the thickness of rubber !

[Ahmad Arnous]

a year ago I would of agree with slower rubber in max.
After spending some time with "real" equipment experts, I now understand why 1.8mm/2.0mm exists
Max is mostly a mental block to get away from and in countries like SA, no one will buy 1.8mm or 2.0mm, everyone think they are pros or good enough to use Max

In mature markets, the biggest sales are 2.0mm (or one less than max) as they understand equipment more.
Better rubber will have the advantages on spin/technologies etc (sponge)

Thinner sponge will allow more control while using a more advance rubber

The realty, even the equipment expert agrees as a world wide trend.
Most people is using equipment beyond them and are not truly using them at the true potential, and in fact by having a small reduction of sponge will benefit the user more than not able to using a max sponge.

If we were to use a USATT rating, if we were to say 2300 or maybe 2400 and under should not go Max, this was kind of the direction I got from this expert.
And this expert is one of the best in the world as far as my sources tell me.

here's a question arises .. what do the pro players use doesn't they use 1,9 -2.0 mm ???

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

here's a question arises .. what do the pro players use doesn't they use 1,9 -2.0 mm ???

Pros that boost, normally use 1 lesser than Max
So, it would be 1.9mm or 2.0mm depending on the rubber

Ones that don't boost normally use max

 

[StuartMarquis]

On the subject of sponge thickness, do rubbers like mxp and 05 still play like theyre supposed to in the thinnest sponge hickness? What I mean is, does an mxp or 05 with a 1.7mm sponge just play like a more controllable version of the max versions, or does the thinner sponge change characteristics other than control? Presumably some rubbers are better equipped than others to be played in various thicknesses without changing too many of the playing characteristics?

 

[yoass]

Well, I've played T05 1.9, Vega Pro 1.8 and Rasant Grip 1.7 as well as 2.0 versions of same and to me, yes, the thinner versions pretty much felt the same, with some speed traded in for some added control.

 

[StuartMarquis]

Thanks

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

my blocks is very well especially i use control blade my loop vs backspin is good but i don't have perfect switch technique (switch from loop vs backspin to loop vs block) , i'm bad with counterloop
m

Then the info TTTony gave at the outset is the info you need. And the conversation on how players generally use equipment that is beyond what they should is valuable. What you want is something with good control. And maybe the Nexi rubber Baal is describing would be a good choice.


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[Schlaftablette]

If you boost, you use max sponge. The rule is: rubber + sponge can be max 4mm. So pros boost till 4.4mm.

 

[Ilia Minkin]

Why not slower rubber in max? I'm not trying to be argumentative and I dont have a strong opinion, I just wonder about the rationale for the advice people are giving.

I wonder why nobody mentioned weight. MAX rubbers are noticeably heavier (usually) than, say, 1.8. In my opinion, a lighter racket is more suitable for a beginner/intermediate player. There are so many things to deal with in table tennis: reading spin, timing, footwork, placement etc. If at the same time you are suffering from the heavy feeling of your racket, it makes things even more difficult.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I wonder why nobody mentioned weight. MAX rubbers are noticeably heavier (usually) than, say, 1.8. In my opinion, a lighter racket is more suitable for a beginner/intermediate player. There are so many things to deal with in table tennis: reading spin, timing, footwork, placement etc. If at the same time you are suffering from the heavy feeling of your racket, it makes things even more difficult.

So, you wouldn't recommend one of Der_Echte's Beast Mod blades where he has added weight to the handle and made the blade weigh 120 grams without the rubber? You should try one.

On the last goon squad NYC adventure Der_ gave SmashFan a beast mod blade that weighed 120 grams and didn't say anything. SmashFan was about to buy it and Der_ told him how he modified it and how much it actually weighed. SmashFan all of a sudden went from saying it was so light and felt great and had great balance to saying he thought it might be too heavy for him. Hahaha. It was all in SmashFan's head.

Well, in spite of that, I think weight is a personal preference issue.


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[Ilia Minkin]

So, you wouldn't recommend one of Der_Echte's Beast Mod blades where he has added weight to the handle and made the blade weigh 120 grams without the rubber? You should try one.

On the last goon squad NYC adventure Der_ gave SmashFan a beast mod blade that weighed 120 grams and didn't say anything. SmashFan was about to buy it and Der_ told him how he modified it and how much it actually weighed. SmashFan all of a sudden went from saying it was so light and felt great and had great balance to saying he thought it might be too heavy for him. Hahaha. It was all in SmashFan's head.

Well, in spite of that, I think weight is a personal preference issue.


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Rubbers add weight to the head, not to the handle.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Rubbers add weight to the head, not to the handle.

Um....well...if you missed it, I was clowning around.

But I still feel, whatever weight your racket is, if you are used to it, it will be fine. At least within reason. At a certain point a blade can be too heavy and each person can determine for himself when something is too heavy.

But I remember when I first started I was using a blade that weighed 95 grams with H3 on FH. And that thing was definitely head heavy. But any time I tried someone else's racket, it felt too light and my beast of a racket felt just right.

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[Tony's Table Tennis]

If you boost, you use max sponge. The rule is: rubber + sponge can be max 4mm. So pros boost till 4.4mm.

4.4mm, right
so in your side of the world, they allow 4.4mm to play, interesting

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I wonder why nobody mentioned weight. MAX rubbers are noticeably heavier (usually) than, say, 1.8. In my opinion, a lighter racket is more suitable for a beginner/intermediate player. There are so many things to deal with in table tennis: reading spin, timing, footwork, placement etc. If at the same time you are suffering from the heavy feeling of your racket, it makes things even more difficult.

spot on.

most coaches will say beginners to use soft sponge for more control = lighter
most coaches will say thinner sponge for more control = lighter
most coaches will say 5 ply allround blade for more control = lighter

 

[NextLevel]

To put Ilia's statement in perspective, my default preference is usually 1.9-2.0mm hard sponge or soft-sponge in max. I think the weight considerations affect me a lot as I am not a fan of head heavy rackets for how I optimally like to play. Even when I used OVA or MX-S or MX-P, the preference was 2.0mm. If Karis M+ was available in 2.0mm, that would be my default. I don't boost, so thicker sponge doesn't do anything for me when the sponge is hard.

 

[Ahmad Arnous]

To put Ilia's statement in perspective, my default preference is usually 1.9-2.0mm hard sponge or soft-sponge in max. I think the weight considerations affect me a lot as I am not a fan of head heavy rackets for how I optimally like to play. Even when I used OVA or MX-S or MX-P, the preference was 2.0mm. If Karis M+ was available in 2.0mm, that would be my default. I don't boost, so thicker sponge doesn't do anything for me when the sponge is hard.

thank you ! very nice explanation , hard rubber with 2.0 thickness perfect choice

 

[NextLevel]

thank you ! very nice explanation , hard rubber with 2.0 thickness perfect choice

If the rubber is really hard, I can do 1.8mm - trust me, in the end, unless you soften the sponge, it is not going to make as big a difference as you think it will.

 

[Ilia Minkin]

If the rubber is really hard, I can do 1.8mm - trust me, in the end, unless you soften the sponge, it is not going to make as big a difference as you think it will.

That is a good point: the harder the sponge, the less one needs it. IMHO the only scenario where one needs > 1.9 of hard (or medium hard) sponge is when one someone is looping at you with all their almighty power and you are trying to counterloop it back with authority. Unless this happens at a daily basis, there is no need for a thick hard sponge.

 

[Schlaftablette]

4.4mm, right
so in your side of the world, they allow 4.4mm to play, interesting

Yes, 4.4mm.

Reason is 0.4 will be rounded down. If you do 0.5 it will be rounded up to 5.0.
So 4.4mm rounded down equals 4mm.

Maybe there are some Pros out there who boost 1.9 / 2.0 rubbers, but with "korean" methods, it is nearly impossible to reach 4.4mm without destroying the rubber, which means, the rubber is dead/not possible to play anymore.

My pleasure to answer your question!


Edit: Comment about "korean" boosting.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Yes, 4.4mm.

Reason is 0.4 will be rounded down. If you do 0.5 it will be rounded up to 5.0.
So 4.4mm rounded down equals 4mm.

Maybe there are some Pros out there who boost 1.9 / 2.0 rubbers, but with "korean" methods, it is nearly impossible to reach 4.4mm without destroying the rubber, which means, the rubber is dead/not possible to play anymore.

My pleasure to answer your question!


Edit: Comment about "korean" boosting.

interesting things in Korea
Mean while the rest of the world, ITTF has impose a 4mm or less rule for total thickness of rubber/sponge/glue
0.01mm the over 4mm, the bat will be disqualified by racket control table

So my advise to you my friend, when Koreans travel to other controls, the rest of the world used 4mm rule
4.4mm is over 4mm and will be disqualified

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

http://dr.ittf.com/stories/pictures/T9_Racket_Control_BoD_2013.pdf

Fyi
you are welcome