World #90 Iba Diaw loses to Unranked Female Opponent, Calls Cheating!

[BHShoulderPain]

I saw the match in person, and I have also seen Jiangshan lose to a 2250 player (Santi is 2300 now) so she is definitely beatable. I think there were several factors that led to Diaw's loss.

1. He did not check her equipment. He only checked her equipment after the first set, which she won 13-11.
2. He was not warmed up. The single elimination match happened several hours after the group stages where Diaw only played 2 matches. That was his first time in Westchester so not knowing that is normal.
3. Incorrect strategy. Santi and Carlos Hernandez used a similar strategy against her. Soft and slow spin to her LP. With Santi, he found a lot of success, pivoting and using slow inside-out forehands to set himself up for a winner. Carlos was just more consistent than her. Diaw, on the other hand, seemed to try finishing the points as soon as possible. Oftentimes, he would go for difficult, out of position backhand shots that had a low chance of going in. In the end, he resorted to going to her forehand in desperation, but that made his game predictable.
Diaw is a great player and even better person. His loss is a huge upset but it's human. Hope to see him again in Westchester.

 

[JJ Ng]

I saw the match in person, and I have also seen Jiangshan lose to a 2250 player (Santi is 2300 now) so she is definitely beatable. I think there were several factors that led to Diaw's loss.

1. He did not check her equipment. He only checked her equipment after the first set, which she won 13-11.
2. He was not warmed up. The single elimination match happened several hours after the group stages where Diaw only played 2 matches. That was his first time in Westchester so not knowing that is normal.
3. Incorrect strategy. Santi and Carlos Hernandez used a similar strategy against her. Soft and slow spin to her LP. With Santi, he found a lot of success, pivoting and using slow inside-out forehands to set himself up for a winner. Carlos was just more consistent than her. Diaw, on the other hand, seemed to try finishing the points as soon as possible. Oftentimes, he would go for difficult, out of position backhand shots that had a low chance of going in. In the end, he resorted to going to her forehand in desperation, but that made his game predictable.
Diaw is a great player and even better person. His loss is a huge upset but it's human. Hope to see him again in Westchester.

Why did they take down the video?

 

[dingyibvs]

The guy said "It isn't an illegal rubber."

I can’t confirm anymore but I could’ve sworn he said something to the owner, then he said "you mean the rubber is illegal?" And then he replied "yes". It was after Guo’s interview when Diaw, the owner, and another guy were chatting at a desk.

I only watched it once so I can’t be too sure, maybe others who’ve watched it can confirm or deny it.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

This is why LP should be a separate category. It's unfair for 2700 guys to lose to the equipment of their opponent.

haha

so how many categories should we have?
LP
SP
MP
Anti
EURO inverted
Chinese inverted
Penhold
Shakehand

Should just grow up, and learn to fight it, or, just lose and chin up.
PS, 2700 guy didn't loose to the equipment, he lose to a very good player.
Put same equipment in your hands, 2700 will loose to you? lol

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I was present at this event and Ibrahim Diaw never accused her of cheating. In fact, he stated multiple times that "She played very well." Although it is surprising to see such an upset occur, pibs /anti is the easiest way to upset someone. However, it is all perspective. I never played her myself, but my friend who is around 2300 beat her 3-0 just last month.
And I didn't come to defend either player in any way. The ending was definetely sketchy.

so video likely took down as Diaw wasn't happy about the videos editor on how the truth was bent to suit the narrative of the video.
click bait possibility even higher

These LP players are very single dimensional.
Once you know how to handle them, the threat is over.

 

[zeio]

The level of customization will vary. But you are fingerpointing just the pips players. I will restrain myself from commenting about smooth rubber players for now

You must've missed my other post.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/do-players-like-dimitri-change-their-equipment-due-to-sponsorship-with-other-brands.23591/post-316819

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Sorry I am just curious
Can you please explain how it is a "practice" for combination players to keep their equipment a secret ?

It is simple - who goes and speak out in public on what the players use? The players don't do that, at most it is the TT companies. It serves the players no good to let the whole world knows what is going on, right?
Secondly, there is never a forever secret, sooner or later, if you want the answer, you can get it, but keeping it a secret for the longer, the better - call this competition/advantage

My understanding is that an opponent has the right to inspect an opponents' racket before a match .
So if I am playing an opponent I will check if my opponent's combination racket is ITTF approved, if this is an ITTF tournament. What else is there ?

And if I do not bother to check my opponent's racket before a match , is it my fault or their fault ?

Or is my opponent obligated by the rules to show their racket before a match ?

prior to match, you can request to view your opponents racket
Racket control takes care of the legalities.
The forum members on here that goes to Westchester can comment if there is proper racket control table there or not. I doubt there is, as there isn't even umpires on duty.

This is similar to an unrelated misconception that the minimum 2 minute pre-match warmup is mandatory (& not optional) . Even more funny is when players demand that their combination racket opponents to quickly “train” them using their pips side , but for lot more than 2 minutes, like 10 minutes.

It is also very common practice that the 2 min warm ups, the combination player will not use the "funny" side to rally. Why let you get used to it during warm ups? that is your own job to get a coach or practice partner to warm you up against such styles, not your opponents job

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

At the pro levels , most players use custom rackets but most amateurs don't understand this or they do but are in denial and want to delude themselves that their favorite pro is using the exact identical blade & rubber they are using & this is hilarious.

The level of customization will vary. But you are fingerpointing just the pips players. I will restrain myself from commenting about smooth rubber players for now

Well, that is power of marketing and fan boy/girls loyalty, who think using the same equals the best setup for you.
but yeah, the amount of customization and quality control for pros is just "out of this world".

Well, some people are happy to use it. It is a consumer market after all and they do help with the "super stars" financial income from those TT companies

 

[Arkady]

That's not the first time that an upset of this kind happens.

A few days ago, a Greek National Team member almost lost a match to a para-athlete who is using pips on both sides.
There isn't the video of the actual game, but there are videos of them playing with other opponents.
If one watches the videos, can easily understand that the difference in the playing level and abilities is so chaotic, that the para-athlete wouldn't score a point against the National Team player. The final score was 3-2 for the GNT player after being 2-0 behind. He just won the 3rd set 13-11, a narrow escape.

The para-athlete can be seen playing in this video and has the black outfit

The GNT player can be seen in this video with the red outfit

To my opinion instances like that, only prove one thing:
Far better athletes may lose to inferior ones, just because of equipment like pips, antispin etc.
Their opponent doesn't beat them, they just lose themselves by making errors due to the type of incoming balls by pips ant antispin. It's not the opponent that wins, but the equipment.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

It's not the opponent that wins, but the equipment.

It is rather the players lack of ability to deal with such equipment.
I would guess, the player in question hardly trains against those type of equipment?

tensorbackhand is here calling for pips to be separated event (this is typical in amateur space)

well, as far as how table tennis works, it is part of the game - just like you have different grips (seemiller grip was a threat back in the days) and different rubbers (think granny Ni that still beats CNT members).

For pros, they need to acknowledge they weaknesses and face it chin up the next time round.
I still remember some Chinese World Champions that can't play choppers. So guess what - they focused on choppers for the next 6 months.

 

[beeray1]

It's table tennis - anything can happen like this. Lots of negativity in this thread. I'm a gigantic Iba fan and this was sad to see but I think he could have avoided this loss. But it's also understandable - tough style that you never worry about encountering at his level and where he plays. Combine that with a quality player who knows what they're doing despite the "lol I only practice 90 minutes a month" thing - even if you're Iba's level it's hard to just walk to the table without knowing what you're up against and win easily. Seemed like he was figuring out a better approach in the end but the match was too tight at that point. They tried to give him an out by saying "oh you weren't warmed up" or "oh the conditions" but he replied like a professional saying that's what he's used to.

I think the worst part honestly was just how cringey the thumbnail of the video was. If Iba was in on it then cool, but I doubt he was and it was just soooo bad lmao. I've heard the sentiment in this thread a few times and I agree completely - it was just a BS narrative for clickbait and reality is much more boring. I totally understand why it was taken down, and it's a shame because there's a lot of good table tennis to watch in that video.

I do think Iba breezes through anyone else though after that match had he won, and I hope he plays there again. Watching him and Mishel play would be cool because Mishel fights hard and they both have sick reverse serves but Iba is way too strong and I think we'd see peak Mishel gamesmanship.

 

[NextLevel]

I think the worst part honestly was just how cringey the thumbnail of the video was. If Iba was in on it then cool, but I doubt he was and it was just soooo bad lmao. I've heard the sentiment in this thread a few times and I agree completely - it was just a BS narrative for clickbait and reality is much more boring. I totally understand why it was taken down, and it's a shame because there's a lot of good table tennis to watch in that video.

This is a huge problem with the modern internet, and I hope the creators of that video and channel take this to heart. There were many ways of framing the issue in my opinion and it could have done better if that issue was discussed apart from the Westchester highlights. But chasing views and internet ethics are becoming blurry. Even using the phrase "cheating" in the title was just in bad taste. And Diaw, who is struggling a bit this season, wouldn't have appreciated the extra pressure of the video's narrative.

 

[Haraold]

and the shame of beeing beaten by a woman..with LP.
Not that has happened to me hundreds of times,cause you know what...she played better,lol.

 

[dingyibvs]

Also, while Guo maybe only trains 90 mins a month or whatever, I think she’s a full time coach so she’s playing all the time, probably against some pretty good players. So it’s not like she just picks up the racket occasionally.

 

[Der_Echte]

... BUT... it is the WRONG kind of SKILL...

WHAT is the right kind of skill?

... do you get points for looking athletic while playing, kinda like figure skating? No.

... do you get more points for hitting the ball harder? No.

Look at Next Level's signature on MyTT.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

ChatGPT generated this for me :

Player 1: “I just don’t get it. How can you even enjoy playing with long pips? It’s like you’re not even playing the same game. It’s almost cheating!”

Player 2: “Why would it be cheating? It’s completely legal and part of the sport. It just changes the spin dynamics.”

Player 1: “Changes the spin dynamics? More like nullifies them! The ball comes back with such unpredictable spin, it takes away the skill of reading the game.”

Player 2: “Actually, it takes a different kind of skill. You have to read the incoming spin to use long pips effectively. And as for unpredictability, that’s part of the strategy. It’s about deception and variation, not just power and spin.”

Player 1: “But it’s such a passive way to play. The pips do all the work for you, slowing down the game and making it boring.”

Player 2: “On the contrary, long pips require you to be very active with your wrist and have precise timing. And they don’t make the game boring; they add a new layer of tactics that both players have to navigate.”

Player 1: “And what about the development of a player? Relying on long pips doesn’t let you develop a proper offensive game.”

Player 2: “Long pips can be used offensively as well. They’re just another tool. Good players must adapt to different styles, which actually broadens their experience and development.”

Player 1: “But it’s a crutch for poor technique. Instead of perfecting your strokes, you’re relying on the rubber to compensate.”

Player 2: “Not at all. Using long pips effectively requires excellent technique, especially in positioning and stroke adaptation. Plus, everyone has access to the same equipment. If it were such an advantage, why doesn’t everyone use them?”

Player 1: “I guess I just feel it’s a way to win without playing ‘real’ table tennis.”

Player 2: “But ‘real’ table tennis is about variety, adaptation, and mental toughness. Long pips test all of those. It’s not about the rubber; it’s about the player behind it.”

 

[blahness]

No joke but Zhou Xintong revealed in Fang Bo's 全世爆 sessions that she used to beat some CNT team A men's team players. Even Fang Bo was struggling af against her pips play (but won in the end).

I also think pips should be banned outright because it doesn't promote an athletic style of play befitting a proper sport.

But there are a lot of people who defend them, saying that it promotes variety....

 

[Der_Echte]

I think way back in the day, when the WR top 50 or so had ZERO frictionless pips players... way back then (IDK, maybe 2006ish) ITTF banned frictionless Long Pips... and I think that a certain crowd had more than a little influence on this... no one at the top to middle ranks of pros were troubled by them...

I think the Air Assault Green Beret Airbourne Ranger Delta Force Operator parents of developing kids who in the first 3 years alone of intense training at $100 USD+ per hour spend over $100,000 USD on thier kids literally cried a river when there six figure trained kid could not win vs a fat 60 yr old dude wearing a headband gut hanging over the table could move only one step...

Yup, these parents spent sum more cash to influence this. happens everywhere in the world in politics... and in 2006, ITTF was a huge political money making machine.

This change in equipment rules made millions for ITTF in so many ways as makers had to make new rubbers and get them approved every year to stay on the list.

 

[Der_Echte]

All U young guns on the forum should want to have been alive in those days... pro trained kid who rips every ball with the finest in expensive BTY bat and rubber speed glued enough emitting enough VOCs to dissolve the ionosphere coupled with their years long ardent training and $100,000 expense...

...such a class of kid in a tourney had to face Ole Grumpie 64 yr old 1.6m tall 125 kg grampa wearing a sweat band...

Kid would rip a speed glued topspin screamer, old dude stick hiz bat out, soft blocks it, now ball coming back and eager beaver attacks again, but forgot how much spin he made with hiz glued up bat... or simply did not have enough bat speed to loop such a heavy ball again... and was trained to relentlessly rip at everything... and hit shot after blocked shot into the net...

OH the absolute HORROR of such a sight... 11 yr old kid who is already a 4+ year TT Warrior veteran would well up in tears... could not hold the family honor... upset he actually missed vs such an unathletic looking grampa... was crappin in pants and wetting hiz drawers in fear of big pappa verbally and physically addressing him for such a failure...

Yup, such sights were common in the years before slippery LP rubbers got banned. Crying kids and enraged daddies. Yup, many a sight of such action back then.

Even in the friction era I faced a star kid who was ironically an LP chopper and tore was decisively defeating him... all while hiz father was watching silently courtside... but kid knew what was coming and as score got to 5-8 in last game, he knew he was doomed and the tears were a forming...

Why? He knew his daddy was gunna take him to the side of the building...

... and yes, there was an unexplained 20 minute absence from this kid and hiz daddy right after that match... sure kid got at least the riot act read to him.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

I have learned to not feel shameful when a 125kg grand daddy beat me 11-2, 11-3, 11-4 while standing still and using 100% wrist work and long-pips on one side and short pips on the other side.

I am past that. Must maintain Peace & Harmony at all times.