WTT Champions Frankfurt 2023

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Oh, please. The first encounters between SYS and Ito/Hirano were back in 2014, FFS. They were all born in 2000. Why make age an issue? SYS won Japan Open in 2017, when she was 16.4 years old.

Before Buenos Aires 2018 (WCQ and SYS), China never cared about the Youth Olympics. They didn't send anyone for BS and Gu Yuting for GS in 2010 and only in 2014 when it was held in Nanjing they sent FZD and Liu Gaoyang (who retired in 2019).

SYS even stated in an interview with the IOC that it was her win over Hirano at Buenos Aires 2018 that got her career into motion.

https://olympics.com/zh/news/sun-yingsha-on-2018-yog-and-tokyo-2020-experience

Gu Yuting has disappeared..

 

[RGo]

The CNT must have been preparing that tournament at the OktoberFest, there is no other explanation

The Oktoberfest is mostly in September, so that must have been one hell of a month of training camp from then til now.

 

[Gtsnake]

Didn't the Chinese team have an internal competition just before this WTT? Maybe they haven't recovered from that yet.

IMO Lee Sang Su used that new snap BH to continually punish FZD which surprised or threw him off rhythm. Bernie was hitting slow spinny shots for some reason CM couldn't handle consistently. LJK just looked like he was running in 2nd gear.

Another guess is they went out for dinner and drinks the night before. They loved the Hefeweizen a little too much.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Oh, please. The first encounters between SYS and Ito/Hirano were back in 2014, FFS. They were all born in 2000. Why make age an issue? SYS won Japan Open in 2017, when she was 16.4 years old.

Before Buenos Aires 2018 (WCQ and SYS), China never cared about the Youth Olympics. They didn't send anyone for BS and Gu Yuting for GS in 2010 and only in 2014 when it was held in Nanjing they sent FZD and Liu Gaoyang (who retired in 2019).

SYS even stated in an interview with the IOC that it was her win over Hirano at Buenos Aires 2018 that got her career into motion.

https://olympics.com/zh/news/sun-yingsha-on-2018-yog-and-tokyo-2020-experience

judging by your reply, you are still clueless, go and read the post between me and Nextlevel. Unless you are derailing our (with NL) discussion to something totally different.

SYS didn't go to OG at a young age.
FZD didn't go at a young age too (despite he was ranked higher than ZJK)
Guess who went at young ages and then maybe you will understand (after you read my post about Miwa and natural aging - aka Hiyata, few times)

CNT does not have teenage superstar leaders. During their teens, those kids were still learners with big brothers or sisters ahead of them. Not JNT. So your comparison is totally beyond the point I am making. LOL

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Didn't the Chinese team have an internal competition just before this WTT? Maybe they haven't recovered from that yet.

Yes
So did Taiwan.
Both Lin and Cheng played like 10 matches in 2 days before flying to Germany.
They flew out of Taiwan on 26 Aug, and both had to play on 29 October.

This was Lin's (2nd last day) schedule with 7 matches in 8 hours.
9am MD SF
10am MD Final
11:30 XD (with Cheng) R16
12:30 XD QF
13:30 XD SF
14:30 XD Final
16:40 MS R16

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

Sadly, for Miu Hirano, with Joo Cheonhui making the QF by beating YXX, Joo pushes Hirano out of the 16th spot for the WTT Finals .

 

[NextLevel]

China is different
When your "future" world champion come on board, they are still a junior

In Japan, the kids become seniors, become all stars.

WMY and SYS was a unknown until recently to be honest.
DN and ZYL with CM hold that spot and WMY and SYS both had to wait for the "big sisters" retirements, or by beating them.

Same with CM who had DN, LSW and LXX blocking her.
and the same 3 blocking a younger ZYL too
Young DN was blocked until ZYN and WN retired and had Guo Yue and Guo Yan to handle + LSW and LXX

Sun Yingsha and Wang Manyu had more blockers yes, but Sun Yingsha was already winning ITTF Senior level events in 2017.

Sun Yingsha's sensational 2017 - International Table Tennis Federation

by Wade Townsend Back in January this year it was announced that the Chinese National Women’s Team would have two new faces. One of those faces was Sun Yingsha. Little did anyone know that soon she would shakeup the international circuit. Six months later in the Chinese National Team’s top tier...

www.ittf.com

judging by your reply, you are still clueless, go and read the post between me and Nextlevel. Unless you are derailing our (with NL) discussion to something totally different.

SYS didn't go to OG at a young age.
FZD didn't go at a young age too (despite he was ranked higher than ZJK)
Guess who went at young ages and then maybe you will understand (after you read my post about Miwa and natural aging - aka Hiyata, few times)

CNT does not have teenage superstar leaders. During their teens, those kids were still learners with big brothers or sisters ahead of them. Not JNT. So your comparison is totally beyond the point I am making. LOL

There really is no disagreement here, the point we are making is about level of play, your point is about maturity curve and leading the team. My main point is that there is really no reason Miwa can't be the best pl player in the JNT by the time she turns 18. Or even earlier. This is a very differnt question for whether she should be or whether that is a good thing. But Sun Yingsha and Wang Manyu were both already National team players close to Miwa's age, maybe held back slightly because of the amount of talent on CNT.

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

Come on LYJ. You got this.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

The Oktoberfest is mostly in September, so that must have been one hell of a month of training camp from then til now.

why don't Germans call it SeptemberFest then ? I thought they were the most rational people on this planet

 

[JeffM]

Felix vs Dang will be a battle of who is the best non-Chinese penholder! (excluding WCT)

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

Sadly, for Miu Hirano, with Joo Cheonhui making the QF by beating YXX, Joo pushes Hirano out of the 16th spot for the WTT Finals .

I might be wrong about this. Although Joo definitely leapfrogs Miu Hirano, YXX has 280 expiring points on Nov 7 so even though she did better than Hirano here, I think Hirano retains the final spot. Saved by expiring points.

 

[zeio]

Gu Yuting has disappeared..

She retired as well in 2021.

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/foru...cnt-players-retire-from-national-team#1119059

 

[RGo]

why don't Germans call it SeptemberFest then ? I thought they were the most rational people on this planet

Because it ends on the first weekend in October.

 

[NextLevel]

I might be wrong about this. Although Joo definitely leapfrogs Miu Hirano, YXX has 280 expiring points on Nov 7 so even though she did better than Hirano here, I think Hirano retains the final spot. Saved by expiring points.

It should be purely in in-year performance on WTT events driving this.

 

[zeio]

Sun Yingsha and Wang Manyu had more blockers yes, but Sun Yingsha was already winning ITTF Senior level events in 2017.

Sun Yingsha's sensational 2017 - International Table Tennis Federation

by Wade Townsend Back in January this year it was announced that the Chinese National Women’s Team would have two new faces. One of those faces was Sun Yingsha. Little did anyone know that soon she would shakeup the international circuit. Six months later in the Chinese National Team’s top tier...

www.ittf.com

There really is no disagreement here, the point we are making is about level of play, your point is about maturity curve and leading the team. My main point is that there is really no reason Miwa can't be the best pl player in the JNT by the time she turns 18. Or even earlier. This is a very differnt question for whether she should be or whether that is a good thing. But Sun Yingsha and Wang Manyu were both already National team players close to Miwa's age, maybe held back slightly because of the amount of talent on CNT.

In SYS's profile for WTTC 2019, TV Tokyo gives a very apt description of her rise. The key here is she was chosen over ZYL. Tieba users think LSW should be grateful to Ito, otherwise LSW would've been the 5th seed at WTTC 2019.

If it were not for Hirano and Ito (and perhaps Hayata as LGL said they also prepared for the reserve player, with WMY selected in response), Tokyo 2020 would've come down to DN, LSW and ZYL. CM would've been lucky to go as the reserve player. Hirano and Ito singlehandedly broke the CNT's tradition that the World Champions in that cycle would always go to the Olympics.

https://www.tv-tokyo.co.jp/tabletennis/news/2019/04/003993.html

【プロフィール】
世界卓球2019ハンガリーで初代表となった中国期待の若手で、日本の黄金世代トリオと同じ年の18歳。

2017年のワールドツアー・ジャパンオープンでは、16歳にしてツアー初出場・初優勝という衝撃のデビューを果たし、続く中国オープンも劉詩雯をストレートで下して、決勝で丁寧に敗れるも準優勝。世界ランキングも圏外から一気に10位にランクインした。

2017年のアジアジュニアで4冠、世界ジュニアでも3冠を達成し、2018年のユース五輪でも平野美宇との接戦を制して、団体とシングルスで優勝。同世代では頭ひとつ抜けた実力を持っている。

その後は、大きなタイトルには恵まれていなかったが、世界卓球2019ハンガリーの中国代表第一次選考会では15勝0敗の1位通過を果たすと、上位陣を加えた最終選考会も8勝3敗の2位で代表権を獲得。この時点でシングルスのエントリーは未定だったが、結果的には世界ランキング2位の朱雨玲が外れ、孫穎莎のシングルスエントリーが決まった。怖いものなしの新星が今大会の台風の目となる可能性は十分にある。

【Profile】
A promising young player from China who will represent her country in Hungary for the first time at the WTTC 2019, and is 18 years old, the same age as Japan's trio of golden generation.

At the 2017 World Tour Japan Open, she made a shocking debut at the age of 16, competing for the first time on the tour and winning for the first time. At the following China Open, she defeated Liu Shiwen in straight games, and although she was defeated by Ding Ning in the final, she came in runner-up. She also jumped from being unranked to 10th place in the world ranking.

She won 4 titles at the 2017 Asian Junior Championships and 3 titles at the World Junior Championships, and won the team and singles titles at the 2018 Youth Olympics, winning a close battle with Miu Hirano. She has an ability that stands out among her peers.

After that, she was not blessed with any major titles, but in the first selection for the WTTC 2019 Hungary, she finished first place with a record of 15 wins and 0 losses. She won the right to represent the team in 2nd place with 8 wins and 3 losses. At this point, the singles entry was undecided, but in the end, Zhu Yuling, who is ranked 2nd in the world, was eliminated and Sun Yingsha's singles entry was decided. There is a good chance that the fearless rising star will be the eye of the typhoon in this tournament.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Sun Yingsha and Wang Manyu had more blockers yes, but Sun Yingsha was already winning ITTF Senior level events in 2017.

Sun Yingsha's sensational 2017 - International Table Tennis Federation

by Wade Townsend Back in January this year it was announced that the Chinese National Women’s Team would have two new faces. One of those faces was Sun Yingsha. Little did anyone know that soon she would shakeup the international circuit. Six months later in the Chinese National Team’s top tier...

www.ittf.com

There really is no disagreement here, the point we are making is about level of play, your point is about maturity curve and leading the team. My main point is that there is really no reason Miwa can't be the best pl player in the JNT by the time she turns 18. Or even earlier. This is a very differnt question for whether she should be or whether that is a good thing. But Sun Yingsha and Wang Manyu were both already National team players close to Miwa's age, maybe held back slightly because of the amount of talent on CNT.

Yes, that is more around age of 17.
OG for SYS was around age of (if in 2020), 20.

Again, this is way later than Ai's first OG at 15 and any of the JNT kids who are carrying the weight of the entire nation.
CNT cannot be compared to JNT as CNT did not have the same problem of teenage captain, senior players.

As I said, Miwa would probably be better off to be like a Hiyata and age naturally (and that is all I am saying, I didn't talk about level of play, or potential).

Ma Long if I recall was 13 when he went into CNT A team. You don't really hear of him until way older but HT was already in the spot light (maybe CNT just protects their players better).
Miwa is slowly becoming just like his brother and the other girls who was the best in a country while being a kid. I really hope I am wrong about Miwa, but too many examples has surfaced already. I think Japan has some interesting challenge ahead.

Maybe Hayata can continue blocking off Miwa, and one of the other 23 year old, "10 year pro" can hold off Miwa until she turns 18... it could just be good for her.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Chinese player at WTT Frankfurt

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Chinese player at WTT Frankfurt

well, there is still a high chance they will walk away with 2 golds

 

[NextLevel]

Yes, that is more around age of 17.
OG for SYS was around age of (if in 2020), 20.

Again, this is way later than Ai's first OG at 15 and any of the JNT kids who are carrying the weight of the entire nation.
CNT cannot be compared to JNT as CNT did not have the same problem of teenage captain, senior players.

As I said, Miwa would probably be better off to be like a Hiyata and age naturally (and that is all I am saying, I didn't talk about level of play, or potential).

Ma Long if I recall was 13 when he went into CNT A team. You don't really hear of him until way older but HT was already in the spot light (maybe CNT just protects their players better).
Miwa is slowly becoming just like his brother and the other girls who was the best in a country while being a kid. I really hope I am wrong about Miwa, but too many examples has surfaced already. I think Japan has some interesting challenge ahead.

Maybe Hayata can continue blocking off Miwa, and one of the other 23 year old, "10 year pro" can hold off Miwa until she turns 18... it could just be good for her.

I get your point but you make it sound like those junior stars were performing badly when for the most part, they were just unable to beat the Chinese. Miwa might be no different. Hayata's natural growth as you describe it is neither here nor there. She still hasn't achieved anything with her natural growth that Miu Hirano didnt with her unnatural growth.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I get your point but you make it sound like those junior stars were performing badly when for the most part, they were just unable to beat the Chinese. Miwa might be no different. Hayata's natural growth as you describe it is neither here nor there. She still hasn't achieved anything with her natural growth that Miu Hirano didnt with her unnatural growth.

I didn't talk about performance.

Hayata atleast came from behind to be number 1 in Japan. She had to overcome those who block her, and with age/time, she became stronger (and taller).
Who would have thought that she could leap the rest, and who would have thought the rest couldn't continue to improve and keeping that gap.

Having seen all of them in 2016 (when they were all 16), Hiyata's training discipline and staying on to train even after the whole JNT have left, earned my respect and I always thought she was more technically complete to take over the number 1 spot.

BTW, these girls also visit few times at the base I am at now. Miu's autograph is still on the wall, and I still have one of her autographed stored----somewhere...
I will be posting Australians at the base now too.

Miu's autograph is below the right bottom part of the white calendar. dated 2018.12.8