Need help to sort the weight of rubbers

dangerhow · Dec 24, 2015

Hi guys,

Can you sort these rubbers from the heaviest to the lightest one ? If you have the picture of the mass of uncut rubbers, it will be awesome !

Butterfly Tenergy 80
Donic Bluefire M2
Tibhar evolution MP-P
Tibhar evolution EL-P
DHS Hurricane Neo 3 - Commercial Version
DHS Hurricane 8
Nittaku Fastarc S-1
Nittaku Fastarc P-1
Xiom Vega Pro

Right now i'm using donic bluefire M2 on BH, but I feel that Bluefire M2 is too heavy for me and it costs my stamina a lot. If you can't sort these listed rubbers, you can give me a recommendation or advice on my backhand rubber. You also can share your experience with these rubbers. Thanks.

Any comments will be appreciated

Cornel · Dec 24, 2015

The Acuda S series is definitely lighter than the Bluefire series, but they have quite a different feel.

By the way, I think getting tired in play isn't bad. If you get tired, you know that you are really practising a sport, not just sitting. If you have pain because of the weight of the racket, this is a different question. Then, you have to change your rubber. But, if stamina is the only reason, i'd better say not to change the rubber.

Rajah* · Dec 24, 2015

Tenergy fx versions are soft and light 05fx
Your no 1. Is tenergy 80?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

dangerhow · Dec 24, 2015

Rajah* said:
Tenergy fx versions are soft and light 05fx
Your no 1. Is tenergy 80?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Oh yeah sorry, I meant for Tenergy 80. Already fixed

dangerhow · Dec 24, 2015

Cornel said:
The Acuda S series is definitely lighter than the Bluefire series, but they have quite a different feel.

By the way, I think getting tired in play isn't bad. If you get tired, you know that you are really practising a sport, not just sitting. If you have pain because of the weight of the racket, this is a different question. Then, you have to change your rubber. But, if stamina is the only reason, i'd better say not to change the rubber.

Ok I see. Thanks for your thought. By the way, you are using Acuda S1 Turbo & Acuda S2. Do they have a quiet significant difference in weight ?

bobpuls · Dec 24, 2015

http://tabletennis-reviews.com/reference/rubber-sheet-mass-size-database/

Cornel · Dec 24, 2015

dangerhow said:
Ok I see. Thanks for your thought. By the way, you are using Acuda S1 Turbo & Acuda S2. Do they have a quiet significant difference in weight ?

Sorry, but I can't compare directly the S1T and the S2. My first Acuda setup was S1 FH/S2 BH, and this is the second Acuda setup. Comparing the S1 Turbo with S1, there is a difference in weight, you feel that your racket has became a little bit heavier, but it's not a catastrophic difference. Though, I think the difference between S1T and S2 in weight should be more significant, also confirmed by the link bobpuls has posted. It seems that S1T and S2 have the same sponge, so the topsheet of the S1T should be way more dense, because the difference in speed is quite significant.

By the way, thanks Bobpuls, I never knew such a great thing existed, it will definitely help me in the future!

Der_Echte · Dec 25, 2015

OOAK forum has a Rubber Mass Database that is pretty large. So does MyTT from same OP.

UpSideDownCarl · Dec 25, 2015

Simple info, if you don't want heavy rubbers take DHS H3 off your list it is crazy heavy. I have no idea about H8 but H3 is like lead. MX-P is also darn heavy. It may even be about the same weight as H3. I personally don't care much about weight.

I like my racket to be at least a little above 200 grams. One day I will actually weigh my racket. But I have a feeling it is about 210 grams. If you are strong and in shape, that little weight should not make much difference.

Der_Echte has a couple of rackets with total weights around 220 and they feel pretty darn good.

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

dangerhow · Dec 25, 2015

UpSideDownCarl said:
Simple info, if you don't want heavy rubbers take DHS H3 off your list it is crazy heavy. I have no idea about H8 but H3 is like lead. MX-P is also darn heavy. It may even be about the same weight as H3. I personally don't care much about weight.

I like my racket to be at least a little above 200 grams. One day I will actually weigh my racket. But I have a feeling it is about 210 grams. If you are strong and in shape, that little weight should not make much difference.

Der_Echte has a couple of rackets with total weights around 220 and they feel pretty darn good.

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

Actually, I also have tried my friend setup Donic Baum Esprit with H3 Neo & Tibhar evolution FX-P on it. But I feel that bat is much lighter than mine. As you know, Baum Esprit is a carbon blade and my Nittaku Barwell is an all wood blade. Does the material affect the weight of the blades ? I mean, Are an all-wood blades tends to be heavier than a carbon blades ? If yes, maybe I need to switch from all-wood to carbon blades. FYI, when i check the website, the average weight of both blades are 88 grams.

UpSideDownCarl · Dec 25, 2015

All blades, of any kind can vary in weight a considerable amount. There are Viscarias that weigh 80 grams and others that weigh 98 grams. Same blade, different weight. Regardless of whether a blade has carbon or not, at least 80 percent of the material in a blade has to be wood. Wood comes from trees. The wood was alive. Every tree is different even if it is the same kind of tree as another tree. If you take two pieces of the same kind of wood. The cut is the same size, the thickness, everything is the same size. Those two pieces of wood will not be the same weight.

So what you would have to do is weigh the two blades without the rubber on them, and see which blade weighs more.

But you should know that if you had two Barwell blades and one weighed 80 grams and the other weighed 90 grams, the 90 gram Barwell blade would always play better, feel better (well, at least 99.9999% of the time). The denser wood works better for a TT blade.

I think you should ignore the weight and just keep playing with your setup. Stuff like this is often just someone trying to find excuses for what is holding them back. TT is about technique. Train harder. Get stronger. Your blade is excellent. Your rubbers are fine.

How long have you been playing with it?

dangerhow · Dec 25, 2015

Ok I see now. I've been playing with this setup for 4 month. I shouldn't worry about my bat's weight then.

Cornel · Dec 25, 2015

dangerhow said:
Ok I see now. I've been playing with this setup for 4 month. I shouldn't worry about my bat's weight then.

That's it. I think 4 months is too little time to be ready to make a conclusion about your setup. In my opinion you have to play at least 6 months to get really used to a setup. As I said before, it isn't the case if you have pain because of the heaviness, like I had it in my wrist when I was playing a Kong Linghui Euro with S1/S2. But it seems this just isn't your situation. Just give your setup some more time, and it is quite possible that you'll change your opinion!

Best wishes and Merry Christmas to everyone here!

UpSideDownCarl · Dec 25, 2015

dangerhow said:
Ok I see now. I've been playing with this setup for 4 month. I shouldn't worry about my bat's weight then.

I actually think 4 months should usually be enough time for adjusting to something new. But I don't think that is what is going on. So, let me ask you some questions:

When you were playing with your racket for 2 months, did you think it was too heavy?

What makes you ask, after 4 months of playing with it, about weight of rubbers?

Is it that you felt someone else's racket and thought it was light and you might like something lighter?

Or has how heavy your racket is really bothered you when you play for the whole 4 months you have been using it?

Also, information that you should know:

Most pro players use blades that weigh between 90-95 grams, so, probably heavier than yours, or about the same weight as yours if your blade is over 90 grams.

Most pro players use rubbers like T05 which is heavy. Some use T05 and H3 and H3 is even heavier than T05. Some use MX-P which I actually do think is about the same weight as H3 but definitely MX-P weighs more than T05. So, with the 90+ gram blade, they are using rubbers that are heavy, not light. The extra inertia behind the ball does something worth while.

Now, those guys train enough so that they are strong enough to use a setup that is in the 200-220 gram total weight category. Perhaps you are right and you are not strong enough or don't train enough for it.

But is it that you really can't handle the weight. Or did someone or something give you the idea that your racket is too heavy?

Because, 4 months into using it, it seems a bit odd that you just started thinking about this now. If the weight was really an issue, where it would have been the biggest problem would have been for the first 2 or 3 days of using it. Not 4 months after you started using it.

Der_Echte · Dec 25, 2015

dangerhow said:
Ok I see now. I've been playing with this setup for 4 month. I shouldn't worry about my bat's weight then.

I would say yes, worry about your weight.

However, NOT about the overall weight, but HOW that weight is distributed and HOW it feels and HOW it helps you (or hurts you) to accelerate the bat and HOW it feels at impact.

Those are very important aspects (in my shytty opinion) that are very under-appreciated in popular reviews. That is why I like TTD video reviews as they talk about how a blade or rubber works in many different common match situations.

Given enough time, you will adapt your feel and touch to just about anything. However, a well constructed and designed blade will make the task soooo much easier, yet, it is an individual thing for feel as we are all different.

Cornerer · Dec 25, 2015

Coincidently I've weighted all these listed rubbers uncut (either me or my training partners bought them) and the order is as follows (heaviest to lightest):
1. H8
2. Evolution MX-P
3-4 H3/EL-P (both very close depending on which particular piece u picked for)
5. Bluefire M2
6. P-1
7. S-1
8. Vega Pro

Just like Carl said H3 is like lead and even more so for H8, and both perform pretty poorly when unboosted. The 2 Evolutions, despite having strong performance overall, is also well known among us to be at "lead" level as well.
P-1 and S-1's weight should be at reasonable range for you but they can't really spin the ball very well compare to few top rubbers (just like most nittaku rubbers do). Same goes for Vega Pro although it's got decent control and pretty light as well.

As for Acuda we don't find it able to perform as well as Bluefire especially in spin category, except for a custom ver. Acuda which few of us tested with a bat from a ~rank150 player in my country. And regarding whether you should change your BH rubber for now it's rather difficult for me to judge without detailed info so i am not commenting on it.

Sorry for bad English.

EDIT: I do think Der_Echte is very spot on regarding aspects of weight.

dangerhow · Dec 26, 2015

UpSideDownCarl said:
I actually think 4 months should usually be enough time for adjusting to something new. But I don't think that is what is going on. So, let me ask you some questions:

When you were playing with your racket for 2 months, did you think it was too heavy?

What makes you ask, after 4 months of playing with it, about weight of rubbers?

Is it that you felt someone else's racket and thought it was light and you might like something lighter?

Or has how heavy your racket is really bothered you when you play for the whole 4 months you have been using it?

Also, information that you should know:

Most pro players use blades that weigh between 90-95 grams, so, probably heavier than yours, or about the same weight as yours if your blade is over 90 grams.

Most pro players use rubbers like T05 which is heavy. Some use T05 and H3 and H3 is even heavier than T05. Some use MX-P which I actually do think is about the same weight as H3 but definitely MX-P weighs more than T05. So, with the 90+ gram blade, they are using rubbers that are heavy, not light. The extra inertia behind the ball does something worth while.

Now, those guys train enough so that they are strong enough to use a setup that is in the 200-220 gram total weight category. Perhaps you are right and you are not strong enough or don't train enough for it.

But is it that you really can't handle the weight. Or did someone or something give you the idea that your racket is too heavy?

Because, 4 months into using it, it seems a bit odd that you just started thinking about this now. If the weight was really an issue, where it would have been the biggest problem would have been for the first 2 or 3 days of using it. Not 4 months after you started using it.

Yeah, I felt that the bat is heavier since I bought it 4 month ago. The overall weight of my rubber is only 191 grams, but I feel that my BH rubber is heavier than my FH. I don't know if the difference of weight between my FH and BH rubber are too significant. In the beginning, I thought it was fine a and maybe I could adjust if I played with that new setup more frequently. But as the time went by, I feel that my BH rubber is too heavy for me to execute my backhand stroke.

dangerhow · Dec 26, 2015

Cornerer said:
Coincidently I've weighted all these listed rubbers uncut (either me or my training partners bought them) and the order is as follows (heaviest to lightest):
1. H8
2. Evolution MX-P
3-4 H3/EL-P (both very close depending on which particular piece u picked for)
5. Bluefire M2
6. P-1
7. S-1
8. Vega Pro

Just like Carl said H3 is like lead and even more so for H8, and both perform pretty poorly when unboosted. The 2 Evolutions, despite having strong performance overall, is also well known among us to be at "lead" level as well.
P-1 and S-1's weight should be at reasonable range for you but they can't really spin the ball very well compare to few top rubbers (just like most nittaku rubbers do). Same goes for Vega Pro although it's got decent control and pretty light as well.

As for Acuda we don't find it able to perform as well as Bluefire especially in spin category, except for a custom ver. Acuda which few of us tested with a bat from a ~rank150 player in my country. And regarding whether you should change your BH rubber for now it's rather difficult for me to judge without detailed info so i am not commenting on it.

Sorry for bad English.

EDIT: I do think Der_Echte is very spot on regarding aspects of weight.

Thanks a lot !! It helps a lot to get me a cue

dangerhow · Dec 26, 2015

Der_Echte said:
I would say yes, worry about your weight.

However, NOT about the overall weight, but HOW that weight is distributed and HOW it feels and HOW it helps you (or hurts you) to accelerate the bat and HOW it feels at impact.

Those are very important aspects (in my shytty opinion) that are very under-appreciated in popular reviews. That is why I like TTD video reviews as they talk about how a blade or rubber works in many different common match situations.

Given enough time, you will adapt your feel and touch to just about anything. However, a well constructed and designed blade will make the task soooo much easier, yet, it is an individual thing for feel as we are all different.

Hi thanks for your thought. By the way, can I conclude that having 200grams+ bat with a similar weight distribution on FH and BH will be feel better rather than having lighter bat with lame weight distribution ?

Can i ask about the weight of your setup as well ? Which one is heavier ? Tibhar MX-P or Nexy ELPIS ?

Der_Echte · Dec 26, 2015

MX-P is heavier by far.

I do not worry so much if one CUT rubber weighs 5 grams more than the other, you really do not feel that so much as as both rubbers are glued directly to the blade, so the distance from center (in the way you are thinking along the axis of the thickness of the blade which is 5-7 mm) - that isn't such a factor.

The thing to think about is how the weight is distributed across the bat face and handle.

Blades with too much weight towards the tip of the blade (or very little in the handle to make that kind of balance) are noticeably different (and more difficult to accelerate the bat). A SOLID filled in handle has SO MUCH better feel at impact.

The weight of my setup in my sig is around 210 grams, it varies day by day, I sweat a lot and some of it stays in grip overwrap and some stays in the blade itself and some days less. The MX-P also gasses out and you lose a little weight with time.

Need help to sort the weight of rubbers

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