high and low throw rubbers

[JulienB]

This thread is very funny to follow. It gives some structure to my day LOL.

In the morning, Carl replies the 'arguments' of Pnachtwey. Throughout the day, other members like Nextlevel (most of the time before noon) and KilllerspinTT or Der_Echte answer and agree with Carl. Everything seems fine and this thread seems to fade out...
Then in the evening Pnachtwey rejects or ignores the arguments and everything restarts.

This thread will never end though everything has been said. It's actually very funny to see this foolish discussion going on, Carry on guys!

 

[NextLevel]

I used to play with Bryce at speed glue era, it was a low throw and super fast rubber, but it was still possible to generate tons of spin.
Issue with modern rubbers is to find a low throw + high spin rubber.....rubbers are either high throw + high spin (MX-P, Bluefire M1/M2, T05/80.....) et moderate throw + lower spin (Calibra LT, Calibra Tour, T64, Sinus, Express One...etc...).

Only from Xiom I was able to find rubbers with very high spin (and speed) with moderate throw or like the awesome Sigma II pro. But I'm not used to this kind of rubber anymore and testing it on my brand new Nexy Zealot the throw is to low for my FH (but spin is amazing). I still wonder if I should practice again with a low throw rubber on my FH this summer before competition makes its come back, and adjust my technique to my former technique from speed glue era. If only Sigma II pro was released right after the speed glue ban.....it is the low throw and high speed from Calibra LT with the spin of MX-P.

Try MX-S as well - you may like it.

 

[NextLevel]

This thread is very funny to follow. It gives some structure to my day LOL.

In the morning, Carl replies the 'arguments' of Pnachtwey. Throughout the day, other members like Nextlevel (most of the time before noon) and KilllerspinTT or Der_Echte answer and agree with Carl. Everything seems fine and this thread seems to fade out...
Then in the evening Pnachtwey rejects or ignores the arguments and everything restarts.

This thread will never end though everything has been said. It's actually very funny to see this foolish discussion going on, Carry on guys!

I love it when foreigners describe ridiculous situations in English. Always spot on - makes you wonder why the English don't say it that way.

 

[Rajah*]

Very long thread and all i hear on that video is a SLAPING SLAP SLAPING sound what do you call that? " a looping spin?". Form is not good and so is the timing, ball feeder at mid distance?!!! Seriously and even making a mistake feeding the ball? No need to elaborate on that. Sorry.

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[JulienB]

Very long thread and all i hear on that video is a SLAPING SLAP SLAPING sound what do you call that? " a looping spin?". Form is not good and so is the timing, ball feeder at mid distance?!!! Seriously and even making a mistake feeding the ball? No need to elaborate on that. Sorry.

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Pnachtwey set the ball feeder at mid distance to imitate a chopper. Otherwise, the ball would go off the table.

Here is his explanation:

For those that didn't see the video I configured the Newgy 2050 to throw back spin balls with the speed setting set at maximum or 30. Normally the Newgy couldn't land a back spin ball if mounted on the table so I moved the Newgy back about 12-14 ft from the table. This is also a more realistic distance to generate a chopped ball. The balls had so much back spin that they would initially rise and curve upwards due to the Magnus effect.

 

[NextLevel]

PN Looping (definition)
- a novel stroke where you generate heavy topspin by slapping high chopped balls without arcing them. Produced by matching the TANGENTIAL acceleration of the paddle with the spin of the ball. TANGENTIAL, TANGENTIAL, TANGENTIAL... yes, even though you have to slap the ball...

 

[Rajah*]

Yes definitely the ball will go pass the table coz its a bot.. its not a rational being who could calculate ? therefore its a nonsense debate.
I would suggest he call jsh to chop that ball then we start this lecture. Honestly speaking it would be stupid to lift a heavy underspin ball by using a pure topspin attack. We attack a heavy chop by close to the table sidespin attack or sidetop spin making the contact on the lesser spin area of the ball then generate your own spin and diffrent direction. Thats the key to ignore that heavy underspin. thats the reason why top players beat jsh.
The video he posted you can see also an attack spin towards the net,it means poor timing miscalculations of the underspin as to howmuch power of BRUSHHHH should be given. We do not take a step while making a spin that is a big mistake. We move towards the ball stop moving then we take a spin to have that so called stability and coordination. Powèr should be generated from the ground towards the legs transfering that power from the thigh to the hips making that explosive movement towards the blah blah blah blah...
I am sorry im contributing in making this thread long.


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[UpSideDownCarl]

One of the posters on MyTT made an interesting comment that I think may get to the actual issue that is going on.

pnachtwey definitely has an agenda with his physics-based rants, but I doubt he cares about this kind of "my loop is bigger than your loop" bravado. It isn't about power (ha!) or execution - it's all about the theory, equations and numbers for him. And if that's what he finds fascinating about TT, then fair enough. It's not the path to high-level play, but not everyone wants that.

His real issues are laid bare with the following IMO:

pnachtwey wrote:

Aroonki ,you are missing the point. One can obviously loop or drive back balls with T25. NL, said he had difficulty doing so. I don't believe in myths and superstitions I see on this forum. I don't believe in you can do this or that with that rubber. I can do the math and physics. I know that in almost any reasonable example that I am the limiting factor due to my inability to execute what I know. However, others that blame the equipment are also just making excuses for their inability to execute.

Here you can clearly see the strawman he has built with which he can tear down personal experience and bust some myths (busting makes him feel good, I suppose).

It is just too bad Pnachtwey is more concerned with uncovering other people's "myths" and proving other people are wrong and therefore "stupid" or "idiots" than he is concerned with learning anything himself.

Probably he will come back with more ridiculousness and name calling. But I think people in glass houses should be more careful about throwing stones. And anyone who sees his videos, and has an idea of what looping is, can tell what is really happening in his videos.

It is interesting to see someone who has no intention of trying to understand things better but has some reason for wanting to tell other people they are "wrong" even when it is clear that he can't do what he thinks he is doing.

Well, tonight we will see what the next round looks like. Hahahaha.


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[Old School]

Here you go pnachtwey, loop against backspin. If you are doing this then /thread if you are not then /thread.

 

[iJaymez1]

Here you go pnachtwey, loop against backspin. If you are doing this then /thread if you are not then /thread.

I have not learnt to loop against backspin yet but will learn soon. When you do this does your bat angle need to be more open opposed to the more closed angle of a loop off a nospin/topspin ball?

 

[JulienB]

I have Brain Pace's (USATT Coach) DVD for the FH loop and he suggests a 45° angle against a normal counterhit or block.
Against a topspin ball, close your bat more. Against a backspin ball, open your bat more.

https://www.youtube.com/user/DynamicTableTennisTV
Here you have a link to his youtube channel. There are some good videos, also about the FH loop.

 

[NextLevel]

Speaking for myself, I almost never play pure topspin loop, which is why I liked Rajah's post. Too much work when the underspin or topspin is heavy and the ball you create is not tricky enough for some players, though it is too heavy for others - always going for sidetop by taking ball early or late just to make the rally consistent, though it is an easier ball for some players. It makes your stroke more consistent as you worry less about how closed the paddle is and just decide where on the ball you want to hit, so you can still play topspin or you can change your mind and play something else depending on how you swing and contact the ball.

But we can now talk about the "Pnatchwey loop" fairy - the fairy that used her magic wand to make pnatchwey think he can loop. That is the problem with topspin - some people think that any topspin is real topspin. The Pnatchwey loop fairy is real. IT is not like his "throw fairy", which is his own imagination...

 

[Suga D]

@PNachtwey:
I actually didn't want to post in this thread, 'cause it's been a very entertaining read so far.
But i just couldn't hold back anymore, and I just watched your training vids today. Now i know what everyone else is talking about. Man, seriously now: if you have a coach, then you should charge your money back and if not, you should really invest in one or at least get yourself a topspin wheel like the one from TSP (and a racket with old rubbers on).
The chinese call a topspin (or as you prefer to call it: loop) translated to english a "pull ball". Now seeing your technique they would have to find a new term, which would be most likely a "slap ball", 'cause you ain't pulling at all. One can hear quite clearly. As carl stated already: a "pull ball" makes a completely different sound, and where is there an arc?
Why i recommend the spinning wheel is, we had one dude at our club, who was doing pretty much the same as you did in the vid. And he also was thinking he was doing something else than he actually did and was arguing with everyone in the club, even with the coach. So what happened is: on the next training day the coach brought this spinning wheel.
Now one can fool oneself on one's technique in a regular one on one training, but that wheel won't allow that, 'cause there is no other option: to make the wheel spin fast you GOTTA use a brush stroke, or else....
Well to make it short: it took my club mate about three blades to realize that he needed to change his technique. Hopefully you don't need that many.

 

[mahomedy13]

I look forward to reading tomorrows edition of this thread...

 

[BeGo]

@PNachtwey:
I actually didn't want to post in this thread, 'cause it's been a very entertaining read so far.
But i just couldn't hold back anymore, and I just watched your training vids today. Now i know what everyone else is talking about. Man, seriously now: if you have a coach, then you should charge your money back and if not, you should really invest in one or at least get yourself a topspin wheel like the one from TSP (and a racket with old rubbers on). The chinese call a topspin (or as you prefer to call it: loop) a "pull ball". Now seeing your technique they would have to find a new term, which would be most likely a "slap ball", 'cause you ain't pulling at all. One can hear quite clearly. As carl stated already: a " pull ball" makes a totally different sound.
Why i recommend the spinning wheel is, we had one dude at our club, who was doing pretty much the same as you did in the vid. And he also was thinking he was doing something else than he actually did. Arguing with everyone in the club, even the coach. So what happened is: on the next training day the coach brought this spinning wheel.
Now one can fool oneselve on one's technique in a regular one on one training, but that wheel won't allow that, 'cause there is no other option: to make the wheel spin fast you GOTTA use a brush stroke, or else....
Well to make it short: it took my club mate about three blades to realize that he needed to change his technique. Hopefully you don't need that many.

Add a photograph or video later please.

I never seen this kind of “fly wheel” for loop learning, so I do interested.

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[mahomedy13]

Add a photograph or video later please.

I never seen this kind of “fly wheel” for loop learning, so I do interested.

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I'm sure tibhar also has one.they call it the 'Spin bal' or something.try googling tibhar training tutorials and you will see it there.

 

[Suga D]

Here you go, buddy ;-)

 

[Suga D]

Add a photograph or video later please.

I never seen this kind of “fly wheel” for loop learning, so I do interested.

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I think you can get it from many places. Well, here is one
http://www.contra.de/product_info.php/language/en/info/p7810_TSP-Top-Spin-Rad-mit-Tachometer.html


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[BeGo]

Here you go, buddy ;-)

Great video!

I guess, this a good gizmo to ingrain Chinese Loop and Chop movement, 0 drive 100 slash.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

This is for just in case we forget that there is a time and a place for a good slap:

This video is called THE SLAP DIARY and it features the one and only Matt Hetherington (aka PingPongPom):

Now that is how you slap a high backspin ball. hahaha.