WTT Contender Muscat-2025 - 11-17 Jan 2025

[pongfugrasshopper]

All this (mis)quoting and still not a proper counter-argument on why Mizutani started his response with "This may be a bit harsh, but I think it's the bare minimum. Hayata's victory in the WS QF against WYD, who was ranked 3rd in the world (then/now) and is essentially China's 4th-ranked player, gave the impression that she had "reached the bare minimum."

Same with Harimoto who started his response with "I may beat 1 Chinese player and finish top 4, but I haven't made it all the way to the end. Even among the women, it's amazing that Hayata-san (Hina Hayata/Nippon Life Insurance Company) defeated Wang Yidi (China), but there is Sun Yingsha (China), and after that, Chen Meng (China) is waiting, so there are 3 walls."

I was responding to your comment "Even they don't give much weight to medals won against WYD.". Forum members can click on *your links* which is what I quoted and decide for themselves if your narrative rings true or false to them.

The fact that you most likely have to go through at least 2 CNT members to win a major title does not take away from what Hayata did. She saved *NINE* match points in game 7 of the 2023 WTTC WS to secure a medal against the 4th best CNT player at the time. Sure WYD probably lost some confidence from losing to Hayata at such a high profile tournament and had suffered some losses after that, but at the time of 2023 World Championships, she was an extremely formidable opponent.

 

[Brs]

Hayata is the most accomplished Japanese singles table tennis player of her generation.

 

[blahness]

Wow, this was Chen Yuanyu’s tournament. Incredible performance beating all the players he did, especially Harimoto who just won Star Contender Doha

He was always kinda second after Lin Shidong. He has a really good FH attack, a bit reminiscent of Ma Long especially with the great FH flicks and loop placement and the disciplined/compact strokes with both spin and power. His BH is definitely not up to LSD standard (when LSD BH is on he is almost unplayable) but still it is quite good and way better than Xiang Peng's BH.

But tbh Harimoto played a little weird this time... he didn't really chiquita much for some unknown reason - he kept doing FH receives and FH pushes which is not really his best receive game at all.

 

[NextLevel]

View attachment 34269

Chat GPT hallucinated, but my statement is very specific to singles. If you actually list out the medals, you will see that Hayata has a lot of Asian medals that Ito doesn't (Hirano does, even if Hirano"s difficulty was much higher), a World Championships bronze that Ito doesn't (Hirano does), and a bronze that Ito does (Hirano doesn't). If one wants to count tour events and national champs then that is where Ito has an edge but I didn't go that deep partly because playing those events increasingly had a rankings bias as WTT took over. And I have nothing against Ito or Hirano. It's just that we have someone who would have us believe that Hayata is dumb for not doing things that no one else has been able to do and then defining the problems in ways that Hayata looks bad without the perspective of what others with similar opportunities did.

 

[Dr Evil]

Didn't expect that Harimoto result, but still a good start to the year for him. Chen's forehand does have some Ma Long quality. He can hold the ball an extra beat and wait for his opponent to move. Even with late timing he can generate a lot of power. Rare to see Harimoto locked up with elbow shots so often.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

View attachment 34269

ittf world tour events?
you need to ask your ai friend, what date is the database they are using, haha

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Chat GPT hallucinated, but my statement is very specific to singles. If you actually list out the medals, you will see that Hayata has a lot of Asian medals that Ito doesn't (Hirano does, even if Hirano"s difficulty was much higher), a World Championships bronze that Ito doesn't (Hirano does), and a bronze that Ito does (Hirano doesn't). If one wants to count tour events and national champs then that is where Ito has an edge but I didn't go that deep partly because playing those events increasingly had a rankings bias as WTT took over. And I have nothing against Ito or Hirano. It's just that we have someone who would have us believe that Hayata is dumb for not doing things that no one else has been able to do and then defining the problems in ways that Hayata looks bad without the perspective of what others with similar opportunities did.

no matter what, Ito, Hirano and Hayata are all top 10 players and that itself is a damn good accolade.
no matter if it is teiba users or teiba users on ttd, they all really need to give credit where due and stop being china only attitude on all matters.

I have seen the same nonsense since Ishikawa was in her peak and it is really laughable.
All these armchair critics only talk about no 1, or beating no 1 or 2, or 3 or 4, and when that happens, then there is some excuse or whatever.

I want to see what success these critics have in there own line of expertise/career, otherwise, they just some sad soul hiding behind a computer screen belittling actual pros that are extremely successful in there trade. Cyber bullying is probably a fair term here and the behavior over a lengthy period is problem an illness on its own.

also, I need to note, Japanese has a culture of talking humbly during interviews.
Do not take those humbleness as a sign of weakness, but it needs to be taken as a sign of respect.

 

[zeio]

Stop speaking to yourself. No one has said that only beating China matters because losing to anyone else has consequences. Hayata is the most accomplished Japanese singles table tennis player of her generation. Yet you hold up someone far less accomplished as the person to be respected. So again, can you confirm that for you, only beating China matters? And that because of that, it makes sense to denigrate someone who won the medal even when injured over someone who could not beat a non-Chinese opponent to get into the medal round?

That's my line. Stop wasting my time.

Mizutani and Hirano Sayaka spent an entire episode of Table Tennis Japan (aired on 2024/5/18) explaining 3 major points that Hayata should heed in order to defeat SYS.

【卓球ジャパン！見どころ】早田ひな！打倒・孫穎莎へ！平野早矢香が3大提言！｜5月18日（土）夜10時30分放送
([Table Tennis Japan! Highlights] Hayata Hina! Toward defeating Son Eisa! Hirano Sayaka's 3 major proposals! | Broadcast on May 18th (Sat) at 10:30 pm)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmXmo4dGrCA

【攻略へのポイント】早田ひな 打倒・孫穎莎 ①レシーブで勝負、②ミドルからフォア、③バックハンドに変化を｜卓球ジャパン！
([Key points for winning] Hayata Hina to defeat Son Eisa ① Win with the receive, ② Change from middle to forehand, ③ Change to backhand | Table Tennis Japan!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRBwfX-y4ns (full episode but missing the very last part, Japan's IP needed)

孫穎莎に0勝13敗の早田ひなに金言！水谷隼「僕も0勝13敗だった。相手はプレースタイルを変えられない」｜卓球ジャパン！
(Golden words for Hayata Hina, who has 0 wins and 13 losses against Son Eisa! Mizutani Jun: "I also had 0 wins and 13 losses. My opponent couldn't change his playing style" | Table Tennis Japan!)
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=437065489102636 (the very last part)

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=437065489102636

Despite also reaching the MS SF at ATTC 2024 (without going through a CNT player), Shinozuka specifically mentioned how significant it was to beat LJK/XYB to reach the MD SF.
【インタビュー】篠塚大登 中国選手に勝利してベスト4入り「世界ランク20位以内を目指す」｜アジア卓球選手権大会
([Interview] Shinozuka Hiroto beats Chinese player to enter top 4 "Aiming for a place within the top 20 in the world ranking" | ATTC)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIVcp8e16a0

 

[NextLevel]

That's my line. Stop wasting my time.

Mizutani and Hirano Sayaka spent an entire episode of Table Tennis Japan (aired on 2024/5/18) explaining 3 major points that Hayata should heed in order to defeat SYS.

【卓球ジャパン！見どころ】早田ひな！打倒・孫穎莎へ！平野早矢香が3大提言！｜5月18日（土）夜10時30分放送
([Table Tennis Japan! Highlights] Hayata Hina! Toward defeating Son Eisa! Hirano Sayaka's 3 major proposals! | Broadcast on May 18th (Sat) at 10:30 pm)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmXmo4dGrCA

【攻略へのポイント】早田ひな 打倒・孫穎莎 ①レシーブで勝負、②ミドルからフォア、③バックハンドに変化を｜卓球ジャパン！
([Key points for winning] Hayata Hina to defeat Son Eisa ① Win with the receive, ② Change from middle to forehand, ③ Change to backhand | Table Tennis Japan!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRBwfX-y4ns (full episode but missing the very last part, Japan's IP needed)

孫穎莎に0勝13敗の早田ひなに金言！水谷隼「僕も0勝13敗だった。相手はプレースタイルを変えられない」｜卓球ジャパン！
(Golden words for Hayata Hina, who has 0 wins and 13 losses against Son Eisa! Mizutani Jun: "I also had 0 wins and 13 losses. My opponent couldn't change his playing style" | Table Tennis Japan!)
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=437065489102636 (the very last part)

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=437065489102636

Despite also reaching the MS SF at ATTC 2024 (without going through a CNT player), Shinozuka specifically mentioned how significant it was to beat LJK/XYB to reach the MD SF.
【インタビュー】篠塚大登 中国選手に勝利してベスト4入り「世界ランク20位以内を目指す」｜アジア卓球選手権大会
([Interview] Shinozuka Hiroto beats Chinese player to enter top 4 "Aiming for a place within the top 20 in the world ranking" | ATTC)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIVcp8e16a0

You don't understand English. There is a difference between "beating China matters" and "only beating China matters".

 

[Brs]

zeio takes the Highlander approach to TT [and maybe to life, wdk] . There can be only one!

 

[Brs]

For me personally, at least the never-ending arguments about pro players results are more interesting than the never ending arguments about equipment.

And same as @Takkyu_wa_inochi said, I appreciate zeio's passion, efforts, and contribution. This forum would be as dead as mytt without him winding you guys up many times a day.

 

[kindof99]

For me personally, at least the never-ending arguments about pro players results are more interesting than the never ending arguments about equipment.

And same as @Takkyu_wa_inochi said, I appreciate zeio's passion, efforts, and contribution. This forum would be as dead as mytt without him winding you guys up many times a day.

I personally prefer to seeing more technical posts than arguments about how good or bad the professionals are. And to be honest, I rarely read those posts。

 

[Shine]

Yep. I actually have a solution for Harimoto - develop his own hidden serve variation by simply leaving his free arm out to hide the contact when he plays against a serve cheater like WCQ. If WCQ complains then Harimoto can make a counter complaint. Since the referees are all blind, might as well fight fire with fire.

he's still getting pummeled 4 nil anyway. WCQ outclassed him in all realms of the game last time.

 

[Shine]

Injury and sickness are the two excuses that CNT uses for manipulation quite often.

Cos their players can't get injured eh? And what's the manipulation eh? Are you the one that'd tell them which players to bring to a tournament?

 

[kindof99]

Cos their players can't get injured eh? And what's the manipulation eh? Are you the one that'd tell them which players to bring to a tournament?

Come on. Two players already arrived in the tournament city and suddenly injured just before the tournament. How often can that happen? Even CNT admits that they manipulate players all the time. Most recently, the retirements of ML, FZD, and CM?

 

[Shine]

Come on. Two players already arrived in the tournament city and suddenly injured just before the tournament. How often can that happen? Even CNT admits that they manipulate players all the time. Most recently, the retirements of ML, FZD, and CM?

Did you see them in the host city or do you have pictures of them there? And how many days before the event started were their names cancelled? These are important details that should be pored over before making assumptions.

I don't believe ML, FZD and CM were "manipulated". I believe they already knew what the deal was on joining the team, and they know what happened to the "elders" when China decided that it was their turn to take over the mantle. I can't help laughing at a member here claiming that Wang Hao was oppressed. 😂😂😂
I'm only a bit sad for Fan because he was still really young. He'd only be 31 in 2028. But even Fan can't say the team didn't help his laurels by "resting" Ma Long.
CM and ML are over thirty and know the team's culture very well. They've won everything there is to be won more or less, Stepping down for the the waves behind them was inevitable. Kuai and SXY look like they're ready to pick up the mantle. The youth has to bloom.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

Yep. I actually have a solution for Harimoto - develop his own hidden serve variation by simply leaving his free arm out to hide the contact when he plays against a serve cheater like WCQ. If WCQ complains then Harimoto can make a counter complaint. Since the referees are all blind, might as well fight fire with fire.

Well, that'll never happen because TH is actually one of the highest character guys on the tour which a lot of people might not realize due to the endless hate he gets for his antics.

 

[rpb23]

Well, that'll never happen because TH is actually one of the highest character guys on the tour which a lot of people might not realize due to the endless hate he gets for his antics.

Antics? Aside from some excessive chooing after winning a point, what other behaviors can be characterized as antics? In fact, as TH matures he has toned down the chooing a bit.

 

[rpb23]

he's still getting pummeled 4 nil anyway. WCQ outclassed him in all realms of the game last time.

When WCQ is on, he is the toughest opponent for TH. Compared to TH, WCQ simply is just as fast as TH but with higher quality forehand and backhand, better serves(though questionably hidden) and serve return, and he is lefty. TH is maybe a little better in defense with blocks which doesn't matter against much higher quality opponents like WCQ.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

Antics? Aside from some excessive chooing after winning a point, what other behaviors can be characterized as antics? In fact, as TH matures he has toned down the chooing a bit.

"Antics" was referring to his choing and the negative public perception that has come with it throughout his career, and not necessary a whole laundry list of other things.