Why don't Pro's just do serve that comes back to their side?

[TensorBackhand]

This is Ma Lin's 'ghost' serve.

This isnt what I mean. Ma Lin's ball is going long.

 

[Dr Evil]

I've seen a video of one junior player winning point after point with ghost serves against another (very small) junior who simply didn't have enough reach. But that's the only scenario where this works. Otherwise the required precision is too much even for pro players. I'd bet good money Franziska's success rate with that genuinely unreturnable serve is well under 10 percent.

 

[RefereeNumber2]

How do you know that professional players aren't using this serve? It's exceedingly rare for a pro player to completely whiff on a serve return, so we don't get to see how the ball would have bounced if it weren't touched by the receiver's racket.

Assuming you're not the first person to think of this (you definitely aren't), then the fact we don't see this serve winning tons of cheap points means that it's either harder to consistently execute short enough, and/or that it's actually easier to return than you think (i.e., just a short touch back). Both are likely true.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Look at his level 4 serve. There's no way Mima Ito can reach that serve.

 

[NetProphet]

Look at his level 4 serve. There's no way Mima Ito can reach that serve.

She should put her rubbers on this 😛

 

[igorponger]

It is all about ethical rules. Ancient Huns, native of blackwoods, had had no morality at all, you know.

 

[Robin0910]

There’s nothing to do with ethics and morals here. People hide their serve, that’s even more unethical. Even pros can’t consistently pull that serve off. It’s a little higher, slower, deeper and you get a very hard ball back.

 

[IB66]

This isnt what I mean. Ma Lin's ball is going long.

I Know, but if you read the posts, he set up this point by using other serves.
the very short heavy back spin serve is in Pro players arsenal. but it's very difficult to reproduce the quality required consistently.

 

[Draycott old man]

I Know, but if you read the posts, he set up this point by using other serves.
the very short heavy back spin serve is in Pro players arsenal. but it's very difficult to reproduce the quality required consistently.

I have my own table and practice serving regularly but the problem is it's a totally different game when you have to do theses services in a match situation as you have to be totally relaxed. If I could bring my service practice to my matches I'd be a decent player!! Are well I'll keep practicing hopefully I'll relax enough during matches one day lol 😜 😜 😜

 

[longle]

 

[Attitude]

Problem 1: not ez to execute with high quality (ie fast and not foreseeable)

Problem 2: slow serve. A pro like mima ito would easily react in time and could even walk around table and hit a return.
Imagine if mima ito is even fast enough to hit the ball after it comes back to your side. Imagine what she would do that serve. Im quite sure you would never do that serve again after that.

Problem 3: You have the biggest angle to return. Your return doesnt have to be an attack to be freaking dangerous from the position the serve will land.

Problem 4: usually pros want to force a certain return with their serve.
With the ghost serve you cant foresee anything from the return. So you either win the point because you play against TB or you are fucked.

I did once something similar against an older opponent. He even reacted way too late and hit the ball with the edge last second. The ball came on my side in such a shitty way i couldnt attack with quality.
I tested that 2 more times and needed to give up because i couldnt force my tactic on my opponent this way. Every return ended up way too awkward.
Therefore i had better success with other serve tactics like longer reverse pendulum serves or plain long underspin serve.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Look at his level 4 serve. There's no way Mima Ito can reach that serve.

how many failure for that shot you see that is good?

and you really think mima ito can't step around to either side to kill it?
you surely haven't seen mima ito live before.

 

[iammaru]

Simple. No one can do it with high quality and consistency yet. It’s too hard to do an unreturnable ghost serve (like Franziska did) in real and tense matches. If someone is able to do it, he doesn’t need to do it all the time, just at crucial points and it would be a deadly weapon. But again the problem here is it’s too hard to pull off, too risky even for professional players. They can lose more points than they win if they try to do it.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Yes, exactly this.

If that little kid can do it, why can't top pros do it consistently?

And to be honest, the kid didn't even do the serve that well. What I mean is, 1 bounce on the opponent's side, and then come back over the net.

 

[Aizen]

Opponent can still hit ball at red circle position to sides which would be impossible to counter.
I think doing decent ghost serve is harder than stepping in from sides and hit.

Pro’s are stepping to short forehand side, and doing super fast backhand flip to ball that even lower than net.

Any high level player can return this kind of serve, either drop shot immediately after bounce , or flip at height point when ball coming back, unless they are sleeping.

 

[NetProphet]

Yes, exactly this.

If that little kid can do it, why can't top pros do it consistently?

And to be honest, the kid didn't even do the serve that well. What I mean is, 1 bounce on the opponent's side, and then come back over the net.

If you do that a 2nd time to a pro, let's say Mima Ito even, then she's gonna be on it quicker than flies on shite and your gonna get a ball you can't touch. I'd even chop it with the edge of the racket just to make a point!
I think @Attitude in post 31 has given very good reasons.
If it did work against very short players tho, I think that eventually morals or ethics of the game would come into it a bit.
When watching that video of the kids we can all see that it's a very crappy way to win, and the kid doing that serve isn't really helping himself in the long run. I don't think many pros would be happy to beat Mima Ito this way, exposing her height to repeatedly hit a serve that she cannot reach..... I could be way off here, maybe they're all just cut throat but I wouldn't be happy to beat someone that way.
Do you really not think it would be figured out at pro level very quickly?
What are the specific reasons that make you think it could realistically work?

 

[Attitude]

If you do that a 2nd time to a pro, let's say Mima Ito even, then she's gonna be on it quicker than flies on shite and your gonna get a ball you can't touch. I'd even chop it with the edge of the racket just to make a point!
I think @Attitude in post 31 has given very good reasons.
If it did work against very short players tho, I think that eventually morals or ethics of the game would come into it a bit.
When watching that video of the kids we can all see that it's a very crappy way to win, and the kid doing that serve isn't really helping himself in the long run. I don't think many pros would be happy to beat Mima Ito this way, exposing her height to repeatedly hit a serve that she cannot reach..... I could be way off here, maybe they're all just cut throat but I wouldn't be happy to beat someone that way.
Do you really not think it would be figured out at pro level very quickly?
What are the specific reasons that make you think it could realistically work?

Exactly.
I wanna add (somewhat again), @TensorBackhand do you really think that shorter pros like mima wouldnt reach it?
I mean these players can out maneuver topspins. In what world cant they outrun a freaking slow serve? Thats a sidejump+splitstep, which someone like mima can do in half a second.

So yeah you might troll her once, because she would never account that high level of stupidityl, using such a serve against her, but afterwards that serve would put yourself into your grave.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

under estimating the speed of Ito....

 

[TensorBackhand]

Exactly.
I wanna add (somewhat again), @TensorBackhand do you really think that shorter pros like mima wouldnt reach it?
I mean these players can out maneuver topspins. In what world cant they outrun a freaking slow serve? Thats a sidejump+splitstep, which someone like mima can do in half a second.

So yeah you might troll her once, because she would never account that high level of stupidityl, using such a serve against her, but afterwards that serve would put yourself into your grave.

I just want to clarify if I understand your meaning. You mean Ito would run around the side of the table to hit the ball?

1) that leaves the entire table open
2) the server can serve to her Fh side

 

[pong99]

Mima Ito would smash the crap out of a ghost serve.

Every pro player has goofed around at the end of practice and done ghost serves and other trick shots.