Tenergy 19 vs Dignics 80/64 For Backhand

[bhenthusiast]

Does anyone have any experience with the 3 of these BTY rubbers in comparison with something like a Fastarc C-1, Rakza 7, Vega Pro, Hexer(old tensors) as I'm familiar with that class of rubbers for BH. My current sheet of Vega Pro is dead and wanted to see how the T19 and D80/D64 compare. I know the Dignics are better durability, but harder than the Tenergies.

BH dominant offensive player. Feel more comfortable pushing, opening, flicking, punching, blocking, serving on the BH side. Always try to take the initiative opening with backhand(banana for half-longs, spinny high arcing loop for long serves/pushes) then try to finish the point with either FH(smash, drive, counter looping anywhere), ripping BH crosscourt, or BH punching down the line/crosscourt; these are my comfort shots). Win most of my points through spin than speed(most of my points come from BH loops, opps shot fly off table usually), but crosscourt BH rip also wins me a lot of points when I get used to opponent's timing. FH is only used to finish the point when I know for a fact my footwork gets me in perfect position/timing, so I don't pivot as much as other offensive players.

Main questions are: how different is the shortgame(serve, serve receive, pushing, flicking) on the T19 vs D80 vs D64. From my research seems like D64 is the least spin sensitive, but also the fastest and least spinny? Does this mean potential max speed(when applying full effort)? Or does that also apply to also touch shots like pushes? How do these properties compare to Vega Pro/Hexer/C-1/Rakza 7? 1700 USATT, blade Viscaria if that matters.

For BH punching I've seen people praise D64, but again I'm concerned about the shortgame and speed of it vs the other 2 options.

 

[NextLevel]

Those are all good rubbers, probably the most all round is Dignics 80, but Dignics 64 and Tenergy 19 are pretty spinny and good as well. They are much faster and broadly produce more spin than the Vega Pro/Hexer/Rakza 7 generation though I have a soft spot for Hexer,C-1 and Rakza 7, but they are definitely not as good for combined spin and speed as the Butterfly rubbers. The speed ratings must be taken with a grain of salt sometimes, they say more about trajectory/arc than about what happens when you apply maximum effort to produce spin and speed. D80 produces a more powerful spinny ball than D64 but it you need more effort to produce it, but that is because D80 has a higher spin arc than 64 when you go full effort with it (some people debate the arc of both, but I will stick with the Butterfly blurbs and my experience). D64 blocks better in that it directs the ball straightforwardly a bit more than 80 while 80 tends to arc the ball upwards. T19 is the one I don't have as much experience with but it is arguably a more mid distance and linear Tenergy 05. Still a notch above the ESN classic series that you listed in speed and spin combined.

The ESN are good spin with great control, but they are not as fast and offensive as any of the Butterfly rubbers.

 

[bhenthusiast]

Those are all good rubbers, probably the most all round is Dignics 80, but Dignics 64 and Tenergy 19 are pretty spinny and good as well. They are much faster and broadly produce more spin than the Vega Pro/Hexer/Rakza 7 generation though I have a soft spot for Hexer,C-1 and Rakza 7, but they are definitely not as good for combined spin and speed as the Butterfly rubbers. The speed ratings must be taken with a grain of salt sometimes, they say more about trajectory/arc than about what happens when you apply maximum effort to produce spin and speed. D80 produces a more powerful spinny ball than D64 but it you need more effort to produce it, but that is because D80 has a higher spin arc than 64 when you go full effort with it (some people debate the arc of both, but I will stick with the Butterfly blurbs and my experience). D64 blocks better in that it directs the ball straightforwardly a bit more than 80 while 80 tends to arc the ball upwards. T19 is the one I don't have as much experience with but it is arguably a more mid distance and linear Tenergy 05. Still a notch above the ESN classic series that you listed in speed and spin combined.

The ESN are good spin with great control, but they are not as fast and offensive as any of the Butterfly rubbers.

Thanks for the insight! Since you're familiar with that class of tensors I have a couple other questions about how they compare.

Between the D64, D80 and those tensors which one is the easiest in the shortgame(specifically serve receive)? For me C-1 and Rakza 7 were more forgiving than Vega Pro and Hexer in the shortgame slightly, even if I misjudged they still got on to the table/didn't pop up as high vs the VP and Hexer being more spin sensitive(to me). I know the D64 is less spin sensitive than D80, but does the D64's speed make it less controllable in serve receive? Or does the spin insensitivity outweigh the speed difference?

Will wait for any T19 users for that comparison, but with how you described the blocking and effort level to produce quality spinny shots I'm leaning towards D64 to be safe(and if I feel confident with that graduate to D80 when the D64 sheet dies). How does the D64 and D80 behave for BH flicks? Pretty confident in my ability to generate power for winners/mid/far distance, it's more the short game I'm worried about since I have no experience with BTY rubbers(T05 from a friend's racket but that was years ago for a game or 2)

 

[NextLevel]

Thanks for the insight! Since you're familiar with that class of tensors I have a couple other questions about how they compare.

Between the D64, D80 and those tensors which one is the easiest in the shortgame(specifically serve receive)? For me C-1 and Rakza 7 were more forgiving than Vega Pro and Hexer in the shortgame slightly, even if I misjudged they still got on to the table/didn't pop up as high vs the VP and Hexer being more spin sensitive(to me). I know the D64 is less spin sensitive than D80, but does the D64's speed make it less controllable in serve receive? Or does the spin insensitivity outweigh the speed difference?

Will wait for any T19 users for that comparison, but with how you described the blocking and effort level to produce quality spinny shots I'm leaning towards D64 to be safe(and if I feel confident with that graduate to D80 when the D64 sheet dies). How does the D64 and D80 behave for BH flicks? Pretty confident in my ability to generate power for winners/mid/far distance, it's more the short game I'm worried about since I have no experience with BTY rubbers(T05 from a friend's racket but that was years ago for a game or 2)

Dignics broadly is not as jumpy as Tenergy and Tenergy 19 was designed to not be as jumpy as T05 (I have two sheets of T19, just haven't played with them, I have tested a Teammates blade, he said he was happy to switch from 05 to 19 on forehand because he could play flat more). The thing is that 64 feels softer and for some people, that doesn't go well with short pushing. But ultimately it is a personal thing, and the long pushes are great.

So bottom line, T05 was renowned for its jumpiness, none of the rubbers you chose have that problem, though ultimately, such skills are in the hand of the player.

 

[bhenthusiast]

Dignics broadly is not as jumpy as Tenergy and Tenergy 19 was designed to not be as jumpy as T05 (I have two sheets of T19, just haven't played with them, I have tested a Teammates blade, he said he was happy to switch from 05 to 19 on forehand because he could play flat more). The thing is that 64 feels softer and for some people, that doesn't go well with short pushing. But ultimately it is a personal thing, and the long pushes are great.

So bottom line, T05 was renowned for its jumpiness, none of the rubbers you chose have that problem, though ultimately, such skills are in the hand of the player.

Noted! Was looking for the easiest transition from the older tensors, but seems like either way I'll be fine. Between D64 and D80, D80 might be good if I also want to change my FH rubber(I cycle between H3 Neo, Battle II, Big Dipper) to try out BTY on FH, never heard anyone use D64 on FH so it's kind of like a 2 birds 1 stone thing. Boosting is a pain 😭 On the other hand I have seen Adriana Diaz use that BH punch that I like to use as well and she uses(used to use? not sure at the moment) D64 so that might be better in a specificity sense.

 

[NextLevel]

Noted! Was looking for the easiest transition from the older tensors, but seems like either way I'll be fine. Between D64 and D80, D80 might be good if I also want to change my FH rubber(I cycle between H3 Neo, Battle II, Big Dipper) to try out BTY on FH, never heard anyone use D64 on FH so it's kind of like a 2 birds 1 stone thing. Boosting is a pain 😭 On the other hand I have seen Adriana Diaz use that BH punch that I like to use as well and she uses(used to use? not sure at the moment) D64 so that might be better in a specificity sense.

64 is pretty decent on forehand, it is a style choice, people who are used to arcing low balls with thick brush with confidence will not be huge fans of 64 vs something like 09c or Zyre or 05 because arc and spin matter when you are trying to thread the needle under precise conditions with power, but D64 is a high performance rubber, good spin and speed, just maybe not as much spin as D80 or its bigger spin brothers, but still a spinny rubber especially on brush strokes and more natural when flat hitting/smashing. I find that with most of these rubbers, a shot that got your opponent to miss the block with one rubber might not with the next but over time, the gap becomes something you forget except at the margins, 90% of the shots that win with one rubber will win with the other, its the impact of that 10% that one has to decide what that means for your game because 10% is not insignificant in a tight game of TT.

 

[Lando]

I notice the ball kicks more when I play against a clubmate that uses tenergy 19 on both sides.

 

[NextLevel]

I notice the ball kicks more when I play against a clubmate that uses tenergy 19 on both sides.

He might just be a good player. That said, Tenergy 19 was designed to make mid-distance Euro style looping great again. Whether it succeeds at any level, people can judge that.

 

[disaster3]

I have/had all of them but t19 I liked the least. If it comes to Tenergy, T05 and T64 are best for me. T05 on FH and T64 on BH. I'm also BH dominant player and did not pivot because I can crash the opponent with my BH. I'm kinda exception in my club and all my club mates always push to my FH or middle (avoiding BH). Everything what @NextLevel mentioned is true so I will not repeat, what I can add is that on our amateur level also condition matters. Sometimes Tenergy behaves better than Dignics and opposite. I noticed that in Poland when Fall/Winter comes and temperatures decrease Dignics became a bit harder vs how it is in Summer, and due to temp differences outside vs inside also humidity increase and we have figure skating on the Dignics (ice). I found that Tenergy (because they are softer) behave better. It is different when it is warmer. If you are ok to play both tenergy and dignics I found that in summer I prefer Dignics.
It is of course issue for some who are not EJ like me to have more then 1 setup. What I can also confirm, based on my experience, nothing plays like BTY rubbers... someone can call me fanboy, it doesn't matter but if it comes to performance, weight (for me it's very import aspect), versatility, durability nothing can reach that quality.
Of course we can find similar rubber which can be lighter, but not durable or have the same performance, etc. I sticked to BTY rubbers and in terms of rubbers I'm done.
At this moment I've following setups which are always in my bag
Golden VIS + D64 + D05
Golden VIS + T05Fx + T05
Xiom Hugo HAL + D80 + D05
OSP Martin AC FL (similiar to BTY Freitas ALC - in terms of composition) + T05FX + T64
OSP Martin AC ST + MXP + MXS ( I always wanted to check Tibhar evo rubbers so I bought both to check and they are heavier than Tenergies)
Victas FireFall FC + 2xT05

D64 and D80 are really good BH rubbers, D64 seems to be softer in feeling but for me I can play both on BH it doesn't matter. If someone is not very sensitive (like me) then both D64 and D80 can behave the same and they are really good BH rubbers

 

[bhenthusiast]

I have/had all of them but t19 I liked the least. If it comes to Tenergy, T05 and T64 are best for me. T05 on FH and T64 on BH. I'm also BH dominant player and did not pivot because I can crash the opponent with my BH. I'm kinda exception in my club and all my club mates always push to my FH or middle (avoiding BH). Everything what @NextLevel mentioned is true so I will not repeat, what I can add is that on our amateur level also condition matters. Sometimes Tenergy behaves better than Dignics and opposite. I noticed that in Poland when Fall/Winter comes and temperatures decrease Dignics became a bit harder vs how it is in Summer, and due to temp differences outside vs inside also humidity increase and we have figure skating on the Dignics (ice). I found that Tenergy (because they are softer) behave better. It is different when it is warmer. If you are ok to play both tenergy and dignics I found that in summer I prefer Dignics.
It is of course issue for some who are not EJ like me to have more then 1 setup. What I can also confirm, based on my experience, nothing plays like BTY rubbers... someone can call me fanboy, it doesn't matter but if it comes to performance, weight (for me it's very import aspect), versatility, durability nothing can reach that quality.
Of course we can find similar rubber which can be lighter, but not durable or have the same performance, etc. I sticked to BTY rubbers and in terms of rubbers I'm done.
At this moment I've following setups which are always in my bag
Golden VIS + D64 + D05
Golden VIS + T05Fx + T05
Xiom Hugo HAL + D80 + D05
OSP Martin AC FL (similiar to BTY Freitas ALC - in terms of composition) + T05FX + T64
OSP Martin AC ST + MXP + MXS ( I always wanted to check Tibhar evo rubbers so I bought both to check and they are heavier than Tenergies)
Victas FireFall FC + 2xT05

D64 and D80 are really good BH rubbers, D64 seems to be softer in feeling but for me I can play both on BH it doesn't matter. If someone is not very sensitive (like me) then both D64 and D80 can behave the same and they are really good BH rubbers
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Good to know about the rubber properties under different weather conditions. I guess I chose the worst time in the year to get Dignics
The weight is also another huge plus and factor for us BH dominant players!

Asked about T19 since I've read it's less spin sensitive and bouncy compared to T05, not sure if I could make the jump from old tensors to T05 that quickly for the shortgame specifically. Seeing you and NextLevel mention that both D64 and D80 are good for BH, I might as well flip a coin to pick lol

 

[NextLevel]

I know someone who used D64 on forehand, he was more of a smasher though he did loop backspin. On slow spinning loops and counters, I could not tell the difference. But the main thing was that when he smashed, he got a quick ball through the table since the feeling and topsheet were relatively soft. If he had used Dignicis 05, the ball would have arced slightly more and would have been slower and he might have had to consider the contact point more carefully.

I feel the whole forehand vs backhand rubber thing is overstated, a lot depends on how you hit the ball. I have seen people whose forehands frighten me with their topspin use T64. Ultimately no one can tell what suits you. The one thing I will cede is that if you have excess power to generate on both forehand and backhand, harder and more spin based rubbers will help you add power consistently. But people should defer to results when evaluating these rubbers. I would never have guessed that D80 would be my forehand rubber of choice over D05 or D09c. But when I looped with it, my coach just liked the ball quality better.

 

[bhenthusiast]

I'll go with D80, seems to be the most balanced jack of all trades type vibe. Only way to find out is through experiencing it like NextLevel said. Thanks for the input everyone!
Still curious about T19, but I'll see how I like the D80 first.

 

[xiaoliu100]

I have played with tenergy 19 and dignic 64 but on different blades. The main difference are:

- All dignics have harder sponge, and require more effort to activate. Definitely plays better on a faster blade.
- Tenergy 19 is easier to activate, and can be played on a softer blade
- Dignics topsheet is grippier, its easy to brush. Both have soft topsheet however.
- Dignics 64 is very controllable in short game but its not easy to push with a lot of spin
- Dignics 64 is very good at playing powerloops and smashes on the forehand, its has a higher ceiling than tenergy 19.
- Both are good at passive blocking
- Dignics and tenergy 19 are both easy to lift backspin. However the quality of spin and speed is higher if you go for a powerloop on the dignics.
- Basically Dignics 64 can play bomba loops and smashes while the tenergy 19 is more for fast pace rally and spin-control.
- Dignics seems to be more durable than tenergy 19. The edges don't chip as much.
- Dignics 64 is the lightest Dignics rubber, and is lighter than T05 according to the butterfly website.

 

[bhenthusiast]

I have played with tenergy 19 and dignic 64 but on different blades. The main difference are:

- All dignics have harder sponge, and require more effort to activate. Definitely plays better on a faster blade.
- Tenergy 19 is easier to activate, and can be played on a softer blade
- Dignics topsheet is grippier, its easy to brush. Both have soft topsheet however.
- Dignics 64 is very controllable in short game but its not easy to push with a lot of spin
- Dignics 64 is very good at playing powerloops and smashes on the forehand, its has a higher ceiling than tenergy 19.
- Both are good at passive blocking
- Dignics and tenergy 19 are both easy to lift backspin. However the quality of spin and speed is higher if you go for a powerloop on the dignics.
- Basically Dignics 64 can play bomba loops and smashes while the tenergy 19 is more for fast pace rally and spin-control.
- Dignics seems to be more durable than tenergy 19. The edges don't chip as much.
- Dignics 64 is the lightest Dignics rubber, and is lighter than T05 according to the butterfly website.

Thanks for the detailed insight xiaoliu!

Is the shortgame a lot easier on D64 compared to T19(I know you said the D64 is easy, but if D64 was a 9/10 for shortgame what would you put T19; 10 being best/easiest shortgame)? Pushing with heavy backspin for me isn't really a priority if I can keep it short and low, long pushing with spin against better players at least at my club is asking to lose the initiative and going on the defense, which I want to get out of the habit of.
I have read the T19 has more time/dwell on the rubber vs the other Tenergies, but it is still a Tenergy so I feel like a D80 or D64 would be an easier transition for me as even if T19 is more controlled it is still a Tenergy(bouncy).

 

[xiaoliu100]

Short game on T19 is fine. In terms of 'bouncy', I don't think the tenergies are as bouncy as you think if you are coming from ESN. T19 feels like there more dwell than T05, but also it loses a bit of direct power. Where you might need more dwell is on your forehand but on the backhand T05 is better for most players. (My opinion)

In terms of transition, if you want a similar rubber the tenergy series are closer to vega/c-1/rakza due both being around 45-48 ESN hardness. The Dignics are like 50-52 ESN hardness I think. Anyway I found all the ESN rubbers get old very quickly, and its hard to develop my technique when my equipment is always changing its properties. With Butterfly rubbers you won't get that.

 

[bhenthusiast]

Short game on T19 is fine. In terms of 'bouncy', I don't think the tenergies are as bouncy as you think if you are coming from ESN. T19 feels like there more dwell than T05, but also it loses a bit of direct power. Where you might need more dwell is on your forehand but on the backhand T05 is better for most players. (My opinion)

In terms of transition, if you want a similar rubber the tenergy series are closer to vega/c-1/rakza due both being around 45-48 ESN hardness. The Dignics are like 50-52 ESN hardness I think. Anyway I found all the ESN rubbers get old very quickly, and its hard to develop my technique when my equipment is always changing its properties. With Butterfly rubbers you won't get that.

That's a good point the Vega Pro/Hexer were pretty bouncy already, C-1 and Rakza 7 a bit less so.
50 is a pretty big step up from the 45-47ish I'm used to. Will have to think on that then.
C-1's durability is really good the others a bit less so, things like MX-P are awful not even a month.
How much longer does the Dignics last compared to Tenergy(before it has to be replaced)?