to the perfect position to hit. Backhand requires better timing and balance than forehand just to get the ball on the table.

Some tips that I've found helpful when improving backhand. Keep most of the weight on the left foot (right handed). Dont force the movement. Try different techniques on different type of balls.

 

[PlasmaLight]

thanks for the tipps guys, you´re awesome :O try to exercise with them

 

[YosuaYosan]

I am still learning my forehand and I use short pips on backhand but I will contribute my best for you man

Forehand:
Is solid but I think focusing on arc and placement comes first before speed.
Read this at Ma Long.docx

Backhand:
You can see in the Ma Long multiball that Coach Liu twists his body as a sign that Ma Long needs to backhand loop with his body and legs..
What I see is that you are using too much arm and shoulder (could injure you, watch out!) for the backhand loop.
The shoulder must be relaxed and act as a perfect bridge for power transfer from your mid-lower body to the big arm, forearm and finally your arm and wrist.
Ma Long do it in such a way that the power transfer is almost unseen but I believe it is there by looking at Ma Long's whip like arm.

Best wishes for your table tennis, Chris!
Yosan

 

[Der_Echte]

Yosan presents the wording much better. Might be hard to see on the vid or live, but all the power starts low and works its way up. Wide stance, waist gets down/twisted, hitting shoulder gets rotated in front of ball (BUT down some vs an underspin ball) It all gets timed (HELPS a LOT) to be in position! The power moves through all of that. Elbow can stay near body some for power, but can be up ) like Timo Boll for example, for more spin/less speed. Rotating the body and impacting more forward gives more power and more use of leg power, which is very important.

When you are on balance, in position, and impacting the ball in your optimal strike zone, you do a lot of this already. You get the power by getting a little lower by dropping waist (arm and elbow go down with waist vs underspin) and let teh legs start everything.

I use a $7 USD BH rubber on a basic OFF blade (TBS) and get a load of spin where the goal is spin, not speed, and a ton of power where I need it. I have a good core and use the legs well. I have Popeye like-forearms (scrawny thin wrist and large forearms with elbows sticking out!) that help my wrist snap, and yes, using more wrist is good for more spin and speed, but Popeye eats his spinach and can use his legs and waist. That is the key for the power. It can also help the spin vs an underspin ball if you swing and explode up a little more and a little less forward.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

The BH stroke is not as dynamic as FH and you must be in good position NOT on the move to make a high percentage quality BH shot. Some of your misses, you failed to make a minor adjustment to the position and it caused you to hit out of zone for misses. When you timed the ball correctly and hit inside your optimal hitting zone (on your left side kinda close to your body) you had nice wrist action and decent spin.

So far there have been a lot of good comments in this thread that should help you. I think Der_Echte's comment above is central to what is going on. You might do some drills where you are hitting with your backhand and just trying to do control loops and you are being moved around a little. You might start with a pattern like the ball at the backhand corner first and then halfway between the backhand corner and the mid-line, and going back and forth between those two spots. Then when that feels really solid, you might have the ball placement more random so you have to see and judge where the ball is going.

One of the big things that is happening in your stroke is that you are not moving your feet to the ball, even when it is just a movement of a few inches, and instead, you are moving your arm to take the shot, which means your stroke keeps changing a little. When you have the ball lined up so that your elbow is in the optimal place and your racket head is in the optimal place for the backhand stroke, your forearm moves how it should. When you move your elbow left or right to get the racket head in line with the ball, instead of moving your feet, you lift with your shoulder and the ball goes out, your you use too much wrist to compensate for the fact that your not in position to take the most efficient stroke from the hinging of the elbow.

This is just one piece of information. Many things that have been said sound extremely useful. But, it looks to me like you do have a nice solid game and good fundamental strokes. If the feet are in place, things like the timing and the body added to the arm, will, I believe, start falling into place better.

 

[YosuaYosan]

Might want to check this out, Chris!

 

[ducksick]

Hi Plasma,

1st, you knew it, the ball is underspin, so take it slowly.Don't rush. Squat a bit, from leg to waist, use the power from there. You missed those ball because you didn't brushes the ball at all, apply altogeher, wrist movement as well.Do it slowly til you can have a ball feeling,and then, slowly apply more power. Pls, take good care of the knee as well ya, cos practices BH, when squat down do hurt a lot.