Experience with some other Loki rubbers - Arthur China, GTX Pro (inc)

[TensorBackhand]

It has a nice smell.

I have a feeling that "aromatic" is meant to say "aramid", but it is a bad translation from the Chinese to English. But does anybody know if that is true?

 

[banbekas]

Maybe try Loki Kirin K3, has ayous top with inner soft carbon, its really cheap with great Performance & looks! Kirin K2 Also has ayous top, its light and pretty good all+. Kirin K1 its the cheapest AND also has ayous with inner soft carbon (second layer poplar) finish & materials felt a Tiny bit cheaper but the 2 i tested performed really good, even More so for the price!

Thank you, I'll look for it. Honestly, I was a bit disappointed that I didn't get V7-RS when it was on 75% discount because I was yet know just how good Loki's blade quality and build. Turns out, it's great and unfortunately, there's no discount anymore.

Let's say Loki or any other bargain brand has the exact specs as the W968 and uses the same woods, same ALC, and in the same thicknesses to create a clone. What would make you think that it wouldn't perform the same as a W968?

Your brain/ perception. Call it placebo or bias or whatever it's name in English. There's power in name/ brand.

 

[banbekas]

I have a feeling that "aromatic" is meant to say "aramid", but it is a bad translation from the Chinese to English. But does anybody know if that is true?

From google aramid is short for aromatic polyamide.

 

[TensorBackhand]

From google aramid is short for aromatic polyamide.

Oh nice. Sounds like my theory is actually right

 

[lodro]

Oh nice. Sounds like my theory is actually right

indeed it is but mine is too because:
Kevlar® 29, is an aromatic polyamide. ( tensile strength of 3600 MPa)
with other words : it is pretty much all the same rubbish 😂

 

[turbozed]

@lodro @TensorBackhand

Here's my understanding of aramid, arylate, kevlar, ALC, etc:

Aramid fibers = Kevlar (Para-aramid made by Dupont)
Liquid-crystal polymer fibers (LCP) = Vectran (made by Kuraray), Arylate (marketing by Butterfly)
Aramid fiber + carbon fiber = CarboKev (marketing by Yinhe), Para-aramid carbon (Sanwei using the proper terminology)
LCP (a.k.a Vectran and arylate) + carbon fiber = ALC

 

[TheProfessor]

@lodro @TensorBackhand

Here's my understanding of aramid, arylate, kevlar, ALC, etc:

Aramid fibers = Kevlar (Para-aramid made by Dupont)
Liquid-crystal polymer fibers (LCP) = Vectran (made by Kuraray), Arylate (marketing by Butterfly)
Aramid fiber + carbon fiber = CarboKev (marketing by Yinhe), Para-aramid carbon (Sanwei using the proper terminology)
LCP (a.k.a Vectran and arylate) + carbon fiber = ALC

Cool man

 

[TensorBackhand]

https://a.aliexpress.com/_msVMDeO

Here is new W81. But why does it use klc while telson uses alc? I thought klc is cheaper

 

[Wakkibatty]

I grabbed myself a sheet of Telson 100
direct from Loki recently, and it arrived in the post yesterday. Loki's promo pieces said it was a Japanese top sheet, and non- tacky.

So I'm looking at this thing -- the sponge hardness is about right @ 47.5 degrees, it has smallish pores and looks like a quality sponge. The top sheet is surprisingly soft for Loki, is high quality and very thin... Which supports the whole Japanese top sheet thing (as Loki's top sheets typically aren't exactly tissue-like).

A few quick bounce / hit / spin tests demonstrate the rubber is certainly quick, and very grippy, with very good spin potential and seemingly has a really surprising number of gears... Especially the low gears!! The top sheet is not truly non-tacky... it definitely has some tack to it. It's not hybrid level tacky mind you, but it can definitely lift a ball for a split second... But despite the lack of any genuine tack, the rubber felt utterly dead at first... Like flextra dead! The bounce was more like a H3 at first, I could swear the tack was suppressing the bounce, but it just wasn't sticky enough for that to be the case -- this top sheet has some serious gears built into it.

Haven't had a proper hit with it yet (that happens tomorrow)... But looping the ball down my hallway demonstrated it is indeed capable of displaying a pretty healthy high-arcing trajectory, followed by (apparently) truly f***en' stupid levels of kick at the bounce. (I therefore think it might potentially be a real hoot away from the table).

The weight of the cut rubber is about 47-48 grams, so not light, but not a true heavy weight either. During the bounce tests and hallway loops, the top-sheet was really wrapping itself around the ball thanks to that lovely soft top sheet. It felt quite magic frankly, and this explained the massive bouts of spin I was sometimes getting when I got the contact & brushing just right.

But the thing that really threw me, was the sight of regular "waves" in the top surface of the topsheet. Thought it was a manufacturing fault at first, but on closer inspection, it's not really. The waves are definitely there, but it's almost like a luminescence shift more than an actual undulation, as I couldn't really detect it with my fingertips.

So here's my question folks ('cause I won't know the answer myself 'till I have a proper hit with this thing):

... Am I going totally crazy, or am I really describing a re-badged Nittaku Hammond Z2?? 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

Never actually played with a Z2 yet, but the waves in the top sheet + it's Japanese development heritage seem like a real giveaway... The fact most of the purported playing features of a Z2 also match this rubber pretty well doesn't do much to dispel the notion.

I dunno -- maybe it is different -- gonna find out shortly anyway 🤷🏻

 

[hclnnkhg]

I grabbed myself a sheet of Telson 100
direct from Loki recently, and it arrived in the post yesterday. Loki's promo pieces said it was a Japanese top sheet, and non- tacky.

So I'm looking at this thing -- the sponge hardness is about right @ 47.5 degrees, it has smallish pores and looks like a quality sponge. The top sheet is surprisingly soft for Loki, is high quality and very thin... Which supports the whole Japanese top sheet thing (as Loki's top sheets typically aren't exactly tissue-like).

A few quick bounce / hit / spin tests demonstrate the rubber is certainly quick, and very grippy, with very good spin potential and seemingly has a really surprising number of gears... Especially the low gears!! The top sheet is not truly non-tacky... it definitely has some tack to it. It's not hybrid level tacky mind you, but it can definitely lift a ball for a split second... But despite the lack of any genuine tack, the rubber felt utterly dead at first... Like flextra dead! The bounce was more like a H3 at first, I could swear the tack was suppressing the bounce, but it just wasn't sticky enough for that to be the case -- this top sheet has some serious gears built into it.

Haven't had a proper hit with it yet (that happens tomorrow)... But looping the ball down my hallway demonstrated it is indeed capable of displaying a pretty healthy high-arcing trajectory, followed by (apparently) truly f***en' stupid levels of kick at the bounce. (I therefore think it might potentially be a real hoot away from the table).

The weight of the cut rubber is about 47-48 grams, so not light, but not a true heavy weight either. During the bounce tests and hallway loops, the top-sheet was really wrapping itself around the ball thanks to that lovely soft top sheet. It felt quite magic frankly, and this explained the massive bouts of spin I was sometimes getting when I got the contact & brushing just right.

But the thing that really threw me, was the sight of regular "waves" in the top surface of the topsheet. Thought it was a manufacturing fault at first, but on closer inspection, it's not really. The waves are definitely there, but it's almost like a luminescence shift more than an actual undulation, as I couldn't really detect it with my fingertips.

So here's my question folks ('cause I won't know the answer myself 'till I have a proper hit with this thing):

... Am I going totally crazy, or am I really describing a re-badged Nittaku Hammond Z2?? 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

Never actually played with a Z2 yet, but the waves in the top sheet + it's Japanese development heritage seem like a real giveaway... The fact every other stat and playing feature of the Z2 seem to be a perfect match for this rubber doesn't do much to dispel the notion either. 🤷🏻🤷🏻

Is the wave similar to Tuttle President G20? I bought it but haven't tried it yet.

Sounds quite promising if Telson is a Z2-lite given it's around 20GBP on aliexpress. Look forward to your review!

 

[Wakkibatty]

Is the wave similar to Tuttle President G20? I bought it but haven't tried it yet.

Sounds quite promising if Telson is a Z2-lite given it's around 20GBP on aliexpress. Look forward to your review!

Haven't seen the Turtle President G20 yet sorry, so honestly wouldn't know.

I'll take a picture of the Telson -- hang on a mo...

 

[Wakkibatty]

Here she is... You tell me folks, is the top sheet a match?

 

[banbekas]

Changed my FH rubber to Loki R9 a few days ago and an unboosted volant phoenix on my BH. Previously, I had B2 Gold on FH and Moon 12 on BH. I slapped these two chinese rubbers on my newly trusted Loki V5. The blade is very head heavy and heavy.

R9 is a great rubber. Powerful, even with a small movement, the ball still shoots out like a rocket. Monstrous spin, and the arc is quite high. The thing is, when I put more power into it, the ball often goes over the table. This is actually bad for me because I love hitting it hard in counterloop situation. Most of my FH counterloop went over the table. I think it's related to its high arc compared to the lower throw of B2 Gold. Well, gotta work on it.

Serving is superb. It's very easy to impart spin on serve. I have no complain here.

 

[TensorBackhand]

I grabbed myself a sheet of Telson 100
direct from Loki recently, and it arrived in the post yesterday. Loki's promo pieces said it was a Japanese top sheet, and non- tacky.

So I'm looking at this thing -- the sponge hardness is about right @ 47.5 degrees, it has smallish pores and looks like a quality sponge. The top sheet is surprisingly soft for Loki, is high quality and very thin... Which supports the whole Japanese top sheet thing (as Loki's top sheets typically aren't exactly tissue-like).

A few quick bounce / hit / spin tests demonstrate the rubber is certainly quick, and very grippy, with very good spin potential and seemingly has a really surprising number of gears... Especially the low gears!! The top sheet is not truly non-tacky... it definitely has some tack to it. It's not hybrid level tacky mind you, but it can definitely lift a ball for a split second... But despite the lack of any genuine tack, the rubber felt utterly dead at first... Like flextra dead! The bounce was more like a H3 at first, I could swear the tack was suppressing the bounce, but it just wasn't sticky enough for that to be the case -- this top sheet has some serious gears built into it.

Haven't had a proper hit with it yet (that happens tomorrow)... But looping the ball down my hallway demonstrated it is indeed capable of displaying a pretty healthy high-arcing trajectory, followed by (apparently) truly f***en' stupid levels of kick at the bounce. (I therefore think it might potentially be a real hoot away from the table).

The weight of the cut rubber is about 47-48 grams, so not light, but not a true heavy weight either. During the bounce tests and hallway loops, the top-sheet was really wrapping itself around the ball thanks to that lovely soft top sheet. It felt quite magic frankly, and this explained the massive bouts of spin I was sometimes getting when I got the contact & brushing just right.

But the thing that really threw me, was the sight of regular "waves" in the top surface of the topsheet. Thought it was a manufacturing fault at first, but on closer inspection, it's not really. The waves are definitely there, but it's almost like a luminescence shift more than an actual undulation, as I couldn't really detect it with my fingertips.

So here's my question folks ('cause I won't know the answer myself 'till I have a proper hit with this thing):

... Am I going totally crazy, or am I really describing a re-badged Nittaku Hammond Z2?? 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

Never actually played with a Z2 yet, but the waves in the top sheet + it's Japanese development heritage seem like a real giveaway... The fact most of the purported playing features of a Z2 also match this rubber pretty well doesn't do much to dispel the notion.

I dunno -- maybe it is different -- gonna find out shortly anyway 🤷🏻

I'm genuinely confused by your description. Z2 is probably the most catapulty rubber around, it is very bouncy and speedy.

But you said the Telson is "dead" on bounce.

In what way are they similar?

 

[TensorBackhand]

Changed my FH rubber to Loki R9 a few days ago and an unboosted volant phoenix on my BH. Previously, I had B2 Gold on FH and Moon 12 on BH. I slapped these two chinese rubbers on my newly trusted Loki V5. The blade is very head heavy and heavy.

R9 is a great rubber. Powerful, even with a small movement, the ball still shoots out like a rocket. Monstrous spin, and the arc is quite high. The thing is, when I put more power into it, the ball often goes over the table. This is actually bad for me because I love hitting it hard in counterloop situation. Most of my FH counterloop went over the table. I think it's related to its high arc compared to the lower throw of B2 Gold. Well, gotta work on it.

Serving is superb. It's very easy to impart spin on serve. I have no complain here.

Is the R9 about the same speed as Volant Phoenix?

I found that Volant a fast and powerful FH rubber.

 

[Wakkibatty]

I'm genuinely confused by your description. Z2 is probably the most catapulty rubber around, it is very bouncy and speedy.

But you said the Telson is "dead" on bounce.

In what way are they similar?

Forgive me, I need to clarify what I meant 🙂

The Telson 100 only felt dead *at first* - ie: during the very first simple bounce test I conducted on it. I wasn't trying to bounce the ball very high at the time, just about 15 to 20 cm or so. It was just your most ball basic control exercise of bouncing a ball on the blade repeatedly, palm up on the FH side, to feel the springiness of the rubber.

During that initial bounce test, I just couldn't feel much catapult effect at all. It didn't feel like the linear bounce of something like a Mark V or Focus 3 either... it felt like something was preventing the ball from bouncing. When you first do a bounce test on an ultra tacky rubber, the tackbis so high it stops the ball flying off the rubber, and you really need to add force to the bounce to stop it sticking... Well this rubber felt like that at first, despite it being a non-tacky top sheet.

I actually had to touch the rubber with my fingertips to test the tackiness, to see if that was the problem. The rubber was mildly sticky, but nowhere near tacky enough to impede the bounce and make the rubber feel dead... The rubber was just unresponsive to gentle impacts.

The second I tried to bounce the ball higher however, the ball sunk more deeply into the sponge, and *then* I could feel some catapult.

I'm just not used to catapult / tensor style rubbers having a low gear ... Most of the super bouncy rubbers I've tried feel bouncy no matter how soft the impact. With this rubber however the low slow push-like impacts I created weren't strong enough to extract any catapult speed from it... Like I said, there was no bounce and it felt very 'dead'. Once the impact of each bounce went deeper into the rubber however, the rubber responded with that familiar 'ball-launch' feeling of a regular tensor rubber.

This tells me that the top sheet is either made of multiple elastomers, or maybe it has different densities to it, and the top sheet is probably a harder on the uppermost surface than it is a little further down.

It's almost like the force from shallow soft bounces don't reach the softer springy rubber below, and instead the impact is absorbed by slightly denser rubber on the surface -- that way you get less bounce during your short game, and your pushes don't spring up high or go long so easily... But then once you start hitting a bit harder, the impact forces start reaching the softer, deeper, springier rubber layers below the surface, and the rubber starts coming alive.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Forgive me, I need to clarify what I meant 🙂

The Telson 100 only felt dead *at first* - ie: during the very first simple bounce test I conducted on it. I wasn't trying to bounce the ball very high at the time, just about 15 to 20 cm or so. It was just your most ball basic control exercise of bouncing a ball on the blade repeatedly, palm up on the FH side, to feel the springiness of the rubber.

During that initial bounce test, I just couldn't feel much catapult effect at all. It didn't feel like the linear bounce of something like a Mark V or Focus 3 either... it felt like something was preventing the ball from bouncing. When you first do a bounce test on an ultra tacky rubber, the tackbis so high it stops the ball flying off the rubber, and you really need to add force to the bounce to stop it sticking... Well this rubber felt like that at first, despite it being a non-tacky top sheet.

I actually had to touch the rubber with my fingertips to test the tackiness, to see if that was the problem. The rubber was mildly sticky, but nowhere near tacky enough to impede the bounce and make the rubber feel dead... The rubber was just unresponsive to gentle impacts.

The second I tried to bounce the ball higher however, the ball sunk more deeply into the sponge, and *then* I could feel some catapult.

I'm just not used to catapult / tensor style rubbers having a low gear ... Most of the super bouncy rubbers I've tried feel bouncy no matter how soft the impact. With this rubber however the low slow push-like impacts I created weren't strong enough to extract any catapult speed from it... Like I said, there was no bounce and it felt very 'dead'. Once the impact of each bounce went deeper into the rubber however, the rubber responded with that familiar 'ball-launch' feeling of a regular tensor rubber.

This tells me that the top sheet is either made of multiple elastomers, or maybe it has different densities to it, and the top sheet is probably a harder on the uppermost surface than it is a little further down.

It's almost like the force from shallow soft bounces don't reach the softer springy rubber below, and instead the impact is absorbed by slightly denser rubber on the surface -- that way you get less bounce during your short game, and your pushes don't spring up high or go long so easily... But then once you start hitting a bit harder, the impact forces start reaching the softer, deeper, springier rubber layers below the surface, and the rubber starts coming alive.

So compared to Tenergy 05 or Vega Pro, where does Telson fall? Is it less bouncy/speedy? is it more speedy?

 

[latej]

Changed my FH rubber to Loki R9 a few days ago and an unboosted volant phoenix on my BH. Previously, I had B2 Gold on FH and Moon 12 on BH. I slapped these two chinese rubbers on my newly trusted Loki V5. The blade is very head heavy and heavy.

R9 is a great rubber. Powerful, even with a small movement, the ball still shoots out like a rocket. Monstrous spin, and the arc is quite high. The thing is, when I put more power into it, the ball often goes over the table. This is actually bad for me because I love hitting it hard in counterloop situation. Most of my FH counterloop went over the table. I think it's related to its high arc compared to the lower throw of B2 Gold. Well, gotta work on it.

Serving is superb. It's very easy to impart spin on serve. I have no complain here.

It's good to hear you like the R9. I like it a lot too. On the other hand, on you description I can see, how everything is relative. To say that ball shoots out like a rocket with small movement. That it strange. For me the R9 has the typical chinese dense sponge, which, in order to get speed (for normal hits) a bit closer to ESN rubber, needs to be boosted. I love the feeling from these rubbers. But noone yet told me this rubber is fast like a rocket. In fact opponents sometimes even complain, that sometimes it is so slow it breaks their rhytm. Clubmates or players I train with mostly tell me I should get something "normal", where normal is something like D05, or at least RZ EH. They all without exception think this rubber (these kind of rubbers) is slower than the ESN/Butterfly rubbers. Perhaps if you boost hell of it, but even then (I couldn't even glue it), it was still less bouncy on "normal" hits, like on normal FH 1-to-1 drive play.

I notice things like that happen very often. Somebody say Hammond Z2 feels softish, team-mate has it on the FH side. We both feel it is simply too hard for the BH for us. I guess I want to say, what we feel about rubbers is so personal. To take something usable I need to read/see how someone here compares rubbers. Then I can get some usable info from it.

I play with these rubbers because I like it. I also think rubber like that, say H3 37-39, or B2 37, 39, etc. are good for returning or developing players. It forces you to do the movement fully, and it doesn't force you artificially slow down (brake) your movement, which is contra-productive. In that sense it can save time. Training is more important than rubbers, but having correct rubbers can save time, too fast can slow the progress down. I'm aware everything what I say is not new, but occasionaly repeating is OK.

 

[mattlamperouge]

Forgive me, I need to clarify what I meant 🙂

The Telson 100 only felt dead *at first* - ie: during the very first simple bounce test I conducted on it. I wasn't trying to bounce the ball very high at the time, just about 15 to 20 cm or so. It was just your most ball basic control exercise of bouncing a ball on the blade repeatedly, palm up on the FH side, to feel the springiness of the rubber.

During that initial bounce test, I just couldn't feel much catapult effect at all. It didn't feel like the linear bounce of something like a Mark V or Focus 3 either... it felt like something was preventing the ball from bouncing. When you first do a bounce test on an ultra tacky rubber, the tackbis so high it stops the ball flying off the rubber, and you really need to add force to the bounce to stop it sticking... Well this rubber felt like that at first, despite it being a non-tacky top sheet.

I actually had to touch the rubber with my fingertips to test the tackiness, to see if that was the problem. The rubber was mildly sticky, but nowhere near tacky enough to impede the bounce and make the rubber feel dead... The rubber was just unresponsive to gentle impacts.

The second I tried to bounce the ball higher however, the ball sunk more deeply into the sponge, and *then* I could feel some catapult.

I'm just not used to catapult / tensor style rubbers having a low gear ... Most of the super bouncy rubbers I've tried feel bouncy no matter how soft the impact. With this rubber however the low slow push-like impacts I created weren't strong enough to extract any catapult speed from it... Like I said, there was no bounce and it felt very 'dead'. Once the impact of each bounce went deeper into the rubber however, the rubber responded with that familiar 'ball-launch' feeling of a regular tensor rubber.

This tells me that the top sheet is either made of multiple elastomers, or maybe it has different densities to it, and the top sheet is probably a harder on the uppermost surface than it is a little further down.

It's almost like the force from shallow soft bounces don't reach the softer springy rubber below, and instead the impact is absorbed by slightly denser rubber on the surface -- that way you get less bounce during your short game, and your pushes don't spring up high or go long so easily... But then once you start hitting a bit harder, the impact forces start reaching the softer, deeper, springier rubber layers below the surface, and the rubber starts coming alive.

I felt what you describe when I first removed the protection film on Loki Arthur Europe Diamond, rubber felt somewhat tacky & a bit dead, but it went away after cleaning the topsheet & hitting a bit!

 

[mattlamperouge]

Here she is... You tell me folks, is the top sheet a match?

View attachment 29841

Looks quite good & your description is promising, does it look a bit like Yasaka Hovering Dragon?