Paris Olympic Games 2024

[dingyibvs]

You mean the Hong Kong team that was put on notice by the prior results and the accumulated videotape and still lost, only with a better score?

Is it a case of the Korean team having a bad seeding or Hayata and Harimoto playing poorly? Despite the obvious answer to that question, are you still going to defend your indefensible narrative?

Yes, they put up a better score despite being a righty/righty combo with far worse individual skills than the Harimoto/Hayata pair. I'm glad we're in agreement that the Korean team is underrated and Hayata/Harimoto is a poor combo.

 

[dingyibvs]

Just wanna add that I don't think FZD or WCQ are great for the doubles game either, FZD a little more so than WCQ. A lot of the younger players these days play a closer to the table, balanced two-wing game. There's a lot of focus on quicker strokes with great recovery and FH/BH transitions for their game. The doubles game doesn't care about recovery, and has a focus on single-shot quality instead.

 

[NextLevel]

Yes, they put up a better score despite being a righty/righty combo with far worse individual skills than the Harimoto/Hayata pair. I'm glad we're in agreement that the Korean team is underrated and Hayata/Harimoto is a poor combo.

We are not in agreement. In a competition between world ranking and titles which show a history of being the second best mixed doubles team in the world, vs. a single match vs a lower rated opponent of equal and possibly superior strength, I will take the larger dataset. You can trust your brilliant judgment. Scoreline isn't always a good reflection of relative strength.

 

[andzejgolot]

I know its old but Freitas looks sharp in first set and choked 2 service receive in crucial moments and add a lot of unforced errors from third ball.
Third set was disaster because choke from 8:3 to 8:11 just end the match.
He missed a lot easy balls.
Freitas and Apolonia use Butterfly blades with their name but their shots has no pop and hard heavy chinese balls didnt help them too. It means Butterfly heavy innerforce zlc + outer alc is dying. No one use them in the highest level...
I wrote it because Butterfly always brag about how many players use their products and we as consumer forgot their players are in prison with outdated equipment.

Curious what happened in the Lind match. Looks like we easily beat Freitas 4-0 which is pretty surprising.

Lind when he's 100% on his game is extremely fun to watch and it doesn't happen often enough due to his lack of consistency.

Did anyone watch the whole thing?

 

[dingyibvs]

We are not in agreement. In a competition between world ranking and titles which show a history of being the second best mixed doubles team in the world, vs. a single match vs a lower rated opponent of equal and possibly superior strength, I will take the larger dataset. You can trust your brilliant judgment. Scoreline isn't always a good reflection of relative strength.

No, we actually are in agreement in our assessments, we just have different expectations. Look at your statement of facts, that the Harimoto/Hayata pair has a history of being the "second best" pairing, and that the North Korean pair is of "equal and possibly superior strength". There is no disagreement there. I just don't see those facts being good enough for Harimoto/Hayata.

Hayata is the best non-Chinese women's player while Harimoto is arguably the best non-Chinese men's player. The combination of the two should be far and away the best non-Chinese pair in the world as beating the both of them at the same time should be doubly hard compared to beating each one individually. The only thing possible that prevents it from happening is if they don't work well together as a pair in doubles. In other words, the fact that there is a non-Chinse pair (IMO 2 pairs, including the SK pair) of "equal and possibly superior strength" suggests that they don't pair well together for doubles.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

I know its old but Freitas looks sharp in first set and choked 2 service receive in crucial moments and add a lot of unforced errors from third ball.
Third set was disaster because choke from 8:3 to 8:11 just end the match.
He missed a lot easy balls.
Freitas and Apolonia use Butterfly blades with their name but their shots has no pop and hard heavy chinese balls didnt help them too. It means Butterfly heavy innerforce zlc + outer alc is dying. No one use them in the highest level...
I wrote it because Butterfly always brag about how many players use their products and we as consumer forgot their players are in prison with outdated equipment.

if not Butterfly then what?

I am having an existential moment now...

 

[NextLevel]

No, we actually are in agreement in our assessments, we just have different expectations. Look at your statement of facts, that the Harimoto/Hayata pair has a history of being the "second best" pairing, and that the North Korean pair is of "equal and possibly superior strength". There is no disagreement there. I just don't see those facts being good enough for Harimoto/Hayata.

Hayata is the best non-Chinese women's player while Harimoto is arguably the best non-Chinese men's player. The combination of the two should be far and away the best non-Chinese pair in the world as beating the both of them at the same time should be doubly hard compared to beating each one individually. The only thing possible that prevents it from happening is if they don't work well together as a pair in doubles. In other words, the fact that there is a non-Chinse pair (IMO 2 pairs, including the SK pair) of "equal and possibly superior strength" suggests that they don't pair well together for doubles.

The logic is nice coneptually but it is not right, it's just pretty logic. How would a pair like Kristian Karlsson and Mattias Falck be world champions in 2021 based on this logic? Because all the other higher ranked pairs they beat didn't combine well? It's worth studying the amount of luck that occurs in doubles and some of the risk in not having advance knowledge of the opponents, especially in XD for the woman who has to defend the man's shots, when making such blanket claims.

The reality is that there are lots of reasonable ways to form effective doubles partnerships, some more traditional and easier than others. There is some evidence that having the man as the lefty is more effective but that is nothing written in stone.

The funny thing is that for the most part, Harimoto and Hayata have outperformed Shin and Lim the last two to four years in doubles but yet you still rank Lim and Shin as superior. Again your own prerogative, but let's not confuse that with the data or the facts.

 

[Oliverpool]

I know its old but Freitas looks sharp in first set and choked 2 service receive in crucial moments and add a lot of unforced errors from third ball.
Third set was disaster because choke from 8:3 to 8:11 just end the match.
He missed a lot easy balls.
Freitas and Apolonia use Butterfly blades with their name but their shots has no pop and hard heavy chinese balls didnt help them too. It means Butterfly heavy innerforce zlc + outer alc is dying. No one use them in the highest level...
I wrote it because Butterfly always brag about how many players use their products and we as consumer forgot their players are in prison with outdated equipment.

But but but but Franziska using his innerforce ZLC went all the way to the finals in Singapore Smash this year. And he also has beat FZD, Ma Long and Xu Xin? as well using this blade. I am not actually sure if he was using his name blade when he beat Xu Xin a couple of years ago. But I cant think of many other players who has beaten all three of them....

 

[joshmak10]

But but but but Franziska using his innerforce ZLC went all the way to the finals in Singapore Smash this year. And he also has beat FZD, Ma Long and Xu Xin? as well using this blade. I am not actually sure if he was using his name blade when he beat Xu Xin a couple of years ago. But I cant think of many other players who has beaten all three of them....

I think it’s more that the Freitas and Apolonia blades were made so long ago that they are out dated and don’t play well at pro level, especially Freitas’s limba outer carbon blade. But Franziska blade was made only like 2 or so years ago so it has newer “tech” ig or idk. Overall tho, let’s just say that new innerforce zlc and outer alc is better than old innerforce zlc and outer alc (excluding viscaria and boll alc ofc)

 

[BlueInGreen]

if not Butterfly then what?

I am having an existential moment now...

Well, I don't think it's a mere coincidence that more and more non-Chinese pros are gravitating towards W968, mostly FH-oriented players of course. That being said, it doesn't seem to me that Butterfly's Koto outer-ALC offerings are being displaced at the top level. Why else would the likes of FZD and LSD (and the rest of CNT) still be using Viscaria if that was the case?

 

[Sali]

Nah, Dima is the one that is supposedly the fraud.

In fact Patrick beat them all in test matches just before they went to Olympics and still they set him on a bench. Even weak Timo plays on team event.

 

[JJ Ng]

if not Butterfly then what?

I am having an existential moment now...

It is time for you to experience the beauty of hurricane on the forehand plus soft ESN rubbers on the backhand side. lol

 

[doppelmoral]

Vitor Ishiy's style and movements remind me alot of Koki Niwa

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

It is time for you to experience the beauty of hurricane on the forehand plus soft ESN rubbers on the backhand side. lol

 

[AutomaticBackhand]

I believe in Ovtcharov!

 

[mikeytt]

togami having a tough time against kozul

 

[andzejgolot]

Togami shirt is fire.

 

[M51]

Provide the same picture for Felix since you are supposedly being objective.

You do it, I cannot prove a negative. Whichever screencap I post, you're just gonna accuse me of cherry-picking.

 

[backspacer]

Togami shirt is fire.

Looks like a variation of the national shirt which I wanted to buy. Hopefully they will sell it. Might just get that instead.

 

[andzejgolot]

I think it’s more that the Freitas and Apolonia blades were made so long ago that they are out dated and don’t play well at pro level, especially Freitas’s limba outer carbon blade. But Franziska blade was made only like 2 or so years ago so it has newer “tech” ig or idk. Overall tho, let’s just say that new innerforce zlc and outer alc is better than old innerforce zlc and outer alc (excluding viscaria and boll alc ofc)

Thanks!
I played with limba alc and the ball lack of penetration with harder rubbers. Tenergy 05 is Perfect for the blade and my homie fake Train ( lol ) use dignics....
Apolonia use his special edition oversize.
Franziska blade and the handle - wings add a lot to transition from forehand to backhand