World Cup 2024

says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
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Yo @zeio , you've been arguing some time now that Hirano should be regarded as the JNT's ace for defeating team China and girls like Hayata should step aside. How exactly does that work when she's out there getting swept 0-4 by CM who Hayata handled 3-1 just a few weeks ago?

If your argument is that one bad match isn't an indicative sample size then I'd agree with you. In fact we shouldn't draw conclusions and write off players after several bad matches, because (1) that's actually not how sports tend to play out and (2) it's just poor manners being so unsympathetic to players for losing. In the same way, we can't draw grand conclusions based on a few good matches in 2017 or last year.

Actually, you're free to draw whatever conclusions you please, just be aware that when you're doing it in such an insufferable and cock-sure way, that some people are going to call you out on it.
Good try on the straw man and putting words in my mouth. You are better than that, turbozed. Once again, Stop wasting my time.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...pionships-finals-busan-2024.32987/post-445616
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/wtt-star-contender-doha-2024.32659/post-439692
We've already seen that happen many times in the Paris 2024 cycle (2021/8/15-). Ni Xia Lian, Doo Hoi Kem, Yuan Jia Nan, Szocs, Hirano, Samara, Han Ying and Kihara have all benefited from the bo5 format. The "deviation" is even more pronounced for the men. LSS scored his first win against FZD after 14 straight losses, 13 of which happened before this cycle. LSS got a total of 3 games out of the first 12 matches (10/2013-11/2019) and in this cycle he's already gotten 5 games out of 4 matches (4-12/2023). The fact that Hayata is (still) not part of that club after 2.42 years could be an indication that the way she had played thus far did not maximize her good luck, as suggested in the paper.
She finally got it. Hayata on key to beating CM - by playing disgusting table tennis, inspired by Team India.

どんな取り方でも1点は1点。中国に勝つために早田ひなが考えた「気持ち悪い卓球」とは?
https://world-tt.com/blog/news/archives/166022

At the press conference, Hayata talked about one of the reasons for her victory against Chen Meng. "You might understand if you watched (Ito) Mima from the bench, but it was a really disgusting match, just a disgusting one, not letting the opponent hit hard, and continuing to persevere was the winning table tennis today." "A disgusting match?" It was late at night, and my head was a little hazy, but I straightened up and said, "Oh, there's another Hina Quote."

...

"At the start of today's match, I felt like Chen Meng was about 3 times stronger than usual, so I thought I had no chance even if I played table tennis like before, said Hayata. It is true that Chen Meng rode on the momentum of Sun Yingsha's victory in the 1st match and hit a series of strong FHs from the get-go. It was reminiscent of her play at the Tokyo 2020 Olympics, where she won. How did you break that down?

"CNT players are not opponents you can beat by playing however you want, and if you play comfortably and let your opponent play even more comfortably, then there's no point in that. It doesn't matter how beautiful you play if you can't get points. In contrast, no matter how weird the scoring method is, if you can get one point, then it counts."

...

"I wouldn't have gotten through the Chen Meng today at all even if I played the king's way table tennis. However, if the Indian players could beat China (in the group stage of the tournament), then I wondered whether such disgusting and variable table tennis could be applied to China, and I think I was completely mesmerized.
Of course, there are times when it's better to stick with the way you want to play, and that depends on the situation of the match. Regarding the match against Chen Meng, it was a match where I made plays that were difficult for myself but also difficult for my opponent, and persevered through that."

...

"Chen Meng and Sun Yingsha have completely different playing habits. It's frustrating that the match ended without my getting used to the way Sun Yingsha played today. Because I had no prior experience defeating a CNT player in team competitions up until now, I was not able to fully transition to the ace showdown after winning. To truly defeat Team China in the future, I will have to think about 2 matches, otherwise I won't overcome the final hurdle."

"Under that condition today, I was beaten 0-3 by Sun Yingsha. As I feel now, I think I am at a level where I am neck and neck with Chen Meng and Wang Yidi, but I feel like Sun Yingsha is already about 3 spots higher than me. There's still a lot of work that needs to be done to get there."

...

The overall record in this tournament is 8 wins and 1 loss. Although she showed great success as an ace, she also found some issues in the final ace showdown with China. "I think I have to work harder so that I can say with confidence that I'm a true ace and not feel like I can't help it because my opponent is China," said Hayata.
 
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
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Face it, zeio. No one here on TTD is buying your Hayata is dumb and should retire narrative. Perhaps you'll have more luck on Tieba.
Face it, pongfugrasshopper. Even Hayata and Ishida admit it.

What did you say about Ito being 23 only when we were arguing about whether one should play over at MyTT? I don't feel like digging it up at this point.
 
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Face it, pongfugrasshopper. Even Hayata and Ishida admit it.

What did you say about Ito being 23 only when we were arguing about whether one should play over at MyTT? I don't feel like digging it up at this point.
Although Mima is no longer at the top of the JNT, she's still good enough to beat Miu Hirano at the 2024 Singapore Smash and Bernie Szocs at the 2024 World Team Championship. Whether she decides to retire or not is up to her. I see no problem one way or the other. Her place in history is firmly cemented.
 
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Face it, zeio. No one here on TTD is buying your Hayata is dumb and should retire narrative. Perhaps you'll have more luck on Tieba.
should do a poll and see how many agrees to Ishikawa retire on TTD and now Hayata
i wonder why it is Japanese girls...
Why don't ask Europeans or other countries?
 
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is FZD already on the decline? He seems to lose to his own teammates with greater regularity
Yep
I'm going to pull a Z and say, I've been saying so for 1 to 2 years already (but I'm not going to quote my post links, as it is impossible to find them)

Even when he wins, he isn't the old FZD we know
 
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is FZD already on the decline? He seems to lose to his own teammates with greater regularity
I wouldn't say he's on a decline, He's having more wave fluctuations; crests and troughs unlike his straight line ascent up the table tennis graph in his teens and early twenties.
I think he just doesn't have anything that makes him special anymore.
 
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Face it, pongfugrasshopper. Even Hayata and Ishida admit it.

What did you say about Ito being 23 only when we were arguing about whether one should play over at MyTT? I don't feel like digging it up at this point.
Humility (partly feigned and partly motivational) is taken as literal truth. Is this the level of reasoning we are using here?
 
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I wouldn't say he's on a decline, He's having more wave fluctuations; crests and troughs unlike his straight line ascent up the table tennis graph in his teens and early twenties.
I think he just doesn't have anything that makes him special anymore.
if you not improving, its then declining, because other people are supposedly improving.

he is 27 years old now... he has been holding the top 1 and 2 spot for over 10 years already and if I recall, top 10 spot from as young as 16 or 15. He is one of those that started at a "very early age".
maybe not declining, but he has hit a wall and if he or his body can't overcome it, then he will just have more losses, and then maybe, loose that chance for olympic medal or spot (for LA)
 
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
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So the Harimoto family is the only ones taking on China
There must be something in the genes

at QF, it is mostly Japanese players, 5 of them and one each of Korea, Taiwan, Sweden, Puerto Rico
Just to give you a nudge that my ignore list has no room for your name.

2014/11/13
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/foru...5&PID=1401286&title=2014-swedish-open#1401286
The Japanese are well aware of that. They now have experts formulating specific training regimens and diet plans for their players to close that gap. Nonetheless, Ishikawa has said that the job of beating the Chinese is nigh impossible for her and that they have their sights set on the future generation, namely Miu Hirano and Mima Ito. They also plan to resort to naturalized Chinese citizens, among them are 11-year-old Tomokazu Harimoto, 13-year-old Yu Kayama, 16-year-old Yui Hamamoto, whose parents were once CNT players.

2016/7/5
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/foru...1&PID=1441511&title=harimoto-tomokazu#1441511
NextLevel said:
zeio said:
I'm eager to find out whether it is the blood flowing in his body or the environment he grows in that matters.
Why not, as always, the combination?
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/foru...1&PID=1441512&title=harimoto-tomokazu#1441512
Because of his circumstances.

He is technically a 2nd generation Japanese-born Chinese. If he turns out to be like his many other Japanese predecessors who peaked early and hit a wall, then there is a good chance it has to do with the latter and not the former.

2018/2/18
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/foru...na-will-remain-dominantenglish-subbed#1468196
Fulanodetal said:
Mario Amizic is wrong.
He didn't consider the factor that he's Chinese.

Well, I've put forth the question a month ahead of Rio, five months before he stormed the scene by his roars. LGL wonders about that, too.

It's fun to look back on people's opinions.
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/foru...na-will-remain-dominantenglish-subbed#1468199
I should expand on Harimoto's ethnicity. No, it doesn't have anything to do with who he is playing for now. It's something else.

On one Chinese forum, there is a Chinese coach who has been stationed in Japan for years. Over the years, the one thing he stresses the most is that in Japan many junior high students with exceptional physical traits either pick or more often than not get recruited by the popular sports clubs.

Those who pick up table tennis are like leftovers, for lack of a better word. Miyazaki openly admits that their players are at a disadvantage when it comes to height and size, when compared to those from China and Europe. This is a problem that they have faced for years. The difference really shows up once their players reach the end of puberty. That should begin to change now after the JNT gained so much social status at the Rio Olympics. It will take several years for results to show.

Another thing is that they don't allow their players to ease off on higher education, unlike most if not all of their counterparts from China who choose to focus purely on TT around junior high. On the upside, Japanese players are better equipped after they retire, where they could choose something else for their second career. The flip side means you keep losing valuable talents with the know-hows and years of experience that could be better utilized in cultivating future prospects. And with the T-league, the JTTA appear to have chosen to remedy that once and for all.

That's what makes Harimoto the curve-breaker here. His heritage, be it ethnicity or former pro players as parents and coaches, gives him an edge that is not enjoyed by many others. Coupled with the environment in Japan at a time where youngsters are encouraged to gain international exposure is something even the CTTA now acknowledge in face of the World Ranking reform. Through his dad's connection, Harimoto got the chance to train with the provincial players in his dad's hometown Sichuan. His dad even commented that spending a month in China is comparable to a year in Japan. He is enjoying the best of both worlds. I wrote this before - he is doing the right thing in the right place at the right time. I wonder if Amizic even considered all that.
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/foru...na-will-remain-dominantenglish-subbed#1468201
FZD played his 1st WTTC in 2013, at 16. That's still a 2 full years senior of Harimoto.

His mom told the media that she never expected him to become a pro. They wanted him to live a normal life. They thought China was the way to go pro. They knew if you didn't become World Champ in China, you d be considered a failure. They thought what would a Japanese Champion make any difference? So, they never got their hopes up. Who knew he would ve become the curve-breaker he is today?
 
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Sorry is Zeio suggesting that ML isn't the goat because he was negative against one player in H2H in world tours.

This is despite being H2H ahead of him overall taking into account CTTSL and internal tournaments?

There is something to be said for winning key matches and events where the pressure is higher, so no not just world tours, World Championship matches, 3 times in a row, and only started winning after that player retired. But your view is also part of the full picture. Just as zeio's is. But let's watch how this turns into my way or the highway...
 
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Humility (partly feigned and partly motivational) is taken as literal truth. Is this the level of reasoning we are using here?
You're telling me. Is this really the level of reasoning we are using here?

Ishida even compared Hayata's clumsiness to Ito's inspiration. After Zennihon Takkyu 2024, Ishida told the media that Hayata's rapid growth in this cycle is due to her improvement in putting things into words. Compare that with Oh Kwanghun's comments about Ito and Hirano back in 5/2017.

女子卓球の選考レースは独走状態…東京五輪で“補欠だった”早田ひな(22歳)はいかに覚醒したのか? コーチが明かす「不器用だけど我慢強い」素顔
https://number.bunshun.jp/articles/-/857807?page=2
コーチが明かす早田の素顔「器用ではない。けど…」

 国際大会に行くと、ダブルスでペアを組む伊藤との練習でも力をつけた。石田コーチによると、早田は「グッと我慢する部分がある」タイプで、伊藤はひらめきがあるタイプ。伊藤のひらめきについていくうちに「アウトプットするスピードが上がり、対応力がついた」と石田コーチは語っていた。

 10代の頃は勝ちたい気持ちで前のめりになり、得意の強打を連発するなど攻撃が単調になることもあったというが、石田コーチはあえて小さくまとめる指導をせず、長所に制限をつけなかった。「ひなの強みは中国選手にも対抗できるほどのバズーカ砲。たとえ試合に負けても、パワフルなプレーはいずれ中国選手を倒していくために消してはいけない」と、長所を磨き続ける方向性を貫いた。

 20年1月の全日本選手権では、「勝ちたい、勝ちたい、となった時にバズーカを撃ちたくなる。その気持ちをグッと抑え込み、コントロールができるようになった。器用な選手ではないので、ゆっくりですけど、ちょっとずつ上げてきた」(石田コーチ)ことが女子シングルス初優勝につながった。

【卓球】早田ひな 石田コーチが明かす急成長の要因…プレー以外で向上した〝能力〟とは
https://www.tokyo-sports.co.jp/articles/-/290396
 東京五輪のシングルスでは補欠要員だった早田の急成長の要因には〝言語化能力の向上〟を挙げた。「中学生の頃は質問に対して、ひながしゃべりだしたら最後どこに着地するんだろう、どういう気持ちでしゃべったのかなと思うことが結構あった」。独特なセンスを持つ早田の発言の真意を、つかみかねていた部分があったという。

 それでも、同級生の伊藤美誠(スターツ)や平野美宇(木下グループ)の背中をひたむきに追いかけ、ここまで上り詰めた。「今は一つひとつのことに対して一生懸命考えて、自分で答えを出している。人として素晴らしいし、アスリートとして成長してきたと思う」と成長を実感している。

 期待されるのは、日本卓球界の悲願となる五輪シングルスでの金メダル獲得だ。「かなり高い目標で、自分もどこかで『中国には勝てないかな』と思う部分もある。だけど(2023年の)世界卓球では(中国人選手に)一度は勝った。1%でもチャンスがあるならば、全力でサポートしようという思いでチームとしてはいる」

平野美宇はなぜ強くなったのか―前・女子ジュニア日本代表監督の呉光憲が語る「平野世代」の強さの秘密
https://news.yahoo.co.jp/expert/articles/83b584a67eeba0e4526259f9523172735f3e4633
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...-race-to-tokyo-2020-singles.20935/post-297203
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/return-of-international-tt-matches.23956/post-328638
]伊藤美誠は“天才肌”、平野美宇は“努力家”

13年4月にジュニア日本代表の監督に就任した呉は、新たな才能を目の当たりにした。2000年生まれで当時中学1年生だった平野美宇、伊藤美誠、早田ひなの同級生3人だ。

「彼女たちには確かに才能がありましたし。実力は申し分ない。特に(伊藤)美誠と(平野)美宇の2人の関係には特別なものがあると感じましたよ」

そう切り出した呉が二人の長所を語り始める。

「美誠は潜在力が高く、頭のなかでシステムを構成する力、相手がどのようなシステムで出てくるのかを読む力のある選手です。加えてネットプレーとレシーブで主導権を握るのが優れています。一方、美宇は接戦になっても耐えられる体力に優れていて持久力があるのが特徴。美誠は天才肌タイプ、美宇は努力家タイプと言えます」
Ito Mima is a “genius” and Hirano Miu is a “hard worker”

Oh (Kwanghun), who was appointed as the coach of Japan's junior national team in 4/2013, witnessed the new talents firsthand. Born in 2000 and being classmates, they are Hirano Miu, Ito Mima, and Hayata Hina, who were all first year middle school students at the time.

"They certainly had talent. Their abilities were perfect. I felt that there was something special in the relationship between (Ito) Mima and (Hirano) Miu in particular."

With that in mind, Oh begins to talk about the strengths of the two.

“Mima is a player with high potential and the ability to compose systems in her head and read what kind of system the opponent will use. In addition, she is able to take the initiative with net play and receiving. On the other hand, Miu has excellent physical strength and stamina to withstand even close battles. Mima is the genius type, and Miu is the hard-worker type."
 
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ML clearly the statistical GOAT career. But peak level GOAT is arguable. Maybe Waldner for the old ball but he's got serious competition. If he maintains his level this year and wins gold, I think there's a reasonable argument that nobody's played as well with the new ball as WCQ. Seems like the level is improving each year, so the current best might really be the best ever.
 
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