Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Ilia Minkin]

but I have generally found table tennis players to be very individualistic ... since the team game culture is not there like Europe , there is less camaraderie going around ....

I think that it varies from club to club, but competetive (in the bad sense) atmosphere in some clubs is just so unfriendly. To the point that it sometimes just becomes a wonderful illustration of the crab mentality. I saw this kind of thing in Russian clubs as well.

 

[Boogar]

Even tho it was cold af i couldn't resist to get out and hit some balls! I tested a rasant grip 1,9mm on the forehand.
Ofc I played with two red sides - outdoor style xD I have to say that i really liked it, but its hard to actually tell as the rubber was very cold and we played on a stone table.

Lets see what i can figure out in the training tomorrow

 

[NextLevel]

Ah - got it. Yes, I know him - actually we played for the first time ever at the tournament last week. Lost 0:3 but it was respectable, 10, 5 and 9 (and I was up 9:7 in the last game , but...).

Given the amount of spin that man generates, that is impressive for a chopper.

 

[NextLevel]

So I finally settled on using the Tibhar Kim Jung Hoon as my Nexy blade, currently with Karis M on both sides. Very controllable and consistent set up with good spin. Will continue to explore it for a while. Haven't lost a match with it yet but I have also played the more dangerous opponents so far with my IF ALC. Like the first real test will be the Tuesday league.

My touch has gotten better since I worked in doing the pancake drill with spin. I have a much better idea of what is required to borrow incoming spin and I now realize that sometimes, I try too hard to get spin when pushing.

I was teaching a friend how to serve yesterday and he said he had issues serving heavy backspin with inverted having used tacky rubbers for a while on his forehand. I explained to him that this is a common problem that people confuse the feeling of what is happening with what is happening. To get spin, you always need to deform the rubber, but the feeling of deforming tacky rubber is different and leads to people trying to get similar feelings, rather than trying to consistently deform the rubber. One advantage of using softer rubbers initially than hard tacky rubbers (though soft tacky rubbers do exist) is that it is easier to feel the contact depth and elasticity of the rubber with them (IMO).

 

[Der_Echte]

One of the reasons I like the higher toss (Heck, I am known as high toss servy B*stard)is that is is easier foor the ball to get wrapped into the topsheet, so i can catch and sling it to get my spin (with a loose grip).

 

[ttmonster]

I am having the same issue especially with the simple short backspin , especially if I try to do it with a horizontal blade . I can get the feeling when I serve in doubles or go around the ball with reverse action but not consistently when I am trying to serve short backspin to the forehand corner ... how do I get the feeling ? more practice ?

So I finally settled on using the Tibhar Kim Jung Hoon as my Nexy blade, currently with Karis M on both sides. Very controllable and consistent set up with good spin. Will continue to explore it for a while. Haven't lost a match with it yet but I have also played the more dangerous opponents so far with my IF ALC. Like the first real test will be the Tuesday league.

My touch has gotten better since I worked in doing the pancake drill with spin. I have a much better idea of what is required to borrow incoming spin and I now realize that sometimes, I try too hard to get spin when pushing.

I was teaching a friend how to serve yesterday and he said he had issues serving heavy backspin with inverted having used tacky rubbers for a while on his forehand. I explained to him that this is a common problem that people confuse the feeling of what is happening with what is happening. To get spin, you always need to deform the rubber, but the feeling of deforming tacky rubber is different and leads to people trying to get similar feelings, rather than trying to consistently deform the rubber. One advantage of using softer rubbers initially than hard tacky rubbers (though soft tacky rubbers do exist) is that it is easier to feel the contact depth and elasticity of the rubber with them (IMO).

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Lots of insight from high level players is awesome to recieve.

....however, its also true , its not easy to get good table tennis players to spill their beans , the culture might be a little different in the east coast , but in bay area I have seldom seen people are forthcoming....

I am not so sure it is different here. But, some of this has to do with who I am and that I am a character. Or maybe something I don't understand. However it happened, I am friends with Mark and Mike. But I am not sure they are like that to too many people. How could they actually just have time to be.

And when they get busy, I don't see them. That is how things are. Heck, when I get busy, I don't see a lot of people who are still friends.

And, you know, it is strange....in some way I have learned most of what I know on my own. And in another way, I have had A LOT of help. The amount of real coaching I have had is minimal. And I am confident that I would benefit a lot if I could play with a coach once or twice a week for several months.

I never really had that but I had something different. I am not sure what Edmund did with me to fix my FH was exactly coaching. But in some way it was more than coaching. He showed me what was wrong with my FH; how to break it down and start entirely from the beginning; how to start by adding what was missing.

He hit with me a decent amount. But I also got on a robot and did weird forearm FH after FH over and over until I could add the forearm with the body movement and not go back to the old stroke.

And I think that actually has something to do with why those guys are friends of mine. While we were hitting yesterday at some point Mike said, it is fun to hit with someone who really just likes to play. Which, in a way means that a lot of the guys on this thread could end up having the same kind of thing happen.

These guys see that it makes me happy to do the hard stuff that helps get you good. And they click with that attitude. When I can take lessons with Paul David he has said plenty of times that he has fun working with me because of the same thing.

The kid in me wishes I had more time to play these days. But I don't. However, when I do get to play, it definitely makes me happy.

So maybe when these guys see that, instead of seeing someone they feel is asking for more information or something extra, when they see someone who is just having fun and willing to work on the stuff they are weak at, these guys find it a nice change of pace.
When I teach people yoga, these days I don't ask what they want to work on. I just go straight to what I can see they need to work on.

I know when Paul David asked what my goals were and what I wanted from working with him, I told him he was the coach and that I wanted him to have me work on whatever he saw I needed to work on. Which is not that different from what I told Mike yesterday. He asked the same basic question and how I said it was that I like working on the stuff I am not good at and improving my weaknesses. Which is what made him decide to work on the multiball drill that got me to track and adjust my feet to each separate ball.

Before that we warmed up and then I had him push my serve random for me to open. And after that I focused a little on BH opening. And then I had him show me a new return for short reverse spin to my FH. And after that is when he asked me. And we worked on the footwork drill where I was trying to track the ball with my feet and get the correct spacing with each ball being different. In the midst of it, he saw that as I moved I was backswinging while moving and got me to try to move, and then when the spacing was what I thought was right, to turn open for FH and backswing or, for BH, to square and only backswing when the ball was in the hitting zone for extra pop.

Now I want to see Archosaurus turn this info into something it is not. Hahaha.



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[ttmonster]

That is exactly what I was thinking Carl, believe it or not it has a lot to do with who you are but then I left it for you to say it aloud ... but yes I totally agree that having the right attitude helps most of the time , it even helps in breaking down a lot of walls ... when somebody sees you are genuinely interested in improving and not bothered about whether or how you can beat so and so , people with the right mindset open up ...

 

[Der_Echte]

Monster, you need the right bat angle and acceleration, many players think they have that, but when you film them, you can show where the angle is not horizontal and the acceleration is not there.Loose grip, timing, penetration into topsheet are essential. The rest follows pretty easily from there. Difficult to get to that stage right away without crawl/walk/run progression... too much stuff to work out at the table if one tries it all at the same time.

I will be on the west coast in January it looks like... will likely drop down and pop into Almeda TTC on weekends... I take it you are a reasonable distance from there? I might once a month drive down to LA and listen to Sammy Haggar "I Can't Drive 55" all the way as well to see old friends every now and then.

 

[ttmonster]

Thanks Der_Echte ! Alameda TTC is around 42 miles / an hours drive from here , I will find a way to come down and meet you .... and any time you are in the san jose area , let me know as well ... we can do one of the leagues here , there are plenty of options to choose from .... ICC / Swan/ SVTCC / WCTTC / TopSpin ..

Monster, you need the right bat angle and acceleration, many players think they have that, but when you film them, you can show where the angle is not horizontal and the acceleration is not there.Loose grip, timing, penetration into topsheet are essential. The rest follows pretty easily from there. Difficult to get to that stage right away without crawl/walk/run progression... too much stuff to work out at the table if one tries it all at the same time.

I will be on the west coast in January it looks like... will likely drop down and pop into Almeda TTC on weekends... I take it you are a reasonable distance from there? I might once a month drive down to LA and listen to Sammy Haggar "I Can't Drive 55" all the way as well to see old friends every now and then.

 

[NextLevel]

I am having the same issue especially with the simple short backspin , especially if I try to do it with a horizontal blade . I can get the feeling when I serve in doubles or go around the ball with reverse action but not consistently when I am trying to serve short backspin to the forehand corner ... how do I get the feeling ? more practice ?

Short backspin to the forehand corner is a down the line serve. Unless you are a down the line serve specialist, the bounce distances can mess you up because they are slightly different.

The other issue as DerEchte pointed out is racket angle often being misconceived. You need to really open your angle up, sometimes to the point that your serving racket face is looking slightly backwards so you are contacting the bottom front of the ball. Start from there and make adjustments. Too many people serve side backspin and think they are serving backspin.

Finally, you should look at how to get racket head speed. DerEchte does short whip with high toss, I do short but heavy whip with low toss, and I can actually vary the size of my whip depending on where I am serving to. If you have seen my video where I share what Brett showed me is the ideal patter for serving, I use the smaller version to serve short to the forehand and the larger one to serve to most other places. But if I need the server to be short. I use the smaller one and return to be as under the ball as much as I can.

Yes it is practice but all you need to do is nail one serve and then try to replicate the feeling.

 

[ttmonster]

Thanks for the pithy pointers NL , the one about the bounce really got me , may be I am trying to bounce it too close to the net and that is causing issues, but I will try to work on it, I realized what you said below few days back and since then I have been searching for it ... I got it before I took a break with my reverse underspin but lost quite a bit of touch on serves during the break ...

on chit chat, just had a hours session with a friend who came down from Santa Cruz ... it was a very refreshing session for an hour and a half , he nailed me on the games but it was very refreshing playing and drilling with him. I noticed I was able to play rallies till I got him to use his anti on the backhand ( he is a lefty ) but then I was missing a lot of high balls close to then net flicks ... need to pay more attention to the change of rubber from forehand to backhand .. but all in all it was great fun ... just the right dose of table tennis I needed to keep me going ...

Yes it is practice but all you need to do is nail one serve and then try to replicate the feeling.

 

[Shuki]

I went on a 2 week break from table tennis only to come back better for some reason. Or so I thought. My backhand was better and I played to it. Yesterday, I went to the club and played fantastic for me. My coach had watched my matches. I went to lessons with her today (first time in a month and a half) and she informed me that my backhand seems to have improved quite a bit! But my forehand is completely broken and it used to be my stronger part of my game by far. After a grueling practice with her today, it was fixed (to my knowledge) and I went to play some high level players after practice (lowest out of the 4 players being 2020usatt, highest being 2083).

Played all four players, won 3, lost 1. First guy I obliterated 3-0 but he was also the weakest of them and I'm certain he had a poor day of play. Second I won 3-1, but we play often. He beat everyone else in the group so I don't think he was playing poorly, but certainly I wasn't given the same treatment as the better players. Third guy I lost 1-3, didn't feel close, didn't feel like I deserved the one game that I got. 4th game, I won 3-2, never beat this player before and it felt damn good. we finished our match and he said "I've never seen you play this good I wish I had time to play more but I have to go".

So what it feels like, is first of all, my coach is the smartest person in the world, coaches are great.
Secondly, me realizing I was a backhand dominant player improved my backhand quite a bit.
But then realizing oh snap, I'm not backhand dominant I just have a messed up forehand right now, getting my forehand fixed, the backhand held and made me better.

Obviously, I'm peaking right now as I consider myself quite low level. So here's my chitchat question for you all.

How often do you change your playing style? I change constantly it feels like, in some ways it feels like it helps me be more well rounded, in others it makes me think I'd be better off if I just stuck with one style.

 

[ttmonster]

I don't change my play style , I just keep doing adjustments to fix my weakness or trying to bring something new that I learnt into the game ... I don't have the athleticism to keep changing my game style ...

e.g I learnt on focusing on grip pressure, I will keep myself to stay loose and grip softly when I am receiving serves ....

I learnt that I don't cover my wide backhand so I would be conscious about it ... this is how I keep working on my game...

of course I would keep changing serves or where I serve from depending on my opponent but thats it ..

I went on a 2 week break from table tennis only to come back better for some reason. Or so I thought. My backhand was better and I played to it. Yesterday, I went to the club and played fantastic for me. My coach had watched my matches. I went to lessons with her today (first time in a month and a half) and she informed me that my backhand seems to have improved quite a bit! But my forehand is completely broken and it used to be my stronger part of my game by far. After a grueling practice with her today, it was fixed (to my knowledge) and I went to play some high level players after practice (lowest out of the 4 players being 2020usatt, highest being 2083).

Played all four players, won 3, lost 1. First guy I obliterated 3-0 but he was also the weakest of them and I'm certain he had a poor day of play. Second I won 3-1, but we play often. He beat everyone else in the group so I don't think he was playing poorly, but certainly I wasn't given the same treatment as the better players. Third guy I lost 1-3, didn't feel close, didn't feel like I deserved the one game that I got. 4th game, I won 3-2, never beat this player before and it felt damn good. we finished our match and he said "I've never seen you play this good I wish I had time to play more but I have to go".

So what it feels like, is first of all, my coach is the smartest person in the world, coaches are great.
Secondly, me realizing I was a backhand dominant player improved my backhand quite a bit.
But then realizing oh snap, I'm not backhand dominant I just have a messed up forehand right now, getting my forehand fixed, the backhand held and made me better.

Obviously, I'm peaking right now as I consider myself quite low level. So here's my chitchat question for you all.

How often do you change your playing style? I change constantly it feels like, in some ways it feels like it helps me be more well rounded, in others it makes me think I'd be better off if I just stuck with one style.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

So here's my chitchat question for you all.

How often do you change your playing style? I change constantly it feels like, in some ways it feels like it helps me be more well rounded, in others it makes me think I'd be better off if I just stuck with one style.

I have changed play style a few times along my long TT career. In my early years, i was just a FH hitter. i would always serve long and if could get the ball higher than the net, i would try to kill it with a flat hit, else FH topspin and try to kill the next ball. I wasn't able to do much with my BH apart passive block and pushes, but i was fast and could get a lot of balls with my FH and i got a very decent rating and still improving at the time.

Then i stopped playing competitively for a while, i lost my level, and i remember I was trying for a while to play like JOO, chop 2-3 balls and try to counterattack. I even tried long pimples. It was fun but i never understood how to use pimples apart from chopping.

Then (finally !) I started taking coaching lessons, and that meant going back to basics and more classical, learning to do BH, be more consistent.

even though i can defend with chops and i like to practice it a little, i don't go back anymore in matches to do that. i was still doing that 3 years ago from time to time. I would do it only in a practice or against a weaker player if i have a big lead, or if the set is already almost lost against a better player.

More recently with the coaches, we arrived at the conclusion that i was FH oriented but that i wouldn't be able to win good players this way because i wasn't quick enough with my legs, and i was getting tired throughout a match/competition and I was exposing too much my FH side after pivoting. So I have been working a lot to improve my BH, and become a more balanced player. I'm more and more trying opening shots with my BH. i would never do that 3 years ago.

Also, as for smaller adjustments, the conclusion right now is that my BH serve is better so i'm trying in matches to serve even more often with it. to become less FH-oriented my neutral position is closer to the middle of the table. I'm training to play an all-attacking game near the table although some say i shouldn't because my blocking game is very good and i shouldn't take so much risk in attacking first. My model of play would be like LIU Shiwen for example. I don't often go back from the table.

 

[NextLevel]

How often do you change your playing style? I change constantly it feels like, in some ways it feels like it helps me be more well rounded, in others it makes me think I'd be better off if I just stuck with one style.

You just don't know own your game. It is not a good thing to be an advanced players and not understand how you win or lose points. People in your club tend to know. Opponents who beat you tend to know where they get their points from. If you don't know, then you can play into their hands unwittingly.

I am a backhand player, I make my living off pounding the opponent's backhand and I made my forehand better just to keep people honest when going there so that they would not be able to just float a basic push to it to feel safe. I have gone for periods of my game when I pivoted a lot and played a lot of forehand third ball because I have put in a lot of hours of training on my forehand. But even with all that, all it takes for me to be reminded of my better side is to see where opponents serve to when the match is close and they really care about winning. The only person who tests my backhand repeatedly has one of the best back hands in the country. And I think after the last loss he had to me, he is probably realizing that there are easier ways to beat me than engaging in a backhand war.

So I am working on my forehand serve return variety. But even though I have a powerful forehand, my game revolves around my backhand and my ability to open on both sides makes me a threat against any player with radical imbalances in their game.

I have also worked extensively on my serves as my strokes are powerful enough to put away bad returns. But I need to earn those opportunities. It is a work in progress as I now have the serves but still need to learn the intricacies of how to optimally deploy them.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Okay guys, this is cooler than cool. I was playing at SPiN today and Mike peeked out of the private room with a big smile. The private room has an exit door right next to the table I was at. Anyway, he told me what he was doing. He was rehearsing something he called a table tennis concerto with Ariel Hsing. It is something they performed in China before. Anyway, I asked if he would introduce me since I know they have been friends for a while.

I have to say, she was all dressed up and she looked pretty darn hot. I always thought she was kind of pretty even dressed for a table tennis match. But dressed up like she was, she looked totally slamming.

ttmonster may know her since I think she is from San Jose. But it was cool to meet her.


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[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Okay guys, this is cooler than cool. I was playing at SPiN today and Mike peeked out of the private room with a big smile. The private room has an exit door right next to the table I was at. Anyway, he told me what he was doing. He was rehearsing something he called a table tennis concerto with Ariel Hsing. It is something they performed in China before. Anyway, I asked if he would introduce me since I know they have been friends for a while.

I have to say, she was all dressed up and she looked pretty darn hot. I always thought she was kind of pretty even dressed for a table tennis match. But dressed up like she was, she looked totally slamming.

ttmonster may know her since I think she is from San Jose. But it was cool to meet her.


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[Der_Echte]

Good shyt dude.

As for my changing style, Carl saw it a year ago as I turned into a FH loop or but player with almost no bh opening except vs serve.

I have been trying to stay in a better low stance and wait... still hard to do consistently, but it pays when I do.

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[UpSideDownCarl]

Hahaha. That's it.


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