All Club Level Players need to know the stuff in this video

[Heming Hu]

Hey guys, hope you've been well

I recently uploaded a video on YouTube that seemed to perform much better than a lot of my previous ones.

I take on former Mexico number 3 and a guy who sits objectively around 2100-2300 in the USATT ratings.

Here, I analyse every point of a set, in massive depth. I talk about the principles of what I made the shot selections I made, and what techniques you want to implement in match play for max efficiency.

It was a GREAT video, that I put a lot of time and effort into. And most importantly, it's stuff I WISH I knew when I was in your shoes.

Hope you find it helpful

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I have not met a single pro, who after 22 years of retirement, has ended up better (including those that are still playing actively in masters).
however I know many who are USATT 2800+ that after 10 years, has dropped down a lot and can loose to 2500-2600.
The speed of younger ones are probably the biggest different.

 

[Heming Hu]

I have not met a single pro, who after 22 years of retirement, has ended up better (including those that are still playing actively in masters).
however I know many who are USATT 2800+ that after 10 years, has dropped down a lot and can loose to 2500-2600.

The speed of younger ones are probably the biggest different.

the game itself evolves, which it seems from the comment you have not accounted for

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

the game itself evolves, which it seems from the comment you have not accounted for

haha,

I will make sure to tell Chiang Peng Lung and Chang Yen Shu that the game evolved and they have not accounted for it haha

well, to be fair, they both didn't retire 22 years yet, I will tell them to work they arse off and to be higher than they former height and to be fair to CYS who on the day he retired, phone Chiang Hung-chieh to drop off his spare racket (Taiwan's former U18 no1) and became a shakehander.
So he surely can't beat USATT2400 players today, his speed evolved (he is slowly than he was 10 years old lol), he accounted for the games evolvement though, hence the change from Jpen.

CPL? well, I'm sure you saw what speed glue ban did to his game.
While CYS told me, hidden serve change hurt him the most.
He said, since the hidden serve was removed, he never made it pass Round of 64 any more.

You, my fine sir, are the only one saying, things are becoming easier.... these former pros had a tougher life as things keep changing and evolving...

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

and "club players"???
I know of a 45 year old club player in Germany, who is kicking USATT 2500 players butts (he beat one of our juniors 3-1)
He is a dentist by trade and a chopper.
you might know his name. He is a TTR2550 player.

I think it is important to differentiate pro club players and amateur club players - or what Aruna calls it - hobby players.

not all club players are hobby, especially when we talking about audiences in Europe.
I understand club players in Australia are normally more hobby players.

PS. some of my players are in Germany TTBL, they are also club players. William Henzel is a TTBL player. I'm not sure if any other Oceania player in the recent decade are TTBL level players - other than William, is there any one else?

 

[Heming Hu]

haha,

I will make sure to tell Chiang Peng Lung and Chang Yen Shu that the game evolved and they have not accounted for it haha

well, to be fair, they both didn't retire 22 years yet, I will tell them to work they arse off and to be higher than they former height and to be fair to CYS who on the day he retired, phone Chiang Hung-chieh to drop off his spare racket (Taiwan's former U18 no1) and became a shakehander.
So he surely can't beat USATT2400 players today, his speed evolved (he is slowly than he was 10 years old lol), he accounted for the games evolvement though, hence the change from Jpen.

CPL? well, I'm sure you saw what speed glue ban did to his game.
While CYS told me, hidden serve change hurt him the most.
He said, since the hidden serve was removed, he never made it pass Round of 64 any more.

You, my fine sir, are the only one saying, things are becoming easier.... these former pros had a tougher life as things keep changing and evolving...

haha,

I will make sure to tell Chiang Peng Lung and Chang Yen Shu that the game evolved and they have not accounted for it haha

well, to be fair, they both didn't retire 22 years yet, I will tell them to work they arse off and to be higher than they former height and to be fair to CYS who on the day he retired, phone Chiang Hung-chieh to drop off his spare racket (Taiwan's former U18 no1) and became a shakehander.
So he surely can't beat USATT2400 players today, his speed evolved (he is slowly than he was 10 years old lol), he accounted for the games evolvement though, hence the change from Jpen.

CPL? well, I'm sure you saw what speed glue ban did to his game.
While CYS told me, hidden serve change hurt him the most.
He said, since the hidden serve was removed, he never made it pass Round of 64 any more.

You, my fine sir, are the only one saying, things are becoming easier.... these former pros had a tougher life as things keep changing and evolving...

i didn't say things are becoming easier... that is 1000% not what I said, would appreciate you not twisting my words

I said players don't magically lose the skills they had, just because they stopped playing competitions. Much like riding a bike, and driving a car. You don't forget it and become bad at it once you stop, after you have learnt it for the first time. People think once a player retires, they seem to lose it all and get all rusty, and thats just not true

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

i didn't say things are becoming easier... Don't twist and spin my words

I said players don't magically lose the skills they had, just because they stopped playing competitions. Much like riding a bike, and driving a car. You don't forget it and become bad at it once you stop, after you have learnt it for the first time. People think once a player retires, they seem to lose it all and get all rusty, and thats just not true

your words in the video: "he is basically the same level (as of 2003) or more".

my words: "I have not met a single pro, who after 22 years of retirement, has ended up better"

your words to me: "the game itself evolves, which it seems from the comment you have not accounted for". (Sounds like you are trying to teach me something, so I teach you back!)

then you said, "i didn't say things are becoming easier".

your claim of his level is the "same as of 2003 or more", that is a bit much, isn't it? I didn't spin your words, I think you are spinning it yourself.

 

[Heming Hu]

your words in the video: "he is basically the same level (as of 2003) or more".

my words: "I have not met a single pro, who after 22 years of retirement, has ended up better"

your words to me: "the game itself evolves, which it seems from the comment you have not accounted for". (Sounds like you are trying to teach me something, so I teach you back!)

then you said, "i didn't say things are becoming easier".

your claim of his level is the "same as of 2003 or more", that is a bit much, isn't it? I didn't spin your words, I think you are spinning it yourself.

sure man, whatever works for you

 

[Nima Abadi]

I have not met a single pro, who after 22 years of retirement, has ended up better (including those that are still playing actively in masters).
however I know many who are USATT 2800+ that after 10 years, has dropped down a lot and can loose to 2500-2600.
The speed of younger ones are probably the biggest different.

Man, I'm usually on your side but the heck you going on about?

From a 17 min amazing vid, you've pickup a line (which is not even freaking relevant to the content of the video) and are grinding the poster who is among a few people who actually post informative content and happens to be a freaking Olympian pro player as well.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

its a great video.

Im only surprised that the level seems to be so low in Mexico (at least 20 years ago)

Here in Japan USATT2300 equivalent probably wouldn't even get you an entry in the (Junior ?) national champs or even the French championships

He was totally shut down with your serve to his short FH and even on his serve he could only try to hit one FH loop that he missed because your long push was too good

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

its a great video.

Im only surprised that the level seems to be so low in Mexico (at least 20 years ago)

Here in Japan USATT2300 equivalent probably wouldn't even get you an entry in the (Junior ?) national champs

He was totally shut down with your serve to his short FH and even on his serve he could only try to hit one FH loop that he missed because your long push was too good

great video indeed, but don't point out anything wrong hehe.

if you can find a way to "maintain" or get better after retiring from the sport... bro, you would have a magic potion that is worth a lot of money.

PS. I am also surprised about Mexico's level. 2300 is nothing really low, even for USA standards in 2003.
btw. you saw Chang Yen-Shu in action - that was the player you asked me about couple of months ago.
I think he had a USATT rating of 2900 at one stage (played a few times in USA in his prime)

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Man, I'm usually on your side but the heck you going on about?

From a 17 min amazing vid, you've pickup a line (which is not even freaking relevant to the content of the video) and are grinding the poster who is among a few people who actually post informative content and happens to be a freaking Olympian pro player as well.

I deal with many olympic pro players (or former). I also correct them if they are wrong on something.
so sorry if it upsets you

 

[NextLevel]

Man, I'm usually on your side but the heck you going on about?

From a 17 min amazing vid, you've pickup a line (which is not even freaking relevant to the content of the video) and are grinding the poster who is among a few people who actually post informative content and happens to be a freaking Olympian pro player as well.

Everyone is free to have their own opinions, sometimes criticism like the one Tony is making helps people who are not able to evaluate the video themselves understand some of the limitations of the content/marketing claims.

 

[NextLevel]

its a great video.

Im only surprised that the level seems to be so low in Mexico (at least 20 years ago)

Here in Japan USATT2300 equivalent probably wouldn't even get you an entry in the (Junior ?) national champs or even the French championships

He was totally shut down with your serve to his short FH and even on his serve he could only try to hit one FH loop that he missed because your long push was too good

20 years is a long time, unless you know a lot of things, you have no insight into what the guy has done to keep, lose or improve his level or why/whether he even stopped playing and whether he still plays frequently. Many professional players who stop training entirely end up magically falling down into the 2100-2300 range. 20 years of age is not trivial either. I don't want to read too much from what the player looks like but he doesn't dress or move like someone who really is intense about his playing level.

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

Man, I'm usually on your side but the heck you going on about?

From a 17 min amazing vid, you've pickup a line (which is not even freaking relevant to the content of the video) and are grinding the poster who is among a few people who actually post informative content and happens to be a freaking Olympian pro player as well.

I agree. Tony's made his point, and even agrees it's a great video. But unfortunately, the discussion has devolved around this point rather than the core of the content, thus missing the forest for the trees.

Would we react the same way if Lily or Kanak posted a similar video to help club/hobby level players get better?

@Heming Hu ... Thanks ... great video. Looking forward to future content.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Would we react the same way if Lily or Kanak posted a similar video to help club/hobby level players get better?

I don't think they will claim that a retired player from 2 decades ago, will have the same or higher level today due to the game being evolved. If they do, I will still challenge it and want to see how is that possible. If you dare to state that, then need to explain it when challenged.

I have a 2. Bundesliga player in Germany right now - way higher level than a couple of table tennis Olympians in Paris, or Tokyo that I know. He has some hip injury and I told him to take 1 week break, because he has no league matches last week.
He said, last time he rested for 1 month, he had no feeling at all and took a long time to "catch up". So I told him to practice 1 session a day, and take the work load lighter, arranging physios and what not.

Of course if he was to play a hobby player with no feeling due to the long rest, then I'm sure even with playing with a phone or pot, he will win. But at end of the day, table tennis does require constant up keeping to maintain the level.

Even the likes of older players like Boll or Chuang (in there more recent times), would still practice to maintain, and during required times, to train full time. Then you have players like Feng or Dima who if take rests, would drop in form pretty fast - they need constant full time training.
So you have 2 kinds of players, one that need to train a lot, one that train very little, to "maintain".

To get better after 2 decades after your peak- that is beyond my team of professional coaches and players know-how - we all trying to seek how to become better every day.

Olmo Zavala to me doesn't look like he has been training much or there is just a massive gap in playing level. But content of the video is indeed useful (however I am assuming it is based on a 1900 level beating a 2100~2300?)
Some info, his ITTF WR peak however, was 2001, when he was 500 odd in the world. and he retired in September of 2003.

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

I don't think they will claim that a retired player from 2 decades ago, will have the same or higher level today due to the game being evolved. If they do, I will still challenge it and want to see how is that possible. If you dare to state that, then need to explain it when challenged.

I have a 2. Bundesliga player in Germany right now - way higher level than a couple of table tennis Olympians in Paris, or Tokyo that I know. He has some hip injury and I told him to take 1 week break, because he has no league matches last week.
He said, last time he rested for 1 month, he had no feeling at all and took a long time to "catch up". So I told him to practice 1 session a day, and take the work load lighter, arranging physios and what not.

Of course if he was to play a hobby player with no feeling due to the long rest, then I'm sure even with playing with a phone or pot, he will win. But at end of the day, table tennis does require constant up keeping to maintain the level.

Even the likes of older players like Boll or Chuang (in there more recent times), would still practice to maintain, and during required times, to train full time. Then you have players like Feng or Dima who if take rests, would drop in form pretty fast - they need constant full time training.
So you have 2 kinds of players, one that need to train a lot, one that train very little, to "maintain".

To get better after 2 decades after your peak- that is beyond my team of professional coaches and players know-how - we all trying to seek how to become better every day.

Olmo Zavala to me doesn't look like he has been training much or there is just a massive gap in playing level. But content of the video is indeed useful (however I am assuming it is based on a 1900 level beating a 2100~2300?)
Some info, his ITTF WR peak however, was 2001, when he was 500 odd in the world. and he retired in September of 2003.

It's a fair point, but I think it's time to move on.

 

[NextLevel]

It's a fair point, but I think it's time to move on.

Maybe, but i don't think it is for you to determine that. When people make claims that bring about credibility issues, it is important for forum members to speak up so that these kinds of incredible claims are not used to deceive people. I didn't want to speak about it, but i am unhappy with people trying to shut down Tony as if he is doing something entirely wrong.

As much as I would like to love the educational content of the video, I do have issues with recently retired professionals beating up on glorified hobby players and then claiming anyone can do it with the right insights or training. I am not claiming that some/most of the advice isn't good (in fact, I can discuss that particular issue with anyone in private) , I am claiming that the way it is being marketed can lead an astute watcher to have credibility issues about the source, the same way people have issues with EmRatThich.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

A few comments:

The opponent in the video was probably a much better player than 2300 when he was seriously training in his prime. 2300 doesn't reflect the level of a top player from Mexico. In this video, I don't even think he is 2300 currently but that doesn't really matter. Currently, Madrid, Castro, and Arce are all 2600+.

Heming clearly has a tendency to ramble verbally (which I think is the main thing holding his content back from growing more) and that is probably all that it was when he said that his opponent is the "same level or more". Not really a big deal though.

Heming is talking in this video about how someone who is a lower level than their opponent can beat their higher level opponent through using good tactics, but the supporting video is him beating an opponent who, at their current states, is much worse than him. Tactics don't really come into play there, he could have beat that guy 3-0 with any type of tactics or none at all as he couldn't deal with his shot quality nor did he really particularly try to. How well do these tactics hold up when the listener doesn't have a FH footwork + loop combination like Heming has? Using a video where an underdog won a match due to use of tactics would make much more sense to prove the point he's trying to make.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

I think the video is good.
HMH is putting original content I’ve not seen anything like it. And I’m sure he is giving good coaching advice.

in this video it doesn’t really matter what exact level is the Mexican guy. Just matters to see how with a simple tactic he’s totally shut down and is as powerless than any of us would be against HMH whereas this Mexican guy would be almost all of us easily