Dignics and its Effect on Sales of Tenergy and Rozena

[zeio]

Butterfly's mid-range blades have better cost-to-performance ratio now?

理性讨论，张继科对蝴蝶的影响有多大？ (Fair discussion, how much effect did ZJK have on Butterfly?)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/9355862260
贴吧用户_JR8C3eV 记得张继科之前的时代，也就是纯木时代。吧里讨论底板是百花齐放的，现在除了一个968，基本蝴蝶一家独大了。这是蝴蝶的纤维技术独步天下，还是张继科用维斯带来的蝴蝶效应
IP属地:山东来自Android客户端1楼2024-12-24 09:07回复
(I remember the era before ZJK, which was the era of all-wood. In Tieba, there were discussions for all kinds of blades. Now, except for 968, Butterfly is basically a monopoly. Is it because Butterfly's composite technology is unique in the world, or is it the Butterfly Effect brought about by ZJK's use of Viscaria?)

无限の魔术师 关键是蝴蝶的板子真的好打啊，而且绝大多数的中端价位板子，性价比和性能都高过其他家。挺拔多尼克斯蒂卡尼塔库红大妈中端价位德板子，不管选择性还是性能，大多数都不如蝴蝶
IP属地:辽宁来自Android客户端4楼2024-12-24 11:56收起回复
(The key is that Butterfly blades are really great to play with, and most of the mid-range blades have higher cost-to-performance ratio and performance than other brands. Most of the mid-range blades of Tibhar, Donic, Stiga, Nittaku and Red Aunt [DHS] are not as good as Butterfly in terms of selection and performance.)
无限の魔术师: 700-1000价位
2024-12-24 11:56回复
700-1000 price range [~US$96-137]
侧身倒地不爆冲: 我430买的蝴蝶勇气 这个价位在红大妈基本买不到什么东西
2024-12-24 13:08回复
(I bought Butterfly Strave for 430. You can hardly buy anything at this price from Red Aunt [DHS])
贴吧用户_JR8C3eV: 花一千买个蝴蝶，和国家队器材没啥太大区别。但是买个红双喜那就完全不是一种东西
2024-12-24 13:56回复
(Spending a thousand dollars to buy a Butterfly is not much different from the CNT equipment. But buying a DHS is a completely different thing)

胡尔莫斯 张继科那时候蝴蝶纯木很普通，反而这几年纯木开始火爆。张继科以前蝴蝶纤维就很热门，那时候波a，泰克西姆，inn系列还有t5000很多热门，张继科以后也有很多运动员给vis提供热度。
IP属地:广西来自Android客户端5楼2024-12-24 14:46回复
(Butterfly all-wood was no big deal back in ZJK's time, but all-wood has become the talk of the town in recent years. Butterfly composite was already very popular before ZJK, and at that time, Boll ALC, Taksim, Innerforce series and T5000 were very popular. After ZJK, many athletes also boosted the popularity of Viscaria.)

 

[ThePongCommenter]

Butterfly's mid-range blades have better cost-to-performance ratio now?

理性讨论，张继科对蝴蝶的影响有多大？ (Fair discussion, how much effect did ZJK have on Butterfly?)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/9355862260
贴吧用户_JR8C3eV 记得张继科之前的时代，也就是纯木时代。吧里讨论底板是百花齐放的，现在除了一个968，基本蝴蝶一家独大了。这是蝴蝶的纤维技术独步天下，还是张继科用维斯带来的蝴蝶效应
IP属地:山东来自Android客户端1楼2024-12-24 09:07回复
(I remember the era before ZJK, which was the era of all-wood. In Tieba, there were discussions for all kinds of blades. Now, except for 968, Butterfly is basically a monopoly. Is it because Butterfly's composite technology is unique in the world, or is it the Butterfly Effect brought about by ZJK's use of Viscaria?)

无限の魔术师 关键是蝴蝶的板子真的好打啊，而且绝大多数的中端价位板子，性价比和性能都高过其他家。挺拔多尼克斯蒂卡尼塔库红大妈中端价位德板子，不管选择性还是性能，大多数都不如蝴蝶
IP属地:辽宁来自Android客户端4楼2024-12-24 11:56收起回复
(The key is that Butterfly blades are really great to play with, and most of the mid-range blades have higher cost-to-performance ratio and performance than other brands. Most of the mid-range blades of Tibhar, Donic, Stiga, Nittaku and Red Aunt [DHS] are not as good as Butterfly in terms of selection and performance.)
无限の魔术师: 700-1000价位
2024-12-24 11:56回复
700-1000 price range [~US$96-137]
侧身倒地不爆冲: 我430买的蝴蝶勇气 这个价位在红大妈基本买不到什么东西
2024-12-24 13:08回复
(I bought Butterfly Strave for 430. You can hardly buy anything at this price from Red Aunt [DHS])
贴吧用户_JR8C3eV: 花一千买个蝴蝶，和国家队器材没啥太大区别。但是买个红双喜那就完全不是一种东西
2024-12-24 13:56回复
(Spending a thousand dollars to buy a Butterfly is not much different from the CNT equipment. But buying a DHS is a completely different thing)

胡尔莫斯 张继科那时候蝴蝶纯木很普通，反而这几年纯木开始火爆。张继科以前蝴蝶纤维就很热门，那时候波a，泰克西姆，inn系列还有t5000很多热门，张继科以后也有很多运动员给vis提供热度。
IP属地:广西来自Android客户端5楼2024-12-24 14:46回复
(Butterfly all-wood was no big deal back in ZJK's time, but all-wood has become the talk of the town in recent years. Butterfly composite was already very popular before ZJK, and at that time, Boll ALC, Taksim, Innerforce series and T5000 were very popular. After ZJK, many athletes also boosted the popularity of Viscaria.)

Nowadays, the going rate for a premium blade from any brand is anywhere from 130-180 dollars/Euros on average. So why would someone not go for a TBALC/FZD ALC/Viscaria/Ovtcharov/Harimoto ALC which all cost basically the same price as their "competition"?

 

[haggisv]

More updates. Butterfly Europe also had a fantastic 2023, with an increase of 9% in sales and over 50% in profit compared to 2022, which was already record breaking.

I wonder how they increased their profit by 50% with only 9% increase in sales? Reducing their costs, increasing their prices, better exchange rate?

 

[Amayzde]

Nowadays, the going rate for a premium blade from any brand is anywhere from 130-180 dollars/Euros on average. So why would someone not go for a TBALC/FZD ALC/Viscaria/Ovtcharov/Harimoto ALC which all cost basically the same price as their "competition"?

I couldnt agree more. People are still complaining about Butterfly being too expensive. Other brands are now putting out rubbers that cost €65-80. Meanwhile Tenergy still costs €60.

 

[zeio]

I wonder how they increased their profit by 50% with only 9% increase in sales? Reducing their costs, increasing their prices, better exchange rate?

All of them add up to profit, but sales are still the deciding factor because they are typically the greatest value. For example, sales decreased by 3.4% and profit dropped by 30% in 2020 due to the pandemic.

 

[NextLevel]

The materials that go into rubbers are relatively cheap so the marginal return on sales is likely very high while things like marketing and manufacturing are likely largely fixed costs with the incremental costs of materials relatively low vs what users pay for the rubbers.

 

[JJ Ng]

I wonder how they increased their profit by 50% with only 9% increase in sales? Reducing their costs, increasing their prices, better exchange rate?

If you don't own your own business, it is harder to understand the concept. Let us just say the profit is 18% of the total sales (say $18 out of $100 in terms of sales is pure profit). So if the sales increase by 9% (i.e. go from $100 to $109 in total sales) while costs remain the same (kind of impossible with all the inflation going on but let us assume that) then profit does go up by 50% ($18 per $100 of sale in terms profit last year v.s. $27 per $109 of sales in terms of profit this year).

As for Butterfly rubbers, I am not so enamored with them. Recently I started experimenting with Butterfly inner ALC and inner ZLC and the experiment is so far so good. I still need to figure out the exact blade but I am not competing any time soon.

 

[NetProphet]

If you don't own your own business, it is harder to understand the concept. Let us just say the profit is 18% of the total sales (say $18 out of $100 in terms of sales is pure profit). So if the sales increase by 9% (i.e. go from $100 to $109 in total sales) while costs remain the same (kind of impossible with all the inflation going on but let us assume that) then profit does go up by 50% ($18 per $100 of sale in terms profit last year v.s. $27 per $109 of sales in terms of profit this year).

As for Butterfly rubbers, I am not so enamored with them. Recently I started experimenting with Butterfly inner ALC and inner ZLC and the experiment is so far so good. I still need to figure out the exact blade but I am not competing any time soon.

The greatest use of made up numbers I've seen in quite a while...
I think most of us understand the concept of percentages and that 27 is 50% greater than 18.

The question was wondering what Butterfly actually did that resulted in the 50% profit jump, not a failure to understand basic mathematics 😂

 

[Brs]

The greatest use of made up numbers I've seen in quite a while...
I think most of us understand the concept of percentages and that 27 is 50% greater than 18.

The question was wondering what Butterfly actually did that resulted in the 50% profit jump, not a failure to understand basic mathematics 😂

Okay, I'll try with words.

Businesses have sales, and they have fixed costs and variable costs.

Fixed means regardless of how much they sell, they pay these costs. Think about factories, salaries for employees you won't fire, interest on debts, sponsorship contracts to license a player's name.

Variable costs vary with the amount of product you sell. So if butterfly sells more blades, they buy more ALC, pay for more Bty clothes to be made, and spend more on shipping stock to stores.

There is a very wide range of fixed to variable cost ratios that a profitable business can have. Grocery stores are famous for having very high variable costs. They have to buy more food for every food they sell. Software and internet companies have almost zero variable costs. They don't distribute anything physical at all. Once Facebook exists, Google exists, MS Office, it costs them almost nothing to add one more user.

Butterfly Europe was profitable in 2022 already. So the value of sales covered all their fixed costs, and all the variable costs, and then a little something was left after they paid all expenses. This is the meaning of profitable.

In 2023 sales increased 9%. Fixed costs did not increase 9%. Why, you ask? Because they are fixed, and do not increase in line with sales volume. If you have a blade factory running at 70% of its maximum capacity and you increase that to 77%, there is no added cost for having the factory. You already have it.

Variable costs will have increased. By definition those vary with sales. But in this pingpong business variable must be a small percentage of overall costs.

Adding more sales without a corresponding increase in costs (because they are mostly fixed) leads to big percentage increases in profit. This is particularly true when margins are thin, meaning the previous years sales only just covered all expenses with a small profit. We can assume this was the case for Bty Europe in 2022 coming out of the pandemic.

Profits cannot forever continue to increase 50% on 9% sales increases. If they did then profits would soon be greater than sales. This does not happen.

Did that help at all?

 

[NetProphet]

Okay, I'll try with words.

Businesses have sales, and they have fixed costs and variable costs.

Fixed means regardless of how much they sell, they pay these costs. Think about factories, salaries for employees you won't fire, interest on debts, sponsorship contracts to license a player's name.

Variable costs vary with the amount of product you sell. So if butterfly sells more blades, they buy more ALC, pay for more Bty clothes to be made, and spend more on shipping stock to stores.

There is a very wide range of fixed to variable cost ratios that a profitable business can have. Grocery stores are famous for having very high variable costs. They have to buy more food for every food they sell. Software and internet companies have almost zero variable costs. They don't distribute anything physical at all. Once Facebook exists, Google exists, MS Office, it costs them almost nothing to add one more user.

Butterfly Europe was profitable in 2022 already. So the value of sales covered all their fixed costs, and all the variable costs, and then a little something was left after they paid all expenses. This is the meaning of profitable.

In 2023 sales increased 9%. Fixed costs did not increase 9%. Why, you ask? Because they are fixed, and do not increase in line with sales volume. If you have a blade factory running at 70% of its maximum capacity and you increase that to 77%, there is no added cost for having the factory. You already have it.

Variable costs will have increased. By definition those vary with sales. But in this pingpong business variable must be a small percentage of overall costs.

Adding more sales without a corresponding increase in costs (because they are mostly fixed) leads to big percentage increases in profit. This is particularly true when margins are thin, meaning the previous years sales only just covered all expenses with a small profit. We can assume this was the case for Bty Europe in 2022 coming out of the pandemic.

Profits cannot forever continue to increase 50% on 9% sales increases. If they did then profits would soon be greater than sales. This does not happen.

Did that help at all?

Maybe ask someone else, I only read the last line.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

An important consideration here is that Butterfly owns their means of production and ESN companies do not.

 

[zeio]

They get volume discounts for buying in bulk and use currency hedging to manage fluctuating exchange rates, with both sometimes canceling out and even reducing the higher costs that come with the higher sales.

At that point, it's not just about manufacturing table tennis products anymore. It's about having killer products up your sleeve that you've developed several years beforehand and releasing them down the road at the proper moment by making the right forecasts.

 

[zeio]

Not about rubbers but blades this time. Butterfly will finally release the Outerforce series on 2025/3/21. The trademark has been registered for so long...

蛾子要出新底板了 颜值很不错
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/9473696955

 

[zeio]

Just in. As projected, Q2 (7-9/2024) of FY2025 was yet another record-breaking quarter with the highest-ever revenue.

Forget the previous record. Q3 (10-12/2024) of FY2025 shattered it by a mile thanks to the Paris 2024. First time in the 200 million yens territory.

Coupled with the Outerforce blade series, Butterfly is keen on capturing the mid-range segment. ESN will be on life support at this rate...

 

[releted]

The greatest use of made up numbers I've seen in quite a while...
I think most of us understand the concept of percentages and that 27 is 50% greater than 18.

The question was wondering what Butterfly actually did that resulted in the 50% profit jump, not a failure to understand basic mathematics 😂

Not to be petty, but it looks to me that Brs did answer the question in his initial response, which was how does a 9% increase in sales result in 50% increase in profit.

As an aside, I started looking for alternative to Butterfly D64 because several people commented to me that it was a "waste" using such an expensive rubber to play outdoors in the park. So, instead, now my D64 goes to waste sitting on a blade that I seldom use.

 

[zeio]

放て、チキータ｜グレイザーマン｜ノジマTリーグ2024-2025 日本生命レッドエルフ HOME GAME in バタフライアリーナ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBOl-uwWvbw

 

[zeio]

K...AL: 2024/12
K...BA: 2025/01
K...BB: 2025/02

日本能买到新品了？ (The new products is already available in Japan?)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/9531153224

 

[zeio]

Preliminary data for Q4 (1-3/2025) of FY2025 suggest sales of Spring Sponge X/Spring Sponge series have increased yet again.

 

[zeio]

A Tieba equipment thread (hard to come by nowadays) shows exactly the kind of challenge Glayzer poses that Philip Kim of Xiom touched on.

蝴蝶glayzer 其实你不差 (Butterfly Glayzer, you are actually not bad)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/9679825258
弧圈鹦鹉 买的第二块了，这个胶皮貌似也两极分化，多打几次体会，我认为同价几乎所有德套都比不了glayzer，蛮好打的，比罗泽那稍好些
IP属地:安徽来自iPhone客户端1楼2025-04-30 19:19回复
(This is the second piece I bought. This rubber seems to be polarized [in terms of opinions]. Having played with it a few more times to experience it, I think almost all German rubbers of the same price cannot compare with Glayzer. It is quite good to play with, slightly better than Rozena)

弧圈鹦鹉 像张继科最近说测评要多比赛，而不是拉两板长球，之前打的咒语pro h拉球感觉不错，光拉球不输格雷泽，但是小球差，而且打久了有点掉，这个控制接发球就是严重的问题
IP属地:安徽来自iPhone客户端4楼2025-04-30 19:25回复
(Like Zhang Jike said recently that the evaluation should be more based on matches, rather than looping two long balls. The Mantra Pro H I played before felt good, and in terms of looping was not inferior to Glayzer, but the small ball [closed game] was poor, and it slipped a little after playing for a long time. This control of receiving serves is a serious problem)

球拍自制器材尝试 一开始我就说格雷泽，是200块钱价位的首选。同价位德套海绵弹性寿命太垃圾了。我现在基本上只打格雷泽。咱水平没多高，D系列比赛太难打透。格雷泽配张本A，是我打过最合适的胶皮。现在换了白金DNA 混动，打了一个月。再也不想打了。下次还是得用格雷泽。
IP属地:广东来自iPhone客户端5楼2025-04-30 20:06收起回复
(From the beginning, I've said Glayzer is the first choice in the 200 yuan price range. The elasticity and life of the sponge of the German rubbers at the same price are so shit. Now I basically only play Glayzer. My level is not very high, and it is too difficult to hit through the D series. Glayzer paired with Harimoto ALC is the most suitable rubber I have ever played. Now I have changed to DNA Platinum Hybrid [both?] and played for a month. I don’t want to play anymore. I will still use Glayzer next time.)

天高云不淡 绝大部分人都是跟风的，几个评测号出点一致的评测直接洗脑洗坏掉。关于g系列，g套只是性价比不行，不是性能不行，放在160-170价位就是神。g09c神中神，六七成的d09c水平，价格只有d09c的一半。
IP属地:加拿大来自iPhone客户端11楼2025-05-01 06:03收起回复
(Most people just follow the trend. Several review accounts have published the same reviews and directly brainwashed people. Regarding the g series, the g rubber is only poor in terms of price-performance ratio, not that its performance is poor. It is a god in the price range of 160-170. The g09c is the god among the gods, 60-70% of the level of the d09c, and the price is only half of the d09c.)
棒棒糖大王: 同意你说的，我去年pdd领券190买过一张g09，说实话还不错，速度底劲比d09差不少，但也还行，旋转很好，性能特点突出一个稳，如果能降到160价位那很无敌了
2025-5-7 16:44回复
(I agree with what you said. I bought a g09 for 190 with a coupon from pdd [Pinduoduo] last year. To be honest, it's not bad. The speed is much worse than d09, but it's still okay. The rotation is very good. The performance feature is consistency. If the price can be reduced to 160, it will be invincible)

penpen9 蝴蝶的线性和稳定性不是别的品牌能比的，关键时刻就是有数敢上手，想涨球还得用蝴蝶
IP属地:山东来自Android客户端12楼2025-05-01 06:44收起回复
(The linearity and consistency of Butterfly are unmatched by other brands. It gives you the confidence to open the point at the critical moment, you have to use Butterfly if you want to improve your skills)

直改横选择超v的呆瓜 g套，自己买不下8张了。个人手感g09c薄纱格雷泽。
IP属地:河北来自iPhone客户端15楼2025-05-01 10:19收起回复
(g rubber, I have bought at least 8. Personal feeling g09c steamrolls glazer.)

珊姗来迟77 和G 1比怎么样
IP属地:湖南17楼2025-05-01 14:56收起回复
(How does it compare to G 1?)
Amaranth0927: g1问题是用久了胶面有点光滑 搓球比较容易冒 但是加点力之后就很持球摩擦也很好 新的g1没这问题 大概三四个月之后会出现这个问题 对摆很亏 但是对拉没什么性能下降
2025-5-6 13:11回复
(The problem with g1 is that the topsheet is a bit smooth after long use, and it is easy to pop up when pushing the ball, but after adding a little force, it holds the ball and brushes very well. A new g1 does not have this problem. This problem will appear after about three or four months. It is very disadvantageous for counter-dropping [really short push], but there is no performance loss for counter-looping)

卡尔 没打过，不过200刷券能买到v15s和k3了，k3我打着寿命还可以呀，尤其是放反手
IP属地:浙江来自Android客户端24楼2025-05-02 10:56收起回复
(I haven't played it, but I can buy v15s and k3 for 200 with coupons. I think the life span of k3 is pretty good, especially when I put it on backhand)
弧圈鹦鹉: 200刷券也买不到k3吧，都刷券的前提格雷泽价格也更低
2025-5-2 11:03回复
(You can't buy a K3 for 200 even if you use coupons. If you use coupons, the price of Glayzer is lower)

棒棒糖大王 pdd领券买过一张190的日版g09，如果价位稳定在200以内，还是很有竞争力的，整体风格偏稳定，适合练球。要追求威胁性那跟td比差的不是一星半点
IP属地:安徽来自Android客户端32楼2025-05-07 16:52收起回复
(I used a PDD coupon to buy a Japanese version of G09 for 190. If the price is consistently within 200, it is still very competitive. The overall style is relatively consistent and suitable for practice. If you want to pursue threat, then it is way worse than TD [Tenergy/Dignics].)
纯属扯淡: 这皮子去年领券可以15x，个人觉得这个价钱还不错，后面领到大额券的时候还屯了一张146的，g09c也这个价，供参考。
2025-5-28 17:17回复
(This rubber could be bought at 15x with a coupon last year. I think this price is not bad. Later, when I received a large coupon, I bought one at 146. The g09c is also at this price, for reference.)

玩玩就行别当真 然而v15s 现在只要180多啊，全方位吊打g09c
IP属地:广东来自Android客户端35楼2025-05-28 17:55收起回复
(However, the v15s costs only a little over 180 now, which is better than the G09C in all aspects)
弧圈鹦鹉: 没看到180的v15s，格雷泽最低价158买过
2025-5-28 18:12回复
(I haven't seen the v15s for 180, I bought Glayzer once at the lowest price of 158)

lililiu66666 格雷泽在180的价位，性能不输，寿命重量领先。g09c在180的价位，性能比v15s这些差多了。
IP属地:天津来自Android客户端36楼2025-05-28 18:04收起回复
(Glayzer priced at 180 is not inferior in performance, and its life span and weight are leading. G09c priced at 180 is much worse than v15s in performance)

 

[zeio]

Preliminary data for Q4 (1-3/2025) of FY2025 suggest sales of Spring Sponge X/Spring Sponge series have increased yet again.

The numbers are in. Q4 wasn't as high as the 2 record-breaking Q2 and Q3, but was still the 3rd highest in history. Overall, FY2025 was the highest-ever year.