Blade for absolute starter

[NDH]

He's already getting some soft worn rubbers though so a premade will likely cost more than just a nice all round blade. Some pre mades are totally dead and not even worth a complete rank never played before beginner to play with, since they can't learn the strokes having to play them like a hardbat stroke.

Personally I think the Applegren Allplay has the best handle and feel of the all round blades I have tried.

Again, this is purely my opinion (and many others I've spoken to who coach new starters), but the misconception seems to be that the OP is doing his mate a favour by giving him the old, worn rubbers.

No idea what thickness they are, but if they are 2.1mm, they'll instantly be a hindrance, not a help.

You can get £10 bats from many UK shops which are perfect.

My son started playing a few weeks ago with one of these, and he can already do a competent forehand and backhand.

The kids in his class with "custom" bats from their parents who want them to have the best? Struggling massively.......

I'd forget about the old rubbers, I'd forget about buying an individual blade (for the first couple of months at least), and I'd just use an ugly, slow, dull pre made weapon costing £10.

If they stick with it, and develop the basics (I'm not sure if people remember just how long it can take to develop the basics), then sure - Then suggestions here would be a very good first custom bat.

 

[jawien]

Again, this is purely my opinion (and many others I've spoken to who coach new starters), but the misconception seems to be that the OP is doing his mate a favour by giving him the old, worn rubbers.

No idea what thickness they are, but if they are 2.1mm, they'll instantly be a hindrance, not a help.

You can get £10 bats from many UK shops which are perfect.

My son started playing a few weeks ago with one of these, and he can already do a competent forehand and backhand.

The kids in his class with "custom" bats from their parents who want them to have the best? Struggling massively.......

I'd forget about the old rubbers, I'd forget about buying an individual blade (for the first couple of months at least), and I'd just use an ugly, slow, dull pre made weapon costing £10.

If they stick with it, and develop the basics (I'm not sure if people remember just how long it can take to develop the basics), then sure - Then suggestions here would be a very good first custom bat.

NDH, £10 blades usually have poor quality rubbers and wood - it is almost a nonsense, specially for "serious" starters and you can not take the rubbers off easily. I've seen dozens kids playing very confident with Appelgren allplay or Waldner (the yellow handle), those blades give you a proper idea how the equipment should play.

 

[NDH]

NDH, £10 blades usually have poor quality rubbers and wood - it is almost a nonsense, specially for "serious" starters and you can not take the rubbers off easily. I've seen dozens kids playing very confident with Appelgren allplay or Waldner (the yellow handle), those blades give you a glimpse how a proper equipment should play.

I think we must all have slightly different opinions on what a "new starter" is.

Firstly - There is no such thing as a "serious" starter - No one knows if they will enjoy it, or stick with it (or even have the hand eye co ordination to do well).

My son is a prime example of that - I know he'll likely carry on playing for years, and he's got a much better chance of getting to a higher level quickly because of the 1-1 we do together. But when he hasn't played before, and is learning the strokes, he'll use the Stiga £10 pre made bat that I have for him (I've used it myself, and it offers enough spin and playability to make decent shots).

It's completely useless once you get past that very initial stage - But it allows him to play a full stroke with no help from the bat (he can already get a decent amount of top spin on his forehands after a few weeks of practice).

I also fully expect him to to be out of that bat in a few months time - If I hadn't explained previously, I don't expect anyone to keep the pre made bat for particularly long (how long will depend on how much they play/improve), and I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to try and change the rubbers.

I feel certain people (generally the forum folk who spend most of their time discussing equipment etc), probably have a slightly warped view on the situation.

Lastly - If a kid can "play confidently", they are already at the stage where an Appelgren would be great - I absolutely agree with that.

But if you go to a beginners class (and I mean a beginners class, not a "been playing for a few months" class), you will find no confident kids there - Only kids who want to smash the ball about and have no control over their arms.

Don't get me wrong, there really isn't a perfect way to go about it - Everyone is different, and there's a reason why China give their youngsters a Viscaria and T05/H3 whilst Europe are giving their kids an all wood blade with Sriver (for example).

 

[jawien]

I think we must all have slightly different opinions on what a "new starter" is.

Firstly - There is no such thing as a "serious" starter - No one knows if they will enjoy it, or stick with it (or even have the hand eye co ordination to do well).

My son is a prime example of that - I know he'll likely carry on playing for years, and he's got a much better chance of getting to a higher level quickly because of the 1-1 we do together. But when he hasn't played before, and is learning the strokes, he'll use the Stiga £10 pre made bat that I have for him (I've used it myself, and it offers enough spin and playability to make decent shots).

It's completely useless once you get past that very initial stage - But it allows him to play a full stroke with no help from the bat (he can already get a decent amount of top spin on his forehands after a few weeks of practice).

I also fully expect him to to be out of that bat in a few months time - If I hadn't explained previously, I don't expect anyone to keep the pre made bat for particularly long (how long will depend on how much they play/improve), and I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to try and change the rubbers.

I feel certain people (generally the forum folk who spend most of their time discussing equipment etc), probably have a slightly warped view on the situation.

Lastly - If a kid can "play confidently", they are already at the stage where an Appelgren would be great - I absolutely agree with that.

But if you go to a beginners class (and I mean a beginners class, not a "been playing for a few months" class), you will find no confident kids there - Only kids who want to smash the ball about and have no control over their arms.

Don't get me wrong, there really isn't a perfect way to go about it - Everyone is different, and there's a reason why China give their youngsters a Viscaria and T05/H3 whilst Europe are giving their kids an all wood blade with Sriver (for example).

Sure ... ironically I had a £10 pre made bat, not sure for how long, but the moment I tried my friend's equipment the light bulb went on in my mind. My racket and his was like a night and day. So my thinking is why should you engage in this stage (specially not being a kid) when you can go directly to something what is actually playable ...

"Serious" starter is a person who asks for help to find a "good feeling" blade ... ; )

 

[FruitLoop]

For kids just smashing the ball around, there is no difference between a crap pre made and a traditional good beginners set up, Grubba all and Sriver or whatever. But within a few short months there will be. Why not start with the second option when it's barely more money due to the help?

 

[NDH]

For kids just smashing the ball around, there is no difference between a crap pre made and a traditional good beginners set up, Grubba all and Sriver or whatever. But within a few short months there will be. Why not start with the second option when it's barely more money due to the help?

I think this comes down to opinion on what the equipment does/doesn't do for the new starter.

In my experience (and all I can go by is my experience, and the experience of other "starter" coaches), even something like Sriver right at the start can be too much.

Perhaps it would be OK for an adult starter who has more hand eye co ordination and better understanding of physics.

But I can guarantee that many juniors would struggle initially if they used those bats (certainly in the first 2/3 months of picking up a bat for the first time).

Like I said, I'm very happy to agree to disagree on this - We both have our ways we'd go about it, and neither one is right or wrong.

I'm very happy with how my son has progressed using a £10 Stiga bat, and I doubt he would have improved any quicker with Sriver.

I'll be buying him an all wood blade and Sriver in April - By which time he'll already have the basics of spin, and can develop even further.

 

[jawien]

I think this comes down to opinion on what the equipment does/doesn't do for the new starter.

In my experience (and all I can go by is my experience, and the experience of other "starter" coaches), even something like Sriver right at the start can be too much.

Perhaps it would be OK for an adult starter who has more hand eye co ordination and better understanding of physics.

But I can guarantee that many juniors would struggle initially if they used those bats (certainly in the first 2/3 months of picking up a bat for the first time).

Like I said, I'm very happy to agree to disagree on this - We both have our ways we'd go about it, and neither one is right or wrong.

I'm very happy with how my son has progressed using a £10 Stiga bat, and I doubt he would have improved any quicker with Sriver.

I'll be buying him an all wood blade and Sriver in April - By which time he'll already have the basics of spin, and can develop even further.

I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt as it comes to little (probably very little) kids, but this is all I'm willing to do ... : )

 

[NDH]

It almost goes hand in hand with the other thread started by Der_Echte.

If Kid A started with a Viscaria and T05/H3 - They would really struggle to control it, and it would be very hard to learn the strokes properly.

Kid B starts with a very slow set up, and manages to learn the basics well.

After 1 year, they play each other, and Kid B dominates because he has more advanced strokes and better control of the ball.

This is assuming both kids have the same amount of coaching.

However, after year 2, Kid A has blown past Kid B, and has the extra speed and spin that the Viscaria T05/H3 offers, and is already a master with it.

Kid B is just moving over to a carbon blade, and is making the adjustments.

From there on, Kid A has the advantage all the way through the junior ranks and into the seniors.

So yeah, in a perfect world (with lots of coaches), do it the Chinese way!

 

[jawien]

It almost goes hand in hand with the other thread started by Der_Echte.

If Kid A started with a Viscaria and T05/H3 - They would really struggle to control it, and it would be very hard to learn the strokes properly.

Kid B starts with a very slow set up, and manages to learn the basics well.

After 1 year, they play each other, and Kid B dominates because he has more advanced strokes and better control of the ball.

This is assuming both kids have the same amount of coaching.

However, after year 2, Kid A has blown past Kid B, and has the extra speed and spin that the Viscaria T05/H3 offers, and is already a master with it.

Kid B is just moving over to a carbon blade, and is making the adjustments.

From there on, Kid A has the advantage all the way through the junior ranks and into the seniors.

So yeah, in a perfect world (with lots of coaches), do it the Chinese way!

I'm more of the opinion that the equipment should "grow" with you. For sure there are intermediate setups between "very slow set up" and a "carbon blade", so the transition could be more smooth.

 

[FruitLoop]

Chinese way works by force of numbers. Don't think it is optimal in general.

I think with your son the way you are doing it is great, but I think giving him the Sriver right from the start would have made almost no difference to him feeling out the strokes and maybe saved you a tenner.

 

[Jimbob MacInbred]

I would also vote for a decent premade-bat by Stiga, Butterfly or Cornilleau (if we're talking about a total beginner).

 

[NDH]

Chinese way works by force of numbers. Don't think it is optimal in general.

I think with your son the way you are doing it is great, but I think giving him the Sriver right from the start would have made almost no difference to him feeling out the strokes and maybe saved you a tenner.

It's very possible.

Perhaps I'll try that with my daughter in 2 years time and I'll come back and compare the results!

 

[jawien]

I would also vote for a decent premade-bat by Stiga, Butterfly or Cornilleau (if we're talking about a total beginner).

For me "decent premade" is rather not a £10 racket, more like the price of Appelgren with srivers ... so why bother? As FruitLoop said these would be quite similar and with the premade you have problems taking rubbers off. Economically questionable ...

 

[Medax]

I Play in the West wilts league and the number of players I have seen using this bat in the lowest division surprised me....

https://www.ttequipment.co.uk/product/yinhe-05b-premade-bat/ - £17

apparently it all started with a guy that played the next division up, his team got relegated and ended up in the bottom division. During games he lets players use his setup and next thing you know they buy one. These are guys that aren't the best standard but have been playing 5-10 years.. so does that make them "experienced beginners" ?

That same webshop offers a Yinhe n10 with 2 x mercury (that same rubbers recommended by Tony (a coach) of Tony's TT) fitted for a total of £28 (plus delivery). So for that you get an allround blade and some brand new beginner rubbers.

 

[FruitLoop]

I Play in the West wilts league and the number of players I have seen using this bat in the lowest division surprised me....

https://www.ttequipment.co.uk/product/yinhe-05b-premade-bat/ - £17

apparently it all started with a guy that played the next division up, his team got relegated and ended up in the bottom division. During games he lets players use his setup and next thing you know they buy one. These are guys that aren't the best standard but have been playing 5-10 years.. so does that make them "experienced beginners" ?

That same webshop offers a Yinhe n10 with 2 x mercury (that same rubbers recommended by Tony (a coach) of Tony's TT) fitted for a total of £28 (plus delivery). So for that you get an allround blade and some brand new beginner rubbers.

Lowest league players in UK are generally experienced beginners. Many have been playing for decades but don't have technique or advanced strokes. They usually have developed a bit of a feel for the ball so can block and push ok but do little else well. For them that yinhe N10 setup would be perfect and at a really good price point compared to a Stiga all round classic and mark V or whatever. Not sure about the premade though. outside likely to be pretty poor. Many lower division players use 5 year old srivers and such though which are absolutely dead so it can't be much worse than that. You can get that same set up from Ali express for about £19 if you can assemble yourself btw.

 

[Medax]

Many have been playing for decades but don't have technique or advanced strokes. They usually have developed a bit of a feel for the ball so can block and push ok but do little else well

Having played against these guys myself, I can honestly say that they are a bit better than that. However as they are the "older" gents (and occasionally ladies) they have developed "unusual" shots to compensate for the lack of movement. There is one guy that comes to mind and he has this tomahawk type chop shot and if he hits it right, the skid on it is like the roller shots you see online just a backspin version

Not sure about the premade though. outside likely to be pretty poor.

I have seen these setups for myself and the dozen or so I have seen look to be in good condition. No dead rubbers, and the blade looks like a N5s. My biggest concern with these is Yinhe don't guarantee what rubbers will be on the premade, only that its 9000 "or above". (I was told by the guy at TTEquipment).

Many lower division players use 5 year old srivers and such though which are absolutely dead so it can't be much worse than that.

I have seen that myself, but most are pretty good at changing them every season or 2. In fact, the worst offenders are now using the premade I linked to

You can get that same set up from Ali express for about £19 if you can assemble yourself btw.

you can of course do this, but how many beginners want to buy from China, wait up to 6 weeks and then have to build it themselves ?

 

[NDH]

you can of course do this, but how many beginners want to buy from China, wait up to 6 weeks and then have to build it themselves ?

I would guess that 90% of the UK table tennis population aren't comfortable changing their own rubbers.

Almost 100% wouldn't do it in the lower divisions, and only the mid/top divisions would be doing this (even then, not THAT many people would).

 

[Lightzy]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and even when you ask the "experts", they do things differently (as we established with China/Europe/Korea all recommending different things for their starters).

But if you don't mind me asking, do you have much experience with coaching juniors or new players?

Also - What is your playing level?

I've worked with a lot of juniors and coaches in the UK who all recommend the same thing that I am saying.

The spin is created from the shot mechanics - Not the rubber.

I could do a decent topspin loop with a pre made bat - It's not hard if you have the technique.

If you give a brand new starter a spinny rubber, they'll have a hard time learning the shot, because the rubber is doing half of the work.
Like I said, I appreciate your opinion on it, but in my experience, you want to avoid anything that is going to detract from the basic shot mechanics at the start (this includes quick and spinny rubbers).

Even if you just came in our club without anything we have a stock of simple xiom ALL blades with either mark5 or xiom musa, to give to people who haven't touched a tabletennis racket in their life. I know this since I've been assisting in the coaching of the beginner groups for the past 2 years

Shot mechanics make the spin, but if you don't have very good mechanics (say, you're an absolute beginner), then equipment which makes it easier for you by being slow and spinny... Definitely much spinnier than any premade bat, that makes it easier for you to learn the shot initially.

 

[jawien]

Wow ... just checked it briefly, the srivers in my nearby store are about £30 ... I thought they are much cheaper actually ...

 

[usualsuspect]

Wow ... just checked it briefly, the srivers in my nearby store are about £30 ... I thought they are much cheaper actually ...

"Butterfly" and "cheap" are not two commonly associated words.

Even for total beginners, I would recommend getting a custom made racket. I certainly wish someone told me this when I started out. Bad premade rackets are just a waste of money. Good premade rackets cost too much, and you are better off getting a custom racket with the same money.
There are many great options under $50. Like Yinhe/Galaxy Pro 5w, which is a good 5-ply looping blade at around $30. You can also get some decent Yinhe/Galaxy rubbers (Mars 2 - slightly tacky, Moon - non-tacky, Sun - tacky are all good choices) at around $10 per sheet.
$50 is not much investment. And you can keep using the same blade as you get better, just change to better rubbers.

Princett.com and Aliexpress have really good price on Chinese brands like DHS, Yinhe, and 729 Friendship, which is good for beginners on a budget.