Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

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Hahaha. The first one is the exact same terrible angle from the first video that ensures that you can't really see certain aspects of your technique because it eliminates depth perception on the lateral aspects of the stroke. All we can clearly judge is forward and back movement and cannot see for sure if you are taking s stroke or pushing forward.

The second one shows a different bad angle where the camera is zoomed in a bit too much and it is still from the side even though it is the FH side this time instead of the BH side. These angles ensure that there are aspects of your stroke that can't fully be seen.

What can be seen is the level is not a significant change from last time. That you still are struggling to achieve a rally of over 3 hits. And that you reach for the ball with your racket and upper body before you move your feet and then your feet move after you are unbalanced and reaching. So your feet can't move properly.

And even though we can't see it clearly from the side view, it looks like you are often still pushing forward with the FH instead of taking a stroke. And that your arm is pretty stiff and the angle of the elbow does not change much through the stroke.

I would give you props for posting video. But I can't think of how many posts I made where I said:

1) hand the camera to someone
2) film from the far side of the table so we can see your stroke from the front.
3) don't film from the side

And here we have footage exclusively from the side eliminating depth perception in your strokes.

All that being said, I will still give you props for posting video and simply assume that the terrible angles are because your brain wasn't functioning properly.

I am looking forward to footage of serve practice and footage taken from an angle where you can be seen from head on. Now that you posted this and it shows such similar results as the footage from 6 months ago, hopefully you will be inspired to take more footage that shows your actual skill level in a better light. [emoji2]


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says Spin and more spin.
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Critique welcome on technique. I know my footwork is lazy and wonky, mostly due to the opponent, but bad strokes are not excusable.

It is not that your footwork is lazy or wonky. It is that you reach with your racket, then with your body, then when you are off balance and reaching, your feet are forced to move but they can't move the way they are supposed to because you are off balance.

You track the ball with your hand. Over time you work on learning to track the ball with your feet and your hand so you don't reach. But man that is hard to learn and do, unless you start playing at 6 years old when you can't reach without moving your feet too.

But don't worry about it. Keep playing and working on stuff.

You see, improvement in table tennis is slow and takes a lot of hard work. Things don't change and happen the way your words present them.

The small change from 6 months ago till now is still valuable because you have a better idea of what you are still not doing. Whereas, back then you thought you were flawlessly using Ma Long technique just like Siva S. [emoji2]




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Carl, you know that the rally doesn't go on because he either nets the ball or puts it out? I'm trying to be as nice as I can with my shots but it still happens. What can I say. I'd get way better footage if one of the better players was on cam.

Everything you said is right. I'm well aware of the pushing instead of swinging: I can do a real swing in drills but very rarely do I get a quality swing in during games. I think I'm just gonna have to work on it and keep trying to keep form.

Playing with weaker players really hinders that, because I'm kind of forced to "push up" if I want my shots to be weak enough with an arc. That's why the racket isn't really doing a full swing, more so it's going up by my side. Is there some way to do a proper stroke at much lower ball quality?

If I close the racket angle and do more of a swing, I'm gonna need to swing harder to get the ball over the net, because more energy needs to go upwards and forwards along with spinning the ball. If I keep my angle open but produce good racket head speed, I'll either go out or produce too much spin for my opponent to handle.

Having heavier topspin come back from my opponent would probably help: I can borrow off it. But surely I can do slow rallies with good form even against relatively weak topspin? It always just ends up in this kind of "topspin lifting". I think I really need a "medium ground" to develop upon, a proper 60 - 70% power shot.


Carl, the level improvement doesn't look like much because at my level, everything's gonna look completely shit, but there's a lot of stuff that you don't see on cam in rallies like this. Blocking ability, pushes, long serve attack confidence, highest quality of serve, serve deception (There was none at all in these videos, not necessary), adapting against varying spins etc.

I can guarantee you that I can 11-0 my old self with my glasses off, for hours. It just doesn't look like it.:rolleyes:

If there's been some improvement, it's in the serves for sure.

Also, about the reaching:

How would I go about starting to fix this? Do I just begin with consciously trying to move my legs first at a little slower pace and work up from there?
 
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Because I haven't posted a video of me playing in a long time
Just one game tho and not a good one. But just for the sake of putting up some content :)
There were about two not too bad rally's, I think the last two balls.

Nice video Boogar. As some others already mentioned, that's really a nice place to play. It's your own table and you rent the space or something like that? At a club I would expect to see more tables :)

Btw, you're not using your Vega Pro blade anymore? What's the reason for that?
 
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Oh christ. I took the objective way and just freeze framed some shots from the video to see exactly when stuff moves.

Picture 1, at this frame I hear the sound of my opponent hitting the ball.
example 1.jpg

My upper body and arm are CLEARLY moving first and my legs haven't moved a bit! No matter how you look at it, it's like that.

Picture 2, I contact with the ball roughly around here. I am moving AWAY from the direction I want to do the stroke!

example 2.jpg

Picture 3, I am in the air slightly, moving backwards and in my follow through. Most of my body's energy is going back and to the side. I have not heard the ball impacting the table or my opponent's racket, yet.

example 3.jpg

Picture 4, I am on the ground and off balance, and I hear the opponent hit the ball.

example 4.jpg

Now would be the time to play a hook into my wide forehand and there's nothing I could do about it.


This needs to be fixed.


Thanks a lot for pointing this out, Carl.

EDIT: I noticed in many shots where I have a lot of time to get in position, while my legs do move slightly ahead, I am still WAY behind from what I should be. I need to get it in my head that footwork and strokes are separate, done in succession.
 
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@Archo: Isn't there a table tennis club somewhere near your home?

The nearest club is in Helsinki, and it's not much of a club, more-so a training center. Although there might be one or two clubs in Helsinki that I just don't know of. The expenses alone would bleed me dry. :(



example 1.jpg
example 2.jpg
example 3.jpg

Although I'm pretty sure Der was expecting the pop up, there's no reason I can't get in position before I hit the ball if a 100kg behemoth can. ;)

You could argue that the shot is easy to move to because it's high, but I'm going to argue that Der was well placed on the ground before he started his forward swing. I'm pretty sure I'm usually not, on balls like this.
 
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Nice video Boogar. As some others already mentioned, that's really a nice place to play. It's your own table and you rent the space or something like that? At a club I would expect to see more tables :)

Btw, you're not using your Vega Pro blade anymore? What's the reason for that?

Thanks :) We are playing in our club hall. Almost no one comes to train so we have heaps of space :) It wasn't an official training time tho.

Jea I started using my former blade the Stiga allround classic. Even though i liked the vega pro blade very much it was too fast for me. In practice it worked nicely, but in matches the consistency falls apart. So i rather get one more ball back on the table. Even if its not a rocket.

Maybe i will switch back... testing testing :)
 
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So today i played one of my best matches against a player i have never even dreamed of competing against!

He is a very good two winged looper. We had a great match up to 5 games and i won it 13:11 :D Was so much fun. I never had an opponent who could loop so hard and consistent.( except NL, but he was too good for me back then anyways :)

We had some of the coolest topspin rally's! His game consisted of a lot long serves with side topspin bouncing into his forehand. After i killed some i started missing them. So i soft blocked them in a uncomfortable angle into his wide forehand. Then he mostly looped it to my wide forehand. Knowing this i stepped back and ripped one counter-topspin after the other :) That's how i won.

I still have the problem of a too low finishing position. Some of the counter loops looked really awkward because of that >.<

Later on i played with an old player who has pretty nice serves with a annoying length. I always struggled to rip them with my forehand. In the process of playing i looked to the right and observes the best two players of our club playing. ( They almost never appear :O) Then i notices something. One of them used a different angel or grip against long top/sidespin balls. He would angle the racket more down without turning the whole forearm. He only turned the wrist more.

I tried this and promptly had success with it! need to experiment with it :)
 
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I went and played as a substitute for B grade pennant tonight. I thought it might end in a better result as I had alot of playing hours last week from the unigames comp that ran for days. But as I got to the arena, I just feel tired. Not sure if I am just not motivated, but I cant track balls properly, eyelids were drooping down. At that moment, I just wanna sit down and rest instead of playing, a very weird feeling that I have not had before. I feel like I can be making all sorts of excuses, but that was how I felt.

Anyway, first singles: against a girl who had her dad as coach. I had a good start even though I am not feeling great, led by 2-1, but then lost 2-3 in the end. She figured out to serve to my middle point. Haha, I thought middle point was for shakehanders! But I guess since I use RPB quite exclusively, it works on me too.. And coupled with me not thinking straight, i lost some very close games like 11-9, even though I caught up like crazy in the last set from 8-4 or 9-3... Next time I will be more aware of that strategy and be more prepared to use my forehand, or use my backhand but change the placement direction. Does anyone have any good advice as to how I should better prepare myself? Maybe stand back a bit more?

Against second player: A backhand long pimps shakehander. I had a superb start, won first game 11-1. Then lost the remaining games, 3-1.. had some very close games like 11-9.. Seems like I just cant close games after I caught up.
I think I understand the principles, but just couldn't think clearly at times. One question is, if i serve backspin serve, and then he sideway glide the ball, the ball should not have any backspin back right?

Doubles: I was feeling quite down already having lost the 2 singles. Won first set, but then lost the remaining 3. Nothing significant to note.

Last singles: Penholder that does not have RPB. I got to the stage, where I am just angry at myself. Not angry at why I lose, but more about the condition I am in, the state of feeling tired / not motivated. But anyway, as I start that match, I started to feel better, as I had a relatively longer break between my last match, so I felt more energized, and I can concentrate better now. As I can think better, I started adding in some serve deceptions that I learned from unigames, that just made my lead even bigger, so I won 3-0.



I love playing against junk rubbers. They're so fun to play against. I love seeing their shocked faces as I perfectly read their 'confusing spins' and punish their shots.

As for your question about the long pips sideways glide, it sort of depends on the player and the length of the pips. In general, if the backspin is strong enough, long pips will generally give back some topspin. However, if your serve doesn't have enough spin, it will probably just come back as no spin.

So to answer your question: It mostly depends on what YOU DO.

***
More info:
However, some players that are good can actually vary spin on their shot, although it is really hard. A lot of long pip players can both reverse and cancel spin to some extent. Very few players can send back underspin from underspin (it is very rare).

If you can't think clearly, then there's not much I can help you with. But you should definitely try to plan out how you would respond every time you serve or hit to the pips. Generally, try to serve long to long pips (not always though).


************

I think I know why you lost the next three games.

I don't really know how you play, but I'm guessing either

1) you beat the player with aggressive shots. After winning 11-1, you probably stopped playing aggressively, thinking that you would be able to win with just not-so-aggressive shots.

2) you beat the player by outlasting them. After winning 11-1, you became more confident and made aggressive shots.

Either way, I'm guessing that you changed your playstyle after winning 11-1. I would too, but I would only do so after a big lead, like 10-2 or something. Give your 100% when it is 0-0.
 
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Archo, comparing yourself to Der_Echte, that is risky business no matter how you look at it. Hahaha.

First up: if you are still standing there and holding your followthrough when your opponent is hitting the ball, then you have zero reset. You should be reset and in a ready position to move and backswing for either a FH or a BH AS YOUR BALL LANDS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE TABLE. That you have not reset while opponent is making contact is WAYYYYYYY LATE.

Second up: at least you are admitting now that your FH is often a push forward rather than a stroke like I show in that self hit video I made to show Siva the same issue. I remember you swearing up and down that it was a stroke. You claimed your shadow strokes showed what you do when the ball is there. So, that is a big step.

That push forward, the reaching with the racket and then leaning with the upper body instead of moving your feet, they all have to do with low level tracking and intercepting skills. When you are at risk of missing the ball, having the racket go from behind the ball, straight forward into the ball is easier than taking a stroke where the only point where the path of the stroke and the path of the ball can collide is within a 3-4 cm range around where the racket does collide with the ball.

Whereas, with that push forward stroke, if your timing is off, you are still quite likely to make contact because the path of the racket and the path of the ball line up with each other.

For the leaning, the feet and the push forward stroke, what you need to do is a semi-random 2 point drill where, for every ball, you need to adjust your feet a few inches to the left or right. But where the placement is not the same exact two spots so you need to adjust to the precise placement for each ball.

And, sorry to say, for that, you would probably need A COACH.

In all your statements and arguments about how much your level has changed, HOPEFULLY, you are starting to understand the point about how, in reality, changes in level and technique take a very long time to be VISIBLE!!!!!

So, for all your talk the past few days about how the next video would be unrecognizable next to the first video, in terms of player technique, really it is very much in the same ballpark.

And, in fact, when you posted the first video, you had all these excuses about why it was not representative of your play. And yet, it really compares with this new video in many ways and on many levels.

Keep working. That is the important thing. But the next time you are critiquing someone else's technique, remember this.

If you were a humble guy who didn't like to tell 2100 level players that they lack deception in their serves, all I would be saying here is, "Good job posting video!"

If you hadn't implied that you and strangeloop where the same basic level as you were dishing out random, ridiculous coaching advice when players who actually know what they are talking about said "your technique is solid", all I would be saying here is, "keep up the good work!"

But given the outrageous number of posts where you have implied your level is vastly different than it is while criticizing other people's level of play, where you have implied that the amount of improvement you have made in the last 6 months is nothing short of through the roof and over the top, ALL I CAN SAY is, you would do well to get coaching. IT REALLY WOULD HELP.

And hopefully you may start realizing how hard it is, and how much work it takes, to make improvements, one little increment at a time.

When I get the opportunity to play with guys who are as good as NextLevel, Der_Echte, PPH, Edmund, SmashFan, Croitoroo, etc, I am consistently humbled and made to realize just how much skill this game/sport you need to develop.


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Hah, I guess there is not much alike. I was just pointing out the similarities that should be there. ;)


It does make sense, the intercepting thing.

In drills, or otherwise a very controlled environment that I'm completely comfortable in, I can do a good stroke. There is no real practical risk of missing and even if I do miss I can just do it again. However in a game, I guess that assurance is taken away, and the pushing starts to happen.

The only thing I can do about this and my footwork is to just work on it and force it. I am good at changing habits. I might not be able to perform very well without professional coaching, but I'm certain I can at least change my habit from "Reach badly at the ball" to "Step badly at the ball".

I guess the best thing I can do is just stop caring about missing and start caring more about doing things right. Probably, if I don't take any stroke until I am at least mostly set on my feet, and simply do not swing at all until I am, I will start to recognize the difference and something might stick. Does this make any sense?
 
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When I get the opportunity to play with guys who are as good as NextLevel, Der_Echte, PPH, Edmund, SmashFan, Croitoroo, etc, I am consistently humbled and made to realize just how much skill this game/sport you need to develop.

I wish it was just skill - sometimes it is raw patience and guidance and a willingness to put in the hours when nothing seems to be changing. And you need a feedback system or nothing will ever change.

On one of my recent attempts to fix the pendulum elbow problem, here is my coach:

It's getting better. Your shadow swings are great however you're still lifting the elbow marginally during the swing. I know that you know all this. It will be interesting to see how long it takes to reach perfection.

That's why it's better to do the right thing immediately, IMO, or some form of it. Hard to fix bad habits in this game.
 
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In drills, or otherwise a very controlled environment that I'm completely comfortable in, I can do a good stroke. There is no real practical risk of missing and even if I do miss I can just do it again. However in a game, I guess that assurance is taken away, and the pushing starts to happen.

I have to be honest, I would have to see it to believe it. Your ability to actually track the ball, read where it is going, get there, judge the spacing accurately and intercept the ball, is shown to be pretty bad in this video. Those are not hard balls that you are out of position for. If you are having trouble tracking balls from a player who you claim is so much lower level than you, in a drill environment with someone who is approximately your level, there is no way, either you or your training partner can place the ball well enough or consistently enough for the drill to not have a random element that causes you to do the push forward stroke.

Until I see footage that shows otherwise you can't convince me that you have training partners you can do drills well with not fall into this habit that you clearly have. Going to the club and hiring a coach is your best option.

You would be well served with more TT play with real players and less idle boasting on the forum.

Now I'm going to go hit a ball around with one of the women from one of my yoga classes. I will decide later if I post photos thereby giving my wife to reason to electrocute me.

The funniest part will be my jobbing skillz. She totally thinks she can play and she totally cannot. [emoji2] The real skill will be to have her keep those delusions in tact despite the occasional hook shot around the net.

--"Oh golly, lucky shot!"


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The name of the video does sound very suspicious .... Night Time ping pong at Spin with Nicole :)

I have to be honest, I would have to see it to believe it. Your ability to actually track the ball, read where it is going, get there, judge the spacing accurately and intercept the ball, is shown to be pretty bad in this video. Those are not hard balls that you are out of position for. If you are having trouble tracking balls from a player who you claim is so much lower level than you, in a drill environment with someone who is approximately your level, there is no way, either you or your training partner can place the ball well enough or consistently enough for the drill to not have a random element that causes you to do the push forward stroke.

Until I see footage that shows otherwise you can't convince me that you have training partners you can do drills well with not fall into this habit that you clearly have. Going to the club and hiring a coach is your best option.

You would be well served with more TT play with real players and less idle boasting on the forum.

Now I'm going to go hit a ball around with one of the women from one of my yoga classes. I will decide later if I post photos thereby giving my wife to reason to electrocute me.

The funniest part will be my jobbing skillz. She totally thinks she can play and she totally cannot. [emoji2] The real skill will be to have her keep those delusions in tact despite the occasional hook shot around the net.

--"Oh golly, lucky shot!"


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Hahaha. I thought I posted this here. But I posted it in the NYC Mission thread. Hahaha.

Well, it deserves to be here too.

Just in case you guys thought I was doing the Archosaurus and talking smack I couldn't back up: proof of my Tuesday evening mission.


Now let's talk about honey traps and the goon squad.


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Archo, comparing yourself to Der_Echte, that is risky business no matter how you look at it. Hahaha.



And, sorry to say, for that, you would probably need A COACH.



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I think Archos clearly said that if a 100 kg behemoth like Der_Echte can move to an acceptable position to hit a ball, Archo (or anyone can).

That is what I got from Archo's post and man, 100 kg behemoth... yup, good description of me. NL calls himself a lumberjack, so we are all in the same slow moving boat, but at least we are moving. Heck, master Robert Chen sez he has footwor of a dinosaur, but it is a bad-azz dinosaur and it is still proper footwork. Man, we gotta go see him, I GOTTA be at a higher level than the last time I visited his club.

Does Archo need a coach? Well, did Hillary delete tens of thousands of official emails? Does Der_Echte need a coach? Affirmative, Ghost Rider. Whisky 7 out.
 
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