Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Flatstyk]

But that's the thing - it's just a whip. If you crack a whip, this is the pattern you make. I have a better idea why you are calling it double but you don't crack a whip on the backswing.

NL, this is a fine bit of explanation. Cracking the whip is much more pronounced than mere whip mechanics, and I know that I, for one, will find greater clarity in visualizing the effect in serving if I remember to think about "cracking" the whip.

 

[Jirrex]

On second thought I'd rather let someone else have one of those first price blades because after looking them up, it's unlikely I'll use either of them. It'd probably end up just collecting dust on my shelf and eventually I'd have to sell it, which I'd rather not do. I'd prefer either of the blades to be given to someone that actually has some use for them.

Thanks NL for the generosity anyway .

That's really thoughtful Richie (not sure if that's the right word), you don't see that every day.

 

[Jirrex]

I have to ignore him but you don't.

BTW, Elias Ranfeur's BH serve is a new inspiration.

The main reason I bring this up was that there was a time I almost served all backhand. Brett was almost begging (threatening) me to stop serving backhand serves. Even when I thought I was serving more forehand serves, it would be at least 70% backhand.

I wonder, what's Brett's opinion on the backhand serve? In a video about whip mechanics, he finished with something like 'and if this is your thing (he was referring to the backhand serve) ... ...' if I remember correctly. To me it looked like that the backhand serve wasn't his favorite.

 

[NextLevel]

NL, this is a fine bit of explanation. Cracking the whip is much more pronounced than mere whip mechanics, and I know that I, for one, will find greater clarity in visualizing the effect in serving if I remember to think about "cracking" the whip.

Since you are new, you get a pass, but seriously, whip mechanics should be part of the language of this thread by now if people actually watched the videos I posted.

 

[NextLevel]

I wonder, what's Brett's opinion on the backhand serve? In a video about whip mechanics, he finished with something like 'and if this is your thing (he was referring to the backhand serve) ... ...' if I remember correctly. To me it looked like that the backhand serve wasn't his favorite.

It wasn't. USually, the way the body is designed, it is easier to get spin and variation with forehand serves than backhand serves, but the gap is not an absolute for each person given technique. That said, after facing his own backhand serve in the TTEdge app, Brett made a comment that he should probably have served backhand more than he did. That said, Brett is a lefty, so that probably affected his serve choices as well.

 

[Archosaurus]

@Boogar

So you've seen a ton of 2500+ players who serve many, or even perhaps mostly backhand serves? We might not be in the same year then, or I just haven't seen enough players.

I thought it was true that when you get closer to the elite levels, backhand serves are getting more and more rare compared to how often they were used a few decades ago. Is that wrong?

EDIT: I looked at the video you posted.

I see you've practiced backhands. Your forehand also has some whip developing: I can see that there is more spin. You did one slow, high loop at one point and I can recognize the spin arc from a no-whip shot. Good stuff.

 

[Boogar]

@Boogar

So you've seen a ton of 2500+ players who serve many, or even perhaps mostly backhand serves? We might not be in the same year then, or I just haven't seen enough players.

I thought it was true that when you get closer to the elite levels, backhand serves are getting more and more rare compared to how often they were used a few decades ago. Is that wrong?

The way you said it was like its a fact. Why don't you say: "I think" or "I get the impression..."

What I talked about is what I have seen on national and regional tournaments, where i have been there in person. That is talking out of stuff i had experienced.

It may be that it is like you said but at the same time it may not. We don't know...

I see you've practiced backhands. Your forehand also has some whip developing: I can see that there is more spin. You did one slow, high loop at one point and I can recognize the spin arc from a no-whip shot. Good stuff.

I haven't really practiced it. Its just that in matches im not confident. Or lets say it like this - I am either a bit confident in one of the two and never in both.
And let me ask you what is the difference in the spin arc of a whip and no- whip shot?

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Now I know how often people watch my videos. I have posted this video at least 3 times on this thread...

Hey, just because I said it is a good way of explaining it now, does not mean I did not watch it before.

Mike and Mark's special sauce is actually what you said was Mark's delayed whip. But that delayed whip makes it long. So it is different. But it takes the same S shape because it is a whip.

And it is interesting. Mark has been getting me to take a much bigger backswing than I used to. And I am not sure I feel whip or wrist snap. I am not even paying attention to it. But I am getting a lot more spin. So I will have to see what I am now doing on video.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Happy holidays guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Happy holidays guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To you and your loved ones as well!

------------------

Happy Holidays TTD CCers!!

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Not going to lie... i don't get a chance to watch all videos posted at the time they were posted ... but at some point, I do watch them ... given generally i don't have time to watch the videos while at home, i watch during lulls in workflow and because i'm at work, i generally have muted the audio or set to 1... so on instructionals, i don't get a chance to hear what is said. those i try to watch after everyone leaves or sneak a peak while at home.

IIRC, the first time NL posted the whip mechanics video was in answer to 42andbackpains. vaguely recall it was after early October, as that was when NL taught me and the 'checkmark' was the mental image i resonated with most, and despite being taught in person, and watching the video of the lesson, NL's new (at the time) video on whip mechanics presented it the best for me

EDIT: yesterday finally had a chance to watch JeffM's match vs his friend on his break from school - JeffM, i had one thought on your reverse pendulum serve I'll pm you

 

[Archosaurus]

@Boogar

It looks like you have: your followthrough is slightly different. Whatever it is, I don't see a reason to chicken out on your backhand because it can be good if you allow it to. I know you have the touch to loop on the backhand as well, and surely the racket head speed is there.

I have a backhand loop, but it turns into a hit when I'm pressured by someone good in a close to the table backhand rally. so I do understand where you're coming from.


I'm not sure I need to explain topspin arcs to you. Haven't you noticed it yourself when on some shots you get some whip and you can feel the rubber grabbing on, and the arc is much lower and tighter than if you wouldn't get such good contact?

Compare 10:50 and 11:35 for example. Imagine if you added some real wrist whip in.

 

[NextLevel]

The way you said it was like its a fact. Why don't you say: "I think" or "I get the impression..."

What I talked about is what I have seen on national and regional tournaments, where i have been there in person. That is talking out of stuff i had experienced.

It may be that it is like you said but at the same time it may not. We don't know...



I haven't really practiced it. Its just that in matches im not confident. Or lets say it like this - I am either a bit confident in one of the two and never in both.
And let me ask you what is the difference in the spin arc of a whip and no- whip shot?

Ignore our resident 2700 beginner, he thinks arguing is the best way to learn as he has no real experience of his own and gets the experiences of other when he reads or argues with them.

The strokes seem to have improved a bit but maybe it is the quality of opponent, but that is not bad either. Playing lower guys helps with technique.

I think you have to start being more confident in look at what the ball does when you make a mistake. When I make a mistake, I try to look at what happened and figure out how I should have hit the ball to fix the error. Many of the balls you are looping long, the spin is much lighter than you think and you can aggressively go through the ball instead of brushing it. You don't stay low enough to swing upwards all the time and even if so, you need to realize that when a ball goes long, you stroke should have been more back to front and the backswing should have been higher. With faster racket head speed and acceleration, many of your moonball loops on high balls will actually be devastating kills.

You have to remember that loops should be going forward and over the ball, no matter how you intend to play. Just lifting upwards almost never gets the job done. If you loop the ball lower and cover it more. It stays lower. It's something that can be practiced. Upward strokes or sideways without forward motion will get you into trouble.

 

[Boogar]

I wish you all happy Holidays!! I wish you all the best for your career, be it tt or normal life.
I am happy to have met you guys its always a highlight of my day to chat with you!

Cheers Boogar

 

[ttmonster]

Happy Holidays guys and to your families ! Will be around the forum for the last week and hoping to have one last swing at good old fashioned TTD chatting for 2016 ! Its always a pleasure !

 

[NextLevel]

I think you have to start being more confident in look at what the ball does when you make a mistake. When I make a mistake, I try to look at what happened and figure out how I should have hit the ball to fix the error. Many of the balls you are looping long, the spin is much lighter than you think and you can aggressively go through the ball instead of brushing it. You don't stay low enough to swing upwards all the time and even if so, you need to realize that when a ball goes long, you stroke should have been more back to front and the backswing should have been higher. With faster racket head speed and acceleration, many of your moonball loops on high balls will actually be devastating kills.

You have to remember that loops should be going forward and over the ball, no matter how you intend to play. Just lifting upwards almost never gets the job done. If you loop the ball lower and cover it more. It stays lower. It's something that can be practiced. Upward strokes or sideways without forward motion will get you into trouble.

I will give a couple of examples. One of the issues in my warmup is that I never learned to counterhit properly when I started playing. So I sometimes lift my counterhit on FH and BH and the ball arcs too much - it is also partly because I don't always get low enough. So whenever I am warming up and I see the ball arcing too much, I try to go forward more and backswing higher to reduce the arc and try to place the ball at the right location I want on the table. You have to try to fix your ball quality whenever you see it is off. As you get better, putting the ball on the table is not good enough.

Another example is when I am playing someone and I am always popping up the push. It just means that the ball has less backspin than I think it does and I am reading it wrong. I should stop pushing it and flick or loop it and I shadow that after I miss. But if I don't fix it, I accept that something I was reading was wrong. If you watch my match against Song that I posted, I often looped the ball and when he blocked it, I thought it had backspin but it was dead and if I pushed it, I popped it up and he attacked and gave me an even deader ball which I looped into the net very often but sometimes got over the net. You have to trust the way the ball is coming off your racket as an indication of what your stroke is doing and practice trying to fix it. If you don't, then you will not be able to adapt to the opponent's quality of spin as you will be swinging one way all the time.

So maybe I shouldn't have said only mistakes - in general, just look at your ball quality whenever playing in terms of trajectory and spin and ask yourself what it means based on how you read and intended to play the ball. Because if you do, there are balls that you will see which you may think are heavy but you can flatten out with spin if you adjust your swing by accelerating the wrist more powerfully forward.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Since you are new, you get a pass, but seriously, whip mechanics should be part of the language of this thread by now if people actually watched the videos I posted.

I want to have a poll about who uses the term "Whip Mechanics" more between NextLevel and Archosaurus! And then there is the question of whether Archo has ever actually done whip mechanics in a TT stroke. Other kinds of stroking, maybe.

 

[Archosaurus]

Carl, I know it's all fun and games and that's fine, but coming here to read a quality post from you on the subject that is being discussed, and then essentially being called a ****** and unskilled isn't exactly the TTD experience I'm looking for.

 

[Shuki]

Carl, I know it's all fun and games and that's fine, but coming here to read a quality post from you on the subject that is being discussed, and then essentially being called a ****** and unskilled isn't exactly the TTD experience I'm looking for.

Give arch the responses he wants, otherwise you're not using the forum right!

 

[NextLevel]

Give arch the responses he wants, otherwise you're not using the forum right!

There is an Archo in every club. What would the DTTCC thread be without him?