high and low throw rubbers

[DTopSpirit]

Spin incoming = spin outgoing.

If I'm understanding that right, I think Pnachtwey is saying that the amount of backspin on the ball as it comes towards him is equal to the amount of topspin on the ball as it goes away from him after he hits it.

Assuming I haven't got that bit wrong, a fairly easy rule of thumb test would be to change the robot from level 25/30 backspin to level 25/30 topspin, and compare the flight of that ball to the flight of the ball after Pnachtwey hits it.

Obviously the speed won't be exactly the same, but I wonder whether we'll see much difference in the dipping of the ball between the robot and Pnachtwey's shot?

Cheers,
Greg

 

[Suga D]

The camera isn't fast enough to see the spin

Hard to believe a grown up man can post such things.

Still can't stop laughin'

 

[NextLevel]

DTopSpirit,

Pnatchwey is a firm believer that since you go against the spin when looping topspin, the situation would be an apples to oranges comparison.

 

[SchemeSC]

In other words, one can apply a downwards force on the back spin ball by not matching the spin with an upwards stroke that is too slow. Wrap your pea brain around that one. You haven't seemed to grasp this concept throughout the whole thread.

Okay, so he admits that the ball can go downwards with a loop/roll type stroke if the swing speed doesn't match the spin of the incoming ball. He also admits that it is possible to absorb the rotational energy without swinging downwards, so essentially he is admitting that what Carl describes as Wally Green's "dummy loops" are indeed possible. I'm not sure why he thinks that not matching the spin of the ball is the ONLY way to make the ball go downward and lose spin, but so be it. Obviously if I looped with a SPOON and my swing speed more than 10x matched the spin of the ball, the ball would still go downwards.

At this point, I don't see where there's much more to discuss. He admits that it's at least possible that what we are telling him is happening COULD be happening, but he just says that it's not.

 

[NextLevel]

Well, maby this will help?
Engineer-flowchart 101!

Another classic internet TT troll (for me, there are six and I will list by initials of one of their many user names though they don't troll everywhere equally - PN, AH, SA, UP/SJ, BM, RA ) made a reappearance recently on another forum and he convinced me that I need to use the easy solution more.

So I am bowing out of the continual attempts to do the impossible - improve the incorrigible PNut's TT Level, both intellectually and physically. Have fun guys! Your responses to PNut have taught me a lot of intellectual TT, but my loop needs work!

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

As far as my swing being too slow. My swing took how many frames? You don't know do you? You are just grasping at straws.

No need for measurements. It is easy to see even though your racket is only in the frame for a short time (perhaps one eighth of your stroke) since you are hiding. It is easy to see that the top speed of your racket is slower than you think it is.


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[Killerspintt]

Honestly guys, this is the same and same fight other and other again. I also tried to explain, but sometime it is just impossible.
If he cannot see that there is close to NO SPIN comming out of his FH stroke, I think it's just impossible to discuss further. He just has to open his eyes, there is close to NO SPIN. I don't believe AT ALL that he doesn't see it (every single person here is seeing that there is no spin in is FH stroke, everyone but him), but still he is pretending that there is heavy spin, despite everyone seeing and telling him there is not : the guy is just dishonest.

What the point of arguing with such a person ? There is not.

It's too bad, because beeing engineer myself (also having a master degree in fundamental physics), and also coaching when I got time......I was in the mood to give advices to improve his technic and his understanding of table tennis, I even though it could have been great to see his improvements, his new strokes and seeing him getting more ball feeling (because he doesn't feel if he produces spin or not).

But seeing that he doesn't even admit a simple fact which anyone can see (there is NO SPIN), means that there is no possible constructible discussion with him.

I just hope, nobody here became disgusted by physics and engineers, we are not like that.....when our own video is obviously proving that we are wrong.......we admit that we are wrong somewhere, usually......and we don't call people "fools" or "stupid" because they don't know what the second law of Newton is.

 

[Suga D]

Honestly guys, this is the same and same fight other and other again. I also tried to explain, but sometime it is just impossible.
If he cannot see that there is close to NO SPIN comming out of his FH stroke, I think it's just impossible to discuss further. He just has to open his eyes, there is close to NO SPIN. I don't believe AT ALL that he doesn't see it (every single person here is seeing that there is no spin in is FH stroke, everyone but him), but still he is pretending that there is heavy spin, despite everyone seeing and telling him there is not : the guy is just dishonest.

What the point of arguing with such a person ? There is not.

It's too bad, because beeing engineer myself (also having a master degree in fundamental physics), and also coaching when I got time......I was in the mood to give advices to improve his technic and his understanding of table tennis, I even though it could have been great to see his improvements, his new strokes and seeing him getting more ball feeling (because he doesn't feel if he produces spin or not).

But seeing that he doesn't even admit a simple fact which anyone can see (there is NO SPIN), means that there is no possible constructible discussion with him.

I just hope, nobody here became disgusted by physics and engineers, we are not like that.....when our own video are obviously proving that we are wrong.......we admit that we are wrong somewhere, usually......and we don't call people "fools" or "stupid" because they don't know what the second law of Newton is.

Ha... Beautiful. Thanks a lot.

A Spinkiller gets to know his limits by a Killerspin....

Sorry guys, just can't stop makin' jokes anymore cause i can't take Peter seriously anymore.

I think i'm gonna make a song of this. But first change my name to PNutty (hope Diddy won't trouble me)
The first hit single would be a cover song from the eighties.

You spin me.....

 

[Liten]

Hahaha! This is such an epic thread!

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Honestly guys, this is the same and same fight other and other again. I also tried to explain, but sometime it is just impossible.
If he cannot see that there is close to NO SPIN comming out of his FH stroke, I think it's just impossible to discuss further. He just has to open his eyes, there is close to NO SPIN. I don't believe AT ALL that he doesn't see it (every single person here is seeing that there is no spin in is FH stroke, everyone but him), but still he is pretending that there is heavy spin, despite everyone seeing and telling him there is not : the guy is just dishonest.

What the point of arguing with such a person ? There is not.

It's too bad, because beeing engineer myself (also having a master degree in fundamental physics), and also coaching when I got time......I was in the mood to give advices to improve his technic and his understanding of table tennis, I even though it could have been great to see his improvements, his new strokes and seeing him getting more ball feeling (because he doesn't feel if he produces spin or not).

But seeing that he doesn't even admit a simple fact which anyone can see (there is NO SPIN), means that there is no possible constructible discussion with him.

I just hope, nobody here became disgusted by physics and engineers, we are not like that.....when our own video is obviously proving that we are wrong.......we admit that we are wrong somewhere, usually......and we don't call people "fools" or "stupid" because they don't know what the second law of Newton is.

That is as good a post as it gets. Thanks. Killerspintt.


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[UpSideDownCarl]

Killerspintt, you are right on all counts. And I really appreciate your posts. They have all been phenomenal.

There is really no use arguing with someone who just wants to argue and can't conceive it possible to get the results he is getting. Somehow it seems he thinks getting the ball over the net proves that it still has the same spin it had when he received it. But it is very easy to slow down or kill the spin on the ball with modern, grippy rubbers.

In fact, topspinning heavy backspin actually takes a lot of technique and good timing. It takes touch, it takes feeling, it takes an ability to make delicate precise contact where you control precisely how far the ball sinks into the sponge without hitting the wood.

And just putting the ball back with very little spin takes very little technique. All you need is to not make delicate, precise contact.

Anyway, thanks again for your contributions.

I really do absolutely love that video with Marcos Freitas. It is just mind-blowing how much you can accomplish with that kind of feeling and touch.


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[Der_Echte]

Carl & Co have run me plumb out of popcorn three weeks ago... supply system cannot replenish sufficiently in real time.

 

[Rajah*]

[emoji25] i think i wont be interested in matching the spin on the ball. Id rather loop more apply more power pulling that ball more and put an arc place it into SAFETY and let it KICK afta the bounce. So that i could prepare myself for a much bigger and stronger attack. If we are to match the spin on the ball like what you said sir then we will suffer the same sore eye video like you did show us, and the chances of getting the ball to the otherside will be just like you. Oh have you tried a sitting position while looping a ball? Its nice to watch seeing a player perform that.

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[Baal]

Is there a Las Vegas betting line yet, an over-under on how long this thread will go? 12 pages already.

 

[SchemeSC]

Speaking of the frietas video, have any of you ever attemped the "bounce the ball off the side of the table" trick? Holy crap, I tried it today and couldn't last more than 2 shots on that one. At first I was most amazed by the "backspin catcher", but after attempting both I'm not so sure that this one isn't even more impossible... at least for me.

I think we should have a contest to see what's the most number of bounces anyone can get. I would love to see your guys' attempts to do this.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Speaking of the frietas video, have any of you ever attemped the "bounce the ball off the side of the table" trick? Holy crap, I tried it today and couldn't last more than 2 shots on that one. At first I was most amazed by the "backspin catcher", but after attempting both I'm not so sure that this one isn't even more impossible... at least for me.

I think we should have a contest to see what's the most number of bounces anyone can get. I would love to see your guys' attempts to do this.

Yep. That is pretty crazy how good he is at it. I would try it with a wall for a while before attempting it with the edge of the table.

Sooooo much control.

All of those things demonstrate total control and mastery of how you touch and contact the ball.

How easily he controls the ball from FH to BH or when he balances the ball on the edge. Catching the ball from that far away and having it stop perfectly is also pretty wild.

But in the backspin catcher, the way he is keeping the ball so that it makes so many tiny contacts but keeps spinning!!!! That is so freakin' much touch, feeling and control.

I love that video.


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[Suga D]

Speaking of the frietas video, have any of you ever attemped the "bounce the ball off the side of the table" trick? Holy crap, I tried it today and couldn't last more than 2 shots on that one. At first I was most amazed by the "backspin catcher", but after attempting both I'm not so sure that this one isn't even more impossible... at least for me.

I think we should have a contest to see what's the most number of bounces anyone can get. I would love to see your guys' attempts to do this.

Haha. I also had to try this after seeing that video. And exactly the same result like you.
But i keep doing it and slowly (real slowly) i'm starting to improve. But i also practice on walls, furniture, mirrors.

But still not good enough to expose on video yet.

We should open up a new thread for this...