Victas Koki Niwa ZC quality control problem?

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Recently bought one from TT11, however the blade surface is warped... good thing is TT11 said they'll refund me.
Bought another one from Ninishohi.com, also warped... contacting them to get things resolved.

Anyone else bought this blade and noticed this problem? Two blades from two different distributors having the same problem is a bit weird.

Here's a video demonstrating the problem.
 
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I have just checked my ZC and noticed I have the same problem! although less noticeable than your video example. Very strange! I didn't notice this when I was gluing it but now I won't be able to un see it 😬 I compared it to my koki niwa wood and carbon and neither of those have it
 
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Recently bought one from TT11, however the blade surface is warped... good thing is TT11 said they'll refund me.
Bought another one from Ninishohi.com, also warped... contacting them to get things resolved.

Anyone else bought this blade and noticed this problem? Two blades from two different distributors having the same problem is a bit weird.

Here's a video demonstrating the problem.
wow that's actually quite terrible for such a high end brand!

I've bought so many blades from Sanwei and Yinhe and Stuor, I never even bothered to check if it's flat. But I should start doing that.
 
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I have just checked my ZC and noticed I have the same problem! although less noticeable than your video example. Very strange! I didn't notice this when I was gluing it but now I won't be able to un see it 😬 I compared it to my koki niwa wood and carbon and neither of those have it

I noticed it when I was just about ready to glue it. At first I thought it was my table, then I checked it again on a marble counter top, then a glass table top, then the TT table. Every time it showed the blade not being flat. I'm a bit sad that Victas's quality has dropped so much.
 
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Recently bought one from TT11, however the blade surface is warped... good thing is TT11 said they'll refund me.
Bought another one from Ninishohi.com, also warped... contacting them to get things resolved.

Anyone else bought this blade and noticed this problem? Two blades from two different distributors having the same problem is a bit weird.

Here's a video demonstrating the problem.

I was actually looking forward to trying one of the ZC blades. I will save my money until they fix the problem.

Thanks for letting us know
 
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I noticed it when I was just about ready to glue it. At first I thought it was my table, then I checked it again on a marble counter top, then a glass table top, then the TT table. Every time it showed the blade not being flat. I'm a bit sad that Victas's quality has dropped so much.
Not just Victas, but with Koki Niwa's name on it...this is a huge screw up by them

So this is not a regular check you do with all blades you get? You just notice the warping by total accident?

I thought you were only interested in inner fibre blades, why the sudden interest in this one?
 
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ve bought so many blades from Sanwei and Yinhe and Stuor, I never even bothered to check if it's flat. But I should start doing that.
Yes you should and you might be surprised just how many blades will at least be bent if not warped and twisted.
I am also surprised to see this complete lack of quality control from this top japanese brand, especially considering this "sales dribble" :
KOKI NIWA ZC is the new Off blade benchmark and our masterpiece “Made in Japan”!
 
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Did you try it? Seems good enough to play, but does it act weird?
Not just Victas, but with Koki Niwa's name on it...this is a huge screw up by them

So this is not a regular check you do with all blades you get? You just notice the warping by total accident?

I thought you were only interested in inner fibre blades, why the sudden interest in this one?
I tried it, it has an interesting feel compared to the other outer fiber blades since the surface layer is hinoki. Even though it is an outer fiber blade, it isn’t that fast, and even has a lower frequency compared to my recent inner fiber blade purchases, such as Tezzo Warrior and So-Ten. I wanted to try it mostly due to Koki Niwa is an interesting player and my coach said it might be interesting to try.

I kind of test most of my blades for flatness during the gluing process, since I glue them mostly on a known flat surface. Never noticed any that had a problem until this time though. I’ll be making sure to test all my future blades for sure.
 
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Mmmm - yeah, blade twist is a bugger. There's a lot of possible causes for that - it could be anything from misaligned grain in the core, to uneven gluing or drying, to movement in the wood after manufacture due to changes in humidity.

Only thing you can really do with a blade like that is place it in an environment where the humidity is extremely stable, then leave it there for a month or two.

If you're lucky, the twist is simply due to movement, and can correct itself once the water content of the timber stabilizes (assuming that is that the blade isn't fully sealed).

If the blade straightens up after a couple of months, then you're in luck. Quickly whack a coat of sealant over the entire blade (preferably without taking it outdoors), and it should probably stay straight going forwards.

If it stays twisted however after a couple of months (or if the blade is already fully sealed), there's not much you can do.

Removing the sealant and allowing the moisture content to stabilize *might* straighten it up (about a 5-10 % chance it might work) but you'll more likely damage the blade further in the process - frankly it's not worth the effort. Twist is just one of those faults that basically cannot be repaired.
 
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Mmmm - yeah, blade twist is a bugger. There's a lot of possible causes for that - it could be anything from misaligned grain in the core, to uneven gluing or drying, to movement in the wood after manufacture due to changes in humidity.

Only thing you can really do with a blade like that is place it in an environment where the humidity is extremely stable, then leave it there for a month or two.

If you're lucky, the twist is simply due to movement, and can correct itself once the water content of the timber stabilizes (assuming that is that the blade isn't fully sealed).

If the blade straightens up after a couple of months, then you're in luck. Quickly whack a coat of sealant over the entire blade (preferably without taking it outdoors), and it should probably stay straight going forwards.

If it stays twisted however after a couple of months (or if the blade is already fully sealed), there's not much you can do.

Removing the sealant and allowing the moisture content to stabilize *might* straighten it up (about a 5-10 % chance it might work) but you'll more likely damage the blade further in the process - frankly it's not worth the effort. Twist is just one of those faults that basically cannot be repaired.
I often wondered about the possible benefits (or not) of the now widely used practise of heatshrinking the blades into a plastic. I have been doubting the benefits of this practice ever since I got a Sanwei blade that had better use as a spoon than a TT-blade.
 
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I often wondered about the possible benefits (or not) of the now widely used practise of heatshrinking the blades into a plastic. I have been doubting the benefits of this practice ever since I got a Sanwei blade that had better use as a spoon than a TT-blade.
Wow! Yeah, that wouldn't be the shrink-wrapping. Shrink wrapping shouldn't put that much stress on a blade normally. That being said, shrink-wrapping requires application of heat, and if badly done it might cause one side if the bade to dry out, which could conceivably cause the cupping you describe... Though really you'd have to leave the blade in the machine for ages to do that .

More typically, cupping (in my experience) is usually caused by movement, though it can also be caused by a bad glue-up, imbalanced panel composition, uneven/insufficient drying or hugely uneven density in one of the blade ply layers (usually the core).
 
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Wow! Yeah, that wouldn't be the shrink-wrapping. Shrink wrapping shouldn't put that much stress on a blade normally. That being said, shrink-wrapping requires application of heat, and if badly done it might cause one side if the bade to dry out, which could conceivably cause the cupping you describe... Though really you'd have to leave the blade in the machine for ages to do that .

More typically, cupping (in my experience) is usually caused by movement, though it can also be caused by a bad glue-up, imbalanced panel composition, uneven/insufficient drying or hugely uneven density in one of the blade ply layers (usually the core).
maybe if the blade is completely cured (dried) there might be no problems with shrink wrapping. Any moisture still in the wood when heat is applied during the shrinking of the plastic and also afterwards during storage and posting might not have a positive effect on the blade.

Never mind, all the plastic bags have already been forced out of the supermarkets here and soon the Greenies will prohibit the use of plastic in any wrapping and this will end heatshrink wrapping of blades as well. 😂
Just be careful when you carry home a wet piece of fish wrapped in a paper bag.
 
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maybe if the blade is completely cured (dried) there might be no problems with shrink wrapping. Any moisture still in the wood when heat is applied during the shrinking of the plastic and also afterwards during storage and posting might not have a positive effect on the blade.

Never mind, all the plastic bags have already been forced out of the supermarkets here and soon the Greenies will prohibit the use of plastic in any wrapping and this will end heatshrink wrapping of blades as well. 😂
Just be careful when you carry home a wet piece of fish wrapped in a paper bag.
Actually (putting on his wood-geek hat), there's always a residual amount of moisture present in dried wood, which typically varies anywhere from 8 to 15 percent or more by weight, depending on your location on the planet and its climate.

It's only relevant because the playing properties of virtually every timber species will vary widely, depending on the amount of residual moisture currently remaining in it.

I mention this because a lot of people have reported doing some really weird stuff, like putting their blades in a hot oven to try and dry it out more and thereby make it lighter.

Not only is this terrible for the blade glue (and the wood), but it's also a waste of time and energy. As the wood cools, it's gonna suck some moisture back out of the air into itself, and gain weight again. It's also going to permanently change the consistency of the natural timber oils in the wood.

To keep that residual moisture out you'd have to seal it while it was still hot (a very dumb idea). Plus even if this worked, you'd still permanently alter the consistency of the wood in the process, and turn the wood in the core of your blade into something more closely resembling chalk than timber.

Anyhoo - long story short, it's worth remembering the timber in your blade *always* has some residual moisture in it, and as a player, you really want to keep it there, and keep the amount of moisture changes relatively stable.

It's not the presence of water in your blade that's the problem, the problem is when its absorbing more or less moisture than it should, and the moisture is being exchanged unevenly throughout the blade.

That's when one/some parts of the blade will swell or contract more than the rest of it, and you get problems with warp, cupping, twist, bowing delamination, creepage or kink developing in the wood.

(PS: ...no, not that sort of kink. The other, far more boring type 🤣 ..though on reflection, kink in a blade would really be due to grain issues rather than movement.)
 
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