Thoughts on Playstyle?

[songdavid98]

A good player i know, who also happens to be a penholder, also told me about that defensive stance and offensive stance in the pnehold game. Sometimes he would just stand there and block all over the place and other times he would loop like crazy. However he hardly does both unless he has alot of time to change stance.

What migth help you are rpb blocks instead of the classic penhold blocks as the rpb has different angels.

What do you think?

LOL, I AM A RPB PLAYER!!!! I don't even try to do the classic penhold block. too funny,........... I appreciate the thought though, thanks.

You have identified something quite specific which is a good thing.

Yup, specifics are necessary. We have to improve one step at a time.

I appreciate everyone's opinion and ideas. We have something to learn from everyone. So don't get discouraged to speak up! (even Archo)

 

[Boogar]

Ah i see.
He plays the rpb aswell, but for blocks he uses both, depending on the situation.
More like ma lin style with a bit more rpb

 

[songdavid98]

Ah i see.
He plays the rpb aswell, but for blocks he uses both, depending on the situation.
More like ma lin style with a bit more rpb

NONONONO, I don't play the classic penhold block at all

Please read carefully

For backhand shots, I ONLY USE THE REVERSE PENHOLD BACKHAND

 

[Kaizoku]

I personally think traditional penhold is much easier to control in blocks... It just can't get as far out to the side (left for righties, right for lefties), as RPB can. The transition is much faster too. Since there technically is none.
However as metnioned RPB can reach out longer and add wrist and angle if needed.
Blocking well with RPB will take some time to master.
But I kind of understand what Boogar indicated. Say, If the ball comes too quick close to in front of your body (oposite side of your bat hand), and no time to step over, you should (imo, from personal experience), by reflex use traditional penhold to block. As transitioning into RPB would be too slow in most of those cases. You've probably experienced those points where you've been about to transition to RPB, but was just too slow and it hit edge or barely missed? I'm talking about those.
Even Xu Xin needs to use traditional penhold block from time to time

 

[Archosaurus]

You mentioned that once you expect to get attacked, you defend much better.

Well, here's a though:

Do you think better players get surprised if they get attacked? Isn't it a luxury that you have to work towards to NOT get attacked back, and it's very commonplace to have to deal with a strong attack?

 

[songdavid98]

I personally think traditional penhold is much easier to control in blocks... It just can't get as far out to the side (left for righties, right for lefties), as RPB can. The transition is much faster too. Since there technically is none.
However as metnioned RPB can reach out longer and add wrist and angle if needed.
Blocking well with RPB will take some time to master.
But I kind of understand what Boogar indicated. Say, If the ball comes too quick close to in front of your body (oposite side of your bat hand), and no time to step over, you should (imo, from personal experience), by reflex use traditional penhold to block. As transitioning into RPB would be too slow in most of those cases. You've probably experienced those points where you've been about to transition to RPB, but was just too slow and it hit edge or barely missed? I'm talking about those.
Even Xu Xin needs to use traditional penhold block from time to time

I think Xu Xin does the traditional block in matches for kicks and giggles. After all, he's a showman .

As for your comment that RPB might be too slow to transition, I'll tell you that I transition as fast as shakehand players, since I started out playing RPB. But I understand your point. TPB is kind of made for blocking.

You mentioned that once you expect to get attacked, you defend much better.

Well, here's a though:

Do you think better players get surprised if they get attacked? Isn't it a luxury that you have to work towards to NOT get attacked back, and it's very commonplace to have to deal with a strong attack?

I would assume that there aren't that many things that surprise better players.

What I was thinking was that my attacking mindset was probably making me more easily surprised when being attacked. Kind of like a "What on earth?" moment. It's like those moments where you smash a ball, and your opponent punches/smashes it back at you.

 

[Kaizoku]

I think Xu Xin does the traditional block in matches for kicks and giggles. After all, he's a showman .

As for your comment that RPB might be too slow to transition, I'll tell you that I transition as fast as shakehand players, since I started out playing RPB. But I understand your point. TPB is kind of made for blocking.

I would assume that there aren't that many things that surprise better players.

What I was thinking was that my attacking mindset was probably making me more easily surprised when being attacked. Kind of like a "What on earth?" moment. It's like those moments where you smash a ball, and your opponent punches/smashes it back at you.

You're thinking about re-directing punch-blocks? which kind of makes it smash'ish? or perhaps that they more or less predict where you'l shoot and smash it back?
I hate those too, especially when I'm out of position. lol.. I consider myself offensive- (attacker but like all round play)
But I really dislike, when I feel like I sent a really good and hard/fast top spin, and oponent just re-directs it to oposite side meanwhile I'm possibly a bit too far on the fh side. (when on bh side I'm usually rather quick to jump forward, so, that's actually a different case)
But, I think it's a matter of (with a decent percentage) predicting the possibility of it.
Depending on where you hit from, you should expect your oponent to get the ball back.
I think this is an ability gained through experience, but the most likely is probably that they re-direct it to where you are not (or the furthest from).
So then you should imediately after making the attacking stroke, rush to atempt a block or get ready for one incase he does so, on reflex.
You wouldn't be able to attack those balls anyway... so for that you would have to block somehow. and get ready for an attack on next if you can. This is also the reason the chinese most often don't go for full commitment shots, because if they are blocked it's almost impossible to get back. (which happends to even Xu Xin a fair ammount of times) They train to make good offensive strokes that don't require full commitment.

Anyhow this point, on 8:47, there is no way, he would have made that with RPB. (Unless he'd predict it obviously) But as this shows you can't predict everything.. But the reflex should be there..

 

[NextLevel]

I lose to people who can:
1. Handle my loops
2. Attack (with a lot power) before I do consistently

A player who can do either of these would probably be much more than a well rounded player.

I work around my "flaws". Against slower loops, I would either forehand counter or backhand punch. Otherwise, I try to prevent it from happening from the first place.

I do practice my blocks, but it doesn't seem to be helping.

The blocks that I'm bad at come from powerful third ball attacks that I don't expect, the opener, the shot where I have to switch from "attack mode" to "defense mode."
Let me explain.

When I practice blocking, I'm in some sort of "defense mode." When I'm in this mode, blocking isn't very hard. I can handle openers and other attacks decently.

However, in a match, I always start out in "attack mode." Because of the way I play, I'm perpetually in "attack mode." When I make a bad short push, the opponent would attack me and I would be forced into "defense mode." However, I'm terrible at this transition in mindset.

If I start out the point expecting to be attacked, I'm fine. In fact, it's becoming part of my game. (serve long to forehand, opponent loops, I counter down the line.)

Back to the mindset transition idea. When someone loops (without blazing speed) to me, I'll try to attack it: it's become second nature. I see these slower loops as opportunities to attack. I don't have to change my mindset.

This is what I meant by, "Against those my level, I don't think [my blocking] is good enough." If the attack comes at me fast enough to force me into "defense mode", my block in reaction to that shot isn't too consistent. I get that block in about 1/3 of the time, which I'm not proud of.
Expecting the attack is a huge factor, at least that's what I think.

It's not I'm missing every blocking attempt; I think that's what a majority was being mislead into thinking.
I'm simply aware (and jealous) of the fact that my opponents seem to react to this shot much better than I do. (now that I think about it, it's probably because I'm attack them all the time)

Meanwhile, I'll be working on my backhand today!

IMO, you are diagnosing the problem wrongly. The real issue is either the predictability of your attacks or the unpredictability of those of our opponents.

First of all, no one should be bringing back a powerful third ball attack. Otherwise, it just wasn't that powerful. The exceptions are when the defender backs off the table or when the attack hits the ball into the defender's paddle.

What you need to do is get better at reading your opponent. But in any case, this will not solve the problem. Powerful third ball attacks are powerful for a reason.

 

[songdavid98]

IMO, you are diagnosing the problem wrongly. The real issue is either the predictability of your attacks or the unpredictability of those of our opponents.

First of all, no one should be bringing back a powerful third ball attack. Otherwise, it just wasn't that powerful. The exceptions are when the defender backs off the table or when the attack hits the ball into the defender's paddle.

What you need to do is get better at reading your opponent. But in any case, this will not solve the problem. Powerful third ball attacks are powerful for a reason.

I guess I have to prevent attacks from being too powerful to defend. Probably with better service return and such. Would that be the diagnosis?

By the way, I usually block once and then back off the table.

 

[Kaizoku]

I guess I have to prevent attacks from being too powerful to defend. Probably with better service return and such. Would that be the diagnosis?

By the way, I usually block once and then back off the table.

Well that should be the atempt.. though it won't always be possible.
I tend to back off the table after one block in most cases too :v
I'm a decent lobber.

 

[thekleifheit13]

I guess I have to prevent attacks from being too powerful to defend. Probably with better service return and such. Would that be the diagnosis?

By the way, I usually block once and then back off the table.

You'll either have to return serves with better placement or you'll have to return serves with more power. Your video with NL shows that you have good power, so placement is probably where you stand to gain the most. As willing as you are to attack (and as good as you are at attacking!), using one block to buy you time to get away from the table and attack sounds like a good plan. Also, you have a good attitude man. It's refreshing to see a fella with a lot of talent willing to consider advice from people way below his level. We may not play that well, but fresh eyes and ideas may be helpful to you. Good luck!

 

[songdavid98]

You'll either have to return serves with better placement or you'll have to return serves with more power. Your video with NL shows that you have good power, so placement is probably where you stand to gain the most. As willing as you are to attack (and as good as you are at attacking!), using one block to buy you time to get away from the table and attack sounds like a good plan. Also, you have a good attitude man. It's refreshing to see a fella with a lot of talent willing to consider advice from people way below his level. We may not play that well, but fresh eyes and ideas may be helpful to you. Good luck!

The world isn't open minded enough.

Buying time to get into position to counter attack was my goal.

 

[NextLevel]

Samson Dubina has a give-me-your-best-shot drill that you might like. Someone serves to you and you pop the ball up and then try to bring the attack back. Maybe that is what you are looking for,

 

[songdavid98]

Samson Dubina has a give-me-your-best-shot drill that you might like. Someone serves to you and you pop the ball up and then try to bring the attack back. Maybe that is what you are looking for,

ooooooohhhhhhh, me gusta.

That's actually a nice idea. I can already see this play out in my head.

I would have to make a note to myself not to stand too close to the table when it happens though.

 

[NextLevel]

You'll either have to return serves with better placement or you'll have to return serves with more power. Your video with NL shows that you have good power, so placement is probably where you stand to gain the most. As willing as you are to attack (and as good as you are at attacking!), using one block to buy you time to get away from the table and attack sounds like a good plan. Also, you have a good attitude man. It's refreshing to see a fella with a lot of talent willing to consider advice from people way below his level. We may not play that well, but fresh eyes and ideas may be helpful to you. Good luck!

Not playing well is not the problem with lower rated players giving advice. Pretending they know what they don't know is. We have all done it, so we know it. But the danger is that when players pretend to know things that they do not and are not parroting better players, they end up saying things that become true because they are on the internet. I am okay with anyone saying anything as long as they disclose the experience that informs it.

 

[NextLevel]

ooooooohhhhhhh, me gusta.

That's actually a nice idea. I can already see this play out in my head.

I would have to make a note to myself not to stand too close to the table when it happens though.

Found the link and video.

http://www.samsondubina.com/videos/80-mph-forehand

 

[songdavid98]

hmm.. not really Liang Jishan's best shot (he looks bored as hell), but I get the picture.

I would probably try to do this with varied placement.

 

[thekleifheit13]

Not playing well is not the problem with lower rated players giving advice. Pretending they know what they don't know is. We have all done it, so we know it. But the danger is that when players pretend to know things that they do not and are not parroting better players, they end up saying things that become true because they are on the internet. I am okay with anyone saying anything as long as they disclose the experience that informs it.

Not playing well is the reason elitists don't listen to lower level guys. Knowing when the bull dookie is getting deep is when sensible people don't listen to lower level players, that's all I was pointing out about David. I know I'm not telling him anything he doesn't know, he's somewhere around 2000 +/- 100 IIRC. But when a lot of the game becomes second nature, certain things may not be so obvious since they're not a huge focus in practice. That's where those of us whose fundamentals are the main focus of training could point out something a higher level player may not see, as they're focused on improving finer points of the game. As an engineer (no longer in training, but full-fledged), I always try to provide some sort of background support to what I say. Whether or not it may be accepted as good enough proof, well, that goes back to the bull dookie comment

 

[Jaffar Lone]

In order to become a complete player you need to be able to block, lob, attack and also show efficiency in the short game... with the passage of time you need to develop versatility in your game otherwise you become an easy opponent (no disrespect intended).
That being said, i personally love the idea of heavy looping from both wings Attacking play is always more attractive.