Which physical exercises are the best for table tennis improvement?

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

personally i try to have a 50 minute run once a week. I was never really good at running, and i hate it, but keeping me fit for my health and for TT is enough motivation for me. i know it would be better to have 2 runs per week, even adding a shorter run, or better, a session with fractioned runs (like 10x 1 minute or whatever) that would be great. I run at a slow cruising pace, except for 10 minutes where i try to give my best.

I can feel hugely the difference when in my fitness when i do this run and when i skip it. as NL said, doing things at the table is the best training you can do. i have the privilege of working with a coach, and I promise you that 1 hour with a coach is more intense than 3 or 4 hours at the table. Usually even after just 10 or 15 minutes I'm sweating like crazy, because we start with drills and footwork, there is a bucket of balls so no interruption for picking a ball, its very intensive. Multiballs of course is the best, i'm fighting hard, the coach is pushing me to my limits, the pace is very high, higher than if i play with a very good player (anyway i wouldnt put back more than 2 or 3 most of the time).

When i train seriously like this for 1 hour, i'm really dead, i've already tried once 2 hours, it was just a waste of money as on the 2nd hour i was just late and missing all the balls. It's a real work out and in addition to the run, thats already 2 times in a week of intense training, i try to play with my buddies also 2 or 3 times in addition (between 1h30 and 2h30 typically) but this is less intense.

So far i have not find the strength and motivation to do ,uch more physical training but i think anything which makes your lower body and your core stronger is good exercise. So squats, rope jumping, abs, etc... I do that sometimes but not on strict regular basis. I think this is what you need to work. Having a strong upper body is for looking good and picking up girls. LOL. but not really useful for TT

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

if you download the Butterfly app; they have some exercices for physical training

 

[ajtatosmano2]

Having a strong upper body is for looking good and picking up girls. LOL. but not really useful for TT

Well, strong isn't the same as BIG muscles. Strengthen the upper body can help a lot, even if it isn't in the main focus. I think it's underestimated in TT. You just have to do the right exercises and increase muscle strength, not muscle mass. Anyway, it's good for picking up girls, so do it!

 

[Suga D]

Maybe just don't try to view things only from your own perspective. Most players start as kids or early teenagers, not as grown-ups.

Generally I think we shouldn't mix up youth training and adult training. See, as an adult who has a family to feed and bills to pay it is essential not wasting too much time with things that are quite unreachable anyway, but in youth training you just don't set limits like that (like for instance: this kid won't reach USATT 2000 anyway, so let's just skip the footwork). That would be plain idiotic. One just doesn't work that way.
So building this core strength might be good in many aspects. Do you think Fan Zhendong got his monstruos thigh muscles only from table time? That's pretty ridiculous. And i don't think it's hindering him in any way. It's more the other way around. These immense muscles allow him to get in place without getting tired and prevent him from missing balls because of tiredness.

 

[NextLevel]

Why the assumption that I am trying to view things from my own perspective, especially when I am the only one who posted a paper from an expert in table tennis to substantiate his view? And maybe others can talk about the national level coaches they have discussed this with? Or because maybe people think I haven't trained along side juniors before? In fact, I have worked along side juniors both trained in the proper philosophy and trained in a manner closer to what I am saying. And Fan Zhendong's musculature, as well as Zhang Jike's is at least in part genetic. You don't develop thighs that large without genetic support, it just isn't from working out.

In fact, I can make many good arguments about the best exercise to improve table tennis being table tennis from the principle of specificity. But what I really mean is that the best exercises to improve your table tennis involve the kinds of things that you do in table tennis. Therefore, I wasn't so much criticizing Carl, who gave really good things, as making it clear that you have to be at a certain level before there are significant gains from exercises not as specific to table tennis.

My national coach friend often tells the stories of how other top athletes in other sports did not have the athletic endurance to survive multiball or how he himself despite being able to train table tennis for hours cannot play squash for more than a few minutes without being fatigued. It shows that there is large degree of sports specific optimization going on that increases the capacity to do that specific activity at a high level. He often tells people who complain about their inability to play TT as well as they would liked because of athletic/weight issues that if they are healthy enough, the body will get better and better as long as they take breaks and go back to playing and avoid overtraining when tired. After all, points don't last that long usually.

I also trained with 2 juniors, one who is now 18 and the other who is now 14 - they both started about 4-5 years ago very briefly after I did. I was initially a little ahead of them, but they caught up and overtook me as they learned to topspin before I did and could always move and spin better (Also did not have bad spin reading habits to overcome). They were not seriously trained in footwork until they broke 2000. Not saying this is a good thing or a bad thing, but it is what it is. People always mocked and complained about their footwork, just like they complained and mocked me for mine, but just as I Got better and better, they got better and better. One of these juniors was the only player to take a game off a 2800 player who visited the Butterfly NA Teams from China. Most of their training was in strokes and aggressive play based on reading the ball correctly - lots of training against spin and pips. Of course, it makes sense to give children a broad set of activities to develop their game depending on what level you are trying to get them to, and I Would likely have trained and developed the kids differently were I their main coach, but the point is that I have seen kids trained this way and it is not just me speaking from my perspective. Footwork is mostly critical in advanced play, and because you don't want kids to start from scratch when dealing with advanced play, you often train them in things early. But knowing how to hit the ball and improving your capacity to play strong strokes can get you very far even up to 2500 with modest footwork/movement. I mean, people can look at Adrian Crisan - obviously a world class athlete but his footwork speaks for itself. But his ability to play table tennis is undeniable.

What I said and meant is that most people who are playing table tennis at a high enough level for this question to matter will usually be in an environment where these things related to physical development are taken for granted. For most people, including kids, asking the question on a website, the correct answer will usually be along the lines of mine and Carl's.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

The best exercise to improve table tennis is more table tennis.

The Law of Specificity!

 

[NextLevel]

The Law of Specificity!

Happy you got it, instead of assuming I was posting it because I can only move one arm and half a leg.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Happy you got it, instead of assuming I was posting it because I can only move one arm and half a leg.

Sir,

Yep, I got it. A friend of mine is a MMA (mixed martial arts) coach ... he has enriched my understanding of training - he has always disliked how MMA fighters compartmentalized their training: brazilian jiujitsu 11-12, boxing from 1-2, wrestling from 3-4, muay thai 6-7 ... when those fighters are competing in MMA where all the arts are mixed ... he always preached Law of Specificty... the best way to get better at MMA is train MMA and not the parts that make up MMA.

So by extension, get better at TT by playing TT

 

[NextLevel]

Sir,

Yep, I got it. A friend of mine is a MMA (mixed martial arts) coach ... he has enriched my understanding of training - he has always disliked how MMA fighters compartmentalized their training: brazilian jiujitsu 11-12, boxing from 1-2, wrestling from 3-4, muay thai 6-7 ... when those fighters are competing in MMA where all the arts are mixed ... he always preached Law of Specificty... the best way to get better at MMA is train MMA and not the parts that make up MMA.

So by extension, get better at TT by playing TT

What you just wrote brings to mind an important thing my national coach friend (I am referring to Brett, if it isn't obvious) said: "Good coaches can disagree." So it is possible to get another coach with a different perspective on the same issue talking sense. But the problem is when everyone acts as if reasonable disagreement is impossible, especially when they are not making money trying to develop players. Sure, I am not developing Fan Zhendong, but if one of my students asked me what to do to get better at TT, no matter their age, I have to give them what I think is the best principled advice.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

What you just wrote brings to mind an important thing my national coach friend (I am referring to Brett, if it isn't obvious) said: "Good coaches can disagree."

It is not all YIN, it is not all YANG, it is YIN-YANG.

...if one of my students asked me what to do to get better at TT, no matter their age, I have to give them what I think is the best principled advice.

This IMO is one of the most important qualities of a Coach/Teacher/Instructor ... to the best of their Teaching/Experience/Knowledge ... they teach from the Heart ... they teach their Student what they believe is True. They are not pandering to the Student and giving what the Student wants to hear, but instead are taught what the Coach believes will help the Student.

Am i rambling again? Will Shuki think i'm as wise as Der_Echte? I will say I'm as old as Der, but I am not wise, only wise enough to know I'm not wise.

 

[Suga D]

Many points i can agree on, but also a few i cannot. Like this one here

And Fan Zhendong's musculature, as well as Zhang Jike's is at least in part genetic. You don't develop thighs that large without genetic support, it just isn't from working out.

This is a very diplomatic statement and says everything and nothing. If you look at it like that, then EVERYTHING is at least partwise genetically supported and i think it just isn't fair, for all the hours of footwork drills these guys have been through.

But many other points are quite on point. Such as this here:

Footwork is mostly critical in advanced play, and because you don't want kids to start from scratch when dealing with advanced play, you often train them in things early.

This is pretty much what i've meant by writing:
(like for instance: this kid won't reach USATT 2000 anyway, so let's just skip the footwork)That would be plain idiotic. One just doesn't work that way.

What I said and meant is that most people who are playing table tennis at a high enough level for this question to matter will usually be in an environment where these things related to physical development are taken for granted.

Totally agree, but this is 'cause they're used to this already from early ages.

For most people, including kids, asking the question on a website, the correct answer will usually be along the lines of mine and Carl's.

I could be wrong, but i understood Carl's post a little different than yours.
(To me) He wrote that it won't hurt a player to learn those things, but it will take most effect at a certain level of play.

And although you wrote something like that as well, but when i read between the lines you said: skip it=waste of time.

Hence i wrote that this might be correct for many adult learners, but not so much for kids.
But maybe i've just misinterpreted and misunderstood you....

Anyhow, you are quite right:
table time is the most important thing, but although it would certainly be a good thing, working 8days a week at the table, this could be a little too much IMHO. You need to give your brain and your body also time to let learned things sink in.
See, resting moments are pretty underrated..
It's quite similar to someone who's been continuosly working out for muscle growth and also needs to give his muscles some time to grow.
Our coach also uses a few minutes each training to go through things theoretical to understand what is happening physics-wise, but still keeping it simple at the same time.
This is pretty important 'cause some players tend to not use their brain during play.

 

[NextLevel]

Many points i can agree on, but also a few i cannot. Like this one here



This is a very diplomatic and says everything and nothing. If you look at it like that, then EVERYTHING is at least partwise genetically supported and i think it just isn't fair, for all the hours of footwork drills these guys have been through.

No, it is not. If you have the right background in the basics of statistical variation, it is not. And it is fair for all the footwork that those guys have been through, or we would see Ma Long and Wang Liqin having Fan Zhendong thighs and Zhang Jike thighs, and they clearly do not.

But many other points are quite on point. Such as this here:


This is pretty much what i've meant by writing:
(like for instance: this kid won't reach USATT 2000 anyway, so let's just skip the footwork)That would be plain idiotic. One just doesn't work that way.

But I gave two kids as examples of how what you called "plain idiotic" worked for them. It is for you to conjecture that they could have done better with earlier footwork training, but who knows, maybe they may have hated the physical demands of the sport and gotten frustrated and given up early.

I could be wrong, but i understood Carl's post a little different than yours.
(To me) He wrote that it won't hurt a player to learn those things, but it will take most effect at a certain level of play.

And although you wrote something like that as well, but when i read between the lines you said: skip it=waste of time.

Hence i wrote that this might be correct for many adult learners, but not so much for kids.
But maybe i've just misinterpreted and misunderstood this....

At this point, I am okay with you interpreting me however you want to. I posted a paper which said physical exercise tends to begin to help at over 1500 USATT and more importantly at 2000 USATT plus. This paper did not reference age - it focused on skill level. Whether you are an adult or a junior, 2000 USATT or 1600 TTR is not trivial. Neither is 1100 TTR unless one has competent strokes.

Anyhow, you are quite right:
table time is the most important thing, but although it would certainly be a good thing, working 8days a week at the table is a little too much IMHO. You need to give your brain and your body also time to let learned things sink in.
See, resting moments are pretty underrated..
It's quite similar to someone who's been continuosly working out for muscle growth and also needs to give his muscles some time to grow.
Our coach also uses a few minutes each training to go through things theoretical to understand what is happening physics-wise, but still keeping it simple at the same time.
This is pretty important 'cause some players tend to not use their brain during play.

All this is true, but besides the point. When most people ask these questions, they are usually not asking them because they know that they need a specific kind of exercise to get better at TT. They are usually asking because they think that being able to do certain exercises will make them better at playing TT. This is true, but not as true as they think it is. The question is where should they best spend their time if they are trying to improve. We can reasonably differ on the answer. You have your view, I have mine. You can interpret my view however you want to. But my view is at least as informed as yours.

 

[Suga D]

No doubt. I don't question that at all. Just a different perspective and different philosophy.

Here a couple of drills regarding footwork.

Thigh training german u23 National Team:

Same training - different vid

Workout for explosiveness in footwork

German women's National Team workout.

I think the effectivity and motivation behind this is pretty obvious

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

NL, I don't agree with your points.

1) beginners or lower rated players win points by opponent mistakes. Footwork is not really required to win points in this level
Once players gets stronger, footwork is crucial, this is where the better player will seperate from the weaker player.
Maybe in your eye, all you see is the fancy top spin, but to generate the top spin will require footwork. Footwork and weight transfer to me is the same thing.

2) physical training at pro level has become more scientific than 10 years ago.
Most countries / teams now hire professional trainers to focus on this part. And from what I see, most of these trainer do not play table tennis

3) I see you compare skills and physical. The foundation will only blossom many years later.
They both are equally important.
With a great top spin, it is useless if you can't even get to the ball properly.
And if you are lucky to get to the ball for the 1 shot, how about the next shot, and the 10 others to follow?

You would be surprised how much time physical training has increase in hours since the change of the new ball too.
Btw, this I got from CNT in early 2015, this was before the world changed to 40+
Of course further networking over the pass 2 years confirms my view point, at lease from the pro countries

 

[ttmonster]

Let me go get my popcorn !

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

okay, for OP
no more pro level talk, now a coach talk

a body has legs, and legs is like a spring.
If you do not train it/maintain it, it will not be bouncy.

For table tennis to be "smooth" footwork and physicals is important
A stroke is a stroke. A stroke with a smooth movement is a different stroke to an awkward movement.

From coaching, my adult students all feel more comfortable when in a better position to execute a stroke and for your to ask about drills means you believe physicals (off table training) is important.
Yes, it is very important.

I would suggest all serious players that want to improve:
Running - train endurance
Agility - train footwork (enough videos here for you to use for the next year) - for speed
Core - train muscles - for strength

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Let me go get my popcorn !

go train, its better than eating popcorn

 

[ttmonster]

I am actually drinking banana , spinach, kale and carrot juice smoothie, mr. coach do you approve ?

go train, its better than eating popcorn

 

[SchemeSC]

I have been stuck at the 1700 level as an in-shape, 160 pound guy that squats around 300 pounds and is active in other sports. And I've also been stuck at the 1700 level as a fat, lazy, 185 pound couch potato. What I've realized is that when i miss a shot, its normally due to some limiting factor that occurs before physical ability comes into play. Either my technique breaks down, or my timing is off, or I didn't read the ball properly, or I didnt read my opponent properly. I would love to get to a level where I actually thought that my poor physical shape was the predominant factor that was keeping me from improving. But ill never be that good.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

[ttpshot]

My opinion on ladder works:
https://twitter.com/VernonGriffith4/status/814887079343747072

I support NextLevel's sentiment that people tend to find easy way out rather than practicing hard on the table.
So, yes. Generally, the best exercise for table tennis is squats just like in any other sports. But spending same amount of time practicing serves and recieves would make us better player.