WTT Finals Women Nagoya 2023

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TV Tokyo Promo for WTTC 2024 after Ito 3-0 Diaz:
Europa Strongest - Deutsch
3-time WTTC Gold Medalist - Sweden
Powerhouse with the Elf - Rumania
Most Intense Battle Asian Powerhouse - Hong Kong (, China)
Forever Rival - Kankoku
Strongest Milky Way Troop - Chugoku

TV Tokyo special ahead of the tournament:
Hayata
Ito
 
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But the Japanese team speak of their intentions to defeat China all the time which is totally fine, They practice for it and plan strategies around it. Why do we see their orientation as benign?? Other teams do the same without the lip service too.
Many folks in China don't get it, either. There was a Tieba thread back before ATTC 2023 and Asian Games 2022 asking about that, along with the stated goals from JPN and KOR players. Threads like that have popped up from time to time for several years now. The overall reaction toward those goals has gotten more mild now as the folks seem to become familiar with it. Many of them used to find fault with it when Hirano started winning in 2017, and Harimoto and Ito in 2018, especially after news of DN/ZYL/CM/LSW having to write reports after the ATTC 2017 were picked up by the Japanese media and TV programs. It reached a peak when Mizutani/Ito won the XD gold at Tokyo 2020. Some of that has to do with historical reasons, I've seen Tieba comments that make the connection between Hayata's date of birth and a historical event between China and Japan. But as mentioned above, the sentiment toward them has become more favorable in the past two years as Hirano and Harimoto become more mature and less bold before the majors, and a lot of them even show sympathy for Ito despite her conceit. OTOH, Hayata is far more humble and has been quite popular in China.

为什么外协总是以击败中国队员为目标? (Why do foreign associations always aim to defeat CNT players?)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8578301980

And some example threads on how JNT players are seen in China.

2019/6
人品差,即使赢了也不受待见,何况被打得披头散发。伊藤真是恶心 (With a bad character, you will not be welcomed even if you win, let alone being creamed. Ito is really disgusting)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/6150495883?pid=125916392026&cid=0#125916392026
I don't like Big Head [Ito's nickname] either, but what the original poster said about her character is still a bit up out of line. In fact, I think she is just a precocious child with a bit of temper who is not yet mentally mature. Among my students, there are many of those who are much more difficult to deal with than her, and those are not very good yet are persistent.

2023/11
平野美宇是怎么混成今天这样的 (How did Hirano Miu end up where she is today?)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8754715110
dairy 一开始实力厚度明明是跟早田在伯仲之间的

为什么现在差距越来越大
我不觉得身高臂长打法是主要原因
感觉和教练还有她自己的进取心不足有很大关系
IP属地:山东来自iPhone客户端1楼2023-11-29 21:16
She was clearly on par with Hayata in terms of depth of strength from the beginning

Why is the gap getting bigger now?
I don’t think height and long arms are the main reason
I feel it has a lot to do with the coach and her own lack of aggressiveness

dairy 伊藤可以理解,本身就是靠变化和前三板吃饭的,怕熟。而且又没有练相持的身体条件和训练条件,年纪大了反应和速度也不如以前,没有心气很正常。平野美宇的打法正常来讲应该还是很有上升空间的,正手是不行,但至少没有太大框架问题。
IP属地:山东来自iPhone客户端2楼2023-11-29 21:20
Ito is understandable, as she relies on variations and the 3rd ball to make a living, and she is afraid of familiarity. Moreover, she lacks the physical and training conditions to work on her rally. As she gets older, her reaction and speed are not as good as before. It is normal to lose spirit. Normally speaking, Hirano Miu's playing style should still have room for improvement. The forehand is not good, but at least there is no big framework problem.

多慧核桃 有啥问题吗?平野现在排名挺好的啊
IP属地:北京3楼2023-11-29 21:25
What problems? Hirano’s ranking is quite good now
dairy: 各种小赛大赛没有打到自己水平该有的位置,因为她的实力厚度应该是和早田差距不大的
2023-11-29 21:27
In various tournaments, small and big, she did not reach the position where her level should be, because her depth of strength should not be much different from Hayata

2023/12
看情况,伊藤是离开国家队无缘明年奥运会了。 (Given the situation, Ito will leave the national team and miss next year's Olympics.)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8768827207?pid=149219063345&cid=0#149219063345
不见白龙 全日锦如果平野不失心疯,就是早田平野单打,美和团体。如果伊藤支棱,平野失心疯,就是早田伊藤单打,平野团体。日乒协肯定倾向于plan a。
IP属地:上海来自iPhone客户端3楼2023-12-07 14:15
If Hirano does not lose her mind, it will be Hayata, Hirano for singles and Miwa for team. If Ito hardens up and Hirano loses her mind, it would be Hayata, Ito for singles and Hirano for team. The JTTA is definitely leaning toward plan a.

伊藤都要哭了,让她亚运时闹。巴黎估计去不了。 (Ito almost cried, but she has herself to blame for throwing fits ahead of Asian Games. Probably won’t be able to go to Paris.)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8797359117?pid=149341445765&cid=0#149341445765
狂飚强 伊藤太心高气傲,以为拿了个奥运混双金牌所有人都得捧着她,比赛想打就打,不想打就自己闭门造车,亚运不给她单打机会索性就放弃团体,一点团队精神都没有,自己打不好就怪场外教练指导不好,输球了老是给自己找各种理由,还老是幻想自己能拿冠军,有点妄想症,跟日本乒协早就闹僵了,没啥成绩慢慢估计就被放弃了
IP属地:北京来自Android客户端18楼2023-12-17 10:38
Ito is too arrogant, thinking that after winning an Olympic mixed doubles gold medal, everyone has to prop her up. Playing whenever she wants to, and if she doesn't, she practices behind closed doors. Not giving her a chance to play singles at Asian Games, she simply ditched the team event. There is no team spirit at all. Blame the courtside coaching for her poor performance. When losing, always find various excuses for herself. And always fantasize that she can become the champion. She is a bit delusional. She has long been at odds with the JTTA. Without results, she will probably be cast away gradually.

张本打疯了 (Harimoto played out of his mind)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8779411718

日本是怎么输给韩国的 哪几个人丢了分 (How did Japan lose to South Korea? Who dropped the points?)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8782016515

【伊藤】是真的真的可以正式宣告落幕了 ([Ito] Can really truly officially announce that the curtain falls)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8797548928

有生之年伊藤还有赢国乒主力的可能吗? (Is it still possible for Ito to defeat the main force of CNT in her life?)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8797714319
 
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Chen Xingtong got caught playing on her phone during break.

She broke a rule set in professional table tennis matches. It says none of the coaches or players were allowed on any digital devices during the entire match.

The CNT is contemplating a punishment for that.
US$1000 fine on WTT's end. CXT will still come out of this with US$24000 minus tax.

https://wttwebcmsprod.blob.core.windows.net/technicaldocuments/WTT_Series & Feeder_Handbook_2023.pdf
4.2.1.1 Dress

...

i) Personal Equipment
i) Accessories shall consist of player’s towel, compression clothes, arm sleeves, legs sleeves,
knee straps or braces, kinesiology tapes, socks, shoes, bandana, headband, wristband, and
eyewear. Players may not use any phone, iPad, laptops or any other PDA in the field of play before
or during matches.

...

k) Violations/Fines - Any player who violates this Rule and is not defaulted shall be subject to a fine
of USD $1,000.
l) The WTT Event Manager or the WTT Event Supervisor shall decide on appropriate sanctions for
offences reported by the Referee of an event within fourteen (14) days of the end of the Event.
m) Any player found to have committed an offence under this Rule 4.2.1.1 may petition WTT for
discretionary review. This written petition shall detail the basis for the review.
 
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If that's the case, what would your explanation be for all CNT opponents seemingly deciding on their own to 'step it down' in crucial moments? Why change anything if it was working perfectly fine before the time out or costume change of the CNT player?

Honestly, if the CNT did find some sort of secret sauce for turning up their consistency and gameplay in crucial moments, I don't think they'd be sharing it with the rest of the world. Better off to let everyone think the other player is just mentally weak and making mistakes. But it happens so often now that I'm less inclined to believe that's the only explanation. On the other hand, I generally don't believe that you can keep training secrets in this day and age, so I don't fully believe in cheat code tactics either.
From past interviews of coaches and players, it seems to be the other way around where the CNT opponents have to step it up and risk losing control after a run of points.

Murakami, former women's team headcoach, touched on what JNT players have to do against CNT players who don't make unforced errors in one episode of Takkyu Japan.

Hirano talked about why she made errors in the final game after 3-4 CM at WTTC 2021.

Harimoto also explained why he couldn't get the last 2 points and pointed out how CNT players would take the plunge at 9:9 and yet he would make small errors. He went into detail why he missed that FH (some of it has to do with H3) on LJK's loose push at 9:8 of G5 in WTTC 2023. He says he would've expected that receive from CCY or Bobocica but not LJK, but OTOH it was him who made the mistake of receiving with high quality chiquita after receiving with dead pushes until then and that loose push seemed like a chance ball only if it was made by any other player but not by LJK.

For CNT players, it comes down to the following keywords: 想赢怕输/desire for victory but fear of defeat, 基本功/fundamentals, and "特长突出,技术全面,无明显漏洞"/"outstanding specialties, comprehensive techniques, without obvious loopholes" as raised by Cai Zhenhua on the Chinese shakehand style.

https://youtu.be/0VSZP_3BRJI?t=618

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/return-of-international-tt-matches.23956/post-329999
CNT players don't make unforced errors
Bs7MDi3.jpg


A critical hit is necessary
O1obvgJ.jpg


Speed, spin, course, inside-out above that of the CNT players
rUo50ek.jpg


It is necessary to polish the critical hit
7m57IGt.jpg

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/foru...&title=2021-wttc-houston-usa-nov-2329#1120707
Hirano's comment

Impressions after the match
I was leading the 1st and 4th games, and if I could win either, I wondered if I could have won with a game count of 3-1, so I wanted to become a player who could finish there.

On measures for Chinese players
I have reviewed a lot of old matches. While I played well in the second half, in the first half I was swayed by the opponent's serve and trailed 0-3 before I could get my game going. So today I focused on receiving in the first half.

On the 7th game
In the 7th game, I often rushed and made mistakes, so that was also the good point of the opponent, and I learned what I could have done better(I think).

...

On gamepoints in the 1st and 4th games
It was a chance ball, and I missed by rushing a bit too much, so I think it would have been better if I had made those points.

...

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/foru...2&title=the-end-of-the-harimoto-dream#1143062
...

In part 2, he talks about the reason LJK could get a medal and he could not.
In part 3, he talks about LJK being able to serve a float in that situation.

...

張本智和インタビュー 世界卓球2023ダーバンを振り返る②
https://www.butterfly.co.jp/takurepo/interview/detail/022665.html
張本智和インタビュー 世界卓球2023ダーバンを振り返る③
https://www.butterfly.co.jp/takurepo/interview/detail/022666.html

刘国梁点评三虎将 马龙心重王皓稳当继科霸气
http://news.cntv.cn/20120601/114305.shtml
刘国梁心忧奥运会新规则 点名表扬张继科状态好
https://sports.sohu.com/20120601/n344621497.shtml
刘国梁直言闫安学费交的贵 马龙不定世锦赛目标
https://sports.sohu.com/20130304/n367682424.shtml
[推荐]横拍进攻型打法之我见(蔡振华)
http://www.cnpingpang.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=112290
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/fh-sideswipe-fade.31759/post-420388
 
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For CNT players, it comes down to the following keywords: 想赢怕输/desire for victory but fear of defeat, 基本功/fundamentals, and "特长突出,技术全面,无明显漏洞"/"outstanding specialties, comprehensive techniques, without obvious loopholes" as raised by Cai Zhenhua on the Chinese shakehand style.
words to live by indeed
 
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In his column, KONNO Noboru writes that this WTT Finals (estimated costs = 300-320 million yens) were held on 100% Chinese capital (practically all WTT events, well, the whole structure is supported by China), with the JTTA NOT spending a single yen and over 30 personnel sent straight from WTT headquarters to help get stuff done. I get why CTTA didn't take it well when JTTA didn't send a team to XTWC 2023 initially.

ジャパンオープンは復活しない。日本でのWTT開催で見えたもの
https://world-tt.com/blog/news/archives/143416
 
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Jiji has more to report on Hayata's match with CM and Harimoto's match with SYS.

Hayata says that she felt the match was 1 on 1 until G3 but starting with G4, it felt like she was up against the bench and a 3rd player. She also looks back on past experience where the tide turned and will take that into account in her preparations for the Olympics.

Harimoto says that her skill was inferior in every aspect when she raised the gear, saying how she couldn't land what she could after the 3:0 lead in G5.

早田ひなと張本美和がタイムの後に見た中国の壁〔WTTファイナルズ〕
https://www.jiji.com/jc/article?k=2023121800844
 早田は「(第3ゲームまでは)1対1で試合をしている感じだったけど、(第4ゲーム以降は)ベンチや第三者としている感じだった」という。

...

 着替えタイムも、中国側に心理戦の意図があったかどうかは別に、「そういうのも頭に入れて試合をしなければ。雰囲気や流れも変わるので」と受け止める。11月の国際大会では相手の王曼イク(日の下に立)が試合中に膝を痛めて中断した。19年世界選手権女子ダブルス決勝では、判定のトラブルで優勢な流れが変わった経験もある。「五輪は何が起きるか分からない」と、不測の事態への対応も準備のメニューに入った。

...

 張本は「(ギアを)上げてきた時、一つ一つの技術が浅かったなと。最終ゲーム3-0の後、さっきまで入っていたのが入らなくなったりして」と振り返った。

 精神面の反省も挙げた。「最初から強気でいったけど、タイム後に相手の質が高くなって、攻めてくる姿勢をより感じて、ちょっと焦りというか、どうしようってなってしまった部分が一瞬でもあった」

 それにしても、WTTファイナルズの舞台で孫穎莎とここまで戦えることが、もう驚きではない。今後は国内外で相手が向かってくる立場にもなるが、張本は「やっぱり日本のトップにも海外のトップにも自分が向かっていくことがほとんど」と言った後で、こう続けた。

 「ずっと向かっているだけだと、強い選手に勝ちにいけない部分もあります。そういう時は、自分は相手より強いんだと自分を奮い立たせる部分もあるので」
 
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In his column, KONNO Noboru writes that this WTT Finals (estimated costs = 300-320 million yens) were held on 100% Chinese capital (practically all WTT events, well, the whole structure is supported by China), with the JTTA NOT spending a single yen and over 30 personnel sent straight from WTT headquarters to help get stuff done. I get why CTTA didn't take it well when JTTA didn't send a team to XTWC 2023 initially.

ジャパンオープンは復活しない。日本でのWTT開催で見えたもの
https://world-tt.com/blog/news/archives/143416
I mean looking at things from the outside, one would've thought that the Jtta was handling things. Not knowing it's the CTTA making sure this sport doesn't collapse. Hayata and Hina are not enough to inspire Japan to host events?? The announcement was done shortly after the Worlds with all the euphoria in Japan from Hina's heroics, so I came up with the conclusion that it was fully Japan's initiative.

Most of the malaise and rot in this sport is from the apathy & lackadaisical attitude that the so-called "developed" countries have to TT. People will rather moan about the excesses of those putting in the work rather than berating their rich member associations that are not doing anything. I wonder what happens if tomorrow China has a recession, Is that all for the sport??
 
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In hindsight, the fact it was hosted in Nagoya for a first-ever WTT event (and women only) in Japan and LGL attending in person already made it crystal clear.

https://mao.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/pingpong/1702954586/
0234名無しQ(・∀・)ノ゜サァン!!
2023/12/24(日) 11:06:15.71ID:wc28m8IE
協会がまったく関わっておらずお金出してないという事実が分かってしまったWTT名古屋
その運営演出の方がはるかに上手かったと観客に言われてる現実は辛いな
It's revealed that the association was not involved at all and did not pay any money for WTT Nagoya
It's painful to know that the audience is saying that the management and production were much better
 
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The problem isn't JTTA or Japan, but WTT
WTT is CTTA and the VIP passes are mostly Chinese corporate.
No matter if it is in Asia, or Europe, Chinese money is funding it from sponsors to expensive ticket sales.
Its basically Chinese run for Chinese audience and if you remove the Chinese aspect, WTT is broke.

Many months ago (or was it last year) I stated that I heard that many countries are refusing to host WTT events.
and now Japan and Germany have finally hosted. Now news comes out that CTTA paid for Japan.
I wonder if they did the same for Germany.

so USD2.2m to host WTT Japan
Prize money is only 323k
I wonder where the other 1.9m is spent
 
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On the two days I was in Frankfurt I noticed that a lot of the VIP seats were purchased by Chinese fans (and when the Chinese players were done on Wednesday they were too).
yeah, CNT does bring a lot of fans with them, but when there are no CNT matches, there isn't much spectators too.
Its been like this for a long time.

Its unlike football worldcup, where people buy the match tickets - not knowing who will play and its cool to watch other countries in action too, since you there for the wc vibe and to witness your team is a bonus (of course you have those that follows teams only, but many are there for the vibe too)
 
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yep i attended the event, and in session 1 i was seated near a young HK girl (with her mom ?). She told me she was a huge fan of TT although she didn't play at all. she was sitting in a VIP seat in session 2. The Chinese crowd was much louder than the locals.
 
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The problem isn't JTTA or Japan, but WTT
WTT is CTTA and the VIP passes are mostly Chinese corporate.
No matter if it is in Asia, or Europe, Chinese money is funding it from sponsors to expensive ticket sales.
Its basically Chinese run for Chinese audience and if you remove the Chinese aspect, WTT is broke.

Many months ago (or was it last year) I stated that I heard that many countries are refusing to host WTT events.
and now Japan and Germany have finally hosted. Now news comes out that CTTA paid for Japan.
I wonder if they did the same for Germany.

so USD2.2m to host WTT Japan
Prize money is only 323k
I wonder where the other 1.9m is spent
Isn't WTT merely a subdivision of ITTF; ITTF is still in the nexus of control and they've only ceded the "commercialisation" rights. Whenever I see articles of WTT carrying it's sales pitch to others; it's always Dainton and co, the usual faces that spearheaded ITTF's efforts before 2020. ITTF still retains diversity and different voices in its leadership cadre, and I expect there to be some critical feedback loop and checks and balances to prevent the institutional capture that you're alleging

Now, let's say we're gonna accept your claim hook line and sinker... Why is WTT so desperate to bring Japan on board in the last 3 years?? Many trips and entreaties to Japan, appointing a Japan manager and all that, still talking about cooperation with the JTTA is not the attitude one will expect from a dictatorial entity. It actually defers to Japan, seems to desperately need it's validation and willing to make expensive sacrifices to get it!... That's very atypical to say the least. That puts Japan in the position of control to say what it wants, cut a deal and influence proceedings.
I get that the pandemic may have been a factor that impeded many countries from gathering funds to host tourneys since the budget was likely diverted elsewhere. But we're roughly a year post pandemic already ( iykwim)
So what's Japan's endgame in all of this exactly?? If WTT is really China's, Japanese athletes can boycott events, and report to an appellate body, there's always that option.
I do acknowledge that WTT in some cases can be biased in China's favor, but again this is downstream from the country having to do most of the heavy lifting. A simple cure to this is other countries pushing for electoral posts and bidding for events like Korea so that they can set standards too... I'm curious to see who's sponsoring the Champions Korea ( please Zeio we'll need your all-important help), But stubbornly insisting on doing nothing or paying for nothing is not gonna help Japan's voice at the top level. That'll be leaving their fate to "hostile" hands. The developed countries can right this sport easily if they get their acts together... Or maybe I'm just thinking too much.
 
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Not much on WTT CS Incheon 2023 for the time being. However, KTTA has been much more enthusiastic than JTTA and DTTB.

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/2023_52_SEN_MS.html
MS
CHN 46 players
KOR 41
IND 39
FRA 38
BRA 30
TPE 28
JPN 27
GER 25
NGR 25
ITA 20
IRI 19
CZE 19
EGY 17
KAZ 16
AUT 16
THA 16
HKG 14
ROU 14
POL 14
SWE 13
POR 13
USA 12
AUS 11
SGP 11
ENG 10
CRO 10
BEL 10
SVK 10
HUN 10
PUR 10
SLO 8
DEN 6
CAN 6
LUX 3

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/2023_52_SEN_WS.html
WS
CHN 48
KOR 34
IND 32
TPE 26
JPN 24
FRA 23
GER 21
EGY 19
THA 16
BRA 15
POL 15
ROU 14
HKG 14
NGR 14
CZE 13
KAZ 13
SWE 12
HUN 11
PUR 10
AUS 10
USA 10
SGP 10
ITA 10
CRO 9
POR 8
SVK 8
IRI 8
SLO 7
LUX 6
ENG 6
CAN 5
BEL 5
AUT 4
DEN 0
 
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Isn't WTT merely a subdivision of ITTF; ITTF is still in the nexus of control and they've only ceded the "commercialisation" rights. Whenever I see articles of WTT carrying it's sales pitch to others; it's always Dainton and co, the usual faces that spearheaded ITTF's efforts before 2020. ITTF still retains diversity and different voices in its leadership cadre, and I expect there to be some critical feedback loop and checks and balances to prevent the institutional capture that you're alleging
I'm not really me who is the one alleging it, its pretty much industry knowledge or saying by now.
CTTA people also hold high positions in ITTF/WTT and all major sponsors are Chinese companies.
Its not only Asian federations people talking about this, but also other continents.
I've been saying it on this platform for a mere 2 years already, so this is new to this platform.

Another thing I've been saying is, its very expensive to host a WTT today and it is also more costly for players to take part. You have big TT countries late to WTT, but you can't blame covid, since they hosted other events/sporting etc in 2022 already. WTT need more countries to buy in. Its scheduling (or lack of) is a sign that it is struggling to complete the event calendar. Most national federation does a better job that WTT with scheduling so it is obvious WTT is struggling on this part.
Not to mention events just shows up or get changed/cancelled. Most of the "majors" are held in China or in Singapore (filled with Chinese vips)

WTT is a business arm of ITTF, is not just a marketing arm, but also a sales/revenue arm.
So Japan cost $2.2m, prize money is under 16%, It would be nice to see where the other 84% went exactly.

I once said, TT should alternate countries more, and China should not host any more tournaments, but hey, mixed team world cup, they only get it 5 years in a row.
What countries comes second in hosting, and by how much distance in terms of hosting WTT/ITTF events today?
 
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says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
Well-Known Member
Jan 2018
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World Table Tennis Pte. Ltd. (UEN ID 201908249E) is listed as having 7 officers as of 2023.

After crawling through the WTT official site and news, I get the following list:
Liu Guoliang, ITTF Deputy President, WTT Board Chair
Khalil Al-Mohannadi, WTT Director/WTT Managing Director
Steve (Stephen) Dainton, ITTF Group Chief Executive Officer, WTT Board Director
Stephen Duckitt, Chief Events Officer/WTT Event Strategy Director
Melissa Soobratty, Broadcast Director/WTT Senior Media Director
Joachim Davy, Content & Creative Director
Kimberly Koh Yu Han, Partnerships Director
Michael Brown, Chief Financial Officer
Srivatsan Ramasubramanian, IT Director
Blythe Fitzwiliam, Business Development Director

Matt Pound, WTT Managing Director

Oh, I see so many light-skinned Chinese and dark-skinned Chinese. My bad, they could identify themselves as Taiwanese.

https://directory.ittf.com/#/officials
https://directory.ittf.com/#/professional_staff
https://worldtabletennis.com/executiveprofiles
https://worldtabletennis.com/teamarticle?article_no=team_council
https://worldtabletennis.com/staffprofiles
 
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