Common Sense Rubbers

[turbozed]

Yeah that's around 100 hours of gameplay for the rubber, that sounds just about right for it to be replaced.
People need to think more like this, in terms of playing hours compared to duration of how long the rubber has been attached to the blade.

I actually just keep a simple spreadsheet on my phone tracking hours played. This seems pretty simple at first, but the big question is what constitutes an hour of play.

If I'm just practicing forehands for an hour, then clearly I can increase my FH rubber age by one hour and I keep my BH rubber age the same.

Well what if I'm playing an even mix of BH and FH for an hour? Most people would just say they put in an hour on both rubbers. But it wouldn't be in line with the reasoning in the FH only scenario.

I suspect when some people say that they put in 100+ hours of play on a rubber, a good amount (or maybe even a majority) of those 'hours' were spent where the rubber rarely contacted a ball.

 

[Der_Echte]

I pretty much feel the same way as you do NL, but I purposely from the beginning did not demand he use such and such or nothing... he needed to start learning and developing the fundamental things... and he could learn them with an ALL+ or an OFF+ blade.

He needs to learn touch better, and he is, even with his equipment we would both like to see him go slower on the blade. Even with the rubbers I would like to see him go medium on FH and softer on BH, but the rubbers he has are still suitable and capable to make use of feel. They are not so bouncy on low to medium impacts.

He likes to spin the ball or better yet, develop more ability to spin the ball... and if You, Der_Echte and Scoobie Sergey Tsos all say it is easier with Nate's Koto outer wood blade and those rubbers to spin heavy and slow when he wants, then he may be even more inclined to give it a try for 6 months. He is already interested. I already gave him two more suitable blades.

His larger issue right now in tournaments is the mental performance aspect. If he is able to do enough tourney matches to not feel scared or stressed or pressured or tight, he will perform closer to his training level.

Right now, he performs 300 points less level in tourney matches then his training level. That gap will get less as he does more tourneys. he is fully aware of it and does not like it at all. He does not want to let anyone out-work him to get there, whatever and however that entails.

In the next month he will do at least two tourneys and has the Big Tourney goal of May 2023 888 Teams championships... that is the tourney he really wants and will peak for... then later (maybe a week or so later) - the Meiklejohn Seniors. By then, I think he will be a lot closer to performing where he should... and he should do very well at Meiklejohn Seniors vs that crowd. I have seen them, I know LDM7 will perform well there. They do not spin well nor block heavy spin. He just needs to return a serve and spin the ball to win vs them.

He is already defeating players 300 points above his level (even when playing tighter than tight can be) in sanctioned tourneys... I think by the time Meiklejohn rolls around, he will be winning 1400 and 1500 level players and get his rating near thee. An exact ratings goal is not the goal...

... I told him early on that if he trained a reasonable amount (like 1 hr plus lesson a week for 1 - 1.5 years) and if that coach could not significantly raise his play level, like a few hundred points, then the coach failed. That is the measurement. There should be a night and day difference in playing... and there already was early on by anyone's measure.

 

[Wakkibatty]

Surely there's a 10 dollar Chinese rubber that can offer developing beginners what Mark V offers (maybe except thin sponge).

729 Focus 3 Snipe (now just called the Focus 3) fits that bill. It's a high quality, euro-style, non tacky rubber with linear bounce, and is the closest thing to a regular Mark V I've found anywhere, ...with the possible exception of a Joola Energy Xtra (Green Power) with 2.0mm sponge.

The Joola is slightly faster and spinnier than both the Mark V and F3S... it's got a feel which is kind of semi-linear/semi-tensor. It's an older rubber like the F3S, and at 37.5° it's definitely one for lovers of soft sponge - but it's still a very good quality, eminently useable, competitive and somewhat underrated rubber IMO.

 

[Lazer]

Right now I play 6-8 hours per week. So changing every 3-4 months sounds about right?

A Mark V will last longer than that, maybe a whole Year,,,

 

[hclnnkhg]

A Mark V will last longer than that, maybe a whole Year,,,

I don't want a rubber that lasts a whole year I quite like putting new rubber sheets on.

 

[Lazer]

I don't want a rubber that lasts a whole year I quite like putting new rubber sheets on.

I like to play...

 

[TheProfessor]

I pretty much feel the same way as you do NL, but I purposely from the beginning did not demand he use such and such or nothing... he needed to start learning and developing the fundamental things... and he could learn them with an ALL+ or an OFF+ blade.

He needs to learn touch better, and he is, even with his equipment we would both like to see him go slower on the blade. Even with the rubbers I would like to see him go medium on FH and softer on BH, but the rubbers he has are still suitable and capable to make use of feel. They are not so bouncy on low to medium impacts.

He likes to spin the ball or better yet, develop more ability to spin the ball... and if You, Der_Echte and Scoobie Sergey Tsos all say it is easier with Nate's Koto outer wood blade and those rubbers to spin heavy and slow when he wants, then he may be even more inclined to give it a try for 6 months. He is already interested. I already gave him two more suitable blades.

His larger issue right now in tournaments is the mental performance aspect. If he is able to do enough tourney matches to not feel scared or stressed or pressured or tight, he will perform closer to his training level.

Right now, he performs 300 points less level in tourney matches then his training level. That gap will get less as he does more tourneys. he is fully aware of it and does not like it at all. He does not want to let anyone out-work him to get there, whatever and however that entails.

In the next month he will do at least two tourneys and has the Big Tourney goal of May 2023 888 Teams championships... that is the tourney he really wants and will peak for... then later (maybe a week or so later) - the Meiklejohn Seniors. By then, I think he will be a lot closer to performing where he should... and he should do very well at Meiklejohn Seniors vs that crowd. I have seen them, I know LDM7 will perform well there. They do not spin well nor block heavy spin. He just needs to return a serve and spin the ball to win vs them.

He is already defeating players 300 points above his level (even when playing tighter than tight can be) in sanctioned tourneys... I think by the time Meiklejohn rolls around, he will be winning 1400 and 1500 level players and get his rating near thee. An exact ratings goal is not the goal...

... I told him early on that if he trained a reasonable amount (like 1 hr plus lesson a week for 1 - 1.5 years) and if that coach could not significantly raise his play level, like a few hundred points, then the coach failed. That is the measurement. There should be a night and day difference in playing... and there already was early on by anyone's measure.

I know this is off-topic, but any tips on how one can afford to play 3-5 hrs of Table Tennis a day everyday?

 

[piligrim]

I know this is off-topic, but any tips on how one can afford to play 3-5 hrs of Table Tennis a day everyday?

In my club many seniors people play 3-5 hours every day ))

 

[Der_Echte]

I know this is off-topic, but any tips on how one can afford to play 3-5 hrs of Table Tennis a day everyday?

Play at a center that is flat fee for 2 to 3 hrs.

 

[hclnnkhg]

I know this is off-topic, but any tips on how one can afford to play 3-5 hrs of Table Tennis a day everyday?

play before work and play after work if you work roughly 9 to 5. I find having single session that last longer than 3 hours is too exhausting for playing everyday (this assumes the 3 hour session is all serious practice/match).

 

[OldUser]

The U1200 USATT player I coach has Tibhar MX-D on his FH on a fast blade... That rubber is seriously juicy on the top end and the blade makes it even juicier... yet I see several professionally coached Bay Area developing juniors who are using this rubber too. This rubber makes hits precise, but it is also not difficult to make a slow heavy topspin - a major touch and feel shot I want this player to develop.

Sure, the pundit coaches recommend a slow blade slowish medium rubbers... and that way works... and has a long history of proof... but it isn't the only way. This player has improved significantly in training level (like 500+ points better in well under a year) and it is now beginning to show in sanctioned tourney level like it should 6-12 months later after improvement. ( in a recent tourney, he defeated a player 300 points higher rated and should have won vs the 200 points higher rated one if he trusted himself to serve and spin it up)

I purposely avoided dictating what he should use for blade and rubbers... I assessed he would benefit more from the pure fundamentals of the sport with rubbers that are suitable enough... and oddly enough, MX-D is suitable for him, both now and later.

As a junior in the 1600 USATT ish zone (old FFTT 60 / now 1100) yeah I used to play with a clipper and speed glued Mark V both side, but I was a young player trained by a national level coach in France in the early 90's, training at least 15h/week, for at least 2 years and playing 3 leagues: the University one, the official FFTT team one and the single tournaments, it was at that time the beginning of the best era for french TT. But when I stoppped TT for a 3 years hiatus (in the french army as a sergeant, combat medic), I droppped to only 7 to 8 hours a week, with other priorities in my life such as working as a paramedic as a civilian and also music. I stoppped speed glueing and lowered my blade and rubbers to something more controlable. But I managed somehow to go up to 1800 USATT- FFTT old50/1300 with that kind of strategy.

So, that's another variable to consider: is it a young or older player ? how much does he/she train per week ? what's the progression ?

 

[Der_Echte]

Yes. A player must do the things to improve performance... and unfortunately, there are a LOT of them in TT.

 

[WeakLoops]

Not much discussion on Rakza 7? I thought that would get the most chatter since it has such a huge cult following

 

[Der_Echte]

...t is hard to develop range and good ball feeling...

This is an outstanding thig to focus on and develop... we see way too many kids and adult learners play at only one speed.

A good feel for the ball and ability to loop at all speeds given a ball is a HUGE advantage and tool for a player... both in terms of versatility, safety, and lethality.

It is a shame more players do not learn to spin well at more than one speed.

 

[Der_Echte]

As a junior in the 1600 USATT ish zone (old FFTT 60 / now 1100) yeah I used to play with a clipper and speed glued Mark V both side, but I was a young player trained by a national level coach in France in the early 90's, training at least 15h/week, for at least 2 years and playing 3 leagues: the University one, the official FFTT team one and the single tournaments, it was at that time the beginning of the best era for french TT. But when I stoppped TT for a 3 years hiatus (in the french army as a sergeant, combat medic), I droppped to only 7 to 8 hours a week, with other priorities in my life such as working as a paramedic as a civilian and also music. I stoppped speed glueing and lowered my blade and rubbers to something more controlable. But I managed somehow to go up to 1800 USATT- FFTT old50/1300 with that kind of strategy.

So, that's another variable to consider: is it a young or older player ? how much does he/she train per week ? what's the progression ?

I should make a specific comment that what olduser described about the things he did to improve are some of what is needed to improve.

He got it done to a degree only 20% achieve, it is notable.

 

[OldUser]

Thing is: I could have entered the FFTT coaching/training course, 1300/50 being the flat ranking for that application. But at that time no clubs in my area were able to pay for a graduated and pro coach. Not the same today though with new regulations on self employement in France. But I'm no longer playing due to a serious shoulder injury. Anyway last year one of the teens I've helped training and coaching with my club's pro coach (a guy from La Romagne club in french Pro A) has been selected for the girls cadets french nationals, not a high ranking but she's improved a lot after lockdown. I've been mostly doing cardio, multiball and set plays with her.

 

[lodro]

I know this is off-topic, but any tips on how one can afford to play 3-5 hrs of Table Tennis a day everyday?

retire from work, it is the devils invention anyway.
Then (using the words of the late great Franky Zappa) get yourself " a succulent young lady with a taste for the bizarre" and a lot of money.
Glad to be of assistance with good advise anytime. 😂

 

[Wakkibatty]

retire from work, it is the devils invention anyway.
Then (using the words of the late great Franky Zappa) get yourself " a succulent young lady with a taste for the bizarre" and a lot of money.
Glad to be of assistance with good advise anytime. 😂

Well I have the succulent young lady all sorted ...it's the money that's the issue though. 😂😂

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I should make a specific comment that what olduser described about the things he did to improve are some of what is needed to improve.

He got it done to a degree only 20% achieve, it is notable.

TT is very weird
other than equipment change, the player also gotten older, or matured.
There is lots of talk about playing/training or equipment, but there isn't enough talk of understanding (or talking tt).
To me, maturing in table tennis is also very important.

This is where some players start at the same age, progress the same, use the same equipment but when come crunch time, some have the mind to pull through and some still wondering what happened.

It might be an understanding of the game, or simply, just gotten older and have a different perspective in the game. All equally important.
This is where one of the head coaches I know, always encourage students to listen to all kinds of feedback, even feedback from not so well known coaches, as just maybe, there is something in there that makes sense and that you (the player) haven't thought of before. Its all mind training once you get to a certain level basically

 

[Der_Echte]

TT is very weird
other than equipment change, the player also gotten older, or matured.
There is lots of talk about playing/training or equipment, but there isn't enough talk of understanding (or talking tt).
To me, maturing in table tennis is also very important.

This is where some players start at the same age, progress the same, use the same equipment but when come crunch time, some have the mind to pull through and some still wondering what happened.

It might be an understanding of the game, or simply, just gotten older and have a different perspective in the game. All equally important.

This is where one of the head coaches I know, always encourage students to listen to all kinds of feedback, even feedback from not so well known coaches, as just maybe, there is something in there that makes sense and that you (the player) haven't thought of before. Its all mind training once you get to a certain level basically

Truth, it is not spoken even a fraction of what it is deserved. I spoke of this to many of my TT friends and frenemies recently. Development in the mental aspect of TT is very akin to maturing as a person and has many transferable aspects to it.