Why does it seem like I play to the level of my opponent?

[TensorBackhand]

I sometimes play both 2100 players, and also 1700 players. It always seems like I play to the level of my opponent. When I play 2100 guys, I can often hang in with them, getting to deuce, winning games here and there.

But then when I play 1700 guys, I fall to their level and sometimes lose matches or barely scrape by winning match.

When I play the 2100 guys, my mindset is that I have to loop or they are going to loop me to death. So it forces me to open up and I end up hanging in with them.

Against the 1700 guys, I watch them miss a few shots badly, and I start thinking "ok, statistically, they are going to lose if they miss 6 out of 10 loops. I better just not screw up" But what happens is that I kinda freeze and play rigid and I end up losing.

What is going on and how can I fix my problem?

 

[DukeGaGa]

As Jeremy Clarkson puts it, "POWER!!!!!"

 

[dingyibvs]

I have the opposite problem. I play up and down to my opponents because I'm aggressive all the time. It doesn't matter quite as much what my opponent's level is because so long as I can land my loops, I'll score points. I'll lose most of the points by missing my shots rather than unable to defend my opponent's shot.

 

[blahness]

You can't improve if all you're doing is trying to extract errors from your opponents - the good players always adjust and eventually they stop missing and then the other person will be in trouble.

So you should play against the 1700s the same way you play the 2100s - looping and attacking instead of staying passive and waiting. Worse - once you become passive then you will make a lot of errors being aggressive if you do go for it mid match.

It's also a much more physical and fun way to play table tennis xD.

Recently I played a person who although he was generally weaker than me, a few lucky points and some weird af serves/pushes gave him 3 match points against me (10-7 in the 3rd set in a best of 3). He was also landing some crazy attacks. Then he started playing passive and then lost 5 straight points and the match because I simply looped with a lot of spin to various placements and just finished the points that way. If he had tried to attack even once he would have won the match for sure - his attacks were so sudden that I wasn't getting a lot of them back, he was just afraid to make a mistake.

It feels safer to push and block - but if you count the winning %, they usually pale to getting the 1st loop in with a lot of spin.

 

[NextLevel]

Canadian ratings dont make sense, don't interpret them like US ratings.

 

[Scarfed Garchomp]

"Don't screw up" seems reductive and negative and it seems to be a mindset that is strongly psyching you out from making productive decisions in your games. Maybe try taking in your situation at face value and just focus on trying to play your own game as well as you can

 

[TensorBackhand]

"Don't screw up" seems reductive and negative and it seems to be a mindset that is strongly psyching you out from making productive decisions in your games. Maybe try taking in your situation at face value and just focus on trying to play your own game as well as you can

In my mind is feels like im doing the smart thing. Like is Shaq wants to shoot a 3 pointer, you give it to him.

But it doesnt always work out for me.

 

[mocker88]

Well. I'm quite similar, and I feel that it's a lack of confidence in your technique. Or perhaps lack in technique. You have to be more active and force your opponent into your game play. Only then you can get the advantage of your higher skill.

 

[hclnnkhg]

I've seen several players with similar problems, and they all have lots of coaching. For them, my observation is that they are particularly good at handling the orthodox two-wing looping opponent who would give them good quality topspin balls that they are very familiar with due to feeds from coaches. So when they play stronger opponents, they can stay in the topspin rallies and win some points.

But when they play against weaker players, sometimes they struggle with unorthodox techniques, in particular floats; on the other hand they can handle heavy backspin.

Not sure if this is anything similar to your situation.

 

[Wrighty67]

Could it be that the higher level players are playing down to your level whereas the lower level are doing all they can (with nothing to lose) to beat you?

 

[NDH]

I sometimes play both 2100 players, and also 1700 players. It always seems like I play to the level of my opponent. When I play 2100 guys, I can often hang in with them, getting to deuce, winning games here and there.

But then when I play 1700 guys, I fall to their level and sometimes lose matches or barely scrape by winning match.

When I play the 2100 guys, my mindset is that I have to loop or they are going to loop me to death. So it forces me to open up and I end up hanging in with them.

Against the 1700 guys, I watch them miss a few shots badly, and I start thinking "ok, statistically, they are going to lose if they miss 6 out of 10 loops. I better just not screw up" But what happens is that I kinda freeze and play rigid and I end up losing.

What is going on and how can I fix my problem?

There is a lot more to unpack here than how it appears on the face of it.

The biggest question has to be..... Is the rating relevant? Are you overlooking the style of the opponent?

I can beat some very high ranked players, and then lose to lower ranked players (who can't beat the high ranked players I can).

Why? Styles - I'm good against defensive players, where they are not as good.

Likewise, they are good against players like me, and I'm less good against them......

It has nothing to do with ranking, and everything to do with styles.

However, if it's simply a case of you struggling with a similar/same style, but a lesser ranked opponent, then it's a mental issue.

In this case, in my experience it comes down to concentration and discipline.

I'm a nightmare for playing well below my level against lower ranked opponents - The scores usually look much closer than they should (even if I'm winning 3-0).

You will never look as good against weaker opponents because they won't allow you to look good.

You will rarely have long drawn out rallies and explosive shots.

Winning ugly is just as important in my opinion!

 

[Lazer]

I sometimes play both 2100 players, and also 1700 players. It always seems like I play to the level of my opponent. When I play 2100 guys, I can often hang in with them, getting to deuce, winning games here and there.

But then when I play 1700 guys, I fall to their level and sometimes lose matches or barely scrape by winning match.

When I play the 2100 guys, my mindset is that I have to loop or they are going to loop me to death. So it forces me to open up and I end up hanging in with them.

Against the 1700 guys, I watch them miss a few shots badly, and I start thinking "ok, statistically, they are going to lose if they miss 6 out of 10 loops. I better just not screw up" But what happens is that I kinda freeze and play rigid and I end up losing.

What is going on and how can I fix my problem?

Try teaching Yourself not to care so much if You win or loose...

Cheers
L-zr

 

[SleepyMaster]

Hm, interesting. I guess here is something wrong with the rating of a players, that you play. They differs so much in every country, so sometimes it’s almost makes no sense.

But if you CONSTANTLY losing to lower level player - it’s gives you a picture, that you not far away from that level. Because if you better, why you lose? You should win more of them, but maybe not in fancy way. If those loses comes occasionally - that’s shouldn’t bother you as much

The theory of clashes of styles is working, when players about the same level, from the same league. National level player very rarely (I even can say never) lose to unorthodox low level amateur, no matter what a crazy style he has. He just serve, than loop and win.

No matter who you playing, and how much rating they have - try to play your best game. Focus on simple steps like: looping long serves, don’t lose focus on serve receive, fight for every point. You should take seriously every one, who is in front of you

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Try teaching Yourself not to care so much if You win or loose...

Cheers
L-zr

This does not work when beer and pizza is at stake..

or in my context, ginger chai with roti prata ( flat bread with curry )

 

[TheProfessor]

I sometimes play both 2100 players, and also 1700 players. It always seems like I play to the level of my opponent. When I play 2100 guys, I can often hang in with them, getting to deuce, winning games here and there.

But then when I play 1700 guys, I fall to their level and sometimes lose matches or barely scrape by winning match.

When I play the 2100 guys, my mindset is that I have to loop or they are going to loop me to death. So it forces me to open up and I end up hanging in with them.

Against the 1700 guys, I watch them miss a few shots badly, and I start thinking "ok, statistically, they are going to lose if they miss 6 out of 10 loops. I better just not screw up" But what happens is that I kinda freeze and play rigid and I end up losing.

What is going on and how can I fix my problem?

I feel you man. At my last tournament a few days ago, I was playing against a 1800~ level player I think. I won a game 11-1 and lead 2 games to 1 but ended up losing the match. I got smoked in the decider.

Since I was able to win a game 11-1, clearly I'm a higher level, but my game is just really funky during tournaments. I struggle to finish points and matches, I tend to play safe too much. I seem to have a similar problem to yours, hopefully I can get better.

 

[Der_Echte]

NDH gave a coherent account... and it could be more.

Aside from the inexperience or trouble with some style or impact, you could be simply failing to see what was happening and how to adjust.

An example is in big tourney with new tables, the friction is high, so a very slow light underspin will stop, instead of go forward... players can miss a ton of shots until they adjust, like moving up a little and waiting a little.

Another area is mental performance... you just need more seasoning, especially vs the not so high level crowd.

Drive up to LA and play at Dr Le's octta huge tt club... a bazillion such players there you never faced.

 

[hclnnkhg]

I feel you man. At my last tournament a few days ago, I was playing against a 1800~ level player I think. I won a game 11-1 and lead 2 games to 1 but ended up losing the match. I got smoked in the decider.

Since I was able to win a game 11-1, clearly I'm a higher level, but my game is just really funky during tournaments. I struggle to finish points and matches, I tend to play safe too much. I seem to have a similar problem to yours, hopefully I can get better.

whilst 11-1 is an one-sided game, it could happen between players of similar level as well. Liu Shiwen had 11-0 games against Ding Ning and Chen Meng respectively in 2019 WTTC, that doesn't prove that she is much better (she did win WTTC at the end, but the overall level of all these players are still close).
Obviously you could actually be the much better player in this case, it's just that one 11-1 game isn't sufficient proof.

 

[Dominikk85]

I think there are several factors.

1) the good players are not focusing as hard maybe mess around a little. Part of that might be intentional but part also might be that it is a natural tendency to not focus as hard if you don't need to.

That Is a totally normal reaction, the human brain isn't made to work harder than it needs to, you tend to save mental energy for when you are really challenged.

2) like the better player against you you lose focus against lesser players

3) there is less pressure against a good player, you don't "need" to win.

4) you don't need to generate your own pace against better players so much, and if you are not a total noob but you have a decent blocking game it might be easier to play decent blocks than to open up yourself against crappy balls.

I had the same issue when I played tennis as a teenager, I played much better against better players, I would still lose of course but play decent and make some nice points.

My best ever tennis match was when I lost 6-0 6-0 against a good former junior player. I had no chance but got to a couple of deuces and hit a few nice winners and generally played great high pace rallies for 3-4 strokes before he outplayed me.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

I've seen several players with similar problems, and they all have lots of coaching. For them, my observation is that they are particularly good at handling the orthodox two-wing looping opponent who would give them good quality topspin balls that they are very familiar with due to feeds from coaches. So when they play stronger opponents, they can stay in the topspin rallies and win some points.

But when they play against weaker players, sometimes they struggle with unorthodox techniques, in particular floats; on the other hand they can handle heavy backspin.

Not sure if this is anything similar to your situation.

you are exactly describing me.

i don't play enough players with floats/ slow balls and i struggle with those especially to my BH.
then mental does the rest.

i described what happened to my last tournament in the other thread where i lost to a beginner chopper with LP perhaps 300 or more points below me after winning 11-4 G1. then suddenly i missed cause i started moving less and focus less, and instead of changing tactics with tens of options available i just kept on playing the same and getting nervous and worse and one could have though i was a beginner as well.

next match i beat 3-1 a veteran with LP which was quite better than this guy and last i played a national level chopper coach who played very seriously. and i played a great great match with many long and spectacular rallyes even i logically lost (last game was 11-13 i only lost because of his serve)

but its because i also train regularly with another coach chopper with LP; and he doesn't give balls which are so floating and slow and not strange weird BH dirty attacks that have less than 20% of getting in but when they do have a strange trajectory and floating....

TLDR If i want to avoid this to repeat again and again i have to find a way to play more often this kind of opponent in training even if it looks boring or not specially fun; and try to crush them all without mercy.

 

[hclnnkhg]

you are exactly describing me.

i don't play enough players with floats/ slow balls and i struggle with those especially to my BH.
then mental does the rest.

i described what happened to my last tournament in the other thread where i lost to a beginner chopper with LP perhaps 300 or more points below me after winning 11-4 G1. then suddenly i missed cause i started moving less and focus less, and instead of changing tactics with tens of options available i just kept on playing the same and getting nervous and worse and one could have though i was a beginner as well.

next match i beat 3-1 a veteran with LP which was quite better than this guy and last i played a national level chopper coach who played very seriously. and i played a great great match with many long and spectacular rallyes even i logically lost (last game was 11-13 i only lost because of his serve)

but its because i also train regularly with another coach chopper with LP; and he doesn't give balls which are so floating and slow and not strange weird BH dirty attacks that have less than 20% of getting in but when they do have a strange trajectory and floating....

TLDR If i want to avoid this to repeat again and again i have to find a way to play more often this kind of opponent in training even if it looks boring or not specially fun; and try to crush them all without mercy.

Just ask your LP chopper coach to mix up his feed.