Video Footage Safe Thread

[OvrChkn]

First and foremost, thanks for posting. It's great to see and hear from someone who is enthusiastic about table tennis. It's nice that you got to this level without coaching, but the lack of coaching also shows.

You are essentially what I would consider a good adult learner with obvious technical deficiencies. By good, I mean that you understand what to do and what you are trying to do, and in general, you are trying to hit a decent topspin ball. By adult learner with obvious technical deficiencies, I mean that you are using your understanding of how to hit the ball to hit it better but the actual stroke has things that would make it not work optimally at the highest level, but that said, there are some great players who actually have strokes like this, they just started much earlier and read the ball much better than you or I ever will.

You are at a point where I could give too much advice so I will start with some low hanging fruit which I think will improve your general skill level. IF you want to improve your practical match results much more, work on increasing the spin you bring to the ball. The best way I know of to do this is to work on your serves, especially your floor serves and bed serves. The whip action from trained use of the forearm and wrist translates to many strokes. Good luck.

Thanks for the comment! I will grab my Swifter and try this out! I had a feeling that I was making too much contact vs spin on my serves.

 

[NextLevel]

Thanks for the comment! I will grab my Swifter and try this out! I had a feeling that I was making too much contact vs spin on my serves.

This is a related video that you might find helpful, as it isn't always clear whether one video is communicating the details you need to get to - but if you get to spin that comes back towards you, it will be a combination of good whip mechanics and finding the right contact point on the ball.

 

[OvrChkn]

This is a related video that you might find helpful, as it isn't always clear whether one video is communicating the details you need to get to - but if you get to spin that comes back towards you, it will be a combination of good whip mechanics and finding the right contact point on the ball.

Thank you for this! From memory, I found it easier to get the whip motion on my BH, but not so much on my FH.

 

[NextLevel]

Thank you for this! From memory, I found it easier to get the whip motion on my BH, but not so much on my FH.

So your backhand clearly has it, the forehand is more subtle. That said, your strokes (including your backhand) are a bit suboptimal partly due to elbow positioning being too close to your body, but also do to use of the lower body to optimally throw the whip. All that said, as adult learners, without real time coaching and patience, change is incredibly hard ( it is hard with these but incredibly hard without).

Regardless, serving better teaches mechanics that will help all strokes. You learn to whip the fingers and wrist, and then you learn to trigger that whipping with optimal use of the body. and then you can do things in various degrees of contact depth on your racket. But even if your technique doesn't look perfect, ball quality doesn't lie. And serving has obvious ball quality feedback. That is why I think you should start there. If you can get good floor serves and bed serves, then you know how to generate heavy spin, which will help you beat players who can't get or control that level of spin fairly easily. The next step will be getting enough speed and power to beat the players who can. But again, everything step by step, jack of all trades, master of none.

 

[OvrChkn]

So your backhand clearly has it, the forehand is more subtle. That said, your strokes (including your backhand) are a bit suboptimal partly due to elbow positioning being too close to your body, but also do to use of the lower body to optimally throw the whip. All that said, as adult learners, without real time coaching and patience, change is incredibly hard ( it is hard with these but incredibly hard without).

Regardless, serving better teaches mechanics that will help all strokes. You learn to whip the fingers and wrist, and then you learn to trigger that whipping with optimal use of the body. and then you can do things in various degrees of contact depth on your racket. But even if your technique doesn't look perfect, ball quality doesn't lie. And serving has obvious ball quality feedback. That is why I think you should start there. If you can get good floor serves and bed serves, then you know how to generate heavy spin, which will help you beat players who can't get or control that level of spin fairly easily. The next step will be getting enough speed and power to beat the players who can. But again, everything step by step, jack of all trades, master of none.

That makes sense. I'll get to training then. Thanks for your help!

 

[JeffM]

It's been a while since I last posted in this thread.
In the 2 videos below, I focused on serve variation and to control with short serves, backhand open up, and just gameplay in general.

Thank you in advance for your most valued feedback.

Cheers.

 

[Haito]

It's been a while since I last posted in this thread.
In the 2 videos below, I focused on serve variation and to control with short serves, backhand open up, and just gameplay in general.

Thank you in advance for your most valued feedback.

Cheers.

It might be beneficial if you write, which of the two players are you.

 

[JeffM]

It might be beneficial if you write, which of the two players are you.

Sorry you are right xD
I thought most ppl would know me by now.
I am the younger one with glasses.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Sorry you are right xD
I thought most ppl would know me by now.
I am the younger one with glasses.

I do think pretty much everyone who can give you feedback on the footage knows who you are.

I would actually be surprised if Kuba didn't know as well.

 

[JeffM]

Got 1 more video to share here..
5th session in a week.
I think it is as good as it gets for my playing.
I feel the backhands are landing which I am happy about, but I am sacrificing a bit on my fh.
This is against my friend, who has been coaching kids for 4 hours prior to the match.

 

[Lula]

It's been a while since I last posted in this thread.
In the 2 videos below, I focused on serve variation and to control with short serves, backhand open up, and just gameplay in general.

Thank you in advance for your most valued feedback.

Cheers.

Watched some minutes.

You seem to have nice backspin on the serve! good. Maybe try this:
- a little longer serve, to short serve is easy. Want him to break his racket.
- Hit the ball further down to make it lower
- Try to learn how to make no spin aswell. The backspin serve will then become much better
- Need to know why you are doing serves. If you do backspin the opponent will often push short or long, and if you have good backspin the ball will move away from his rubber so hard to play short. Soo, need to be much more ready top open up after the backspin. And maybe consider if this is the ball you want? Try to serve and return so you come to your strenghts

- Returning serves: need to learn how to make sideunder and sidetop so you can read the spin. Sideunder: angle so hit under the ball or go down, the ball will stop a bit. Sidetop: angle so hit only on the side or go up, the ball will jump. I think you should try to flip if you read sidetop. Now you try to go on the side, very difficult if good sidetop.
- Forehand and backhand: need to try to get the body in the stroke, come down a bit in the legs and try to bounce a little when playing backhand and move the body while playing forehand. Try practicing to have the arm in front of you and have it still so you are forced to move the body, then turn the torso so you can see your left shoulder when looking at the ball and then turn back with the torso. After you have learned to rotate the torso you can use free up the arm.

Good luck

 

[JeffM]

Watched some minutes.

You seem to have nice backspin on the serve! good. Maybe try this:
- a little longer serve, to short serve is easy. Want him to break his racket.
- Hit the ball further down to make it lower
- Try to learn how to make no spin aswell. The backspin serve will then become much better
- Need to know why you are doing serves. If you do backspin the opponent will often push short or long, and if you have good backspin the ball will move away from his rubber so hard to play short. Soo, need to be much more ready top open up after the backspin. And maybe consider if this is the ball you want? Try to serve and return so you come to your strenghts

- Returning serves: need to learn how to make sideunder and sidetop so you can read the spin. Sideunder: angle so hit under the ball or go down, the ball will stop a bit. Sidetop: angle so hit only on the side or go up, the ball will jump. I think you should try to flip if you read sidetop. Now you try to go on the side, very difficult if good sidetop.
- Forehand and backhand: need to try to get the body in the stroke, come down a bit in the legs and try to bounce a little when playing backhand and move the body while playing forehand. Try practicing to have the arm in front of you and have it still so you are forced to move the body, then turn the torso so you can see your left shoulder when looking at the ball and then turn back with the torso. After you have learned to rotate the torso you can use free up the arm.

Good luck

Thanks Lula!

I agree with the need to learn to serve half long. I seem to be able to consistently serve short now, with relatively good backspin. I do serve no spin, or perhaps various degree of backspin, which causes players to push balls up or off the table. I find that when I serve with less backspin/no spin sometimes the ball doesn't return back to my side, it seems to have no energy and just falls on their side instead.

Yes, when I serve short, I am hoping that firstly they cannot outright attack me (unless they flick), and that they either push short or long, which then I will open up with bh/fh.

Yes I have had lots of issues with reading his serves throughout all the time. Today I seem to be doing it better than other days. The left hand is causing me trouble but I will deal with it. Will continue to work on reading serves better.

I've been neglecting the fh in hope of getting the bh more up to standard. I will try that, leaving the left hand in front so I have to rotate the body to hit the ball.

 

[Haito]

I do think pretty much everyone who can give you feedback on the footage knows who you are.

I would actually be surprised if Kuba didn't know as well.

I actually asked, because I didn't know.

 

[Lula]

Thanks Lula!

I agree with the need to learn to serve half long. I seem to be able to consistently serve short now, with relatively good backspin. I do serve no spin, or perhaps various degree of backspin, which causes players to push balls up or off the table. I find that when I serve with less backspin/no spin sometimes the ball doesn't return back to my side, it seems to have no energy and just falls on their side instead.

Yes, when I serve short, I am hoping that firstly they cannot outright attack me (unless they flick), and that they either push short or long, which then I will open up with bh/fh.

Yes I have had lots of issues with reading his serves throughout all the time. Today I seem to be doing it better than other days. The left hand is causing me trouble but I will deal with it. Will continue to work on reading serves better.

I've been neglecting the fh in hope of getting the bh more up to standard. I will try that, leaving the left hand in front so I have to rotate the body to hit the ball.

Do not move the playing arm.

 

[omelet]

Any one have tips for better FH loop against underspin? [stiga allround classic, unboosted H3N]

 

[Der_Echte]

You are consistent and land the ball with spin, so the number 1 and 2 objectives are satisfied.

If you want better spin, you need more whip and bat speed.

Your current way to loop with bent arm and moving the upper arm and shoulder together will restrict the amount to whip you can make.

You do a lot of the stuff right, like get the hips down, explode up with legs and finish up at forehead without going too far over... but the bent arm and upper arm/shoulder are holding the elite level spin back.

Consider a more open arm... not a total straight arm, but at least halfway between what you do now and that... stay loose everywhere... and at impact be sure to have a loose grip for the extra slow heavy spin... and more firming for more speed.

You need more lower arm snap... your current stroke has little... it is majority upper arm moving through. Another tip for the extra spin is the use of fingers leveraging the bat handle to add extra whip right before impact. That takes some timing and practice... but when you get it, your spin levels go way up on the slow/heavy topspin vs underspin that you are showing.

You get those things along well with the other parts of the biomechanics you are showing that you do well, then you can make a boatload more spin.

Still, I stress again, even with the bent arm, you land it high enough percentage... and many players with good biomechanics still do not read the ball well enough or get position/leverage...

 

[Lula]

Any one have tips for better FH loop against underspin? [stiga allround classic, unboosted H3N]

Difficult angle.
It looks like you are standing very close so the ball almost hit you, therefore standing upright with the body. If you come back a little so you can lean a bit more forward it will be easier to get power forward. The ball sometimes seems pretty high so you could hit much more forward and sometimes short so could do a step in. I agree that you need to get movement in forearm to create spin but if you still loop upward the ball will only get higher.

So if the ball is low you can loop more up and down, but higher more forward but can not stand to close if you want to do this.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I actually asked, because I didn't know.

Funny. You both have been on the forum so long and Jeff has showed so much video of himself in the Daily TT Chit Chat thread, I am surprised you did not know who he was.

 

[Wrighty67]

Hi all, it’s been a while but I’ve been working hard on my game. I am hoping for some advice or thoughts on a challenge I am facing with my BH loop. i recorded the video below as part of another thread on the double bounce footwork, but in watching it back it struck me that I don’t much like the look of my BH…

Im playing it more often, with more confidence, and landing at a higher % - but it looks jagged and snatchy to me and not smooth and free flowing like the top players I admire and try to emulate. I know at least some of the reason is that I have followed advice from multiple sources (Ti Long for example) who emphasise the need for a sharp end and return to ready - like a martial arts punch. This doesnt seem to gel with smooth and flowing for me…

I’d welcome any objective thoughts, observations or pointers as to what you are seeing (on either wing) to help me towards a better looking and smoother stroke..

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Hi all, it’s been a while but I’ve been working hard on my game. I am hoping for some advice or thoughts on a challenge I am facing with my BH loop. i recorded the video below as part of another thread on the double bounce footwork, but in watching it back it struck me that I don’t much like the look of my BH…

Im playing it more often, with more confidence, and landing at a higher % - but it looks jagged and snatchy to me and not smooth and free flowing like the top players I admire and try to emulate. I know at least some of the reason is that I have followed advice from multiple sources (Ti Long for example) who emphasise the need for a sharp end and return to ready - like a martial arts punch. This doesnt seem to gel with smooth and flowing for me…

I’d welcome any objective thoughts, observations or pointers as to what you are seeing (on either wing) to help me towards a better looking and smoother stroke..

I have to be honest, I think you should change the drill. Maybe move the table over to the FH side more so there is less space on FH side and more on BH side and have the ball directed towards the middle of the BH side.

Taking the ball from that far over to the FH side with the BH is going to lead to bad habits on longer balls. If you take a BH from there in a match your BH is very exposed.

On these shots you are taking the ball as it is dropping (after the top of the bounce) which is a little late for what I believe you are trying to develop. This is causing you to angle your stroke more up and less forward than I think you would want. If you take the ball at the top of the bounce, I think you can make the stroke more forward and more over the top of the ball and it will have MORE Spin and More Speed. And because you are taking the ball from higher, and closer to the net, it should still be easy to clear the net. Even though this is VS BackSpin, you can spin more forward and less up if you are taking the ball at the top or on the rise because of the higher clearance and how you are meeting the ball.

It is possible that some of the awkwardness of the BH that you are seeing is that you are kind of taking the ball from a position that is not great for the BH. But it also may have to do with how much up and how little forward is in the stroke.

I am happy to hear other people's opinions on this. It is good to be able to take the ball while it is dropping too. So, if you had an intention for taking the ball as it is dropping, that is different. But your attack will be more powerful and more effective (faster, more spin, and less time for the opponent to react) if you can take the ball earlier (at the top or even on the rise).

Still, both strokes look pretty okay. And I would warn about the risks of trying to make your strokes look like someone else's (especially pros) rather than learning to feel the shape of the ball and how to direct and arc the ball with your stroke. The mechanics will get smoother if you are repeating the stroke and feeling the ball while you are doing it.

The pros have developed their strokes over 100s of 1000s of hours of training. It is worth noting how all top pros have slightly different strokes. Each person's body is different: length of upper arm, lower arm legs torso....ideally, once you have the basics, which I think you have, you learn to feel and groove the stroke so it is adjusted to your body, and to the circumstances of the incoming ball.

What do I mean by circumstances? Taking the ball earlier, the stroke may be more forward and more closed (even against backspin) which would also require a backswing that was higher. Taking the ball later, you need to drop the racket more and swing up more. The spin on the ball would require you to adjust the stroke. The kind of shot you want to take (hook, straight top, fade) would require adjustments to the shot. Part of the training is learning to adjust to each individual ball. Which is why, at a certain point, the most important training is RANDOM.

But if you were doing the same footwork and taking the ball in the middle of the BH side of the table, this would give you skills that would be much more important to develop even though this drill is not random.