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chiz
02-26-2013, 05:13 PM
Hi, I just bought my first made racket
FH: Neo Hurricane 3(40)
BH: Galaxy Moon Max Tense
Blade:Galaxy T-11+
I was playing with a pre-made racket before with FH and BH Friendship 729 Super FX
Now I'm having difficulties adapting to the new racket.
It seems to me that the neo hurricane 3 produce less spin than my old Super FX which isn't supposed to be the case. When I spin the ball with my FH it seems to me that the contact with the ball is longer with the Super FX whereas the ball immediately bounce off upon contact with the Neo Hurricane 3. Even during serve I sense better spin with FX, the ball literally just bounce off without much spin with the Neo Hurricane 3
I think it might be due to the degree of the sponge but I cannot find much difference between the 2 rubbers on that aspect.
I went with 40 degrees because I heard that it produce more spin, better etc, but this doesn't seem to be the case. Anyone has ever experienced this? Thanks

jmillsy2
02-26-2013, 07:45 PM
i havent... i chop with hurricane 3 (normal, commercial), and find it very spinny..so cant really help, sorry...
i found generally, when i attacked, the softer the rubber, the faster it is. although obviously most soft rubber produce a lot of spin too.
i find the chinese rubbers are generally very tacky and good for spinning though, and h3 is one of the best, so im not a lot of help...sorrry :/
perhaps its just a duff sheet.

John_Pish
02-26-2013, 08:27 PM
it comes down to technique with the rubber differences. because H3 has a very hard sponge, there is not alot of time that the ball is contacting it before it is off the rubber. you need more brushing of the ball to get more spin, and not going through the ball as much as before. cant say for sure without seeing, or for that matter feeling what you are doing.

but i think the issue definitely comes down to developing a better feel for touch and brushing the ball.
but im no expert, im just thinking physics wise that's what makes sense :]
hope that helped

BLUE
02-26-2013, 10:03 PM
it comes down to technique with the rubber differences. because H3 has a very hard sponge, there is not alot of time that the ball is contacting it before it is off the rubber. you need more brushing of the ball to get more spin, and not going through the ball as much as before. cant say for sure without seeing, or for that matter feeling what you are doing.

but i think the issue definitely comes down to developing a better feel for touch and brushing the ball.
but im no expert, im just thinking physics wise that's what makes sense :]
hope that helped

I can copy that. The harder the sponge is, the more you need to work on your touch. While it is easier to generate a certain amount of spin with softer rubbers you can get a lot more spin with the H3 due to its tacky rubber, but, as already mentioned, you have to improve your "touch".

It is the same thing, when deciding the thickness of the sponge. Maximum generates more speed and spin but needs a cleaner technique than thinner sponges.

Markvee
02-26-2013, 10:45 PM
it comes down to technique with the rubber differences. because H3 has a very hard sponge, there is not alot of time that the ball is contacting it before it is off the rubber.

Well, yes and no, depends on what blade you use. If you are playing a hard sponge on a very flexy blade, the hard sponge will really engage the blade flex and as a result, your racket will have plenty dwell.

A soft rubber on the same racket, will typically not engage the blade flex as much, so you get more dwell from the rubber but much less dwell from the blade.

(Soft rubber will take much of the ball's impact energy, and use it to catapult the ball, so much the energy gets dissipated in the sponge. Hard dead sponges let most of the impact energy push the rubber into the blade, so if the blade is flexy, you get dwell and catapult from the blade instead of the rubber.)

I play a very flexy blade with hard rubber on the forehand and soft on the backhand, and this effect is very noticeable if I twiddle. (I twiddle when I EJ my soft backhand rubber and I'm curious of how it plays on the forehand.)

John_Pish
02-26-2013, 10:59 PM
Well, yes and no, depends on what blade you use. If you are playing a hard sponge on a very flexy blade, the hard sponge will really engage the blade flex and as a result, your racket will have plenty dwell. (On this kind of blade, the rubber won't spit the ball out before the blade flexes back.)

A soft rubber on the same racket, will typically not engage the blade flex as much, so you get more dwell from the rubber but less dwell from the blade.

I play a very flexy blade with hard rubber on the forehand and soft on the backhand, and this effect is very noticeable if I twiddle. (I twiddle when I EJ my soft backhand rubber and I'm curious of how it plays on the forehand.)

i agree, just speaking in general terms, the harder the sponge, the more Brush/touch you need in your stroke to get the most out of it

TTFrenzy
02-26-2013, 11:05 PM
Sponge hardness is a topic that is often misunderstood. Various amounts of spin & speed are produced on the ball depending on several factors...
These factors are

1)Dwell time (mostly related to spin but in soft rubbers it creates speed also)

2)Power of the stroke (related to spin & spin also, the harder the hit the faster the ball, the harder the brush the spinnier the ball)

3)Tehcnique timing & angle of the stroke that also produce different amounts speed & spin

Some physics to understand better

http://z.about.com/d/tabletennis/1/0/k/-/-/-/spin_samespindiffspeed.gif

There are two forces on the ball a) the tangential one that creates spin b)and the lateral one that creates speed

Notice that by the term speed we mean horizontal speed not vertical! The actual result of these two forces is that the ball is travelling spinny and speedy creating an arc.

Lets assume that a table tennis sponge is like a spring . Hard springs when compared to softer ones when fully compressed produce more force thus more acceleration (F= K X A , Newton's law) thus more speed, to the object that compresses them. K is the modulus of elasticity of the spring=sponge, F the Force , A fore acceleration

Conclusion no1 : When the sponge is hard you need strong hitters to manage to compress the sponge at its full in order to take full advantage of its abilities ! To achieve that you need a hard hitter with perfect timing and angle of the racket. Like any chinese professional player for example...doesnt have to be top10. That doesnt mean that if you are in good physical condition with fast footwork and good body & wrist rotation (but not a pro player) you cant play effectively with a chinese rubber
.
Conclusion no2 : With softer sponges (the sponge has more "porosity") you need less power and have big margin for error in your angle of your strokes to achieve a desired arc (speed&spin). Because of the softness, the ball compresses easily the sponge at its full potential giving you & me and the whooole TTdaily forum amateur players an easy task!

Conclusion no3 : Knowing the importance of timing, paddle angle and sponge hardness, underspins lifted with hard rubbers need perfect technique and timing compared to the soft ones. A heavy underspin if lifted with a small error in technique using a soft rubber, maybe will not be lifted (or lifted with less pace & arc) with a hard rubber. BUT when you learn your technique correctly and learn to lift every underspin ball with ease, using hard rubbers will give you more effective shots

So...If you have good technique footwork and physique you can play with a hard tacky rubber like the hurricane (boosted of course...chinese rubbers were invented to be boosted) . If you are a beginner who still is improving his shots prefer a soft rubber.

p.s. Notice that conclusion1&2&3 are considering the exact same stroke with the exact same incoming ball to your paddle.

Markvee
02-26-2013, 11:07 PM
Hi, I just bought my first made racket
FH: Neo Hurricane 3(40)
BH: Galaxy Moon Max Tense
Blade:Galaxy T-11+
I was playing with a pre-made racket before with FH and BH Friendship 729 Super FX
Now I'm having difficulties adapting to the new racket.
It seems to me that the neo hurricane 3 produce less spin than my old Super FX

T-11 is a fast blade, and won't hold the ball nearly as long as a typical pre-made racket. (These are usually allround-style 5-ply rackets which have lots of dwell.) I think this is the main problem.

TTFrenzy
02-26-2013, 11:13 PM
Hi, I just bought my first made racket
FH: Neo Hurricane 3(40)
BH: Galaxy Moon Max Tense
Blade:Galaxy T-11+
I was playing with a pre-made racket before with FH and BH Friendship 729 Super FX
Now I'm having difficulties adapting to the new racket.
It seems to me that the neo hurricane 3 produce less spin than my old Super FX which isn't supposed to be the case. When I spin the ball with my FH it seems to me that the contact with the ball is longer with the Super FX whereas the ball immediately bounce off upon contact with the Neo Hurricane 3. Even during serve I sense better spin with FX, the ball literally just bounce off without much spin with the Neo Hurricane 3
I think it might be due to the degree of the sponge but I cannot find much difference between the 2 rubbers on that aspect.
I went with 40 degrees because I heard that it produce more spin, better etc, but this doesn't seem to be the case. Anyone has ever experienced this? Thanks

Read my previous post if you like :) It is rather unlikely that the 729 FX produces more spin that the hurricane. Maybe you feel that way because it is softer thus giving you more feedback in your palm.

Of course the fact that you have an OFF+ blade plays an important role in the dwell time of the blade...pre made paddles are very slow compared to custom ones. So they have more dwell time=more spin

John_Pish
02-27-2013, 12:02 AM
Sponge hardness is a topic that is often misunderstood. Various amounts of spin & speed are produced on the ball depending on several factors...
These factors are

1)Dwell time (mostly related to spin but in soft rubbers it creates speed also)

2)Power of the stroke (related to spin & spin also, the harder the hit the faster the ball, the harder the brush the spinnier the ball)

3)Tehcnique timing & angle of the stroke that also produce different amounts speed & spin

Some physics to understand better

http://z.about.com/d/tabletennis/1/0/k/-/-/-/spin_samespindiffspeed.gif

There are two forces on the ball a) the tangential one that creates spin b)and the lateral one that creates speed

Notice that by the term speed we mean horizontal speed not vertical! The actual result of these two forces is that the ball is travelling spinny and speedy creating an arc.

Lets assume that a table tennis sponge is like a spring . Hard springs when compared to softer ones when fully compressed produce more force thus more acceleration (F= K X A , Newton's law) thus more speed, to the object that compresses them. K is the modulus of elasticity of the spring=sponge, F the Force , A fore acceleration

Conclusion no1 : When the sponge is hard you need strong hitters to manage to compress the sponge at its full in order to take full advantage of its abilities ! To achieve that you need a hard hitter with perfect timing and angle of the racket. Like any chinese professional player for example...doesnt have to be top10. That doesnt mean that if you are in good physical condition with fast footwork and good body & wrist rotation (but not a pro player) you cant play effectively with a chinese rubber
.
Conclusion no2 : With softer sponges (the sponge has more "porosity") you need less power and have big margin for error in your angle of your strokes to achieve a desired arc (speed&spin). Because of the softness, the ball compresses easily the sponge at its full potential giving you & me and the whooole TTdaily forum amateur players an easy task!

Conclusion no3 : Knowing the importance of timing, paddle angle and sponge hardness, underspins lifted with hard rubbers need perfect technique and timing compared to the soft ones. A heavy underspin if lifted with a small error in technique using a soft rubber, maybe will not be lifted (or lifted with less pace & arc) with a hard rubber. BUT when you learn your technique correctly and learn to lift every underspin ball with ease, using hard rubbers will give you more effective shots

So...If you have good technique footwork and physique you can play with a hard tacky rubber like the hurricane (boosted of course...chinese rubbers were invented to be boosted) . If you are a beginner who still is improving his shots prefer a soft rubber.

p.s. Notice that conclusion1&2&3 are considering the exact same stroke with the exact same incoming ball to your paddle.

what a great post.

YosuaYosan
02-27-2013, 12:28 PM
I think it's also because your equipment jump is quite extreme too..

Here is some reasons and stuffs for your own study about this matter:

1. In the forehand you are now using a chinese tacky rubber instead of your previous
Search engine keyword: chinese rubber vs euro/jap rubber, tacky rubber vs grippy rubber, topsheet spin and mechanical spin

2. Both in your forehand and backhand, you are now using harder sponge
Search engine keyword: table tennis soft vs hard rubber, table tennis dwell time

3. Both in your forehand and backhand, you are now using rubber with higher throw angle
Search engine keyword: table tennis rubber throw, table tennis high throw low throw

4. Both in your forehand and backhand, your rubber now has vertically aligned pips (horizontally before)
Search engine keyword: table tennis vertical pips horizontal pips

Sorry can't tell much, gotta run, I hope this helps :)

Edit: and as always, TECHNIQUE is the other side of the coin.. Can't leave that..

chiz
02-27-2013, 01:26 PM
i havent... i chop with hurricane 3 (normal, commercial), and find it very spinny..so cant really help, sorry...
i found generally, when i attacked, the softer the rubber, the faster it is. although obviously most soft rubber produce a lot of spin too.
i find the chinese rubbers are generally very tacky and good for spinning though, and h3 is one of the best, so im not a lot of help...sorrry :/
perhaps its just a duff sheet.

H3 is very tacky?How do you judge that?because after a few hours of play I can only slightly feel the tackiness. and I did not find it especially tacky as new.

chiz
02-27-2013, 01:27 PM
it comes down to technique with the rubber differences. because H3 has a very hard sponge, there is not alot of time that the ball is contacting it before it is off the rubber. you need more brushing of the ball to get more spin, and not going through the ball as much as before. cant say for sure without seeing, or for that matter feeling what you are doing.

but i think the issue definitely comes down to developing a better feel for touch and brushing the ball.
but im no expert, im just thinking physics wise that's what makes sense :]
hope that helped

How do I get more brushing if there is less contact time?

chiz
02-27-2013, 01:30 PM
I can copy that. The harder the sponge is, the more you need to work on your touch. While it is easier to generate a certain amount of spin with softer rubbers you can get a lot more spin with the H3 due to its tacky rubber, but, as already mentioned, you have to improve your "touch".

It is the same thing, when deciding the thickness of the sponge. Maximum generates more speed and spin but needs a cleaner technique than thinner sponges.

Again why do everyone says H3 is very tacky?I did not find it that way. In fact I when comparing Super FX and H3 as new I would say I find Super FX tackier.

chiz
02-27-2013, 01:37 PM
So...If you have good technique footwork and physique you can play with a hard tacky rubber like the hurricane (boosted of course...chinese rubbers were invented to be boosted) . If you are a beginner who still is improving his shots prefer a soft rubber.

p.s. Notice that conclusion1&2&3 are considering the exact same stroke with the exact same incoming ball to your paddle.

What do you mean boosted?How do I do that?Actually I have been playing for around 5 years with pre-made rackets and thought that it was time to give custom made ones a try. I mostly read some reviews online to choose my blade and rubbers and bought it off ebay as the prices literally robbery.

Ty

chiz
02-27-2013, 01:43 PM
I think it's also because your equipment jump is quite extreme too..

Here is some reasons and stuffs for your own study about this matter:

1. In the forehand you are now using a chinese tacky rubber instead of your previous
Search engine keyword: chinese rubber vs euro/jap rubber, tacky rubber vs grippy rubber, topsheet spin and mechanical spin

2. Both in your forehand and backhand, you are now using harder sponge
Search engine keyword: table tennis soft vs hard rubber, table tennis dwell time

3. Both in your forehand and backhand, you are now using rubber with higher throw angle
Search engine keyword: table tennis rubber throw, table tennis high throw low throw

4. Both in your forehand and backhand, your rubber now has vertically aligned pips (horizontally before)
Search engine keyword: table tennis vertical pips horizontal pips

Sorry can't tell much, gotta run, I hope this helps :)

Edit: and as always, TECHNIQUE is the other side of the coin.. Can't leave that..

I would have preferred to check the goods before buying but unfortunately that is not possible and I made my choice by going along with some reviews.
Isn't Super FX a chinese rubber?Actually when I choose degree of sponge I choose 40 because I wanted the feel to be a bit like Super FX(found it a bit hard but just right), but as degree are just numbers online I made a wrong decision.

thanks

dklaaaa
02-27-2013, 01:46 PM
怎么不用红双喜的底板?狂飙王3、狂飙龙2也行啊,银河底板在中国比较差!狂飙40很硬了,多适应。

decoy
02-27-2013, 02:04 PM
anyway ditch the t11 the only thing its good for is attacking miles away from the table with hurricane.

get something like a rosewood, or hurricane Hao, or a clipper wood

chiz
02-27-2013, 02:25 PM
anyway ditch the t11 the only thing its good for is attacking miles away from the table with hurricane.

get something like a rosewood, or hurricane Hao, or a clipper wood

unfortunately I cannot change blade due to financial reasons,I will just have to do with it. What I want is to adapt to what I have.
Reviews tabletennisdb were only praising the t11 saying that it's good for attacking etc...that's why I went along with it.

and I'm not very muscular that's why I choose something light as reviews said that rubbers themselves were already a bit heavy.

Anyway I play only during my free time from university and I don't want to spent more money on something that I do only 1-2 every 2 week, my budget is at its limit.

btw why is it good for is attacking miles away from the table?I played with it and can attack perfectly fine near the table.

chiz
02-27-2013, 02:26 PM
怎么不用红双喜的底板?狂飙王3、狂飙龙2也行啊,银河底板在中国比较差!狂飙40很硬了,多适应。
I can't read chinese

Markvee
02-27-2013, 02:32 PM
edit: too many edits, made new post.

Robbenummer1
02-27-2013, 02:32 PM
hey,

I think that the hurricane a faster rubber is and the ball is quicker from your racket.
The ball doesn' t stay that long as your old rubber. You have to change your playing style a little to get morespin on the ball, i had the same problem. After a mond you shout get more spin on the ball. Sorry for English ;)

YosuaYosan
02-27-2013, 02:36 PM
I would have preferred to check the goods before buying but unfortunately that is not possible and I made my choice by going along with some reviews.
Isn't Super FX a chinese rubber?Actually when I choose degree of sponge I choose 40 because I wanted the feel to be a bit like Super FX(found it a bit hard but just right), but as degree are just numbers online I made a wrong decision.

thanks

Well 729 Super FX is designed to play like japanese/euro rubber..
To make good spin out of it you need to engage the sponge, while getting good spin from your tacky rubber also involves the topsheet now, esp. in service..
Might be the reason you are lacking spin on service albeit using a rubber with higher spin potential ;)


unfortunately I cannot change blade due to financial reasons
Using your premade racket blade is a very viable option I say :)

chiz
02-27-2013, 02:48 PM
Have you tried removing the old rubbers from your premade rackets? You might need some acetone.

not yet, I still play with it to compare it with the new racket.

Also is it normal that H3 is not as tacky as before with around 2hrs of play?I mean I see a very big difference when it's new and after 2hrs.

chiz
02-27-2013, 02:50 PM
Well 729 Super FX is designed to play like japanese/euro rubber..
To make good spin out of it you need to engage the sponge, while getting good spin from your tacky rubber also involves the topsheet now, esp. in service..
Might be the reason you are lacking spin on service albeit using a rubber with higher spin potential ;)


Using your premade racket blade is a very viable option I say :)

lol would this $5 blade be better than t11?

TableTennisDaily
02-27-2013, 02:53 PM
Sponge hardness is a topic that is often misunderstood. Various amounts of spin & speed are produced on the ball depending on several factors...
These factors are

1)Dwell time (mostly related to spin but in soft rubbers it creates speed also)

2)Power of the stroke (related to spin & spin also, the harder the hit the faster the ball, the harder the brush the spinnier the ball)

3)Tehcnique timing & angle of the stroke that also produce different amounts speed & spin

Some physics to understand better

http://z.about.com/d/tabletennis/1/0/k/-/-/-/spin_samespindiffspeed.gif

There are two forces on the ball a) the tangential one that creates spin b)and the lateral one that creates speed

Notice that by the term speed we mean horizontal speed not vertical! The actual result of these two forces is that the ball is travelling spinny and speedy creating an arc.

Lets assume that a table tennis sponge is like a spring . Hard springs when compared to softer ones when fully compressed produce more force thus more acceleration (F= K X A , Newton's law) thus more speed, to the object that compresses them. K is the modulus of elasticity of the spring=sponge, F the Force , A fore acceleration

Conclusion no1 : When the sponge is hard you need strong hitters to manage to compress the sponge at its full in order to take full advantage of its abilities ! To achieve that you need a hard hitter with perfect timing and angle of the racket. Like any chinese professional player for example...doesnt have to be top10. That doesnt mean that if you are in good physical condition with fast footwork and good body & wrist rotation (but not a pro player) you cant play effectively with a chinese rubber
.
Conclusion no2 : With softer sponges (the sponge has more "porosity") you need less power and have big margin for error in your angle of your strokes to achieve a desired arc (speed&spin). Because of the softness, the ball compresses easily the sponge at its full potential giving you & me and the whooole TTdaily forum amateur players an easy task!

Conclusion no3 : Knowing the importance of timing, paddle angle and sponge hardness, underspins lifted with hard rubbers need perfect technique and timing compared to the soft ones. A heavy underspin if lifted with a small error in technique using a soft rubber, maybe will not be lifted (or lifted with less pace & arc) with a hard rubber. BUT when you learn your technique correctly and learn to lift every underspin ball with ease, using hard rubbers will give you more effective shots

So...If you have good technique footwork and physique you can play with a hard tacky rubber like the hurricane (boosted of course...chinese rubbers were invented to be boosted) . If you are a beginner who still is improving his shots prefer a soft rubber.

p.s. Notice that conclusion1&2&3 are considering the exact same stroke with the exact same incoming ball to your paddle.

Amazing post! I learnt a lot there!

Markvee
02-27-2013, 02:58 PM
lol would this $5 blade be better than t11?

The point is, what is the best blade for a given individual player? You say you play 1-2 hours? sessions? every 2 weeks. I know a guy who used to have pretty good control with his Timo Boll Spirit, but now he can only practice 2-4 hours a week, so it was difficult for him to maintain the technique needed for his offensive blade. So now he's using a slower blade.

Like Yosua says, your 5$ premade blade might be better for players like you and me. The 729 premade blades are actually pretty decent quality blades in the 5-ply all-wood allround class.

With time I'm sure you can get used to the T-11+ if you really want to. But you will need to be patient and you will need to accept that this kind of fast blade won't be very forgiving of your mistakes. And then it's up to you if you want fast speed & difficult placement control & more mistakes (T-11+), or less speed & easier placement control & less mistakes (slower blade).

chiz
02-27-2013, 03:05 PM
The point is, what is the best blade for a given individual player? I play 4 hours a week and I would prefer playing a 729 basic blade with new rubber, to a T-11+.
Playing effectively with a T-11+ kind of blade (OFF+ carbon-balsa blade) requires a lot of practice time. Not counting time spent playing matches.

You say you play 1-2 hours? sessions? every 2 weeks. In this case, as Yosua says, your 5$ premade blade might be better for players like you and me. The 729 premade blades are actually pretty good quality blades in the 5-ply all-wood allround class.

With time I'm sure you can get used to the T-11+ if you really want to, but you have to accept that your shots will not be as spinny as with your old setup.

I was playing everyday before so I reach a decent level but I'm devoting more time to studying now as university is very demanding. I can attack and spin fine, it's just that I miss the feeling of sensing the ball getting into that sponge :)

btw I have an old Stiga Amaze blade, is this good?

John_Pish
02-27-2013, 03:39 PM
How do I get more brushing if there is less contact time?

by having a thinner contact, I dont remember who said it in a video once, i think it was about michael maze serving, but it applies here, "Its like slicing the skin off an apple with a blade." not taking a chunk out of the apple :p hope thats a good visualization


What do you mean boosted?How do I do that?Actually I have been playing for around 5 years with pre-made rackets and thought that it was time to give custom made ones a try. I mostly read some reviews online to choose my blade and rubbers and bought it off ebay as the prices literally robbery.

"boosting" was something that used to be done to rubber just before a match using what was called "speed glue" it would enhance the properties of the rubber. making them better, So rubbers like shriver were fantastic when boosted, which is why it was so popular. and the also the Chinese rubbers were designed knowing that they would be boosted afterward. the 2008 olympics were the last time speed glue was legally used, it was banned from any tournament.

so now rubbers like shriver are only good, instead of great.


unfortunately I cannot change blade due to financial reasons,I will just have to do with it. What I want is to adapt to what I have.
Reviews tabletennisdb were only praising the t11 saying that it's good for attacking etc...that's why I went along with it.

and I'm not very muscular that's why I choose something light as reviews said that rubbers themselves were already a bit heavy.

Anyway I play only during my free time from university and I don't want to spent more money on something that I do only 1-2 every 2 week, my budget is at its limit.

btw why is it good for is attacking miles away from the table?I played with it and can attack perfectly fine near the table.

completely understandable. rubbers and everything are going through the roof in price. But i wouldnt worry about heavy rubber. I im 5' 7" and weigh like 110. and im using what is considered a quite heavy rubber, once u adjust its fine, just depending on how hard you play, watch out for carpel tunnel in the wrist, or tennis elbow. you can get both of these with light rubber as well, just be more aware of it.

decoy
02-27-2013, 03:40 PM
google translate exists for that reason : How without Double Happiness backplane? Hurricane King 3 hurricane Dragon 2 also line ah Galaxy backplane is relatively poor in China! Hurricane 40 hard, multi adapt

chiz
02-27-2013, 03:45 PM
by having a thinner contact, I dont remember who said it in a video once, i think it was about michael maze serving, but it applies here, "Its like slicing the skin off an apple with a blade." not taking a chunk out of the apple :p hope thats a good visualization



"boosting" was something that used to be done to rubber just before a match using what was called "speed glue" it would enhance the properties of the rubber. making them better, So rubbers like shriver were fantastic when boosted, which is why it was so popular. and the also the Chinese rubbers were designed knowing that they would be boosted afterward. the 2008 olympics were the last time speed glue was legally used, it was banned from any tournament.

so now rubbers like shriver are only good, instead of great.



completely understandable. rubbers and everything are going through the roof in price. But i wouldnt worry about heavy rubber. I im 5' 7" and weigh like 110. and im using what is considered a quite heavy rubber, once u adjust its fine, just depending on how hard you play, watch out for carpel tunnel in the wrist, or tennis elbow. you can get both of these with light rubber as well, just be more aware of it.

thanks for advice i'll try it

Is it possible to boost the top sheet?like making it more tacky?

chiz
02-27-2013, 03:46 PM
google translate exists for that reason : How without Double Happiness backplane? Hurricane King 3 hurricane Dragon 2 also line ah Galaxy backplane is relatively poor in China! Hurricane 40 hard, multi adapt

I can barely understand that translation.

John_Pish
02-27-2013, 03:54 PM
thanks for advice i'll try it

Is it possible to boost the top sheet?like making it more tacky?

make it more tacky? not sure. i had a butterfly pre-assembled that was very tacky, and when it lost alot of its tackiness,
i brushed oil (olive, vegetable, whatever) on the rubber, and let it soak in, and repeat a couple times, that will restore alot of the tackiniess, but im not sure about making it MORE tacky. as far as i know the oil is still illegal for tournament. but other people, or clubs nobody is really going to care. especially if they are better than you anyway :pp

TTFrenzy
02-27-2013, 03:56 PM
A thin contact (not less contact time...) means that you brush the ball more and hit less.

Buy this one http://www.megaspin.net/store/default.asp?pid=lkt-instinct . Its very good and cheap blade for beginners. Dont play the hurricane without booster it is not worth it! Other buy a booster (dian chi haifu seamoon booster stiga booster etc) or buy a cheap non tacky european/japanese technology rubber.

I believe either you notice something wrong with your hurricane or your hurricane is bad product. It is definetely one of the most tackiest rubbers out there and for sure more tacky than the friendship you had on your premade paddle.

Hope I helped, if I was you I would sell my T11 (too fast for a beginner) and buy an allwood ALL+ OFF- blade

John_Pish
02-27-2013, 04:04 PM
google translate exists for that reason : How without Double Happiness backplane? Hurricane King 3 hurricane Dragon 2 also line ah Galaxy backplane is relatively poor in China! Hurricane 40 hard, multi adapt


I can barely understand that translation.

Google really knows their stuff ahaha

chiz
02-27-2013, 04:13 PM
make it more tacky? not sure. i had a butterfly pre-assembled that was very tacky, and when it lost alot of its tackiness,
i brushed oil (olive, vegetable, whatever) on the rubber, and let it soak in, and repeat a couple times, that will restore alot of the tackiniess, but im not sure about making it MORE tacky. as far as i know the oil is still illegal for tournament. but other people, or clubs nobody is really going to care. especially if they are better than you anyway :pp

oil on the rubber?doesn't that make it greasy?

John_Pish
02-27-2013, 04:14 PM
oil on the rubber?doesn't that make it greasy?

nope it soaks in. you'll be surprised :P

BLUE
02-27-2013, 04:31 PM
There were a lot of posts since mine, so I won't quote everything :D

But first before you decide: I am no expert, so I'm only telling you from my experience :)

To me the H3 was beside my Skyline the tackiest rubber I ever had, but those were the only chinese I actually had. I used to play european rubbers until I discovered those 2 and I haven't tried out any other.
Maybe that's why our opinion differs about it's tackiness.

Also neither my H3 nor the Skyline have lost their tackiness (even after 1-2 month's). I just have to breath onto it and swipe the humidity from it and ist nearly as tacky as new (or use some water).

I have never boosted the topsheet since I heard, that it wouldn't work. John_Pish said, that he had done it and it worked. Maybe you'll try it out. But as I said, I've only heard about unsatisfying results...

But boosting the rubber is something completely different. As already mentioned, they used to glue with speedglue. This is now forbidden so manufacturers have come up with "boosters". They are not glue, so you still have to glue your rubbers with some VOC free glue. But since it's pretty hard (or even impossible?) to reveal that somone has boosted, most of the pro's do it.
These boosters add some spice to your blade (but still illegal). They make your rubbers faster, spinnier and they feel a lot softer. You can search for it in this forum or in google. There's quite a lot about it.

If you miss a certain feel in your game you could try out a different wood. The internetz is really not your best friend when it comes to reviews or hints about finding your new set-up. It is something very personal. Maybe you should search a local dealer and go there to try some stuff out before bying. That's what I always do. Don't rush it and especially don't let other people tell you what is better for you.
My first custom blade was some andro carbon. It was really really crap. No "feeling", nothing. But it was fast -> so my smashes were cool. But that was the end of the story :D
Then I bought the Tibhar Samsonov Alpha (it's still quite cheap ~30 € here). It was one of the best wooden blades I ever had. And now I have another (faster) all wood blade, which I bought after more than 1 month comparing. Carbon was just wrong for me.

In conclusion: Try it out! :)

dachille
02-27-2013, 04:31 PM
I had this problem with the T11+ using hard rubbers and I have 2 T11+ setups, Setup1- DHS H3 Neo(FH) and DHS Tin Arc3(BH) then I changed to Xiom Vega Europe Max(FH) and Xiom Omega 4 Elite Max (BH) . I am now more than happy as these 2 rubbers are soft and combine very well with the Stiff and fast T11+.

Setup 2 which I bought later is Butterfly Solcion (FH) and I kept the DHS Tin Arc 3(BH) which good for blocking and BH push as it is a none tacky rubber.

I think most definitely the soft rubbers on T11+ is very good for me.

chiz
02-27-2013, 04:32 PM
A thin contact (not less contact time...) means that you brush the ball more and hit less.

Buy this one http://www.megaspin.net/store/default.asp?pid=lkt-instinct . Its very good and cheap blade for beginners. Dont play the hurricane without booster it is not worth it! Other buy a booster (dian chi haifu seamoon booster stiga booster etc) or buy a cheap non tacky european/japanese technology rubber.

I believe either you notice something wrong with your hurricane or your hurricane is bad product. It is definetely one of the most tackiest rubbers out there and for sure more tacky than the friendship you had on your premade paddle.

Hope I helped, if I was you I would sell my T11 (too fast for a beginner) and buy an allwood ALL+ OFF- blade

do you have an H3?can you take a picture of it?
here is a picture of mine after a few hours of use

http://i.imgur.com/a1TN4L1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tPCyraE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FrBDN2t.jpg

I do not find it as glossy as my other teamates old rubbers and when I press my finger against the rubber I barely feel the tackiness.

chiz
02-27-2013, 04:41 PM
If you miss a certain feel in your game you could try out a different wood. The internetz is really not your best friend when it comes to reviews or hints about finding your new set-up. It is something very personal. Maybe you should search a local dealer and go there to try some stuff out before bying. That's what I always do. Don't rush it and especially don't let other people tell you what is better for you.
My first custom blade was some andro carbon. It was really really crap. No "feeling", nothing. But it was fast -> so my smashes were cool. But that was the end of the story :D
Then I bought the Tibhar Samsonov Alpha (it's still quite cheap ~30 € here). It was one of the best wooden blades I ever had. And now I have another (faster) all wood blade, which I bought after more than 1 month comparing. Carbon was just wrong for me.

In conclusion: Try it out! :)

Trying out different set ups would cost huge amount of cash and as a student I don't make much.

dachille
02-27-2013, 04:46 PM
I took the decision to stop using H3 ( I have no photo I afraid) as it needs a lot of energy and technique to make it work properly so my H3 rubbers were in good state but gave them to my fellow players who could master them. I have much more control with my actual rubbers be it soft touch or strong top spins/smashes. I have a much more varied strokes now. I think the Galaxy T11+ is such a rocker of a blade.

BLUE
02-27-2013, 04:49 PM
Trying out different set ups would cost huge amount of cash and as a student I don't make much.

Why would it cost? Is there no opportunity in the shops?

I walk into the shop (preferably with a friend). Tell them what i would like to try out. They glue it on a blade of my choice and me and my friend try them out. They have several tables there. As you see, I don't buy them. They are "test-blades".

I'm a student as well. The shop also has something which you can translate as "test-bag". For a little fee 0.50€ each rubber/blade or something like that you can choose 8 or 9 pieces and you can try them out. You have 6 weeks to decide. Then you give it back. If you liked something you can buy it (of course you'll get a new rubber, not the one you and other have been testing) and then you won't even have to pay the fee.

decoy
02-27-2013, 04:49 PM
then wipe it with a damp sponge.... these rubbers are tacky therefore they pick up dust very easily.... so even when you are playing it helps to... breathe/spit on the rubber and wiping it on your shorts

dachille
02-27-2013, 05:03 PM
Why would it cost? Is there no opportunity in the shops?

I walk into the shop (preferably with a friend). Tell them what i would like to try out. They glue it on a blade of my choice and me and my friend try them out. They have several tables there. As you see, I don't buy them. They are "test-blades".

I'm a student as well. The shop also has something which you can translate as "test-bag". For a little fee 0.50€ each rubber/blade or something like that you can choose 8 or 9 pieces and you can try them out. You have 6 weeks to decide. Then you give it back. If you liked something you can buy it (of course you'll get a new rubber, not the one you and other have been testing) and then you won't even have to pay the fee.

Hi Blue,

Things are not that easy in Mauritius, as we do not have specialized shops selling Table Tennis goods, it only the web which contains a great choice of blades and rubbers.

We are guided by great TT forums like this one and equipment reviews.

chiz
02-27-2013, 05:07 PM
Why would it cost? Is there no opportunity in the shops?

I walk into the shop (preferably with a friend). Tell them what i would like to try out. They glue it on a blade of my choice and me and my friend try them out. They have several tables there. As you see, I don't buy them. They are "test-blades".

I'm a student as well. The shop also has something which you can translate as "test-bag". For a little fee 0.50€ each rubber/blade or something like that you can choose 8 or 9 pieces and you can try them out. You have 6 weeks to decide. Then you give it back. If you liked something you can buy it (of course you'll get a new rubber, not the one you and other have been testing) and then you won't even have to pay the fee.

I'm afraid there isn't such a system in my country. It's like you go to the shop choose your racket and that's it.

chiz
02-27-2013, 05:08 PM
Hi Blue,

Things are not that easy in Mauritius, as we do not have specialized shops selling Table Tennis goods, it only the web which contains a great choice of blades and rubbers.

We are guided by great TT forums like this one and equipment reviews.

you're from Mauritius :)

at least someone who understands my dilemma

chiz
02-27-2013, 05:14 PM
then wipe it with a damp sponge.... these rubbers are tacky therefore they pick up dust very easily.... so even when you are playing it helps to... breathe/spit on the rubber and wiping it on your shorts
I do wipe it after a few mins of use but as many are saying H3 is very tacky, I played a few people today and had a feel of their rubber and I could feel the tackiness more on their old rubber than on my new H3.

dachille
02-27-2013, 05:19 PM
you're from Mauritius :)

at least someone who understands my dilemma

Yeah right mate!

Just save for some soft rubbers such as Butterfly Solcion,Xiom Omega 4 Elite, Vega Europe as I listed above and you wont go wrong.

They are long lasting rubbers as well compared to chinese ones

chiz
02-27-2013, 05:33 PM
Yeah right mate!

Just save for some soft rubbers such as Butterfly Solcion,Xiom Omega 4 Elite, Vega Europe as I listed above and you wont go wrong.

They are long lasting rubbers as well compared to chinese ones

ouch those cost around $50+ a pop, I was looking for rubbers around half that price.

chiz
02-27-2013, 05:42 PM
I googled a picture of an H3 and found this https://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/images/bat1.jpg

It seems that this is tackier than mine

BLUE
02-27-2013, 06:32 PM
Hi Blue,

Things are not that easy in Mauritius, as we do not have specialized shops selling Table Tennis goods, it only the web which contains a great choice of blades and rubbers.

We are guided by great TT forums like this one and equipment reviews.


I'm afraid there isn't such a system in my country. It's like you go to the shop choose your racket and that's it.

Oh yeah right mate. I'm sorry.

Well then it seems like you have something you like anyway. Many friends of mine play with XIOM Vega Elitea and Europe. They are pretty good and they are cheaper than butterfly (at least here). I often buy rubbers for them. F.e. the XIOM Vega Elite or Europe cost me ~ 24,- €.
How are the prices over there in Mauritius?

decoy
02-27-2013, 06:34 PM
its around 25-40 usd for xiom if you know where to look. skip vega europe.. its garbage...

also nothing is long lasting compared to chinese rubbers.. fact. xiom tent to have pretty weak( structurally ) topsheets. bty somewhat stronger.

also about that pic.. they will be about the same tackyness = or - here and there, but you wont need to worry about it.... i would only advice on H3 if your arms are strong.. if you can accelerate your swing pretty fast.. if you cant get TG3 or skip the likes of hurricanes


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqSUbmag-RM

if you swing about as fast as this get skyline..

John_Pish
02-27-2013, 08:04 PM
You guys may not have specialized shops, But i live in america, We dont even have shops. and places that do sell, sell very minimum,
(because they are focused on "sports" )
and don't sell any
un-assembled products of any kind.
and the majority of the population looks at table tennis as a "game" T_T

YosuaYosan
02-28-2013, 03:28 AM
lol would this $5 blade be better than t11?

In your current skill level, I assume that's a yes..

dachille
02-28-2013, 10:14 AM
Oh yeah right mate. I'm sorry.

Well then it seems like you have something you like anyway. Many friends of mine play with XIOM Vega Elitea and Europe. They are pretty good and they are cheaper than butterfly (at least here). I often buy rubbers for them. F.e. the XIOM Vega Elite or Europe cost me ~ 24,- €.
How are the prices over there in Mauritius?

I get them for $35-$37 on the net

chiz
02-28-2013, 11:23 AM
Oh yeah right mate. I'm sorry.

Well then it seems like you have something you like anyway. Many friends of mine play with XIOM Vega Elitea and Europe. They are pretty good and they are cheaper than butterfly (at least here). I often buy rubbers for them. F.e. the XIOM Vega Elite or Europe cost me ~ 24,- €.
How are the prices over there in Mauritius?

I haven't checked prices in store but I wouldn't be surprised if they sell for like $60 since everything that sell here is almost double what I can get it for on ebay.

chiz
02-28-2013, 11:27 AM
its around 25-40 usd for xiom if you know where to look. skip vega europe.. its garbage...

also nothing is long lasting compared to chinese rubbers.. fact. xiom tent to have pretty weak( structurally ) topsheets. bty somewhat stronger.

also about that pic.. they will be about the same tackyness = or - here and there, but you wont need to worry about it.... i would only advice on H3 if your arms are strong.. if you can accelerate your swing pretty fast.. if you cant get TG3 or skip the likes of hurricanes


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqSUbmag-RM

if you swing about as fast as this get skyline..

I don't know if you're talking about the serve(I suck at underspin) but I can swing at that speed when on attack.

chiz
02-28-2013, 11:28 AM
the majority of the population looks at table tennis as a "game" T_T

trust me it isn't only in america

UpSideDownCarl
02-28-2013, 02:13 PM
btw why is it good for is attacking miles away from the table?I played with it and can attack perfectly fine near the table.

I think what has been said is that that is a very fast blade. Too Fast.

If you are finding the Hurricane not tacky, either you need to clean it more frequently, which is a problem with Hurricane. It is tacky enough that it gets covered with dust and stops gripping the ball. Or, you have yourself a fake, which is possible. There are a lot of counterfeits out there.

If it is a real Hurricane then technique is a good part of the answer as stated above. If it is not a real Hurricane then, unfortunately, you may have been swindled.

UpSideDownCarl
02-28-2013, 02:18 PM
It is too bad you read reviews and got something for yourself that was not really right for you. Having a coach or a professional player who knows equipment see your game and recommend a setup that would be right for your needs is ideal. Unfortunately, not everyone has access to that kind of information. So you tried to do your best with on line reviews and, it sounds like, you ended up with a blade that may be too fast and a rubber that is not working for your game.

How does the backhand rubber feel to you? Is that side at least okay?

decoy
02-28-2013, 02:59 PM
what carl said,

yeah when you attack,the thing is you everyone can swing fast once but can you follow up and keep doing it with accuracy and spin

yeah stay away from carbon blades with huricanes .. they dont really like it hard semi flexi blades is what you want.

in my opinion( because ive tried)

Yasaka MEO + H3 will do for mid some far away from table
MEO + TG3 will work better for far away, but wont be as spinny as h3
Rosewood + H3 , i couldnt get it to work from far away that well so best at close to mid distance from table
Rosewood + Tg3( blue sponge) works from close to far away from table
Hurricane hao + tg3 ispretymuch same as the rosewood option but with more dwell( more controll)
Hurricane hao + h3 same as above you will need god power in your arms to make it work far off the table

but saying that a fresh hurricane 3 neo or provincial feels so good on Hurricane hao .. and with intermediate technique will be easy enough to use the better your technique the more you can get out of your equipment

chiz
02-28-2013, 03:22 PM
It is too bad you read reviews and got something for yourself that was not really right for you. Having a coach or a professional player who knows equipment see your game and recommend a setup that would be right for your needs is ideal. Unfortunately, not everyone has access to that kind of information. So you tried to do your best with on line reviews and, it sounds like, you ended up with a blade that may be too fast and a rubber that is not working for your game.

How does the backhand rubber feel to you? Is that side at least okay?

I think I'm lacking some grip on the BH

chiz
02-28-2013, 03:25 PM
what carl said,

yeah when you attack,the thing is you everyone can swing fast once but can you follow up and keep doing it with accuracy and spin

yeah stay away from carbon blades with huricanes .. they dont really like it hard semi flexi blades is what you want.

in my opinion( because ive tried)

Yasaka MEO + H3 will do for mid some far away from table
MEO + TG3 will work better for far away, but wont be as spinny as h3
Rosewood + H3 , i couldnt get it to work from far away that well so best at close to mid distance from table
Rosewood + Tg3( blue sponge) works from close to far away from table
Hurricane hao + tg3 ispretymuch same as the rosewood option but with more dwell( more controll)
Hurricane hao + h3 same as above you will need god power in your arms to make it work far off the table

but saying that a fresh hurricane 3 neo or provincial feels so good on Hurricane hao .. and with intermediate technique will be easy enough to use the better your technique the more you can get out of your equipment

hmm i can do 3-4 of them,beyond that I have high chance of errors but usually the point goes through on the first or 2nd strike.

I searched Rosewood and Hurricane Hao and god they cost around $100 just for the blade.

chiz
02-28-2013, 03:30 PM
Or, you have yourself a fake, which is possible. There are a lot of counterfeits out there.


How can I know if it's a counterfeit?

chiz
02-28-2013, 03:38 PM
also is H3 supposed to pick up balls like that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onLQrkJBTVc&feature=related?

TTFrenzy
02-28-2013, 04:32 PM
yeap ! all of the hurricanes are very tacky and with good durability. Mine is boosted 4-5 times and I am using it for the last 6 months. When I let a ball under my paddle for 5-6 minutes it can still lift it for half a second.

decoy
02-28-2013, 04:35 PM
69 usd fro HH and about 105 RW and about 60 for MEO

http://ttnpp.com/shop/blade-dhs-c-5_22.html

http://www.presports.com/yasaka-ma-lin-extra-offensive-blade-off-p-1333.html?zenid=6da4351d3876462fb0188853414d7485
http://ttnpp.com/shop/blade-yasaka-c-5_108.html

Rosewood clone for 25 USD
http://ttnpp.com/shop/hrt-huaruite-rosewood-nct-v-5-p-573.html

revulucao
02-28-2013, 06:53 PM
i was thinking H3+Inneforce so decoy you say that wouldnt work?

decoy
03-01-2013, 02:52 AM
i actually like innverforce al when i tried it with razka 7 and rakz7 soft... but other than that i wouldnt havea clue how it will go with Hurricane

UpSideDownCarl
03-01-2013, 07:45 AM
How can I know if it's a counterfeit?

I believe that there is a number on the sponge side of the sheet that you can type in, on a DHS web-site and the DHS website will but tried to check.

chiz
03-01-2013, 10:06 AM
yeap ! all of the hurricanes are very tacky and with good durability. Mine is boosted 4-5 times and I am using it for the last 6 months. When I let a ball under my paddle for 5-6 minutes it can still lift it for half a second.

well mine isn't boosted but it can't do that

UpSideDownCarl
03-01-2013, 02:53 PM
well mine isn't boosted but it can't do that

Should be able to do that regardless of whether it is boosted or not. Boost affects the sponge and expands the sponge making it softer. It stretches the tophsheet but does not change the tackiness. If your Hurricane does not do that at all, if it does not grab the ball at all, it really could be a counterfeit. In which case, it might just be a cheap rubber that is made to look like Hurricane.

decoy
03-01-2013, 09:00 PM
make sure topsheet is clean first as well