Which physical exercises are the best for table tennis improvement?

[Suga D]

I am actually drinking banana , spinach, kale and carrot juice smoothie, mr. coach do you approve ?

Yummie, that sounds delicious. Would love to have one now.
Not sure if Tony's familiar with the usage of the term 'popcorn' in this context. Maybe should take a second to elaborate.

Tony, just to make sure, the term 'popcorn' is actually an Internet joke, when two guys having a factbased, civilised and not insulting arguement and others are just fascinated and sit back watching and reading. Sometimes to be enlightened and sometimes for a good laugh.
So monster's comment wasn't meant in a negative way. Just makin' sure.

2) physical training at pro level has become more scientific than 10 years ago.
Most countries / teams now hire professional trainers to focus on this part. And from what I see, most of these trainer do not play table tennis

I totally agree, i've seen good footwork coaches and even sports psychologists that were actually coming from other sports.

One of the best lessons i've seen was two benches placed parallel about 2 meters from each other. Each participant had to sit down on one bench then get up, make two to three sidesteps to the other bench, sit down, get back up quickly and make two to three sidesteps to the other bench. And so on... Certainly as fast as possible.

Steffen Mengel was so fast doing this, my jaw dropped to the floor when i saw that.
Too bad i can't find that vid anymore.

 

[Suga D]

I would love to get to a level where I actually thought that my poor physical shape was the predominant factor that was keeping me from improving. But ill never be that good.

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Wow, this sounds a bit sad. I was quite impressed by you bouncing the ball on the table's edge.

My opinion on ladder works:
https://twitter.com/VernonGriffith4/status/814887079343747072

I support NextLevel's sentiment that people tend to find easy way out rather than practicing hard on the table.
So, yes. Generally, the best exercise for table tennis is squats just like in any other sports. But spending same amount of time practicing serves and recieves would make us better player.

IMHO the easy way out ist rather game play at the table than doing drills to rise explosiveness or strength. But that might just be me

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

....table time is the most important thing, but although it would certainly be a good thing, working 8days a week at the table, this could be a little too much IMHO. You need to give your brain and your body also time to let learned things sink in.
See, resting moments are pretty underrated..

I did not want to let this gem get lost in the confusion. Read it. Read it again. This is worth understanding.

 

[NextLevel]

NL, I don't agree with your points.

1) beginners or lower rated players win points by opponent mistakes. Footwork is not really required to win points in this level
Once players gets stronger, footwork is crucial, this is where the better player will seperate from the weaker player.
Maybe in your eye, all you see is the fancy top spin, but to generate the top spin will require footwork. Footwork and weight transfer to me is the same thing.

2) physical training at pro level has become more scientific than 10 years ago.
Most countries / teams now hire professional trainers to focus on this part. And from what I see, most of these trainer do not play table tennis

3) I see you compare skills and physical. The foundation will only blossom many years later.
They both are equally important.
With a great top spin, it is useless if you can't even get to the ball properly.
And if you are lucky to get to the ball for the 1 shot, how about the next shot, and the 10 others to follow?

You would be surprised how much time physical training has increase in hours since the change of the new ball too.
Btw, this I got from CNT in early 2015, this was before the world changed to 40+
Of course further networking over the pass 2 years confirms my view point, at lease from the pro countries

I can't see the disagreement. I made very specific points and you are agreeing with many of them, but using different words to describe them. OVer 75% of your post discusses the pro level and that is far higher than the 2250+ level at which the article I posted a link to says footwork is critical.

If footwork is part of the stroke, it is a specific table tennis activity, and that is what one should work on. If you are saying that someone should run laps and do jump ropes, and that this is more critical to improving one's table tennis than enhancing a forehand loop, then we disagree.

And if we disagree, it is not a big deal. I am training amateurs at the table, and you can train amateurs at the table and in the gym. And the question can be asked - how much time should they dedicate in the gym vs the table? My point is that the amateur almost always will gain more improving their technique and movement at the table or practicing specific shadow exercises related to moving at the table than they will gain by working out in the gym. This may be different for the pro, where the technique is established and they want the physical benefits of being able to hit the ball harder or move with more athleticism. A combination would be ideal, but if someone had to choose one, or even predominantly choose one, I would just tell them to spend all the time at the table unless there was something extremely lacking that they needed to fix.

 

[NextLevel]

I have been stuck at the 1700 level as an in-shape, 160 pound guy that squats around 300 pounds and is active in other sports. And I've also been stuck at the 1700 level as a fat, lazy, 185 pound couch potato. What I've realized is that when i miss a shot, its normally due to some limiting factor that occurs before physical ability comes into play. Either my technique breaks down, or my timing is off, or I didn't read the ball properly, or I didnt read my opponent properly. I would love to get to a level where I actually thought that my poor physical shape was the predominant factor that was keeping me from improving. But ill never be that good.

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You will be, you just have to be around the right people (you already have one) and change your approach to how you hit the ball. I used to wonder myself how I would ever get good at table tennis and what miracle would be required for me to break 2000. Keep that in mind when you are saying what you are saying.

I also used to wonder how I could ever get better without bending my knees. My body is crappier than ever, I don't do any exercise other than table tennis, and I am playing the best table tennis of my life in spurts. IT's not all about the physical ability, though my body is able to play better table tennis than it could previously.

 

[NextLevel]

okay, for OP
no more pro level talk, now a coach talk

a body has legs, and legs is like a spring.
If you do not train it/maintain it, it will not be bouncy.

For table tennis to be "smooth" footwork and physicals is important
A stroke is a stroke. A stroke with a smooth movement is a different stroke to an awkward movement.

From coaching, my adult students all feel more comfortable when in a better position to execute a stroke and for your to ask about drills means you believe physicals (off table training) is important.
Yes, it is very important.

I would suggest all serious players that want to improve:
Running - train endurance
Agility - train footwork (enough videos here for you to use for the next year) - for speed
Core - train muscles - for strength

I have never run or done an agility drill or even a core drill in the last 4 years ever since my arthritis got worse. The most athletic things I have done are the pivot and the cross step and various multiball drills and TT rallies. Yet I have improved more than many players who spend more time in the gym and are physically fitter and healthier than I am. I am not a great player by any standards, but I am making the point that the time I spend serving, receiving and looping and in rare cases coaching is more important to my improvement than any time I could spend running up and down stairs.

 

[Der_Echte]

Driving to Tennessee, Kentucky, and Kentuckinana

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Okay. Lets see what I can do here.

First off, I get NextLevel's point that if the OP is asking about exercises that will help his game get better then probably time at the table is the most important thing for the person.

Second, I get that, from the standpoint of just getting better, an hour of serving will help most people improve more than an hour of crunches and strange foot patterns of putting your feet into a box and out of that box.

However, the work I do, to a lot of people is about getting in better shape and being healthier. It is not really how I think of Yoga but it is an undeniable part of how many people in the west and many people who take my classes think of what they get when they take a yoga class. I also teach many of my classes in gyms where there are other classes that are, without question about nothing else besides fitness.

So, I know a lot of people who will simply go to a weight class, then an abs class, then a ride class (stationary bicycle), and they do it simply because they want to and simply because they want to get in better shape. Now, the people I know who really know how to work out, they go to the gym and they just work out. They don't really go to group fitness classes. They just know how to work out and they do it. I like other kinds of working out aside from table tennis and I don't really consider yoga working out. I consider it an internal process even though it has a physical element to it and it can be made to be physically challenging.

So, those people I know, who want to get in better shape who take those group classes, I don't tell them, go learn how to work out on your own, you will get more than you get from those silly classes you take. They like the classes. It is fine for them to take the classes. For them it may even be better than trying to learn to work out alone.

Okay, so I have gone off on a tangent but I think the tangent is worthwhile and useful. I plan to go on another few before I end this.

The point I am making is: IT IS ALWAYS good to workout and do fitness stuff. Or, at least for more than 90 percent of people who have normal health who are between the ages of 20-70. Most adults can benefit from more working out and more physical exercise. And physical exercise actually works better for your health when it is sufficiently varied. Your body gets smart and if you don't keep changing what you do, if you don't vary how you workout and use your body, it figures things out and stops getting stronger and faster. This is also part of why cross training is valuable. So even though the points about specificity are accurate and a pro basketball player who is in amazing shape can still get toasted by some evil multiball drills that I would handle just fine, cross straining still has value.

Now, if a normal person could spend 6-7 hours in a day playing table tennis, they might not need other exercise on a day like that. If I could play that much on a regular basis these days I would be much happier. And yes, that would probably also get my level higher, faster than working out would. But I am not going to try and read someone else's mind or life situation. I am not going to try and figure out the exact circumstances of the OP and I will go with the idea that working out is good for you and intelligent, efficient workout routines may be the fastest way for most improve their physical fitness level and their cardio endurance level.

Yes: someone who plays TT all the time, who is 800-1700 USATT, who does not have a physical limitation like RA, if they were given a fitness routine that was 1 hour long that they could do on their own or be guided through, 1, 2 or 3 days a week, doing that routine could help their fitness and cardio endurance levels improve much faster than their FITNESS would improve with 6 hours a day of playing table tennis with people OF THEIR OWN LEVEL.

From a fitness standpoint, if I play with a coach like Paul David for an hour I get a pretty decent workout. If I play 3-4 hours of training with another player my level, I still will not get the amount of physical workout I get with Paul David in 1 hour; in truth, if I play 7-8 hours with someone my level it still may not be as much as I get in an hour with Paul David, especially if we go all out. If I workout in the gym for 1 hour, I can get as much or more of a workout than I can get in an hour of all out training with Paul David. Part of why is that I know how to workout.

So, here is a scenario. It is Tuesday night. I finish teaching at 8pm. I could walk home and do nothing. On Tuesday my last class is a 20 min walk from home. I could get on a train, go to Manhattan and play at a club for an hour or two. Max table time would be 90 min with a guarantee of waiting to get on a table. If I do that I get to the club by 8:40pm. I leave the club 10:40pm. I get home 11:30pm. And I don't get much play time and I get home sort of late. Or I could stay at the club I finished teaching at, work our for 90 min, and get home before 10pm. The workout would be non-stopped. I would go from exercise to exercise. Do some running on a treadmill for maybe 20 min. I have a way of working on a treadmill where I spike the speed for 30 and 60 second sprints and then drop the speed back to a 10 min mile. This method is really efficient for increasing cardio endurance. Then I do some shadow footwork drills (lefty and righty), mix them with ladder drills, abs, pushups, and go from exercise to exercise, so that, when I hit a wall and am at max, I switch exercises so I can keep working at full capacity but change what body parts I am working. After about 40 min of that, I can hit weights for 20 min and then finish with 10 min of stretching.

From the standpoint of physical fitness, I did the equivalent of 6-8 hours of what I would get if I had gone to that club to play for 2 hours. From the standpoint of amount of fitness training, it would take 4 Tuesdays of going to the club to get the same amount of fitness workout as 90 min at the gym. And that working out, would crossover into my ability to play table tennis to some extent even if it did not do as much for my table tennis skills as going to the club would.

So, from the standpoint of efficiency, if my goal is nothing but getting better at table tennis as fast as I can, then, for a player under 2000, NextLevel has a point. But from the standpoint of my life, I would take the workout 70 percent of the time. A few years ago, I would not. I would have taken the table time. So I get that. But today, thinking of the whole scope of my life and the value of getting home to be with my family earlier, I would take the more efficient workout that is not directly about TT but can have some value to my TT skills anyway, over the one that is directly and immediately about TT.

What is the point I am really making here:

Often it is not the best thing to do to discourage someone from doing something that may be healthy for them like working out.

If the OP's question was, "what is the fastest way I can improve in TT," I think NextLevel may have the right answer.

But since I choose to hear the OP's question as: "I want to workout to supplement my TT, I want to do stuff that can help improve my overall fitness level but I want it to be stuff that is useful cross training for TT as well," FROM THAT STANDPOINT I find it wise to encourage that impulse rather than discouraging it.

 

[ajtatosmano2]

How much time at the table vs in the gym training? For me, it's just don't make any sense. I don't have much time, so I spend as much time at the table as I can. I do physical training at home, at school's physical culture class (our teacher is a nice guy and let us do sport specific exercises) and when trainer comes to the session. I would never spend time and money going to gym. Training at home is fairly easy. I learn half an our, then around 20 min. physical training, then learning something else...etc. I think nearly everyone can find 15-30 min a day for physical training.
Physical training won't teach you how to play TT, but allows you to use well what you learned at the table.

 

[Suga D]

Many many good points already made. Even though i must admit NL has a point, Carl just nailed it.

I just would like to add, that we also should keep in mind that the tabletennis game has changed drastically.

If you look back in time for about 15 years, it was much easier to play unreachable shots with a 2.5mm speedglued sriver and a 38mm ball, but nowadays much more effort ist needed to make that same shot from 15 years ago. Due to the change to 40 and then to 40+ the game has become much more physically challenging.
Whereas 15 years ago you could find quite a few players at the top level not being in an excellent shape, you will hardly find this nowadays, maybe with very few exceptions (although Karakasevic has retired internationally now)
So the fitness component in tabletennis is becoming more and more important.
PLUS: In a society with many health issues caused by obesity, personal fitness, that keeps preventing these issues, becomes more and more important, too.

Physical training won't teach you how to play TT, but allows you to use well what you learned at the table.

There is a lot of truth behind this

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

The OP obviously wants to know what physicals to do
But we have a lot of genius here that says, rather play more on the table
It is like OP wants to play Cpen SP and then everyone says rather play SH LP etc

I don't think it is necessary to convince anyone what kind of training is best for what kind of level
OP wants to do physicals, and I'm sure he has some good ideas on different physicals to do

physical training is demanding and can be done in little time.
mostly people use excuses of "no time"
a 1 mins ladder drills to me is more beneficial than 1 mins of multi ball
Anyone can do this drill before shower/bath

 

[NextLevel]

Sure, Carl. When someone asks what blade to use, you often ask questions or make comments that try to discern what they are talking about. I could have asked the OP what level he plays at etc. And of course, there is a benefit from being fitter in table tennis or life in general. But like I have said, most people asking this question are at a level where the specific benefits of exercise outside of TT are marginal. Just as you use your expertise to investigate or provide answers that are beyond the scope of the original question, others can too.

And you gave a great answer. Most of your post is full of TT specific movements. I started doing similar movements even if inconsistently and they show up in matches on some points when I throw caution to the winds.

But the first thing that people should be told when it comes to exercise that improves their table tennis is that the activity must be as TT specific as possible to yield the most benefits. People tend to recommend all kinds of exercises without starting with those specific to TT or encouraging people to spend more time at the table.

Maybe fais's point to me which I didn't get earlier was that you have to practice the right kind of TT to get better at it. In any case, the the first thing that must be stressed and which never gets stressed in these responses is the law of specificity unless the player is already an expert. This is an empirical issue and it is easy to draw analogies with all kinds of things but the bottom line is what works.

And of course, if you are concerned about their general health, feel free to recommend yoga as well. Or running. Or walking. It just won't get them better at table tennis. Estee Ackerman at 11 years old could out play Rafael Nadal. Does anyone want to debate who is fitter or healthier or stronger?

Let's not mix up life with table tennis.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

NL
apologies then, I did skip through a lot of your long text
so maybe I did misread

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Yep. Some good posts. And, NL, as with all your posts, the latest one also makes several good points. And for the record for people who don't realize, NL and I are not arguing, against each other or even really on different sides of the fence. We both are presenting valuable perspectives. And yes, the reason I made the videos of me doing shadow strokes was to show people things directly related to TT that they could do when not on the table. And there is no question about the value of specificity in training. And there is a reason why a top basketball player could still be brought to his knees by an intense multiball drill. And why I could make that same basketball player feel even more embarrassed as he feels totally inept in a room filled with seemingly weak woman all able to outperform him straight through my yoga class. Trust me, it has happened.

And, as NextLevel implied, we really probably should ask the OP a bunch of questions. Of course it seems he has gone underground since his first post. But, here goes.

What is your level?

Are you looking for the fastest way to improve or are you looking for fitness cross training that will help your overall level for those times when you can't get access to a table and/or a good training partner?

Can you be as specific about your needs and circumstances as possible? Like, if it is hard to find training partners or if you play at a club or at a table in your home.

By the way, if a mid-level player asked me the fastest way to improve and I knew nothing about his/her level and was not going to find out, the general, generic information I would give is:

1) Practice serves.
2) And practice serve and receive drills.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[ttpshot]

Wow, this sounds a bit sad. I was quite impressed by you bouncing the ball on the table's edge.


IMHO the easy way out ist rather game play at the table than doing drills to rise explosiveness or strength. But that might just be me

Absolutely, gaining strength takes years and years of dedication and hard training. But even then, it won't be of any use if a player avoids multiballs or spending 100 times more practice sessions on the table looping. I was referring to below:

They are usually asking because they think that being able to do certain exercises will make them better at playing TT.

In most cases, the "exercises" involves some sort of quick foot patterns, crunches and "core" work with inflated balloons. They all take couple sessions to master and are easy way out.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

bouncey bounce bouce

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

hi all and good night from Damascus !
i would ask , is sprinting good for tabletennis .. i mean the sprint with all effort you can do through short time .. , however , what exercises are petty for developing repetition of topspin strokes (multiball chinese training) ..backhand and forehand

Ahmad, this is the thread you want to read.


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[Ahmad Arnous]

thank you boss

 

[Ilia Minkin]

I sort of agree that for beginners and intermediate level players spending time on the table is the best to improve. The things get tricky when one cannot play as much because there is no full-time TT club around. Or one has an hour for exercise, but getting to the club and playing there even for a short session will take way more time, but they'd like to do something useful for their TT. So doing physical stuff during that time slot makes sense. Of course, one can do shadowplay, but sometimes it gets too boring and physical ecercise can add-up some variety.

A question for specifically for Tony: what is the best use of jump rope in TT? Do you make your students do it?