Tibhar Evolution EL-S and FX-S

[AndySmith]

The ELS sucks in my Ebenholz, I noticed it over time that the spin is there but the speed is meh haha

It sounds like you have some special speed needs here my friend.

One of our better club players has recently switched to MX-P Max on both sides of a Primorac Carbon. He loves it, but I'm just waiting for him to say that he wants something faster.

 

[Airoc]

I'm just waiting for him to say that he wants something faster.

Even that could be done

But if there´s any use?

 

[Player87]

So what kind of blades are more suited for EL-S rubber?
Will Donic Waldner Offensive 2016 is good for ELS. It is 5 ply wood. This is thin and lightweight blade (5.5 mm, ~82 g) comes with limba-spruce-ayous-spruce-limba

 

[massa]

Fast, light and hard. ELS works great on Cornilleau Aero Off+

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

So what kind of blades are more suited for EL-S rubber?
Will Donic Waldner Offensive 2016 is good for ELS. It is 5 ply wood. This is thin and lightweight blade (5.5 mm, ~82 g) comes with limba-spruce-ayous-spruce-limba

I know people think this. But that is not really how blades and rubbers work. A good rubber will work well with any blade. A good blade will work well with any rubber.

A certain rubber may feel a little different on a different blade. But that is because the blade feels different. The rubber will not change. If the blade is harder you may have more trouble keeping the ball on the rubber longer to get more dwell time and spin. But that blade will do that with any rubber. A softer blade may make it easier to hold the ball on the rubber longer making it easier to spin the ball. And again, that is the blade, not the rubber. And with good technique, you can still hold the ball on the rubber longer even with a blade with a harder surface. It just takes more technique. Or, really, slightly different technique.

So the short answer to your question is:

EL-S will work with your blade!


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[NextLevel]

I know people think this. But that is not really how blades and rubbers work. A good rubber will work well with any blade. A good blade will work well with any rubber.

A certain rubber may feel a little different on a different blade. But that is because the blade feels different. The rubber will not change. If the blade is harder you may have more trouble keeping the ball on the rubber longer to get more dwell time and spin. But that blade will do that with any rubber. A softer blade may make it easier to hold the ball on the rubber longer making it easier to spin the ball. And again, that is the blade, not the rubber. And with good technique, you can still hold the ball on the rubber longer even with a blade with a harder surface. It just takes more technique. Or, really, slightly different technique.

So the short answer to your question is:

EL-S will work with your blade!


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Yes. The question is what kind of overall setup speed he is trying to achieve and without mentioning this, he is asking for what "works". I have never understood this - almost as if people think we can imagine how they want to play and what they can do without ever having seen them play.

 

[ajtatosmano2]

A bad glue job can seriously reduce the speed. I noticed that my slightly boosted H3 was so slow even on kill loops. I reglued it and became much more lively. I suppose that EL-S is also factory tuned, so it might work.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Yes. The question is what kind of overall setup speed he is trying to achieve and without mentioning this, he is asking for what "works". I have never understood this - almost as if people think we can imagine how they want to play and what they can do without ever having seen them play.

I actually think this is addressing bigger and more realistic perspective.

The question seemed to be whether a specific rubber would work with a specific blade and which blades that rubber would work with. The poster didn't even get to the issue of what would be right for him.

But that idea that certain blades only work with certain rubbers or vice versa seems like a belief that is prevalent, frequently proposed and seems to have no basis.

 

[Player87]

I know people think this. But that is not really how blades and rubbers work. A good rubber will work well with any blade. A good blade will work well with any rubber.

A certain rubber may feel a little different on a different blade. But that is because the blade feels different. The rubber will not change. If the blade is harder you may have more trouble keeping the ball on the rubber longer to get more dwell time and spin. But that blade will do that with any rubber. A softer blade may make it easier to hold the ball on the rubber longer making it easier to spin the ball. And again, that is the blade, not the rubber. And with good technique, you can still hold the ball on the rubber longer even with a blade with a harder surface. It just takes more technique. Or, really, slightly different technique.

So the short answer to your question is:

EL-S will work with your blade!


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There is what is called physics. Like gravity you can't go from it. The same here. There are factors like hardness of Blade, top ply of the blade, sponge, elasticity and so on. For instance you can't match Hurricane 3 with soft hinoki blade (there some exceptions but in general rule is like that). Or put super soft rubber on Hard blade TB ALC.

There were some comments. People were disapponted with EL-S on one blade and changed their opinion once tried on another blade? The question why?

If answer is not coming to your mind then please nevermind...

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

There is what is called physics. Like gravity you can't go from it. The same here. There are factors like hardness of Blade, top ply of the blade, sponge, elasticity and so on. For instance you can't match Hurricane 3 with soft hinoki blade (there some exceptions but in general rule is like that). Or put super soft rubber on Hard blade TB ALC.

There were some comments. People were disapponted with EL-S on one blade and changed their opinion once tried on another blade? The question why?

If answer is not coming to your mind then please nevermind...

Well, if you want to think how you want to think, I am not going to bother changing your mind. But it does not really work how you think. What you feel and your preferences are based on what you are used to. If someone else is used to something different, they will feel something totally different from the same setup.

And BTW, I've used H3 on a Hinoki blade and it seemed to work just fine.

My current blade is a pretty soft blade and I've used some very hard rubbers on it and they all worked fine. And I've used soft rubbers on a few hard blades and that worked as well.


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[d3ss3n]

I will be using an EL-S on a Yasaka Extra 3D and i mm just waiting for my tennis elbow to heal

 

[Suga D]

...For instance you can't match Hurricane 3 with soft hinoki blade (there some exceptions but in general rule is like that).

Sorry, but i can't agree on this.

And BTW, I've used H3 on a Hinoki blade and it seemed to work just fine.

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Thanks, Carl.
[Emoji2]

Dear TTD community. I actually didn't want to be a show off, but this I must share with you.
Today a dream came true.

Finally I found this lovely Nittaku Killton
(i've heard it's pronounced: Shellton) 3ply hinoki all wood blade and it just plays like a dream. So much dwell time, almost like the ball gets magnetized by the blade... it almost feels like catching the ball and throwing it back after a while.

I used to have the same blade 30 years ago.

Unfortunately today I just could play 2 hours with it. Just can't wait to continue playing.
[Emoji12]

I'm pretty tempted to make this my main instrument.

View attachment 10979
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It's got a couple of small Dings but they don't bother me.
Those are just a few battle scars.
[Emoji3]

View attachment 10982
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I've never thought anything could come close to my NSO or my americanhinoki but now they have a new rival.
[Emoji2]
It's a looper's paradise. A spinner's heaven.

View attachment 10986

I hope I'll be able to catch some sleep 2nite...
[Emoji2]

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Photos

I love those photos of that beautiful old blade.


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[NextLevel]

There is what is called physics. Like gravity you can't go from it. The same here. There are factors like hardness of Blade, top ply of the blade, sponge, elasticity and so on. For instance you can't match Hurricane 3 with soft hinoki blade (there some exceptions but in general rule is like that). Or put super soft rubber on Hard blade TB ALC.

There were some comments. People were disapponted with EL-S on one blade and changed their opinion once tried on another blade? The question why?

If answer is not coming to your mind then please nevermind...

Whenever I give my blade to my clubmates who are using Timo Boll Spirit or Timo Boll ZLC etc., they say my blade has too much feeling and is too slow. We are all using Tenergy (I switched from 05 to 80 recently), so who is right? I find their blades too fast. If they had my blade and changed to their blades and I had their blades and changed to mine, does Tenergy now go with TBS and not with Yasaka Extra?

 

[Player87]

This is endless discussion. Useless to continue further. You may use whatever you want even pips on viscaria like the someone said "they all worked fine".

Every rubber plays on every blade - yes but HOW? Don't you think about it? Will it play like full potential? As per your comments obvious answer is YES just need proper technique. Good luck then in making weird techniques with weird setups. - that actually sound like that.

 

[NextLevel]

This is endless discussion. Useless to continue further. You may use whatever you want even pips on viscaria like the someone said "they all worked fine".

Every rubber plays on every blade - yes but HOW? Don't you think about it? Will it play like full potential? As per your comments obvious answer is YES just need proper technique. Good luck then in making weird techniques with weird setups. - that actually sound like that.

OK, now, maybe you don't understand what we are trying to say. The first question is what are you trying to do. IF we know what you are trying to do, then you can answer whether how a rubber plays on a blade might be what you like or not. But if you don't know or share what you are trying to do, the correct answer is that any good rubber will play with any good blade. Only you can tell whether it will suit you based on what your preferences are.


If I say, I want setup with high catapult from rubber from mid distance, then I may say that unless I have fast blade or big swings, EL-S is too slow. But if I like heavy spin and more focus on control and linear response, I might like EL-S a lot because I find for how I think, Tenergy is too bouncy. But in the end, these are all small things and have more to do with feeling and there are other things that are important like short game and block and push. They won't add more than 100 pts at most to my rating because both EL-S and Tenergy 80 are offensive rubbers with high spin - they are more similar than they are different. But in the end, I have to know how I want to play. IF you know how you want to play, forum is the last place one will ask serious questions about rubber for playing like "full potential".

 

[darnner123]

uh quick question. i dont really get it when people say catapult or dwell time or stiffness. sometimes people say ohh the top ply is stiff but it has tons of dwell time which djkskabska confuses me so much. it would be great if somone could explain this to me please.
oh and gears too

 

[Player87]

OK, now, maybe you don't understand what we are trying to say. The first question is what are you trying to do. IF we know what you are trying to do, then you can answer whether how a rubber plays on a blade might be what you like or not. But if you don't know or share what you are trying to do, the correct answer is that any good rubber will play with any good blade. Only you can tell whether it will suit you based on what your preferences are.


If I say, I want setup with high catapult from rubber from mid distance, then I may say that unless I have fast blade or big swings, EL-S is too slow. But if I like heavy spin and more focus on control and linear response, I might like EL-S a lot because I find for how I think, Tenergy is too bouncy. But in the end, these are all small things and have more to do with feeling and there are other things that are important like short game and block and push. They won't add more than 100 pts at most to my rating because both EL-S and Tenergy 80 are offensive rubbers with high spin - they are more similar than they are different. But in the end, I have to know how I want to play. IF you know how you want to play, forum is the last place one will ask serious questions about rubber for playing like "full potential".

Actually my question was not that deep. It was more general question. So we just misunderstood each other. Since there were several posts before saying that EL-S performance was bad on certain blades therefore I was curious what kind of blades should suit this rubber better. That is it.

Re you clarification. I am playing more offensive style with both wings loop but mostly using FH. BH is more for flicks, slow top spins while receiving serves. I used to play with Maze Off + Baracuda FH 2.0 + Maxxx P BH 2.0. I didn't like head heaviness of this setup as well as it is requires quite good technique for every stroke and it is not forgiving at all. So I decided to downgrade to all wood blade with better balance and take coach to train my FH and BH loops as well as footwork.

My biggest concern was weight balance. Can't handle head heavy setups with my wrist. I made my search and decided to give a try to Donic Waldner Offensive 2016. 5 ply blade with limba top ply. I got my blade with around 83 gr weight I glued the same rubbers. Overall setup feels a bit less head heavy (I would want a bit more lighter in terms of weight balance). In terms of playing it felt more controlable with good feel after carbon blade. I still can generate deadly FH loops with good amount of spin however from BH I feel like I need more grip and bounciness than Maxxx P. On FH just a bit more bounciness as well and notch softer and lighter. Baracuda's grip is good enough.

I still consider Nexy Lissom, Tibhar (which is also Nexy) Kim Jung Hoon and Stiga Emerald VPS. Never tried but as per reviews all have good weight balance and suits for looping more than for smashing. Emerald probably fastest and heaviest in general than 2 others. Still reading some comments to understand which one to try next and stick in the future.

That pretty much it.

 

[NextLevel]

Actually my question was not that deep. It was more general question. So we just misunderstood each other. Since there were several posts before saying that EL-S performance was bad on certain blades therefore I was curious what kind of blades should suit this rubber better. That is it.

Re you clarification. I am playing more offensive style with both wings loop but mostly using FH. BH is more for flicks, slow top spins while receiving serves. I used to play with Maze Off + Baracuda FH 2.0 + Maxxx P BH 2.0. I didn't like head heaviness of this setup as well as it is requires quite good technique for every stroke and it is not forgiving at all. So I decided to downgrade to all wood blade with better balance and take coach to train my FH and BH loops as well as footwork.

My biggest concern was weight balance. Can't handle head heavy setups with my wrist. I made my search and decided to give a try to Donic Waldner Offensive 2016. 5 ply blade with limba top ply. I got my blade with around 83 gr weight I glued the same rubbers. Overall setup feels a bit less head heavy (I would want a bit more lighter in terms of weight balance). In terms of playing it felt more controlable with good feel after carbon blade. I still can generate deadly FH loops with good amount of spin however from BH I feel like I need more grip and bounciness than Maxxx P. On FH just a bit more bounciness as well and notch softer and lighter. Baracuda's grip is good enough.

I still consider Nexy Lissom, Tibhar (which is also Nexy) Kim Jung Hoon and Stiga Emerald VPS. Never tried but as per reviews all have good weight balance and suits for looping more than for smashing. Emerald probably fastest and heaviest in general than 2 others. Still reading some comments to understand which one to try next and stick in the future.

That pretty much it.

Understood. The main difference between me and you is that because of my internet experience, I don't trust the reviews of people I have never met or seen play. I have seen people who cannot loop properly write serious blade reviews. If you usually take recommendations from people who play two levels lower than you or whose technique you cannot trust, then sure, feel free to ask whether EL-S matches a blade. I know some of the people who make these statements and sometimes, you will laugh if you see them play. Other times, you have to know what they like or do not like and how they play in order to understand whether what they are saying applies to you or not.

EL-S is a bit like Baracuda. That is where I would place it.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

EL-S is a bit like Baracuda. That is where I would place it.

Okay. Good info that is now in the ballpark and helpful.

Question. I know MX-P is crazy heavy. I think MX-S was kind of heavy too. Since Player87 is looking for something lighter than Baracuda, anyone know how heavy EL-S is? Is it heavy like MX-P and MX-S or is it not so heavy?


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