Transition from a more traditional to a shallow grip

[ttmonster]

I don't want to move away from the table so soon, but its happening regardless. I am not sure why, I am keep telling myself not too.

Is it because of my lack of fitness and confidence to keep on the table , is it because I am slow on my footwork and I want to give my self time, or is it because my partner is penhold and tend to place the ball in uncomfortable positions ?
I am yet to figure out ....

from back there my strategy is to execute strong loops on either side, sometimes I am too aggressive for my own good and tend to have less margin for error. Sometimes, I am out of position and I have no options other than doing bigger strokes than I am comfortable with, sometimes the ball is too wide to my backhand ...

I will analyze further and try to recall what was going through my mind at that instant when I made those decisions. May be that is the key to unlocking the mystery ...

Maybe later I get more complete detailed with you I watched ur 2nd match...

I keep it simple and ask you a few questions for you to think through about ONE thing.

You play away from table very soon in rally. Why you do this? What is good and bad in general given your skills and strokes... what is your point winning strategy from there... why did you miss the shots you did...

In general you have many of the same shot selection preferences but what is different about us?

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[Der_Echte]

Those are some things to think about... I could tell you what I think, but it doesn't really matter, YOU must discover for yourself why you do what in TT and what will work given what you got.

In general, I think you like having a LOT of time to read the ball and that is why you go back, but there are other factors in play you should consider and decide.

 

[ttmonster]

Thanks Der_Echte !!!! I think you have hit the nail on the head, I do like a lot of time to read the ball , and I like putting a ton of spin on the ball, so my natural instinct is to let the ball fall below its top height and then rip the spin ... I guess I should be trying to do it earlier and back my instincts a little more ...

 

[Der_Echte]

I think the spin you put on ball is not heavy enough... your opponent returns it often, and you miss a lot. Other stuff is in play I think.

Consider for a spell and tell me how you win points from the distance you play... WHY you win them and how you lot them... it will tell you a story about yourself for you to consider. Same applies to my game, I need to improve too.

 

[ttmonster]

I will think through this when I am playing next week and when I am watching the videos this week. I hope it will help me get to the answers , I will let you know what I can come up with. Thanks a lot for helping me think about these things .. really appreciate you taking the time to watch ...

I think the spin you put on ball is not heavy enough... your opponent returns it often, and you miss a lot. Other stuff is in play I think.

Consider for a spell and tell me how you win points from the distance you play... WHY you win them and how you lot them... it will tell you a story about yourself for you to consider. Same applies to my game, I need to improve too.

 

[Der_Echte]

To confound you further, take a look at all the Kim Jung Hoon vids I gisted for the forum and look at what he considers to be important fundamentals... It will give you another perspective.

Regardless of what you do, he stresses hitting inside the strike zone, often, that is waiting for the ball some more, but sometimes that means moving forward more to make strike zone effectiveness given the ball.

 

[ttmonster]

Sure I will , I did take notes from it a while back and put it on my sticky but then forgot about them after a while ...

To confound you further, take a look at all the Kim Jung Hoon vids I gisted for the forum and look at what he considers to be important fundamentals... It will give you another perspective.

Regardless of what you do, he stresses hitting inside the strike zone, often, that is waiting for the ball some more, but sometimes that means moving forward more to make strike zone effectiveness given the ball.

 

[Der_Echte]

KJH can detect root cause of stuff amatures do in around 2.1 seconds.

All his vids are worth examning where he is teaching amature Korean players, very applicable to us amatures.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Der is making a good point. I watched about 1 min of one vid and I saw several shots where you are taking the ball while it is dropping and reaching forward out of your power zone to try to take the ball. I also saw you miss a bunch because you are too far back to take the ball that is hit to you and you are taking the ball well after it drops but, because of the knees you are not bending down to that dropping ball. And you can't bend further to let it keep coming to you and take it even lower. In a short amount of video, I saw several balls you made and several that you missed where you were taking the ball a bit forward and a bit too low for where your feet were set to take the ball.

 

[ttmonster]

Thank you Carl !! I will be conscious about taking the ball early and not getting back from the table , so that I can take the ball before dropping and within my power zone !

Der is making a good point. I watched about 1 min of one vid and I saw several shots where you are taking the ball while it is dropping and reaching forward out of your power zone to try to take the ball. I also saw you miss a bunch because you are too far back to take the ball that is hit to you and you are taking the ball well after it drops but, because of the knees you are not bending down to that dropping ball. And you can't bend further to let it keep coming to you and take it even lower. In a short amount of video, I saw several balls you made and several that you missed where you were taking the ball a bit forward and a bit too low for where your feet were set to take the ball.

 

[Der_Echte]

I saw him bend his knees and get down a lot in the mtch, but in general, when playing the depth he plays, he is too far back given the ball and it is a fail often. I believe he is capable even at his current weight of staying low enough often enough. I do not think his problems are his knees bending. I am trying to get him to consider factors that lead to his problems and some ways to address it, without me outright telling him what i think. It will hold more profit for him to go through the process and get the process right... that will help him apply principles.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Thank you Carl !! I will be conscious about taking the ball early and not getting back from the table , so that I can take the ball before dropping and within my power zone !

I'll tell you what though, when you spin the ball, taking it while it is dropping, you really get some nice spin.

Another thing I notice, and I think a lot of TT players our level do this, you sort of rush the toss on the serve motion. You bounce the ball. You reach to be set for tossing and then you toss almost as soon as your left arm has reached. Almost before you've reached. If you look at someone like Ma Long, he gets set in that position before he tosses the ball, he stays there, he looks at the ball, he looks at the opponent, then he choses when he will toss the ball. It looks like your body is choosing to toss the ball before your head has caught up to your body.

 

[ttmonster]

Great catch ! I saw this too Carl. I guess I have acquired this new bad habit because of the nice flooring in this club. In my earlier club the flooring was bad and I could not bounce the ball. So I had the routine of bouncing it on the table and then waiting with it in my hand, I will go back to my old routine . I hope it will help me to reduce some of my service errors and also control the speed on the my serve, sometimes I am serving too fast for my own good !

I'll tell you what though, when you spin the ball, taking it while it is dropping, you really get some nice spin.

Another thing I notice, and I think a lot of TT players our level do this, you sort of rush the toss on the serve motion. You bounce the ball. You reach to be set for tossing and then you toss almost as soon as your left arm has reached. Almost before you've reached. If you look at someone like Ma Long, he gets set in that position before he tosses the ball, he stays there, he looks at the ball, he looks at the opponent, then he choses when he will toss the ball. It looks like your body is choosing to toss the ball before your head has caught up to your body.

 

[ttmonster]

One thing I noticed is that I am doing this more often when I am opening with my backhand , I guess because the weight transfer is not happening correctly and I am trying to generate the spin with by back going up rather than with my legs and wrist and timing. Because of this I am falling back as a reaction to handle this imbalance, and having to execute loops from out of position. Am I thinking in the right path @Der_Echte ?

I saw him bend his knees and get down a lot in the mtch, but in general, when playing the depth he plays, he is too far back given the ball and it is a fail often. I believe he is capable even at his current weight of staying low enough often enough. I do not think his problems are his knees bending. I am trying to get him to consider factors that lead to his problems and some ways to address it, without me outright telling him what i think. It will hold more profit for him to go through the process and get the process right... that will help him apply principles.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I saw him bend his knees and get down a lot in the mtch, but in general, when playing the depth he plays, he is too far back given the ball and it is a fail often. I believe he is capable even at his current weight of staying low enough often enough. I do not think his problems are his knees bending. I am trying to get him to consider factors that lead to his problems and some ways to address it, without me outright telling him what i think. It will hold more profit for him to go through the process and get the process right... that will help him apply principles.

Der, I think you may have misunderstood what I said.

On a lot of those balls where he is reaching forward out of his power zone to take the ball as it is already dropping, for him to not reach forward and not move his feet, he would have to get down almost to the ground to take the ball very low. I wasn't saying it was a good option. But based on where he was standing and how he is often reaching forward, to wait for the ball to come to him, he would have to be much lower than very low.

 

[Der_Echte]

For your particular situation of making a BH topspin opening vs underspin... in general, if the weight balance (think - you could be leaning too far back a bit) is too far back, of course when you explode up you will naturally move back... even Der_Echte doesn't get this right all the time.

I do not think this is the largest of your overall struggles though, but it is ONE point on several that is hurting your performance.

 

[Der_Echte]

Carl touched on the serve, that is killing you as well as receive. However, we were more focused on what is killing you once you enter a rally. Think where you make your money and how you make your money winning points... either with a winner, forced error, or get an error unforced...

 

[ttmonster]

Most of the time I win points with a winner , not with a forced error or getting an error unforced. However, I did not get the part with the receive . Are you talking about the unnecessary bending and unbending ? I am trying to rectify that and I did find my receive was my better if I don't go so down before the serve and then suddenly come up , helped a lot with me saving my leg power as well and taking the ball earlier on the receive. BTW, did you notice any issues with the backhand opening , footwork or timing, you did mention to me that I was taking the ball too late for the opening when you looked at my earlier videos ? Was I able to atleast partially rectify that mistake ?

Carl touched on the serve, that is killing you as well as receive. However, we were more focused on what is killing you once you enter a rally. Think where you make your money and how you make your money winning points... either with a winner, forced error, or get an error unforced...

 

[Der_Echte]

Whatever you decide why you go back or whatever depth you are comfortable playing at... you still have to read the ball, be in position, and select and execute the shot you are trying to tactically employ... if you are too far back given the ball, it will fail most of the time. You seem to make similar good decisions on what kind of shot to try, but are often out of position for it to land or if it lands to be a quality shot.

There can be several reasons for this. Name 4 of them for me to engage your thought process.

 

[Der_Echte]

I am often also trying to win the point with a winner, or with so much spin I get a forced error. Sometimes, I am simply playing to stay alive and win the point by hook or crook.... winning ugly points is still one point each time in your favor.