My experience with Chinese rubbers

[enoxzr]

Changed around somethings as I damaged two rubbers during training and then grabbing my stuff from storage the EJ bug bit me.

Main blade is now H8 39 on the FH, with the same Sanwei Gear Hyper on the BH. Really loving that BH so far, lets see how the H8 does as replacement to my Rxton 3 Pro.

On the T11s I now have a Jupiter III 37 with the Moon 12 as BH, as a spare setup. Hard blade with softer rubbers.

On my Long V clone I decided to give my LP experiment a go. Stuck a sheet of Yinhe Neptune 0.7 to the BH, keeping the H3 Neo 39 on the FH. Will play this occasionally, maybe to prep teammates to face LP and to experience LP myself, had been thinking about switching to offensive LP on the BH.

 

[Lawsy]

I signed up literally just to suggest that you try Battle 2 Provincial Blue Sponge (at least 39, DO NOT bother with 38, because it's otherwise identical but with a speed limiter), or even better, Battle 3.

In the last couple of months, I've run the Battle 3 39 on a T11S for my forehand and it was very strange at first. However, after about 12 - 15 hours, it finally broke in and woah, it just clicked and I could suddenly feel what was going on (it also got faster, right up to the limit. Very odd). It's the best setup I've ever used, and keeping it clean meant I had enough tack to still pickup balls after 25 hours.

Now, I will admit, I'm biased.
My first "real" setup was all 729, from 20 years ago (2x Geospin tacky on 729 Bomb Off. I still have it, and it still plays. Not very well, but it does). Thus, when coming back to the sport (in a proper way a year or so back), such a strong, positive association was hard to break, so I went straight back to 729...

No regrets.

The Battle 2 Prov plays so nicely, especially the blue sponge, that I've had to put together half a dozen bats for family, friends and colleagues, upon their request. Everyone wanted B2P on the forehand (Blue Sponge or not), and since I'm cheap, they all had various Yinhe blades. They all love it and can't believe how fun table tennis is with "real bats"...

Anyway, I guess that's my first post!
Cheers.

 

[thommy_f]

Do you recommend boosting Battle 3 39? @Lawsy

 

[Lawsy]

Do you recommend boosting Battle 3 39? @Lawsy

Nope!

But you'll certainly be tempted when it's brand new. I looked at a few boosters on Ali Express that first week...

And don't read some of the comments under the B3 reviews on reddit. I was almost dissuaded by this tiny minority of negative reviews, which in hindsight, were based on utter horse crap. One even suggested the ball was "slipping" during loops. When you feel the mechanical grip of B3, let alone the tack, you'll understand how moronic that is.

Now, I must confess, that's a big call for me to make (and somewhat hypocritical), considering I actively decided to put a hard, tacky rubber on a hard, rigid T11S with zero dwell; especially since my sole purpose in table tennis is to play disgusting power loops at every opportunity. Yeah, who's the moron now? Probably me... But the gamble paid off because I've never had so much fun playing table tennis before, and I've loved this sport for over 30 years.

Anyway, it took more than a few big sessions to get used to that setup, as well as break in the B3. During which I was genuinely disappointed, until I wasn't. And then a couple of weeks ago, I realised I was involuntarily smiling at the first few power loops of that day. They just felt so clean, yet so violent, at the same time. Pure filth! Just don't expect that in the first hour or three.

Annnnd then I sold that bat.
Thankfully, a pretty spicy replacement arrives in a day or two...

 

[enoxzr]

Thanks for the suggestion @Lawsy!

It just happens that I have the Battle 3 in my wishlist so will pick it up in my next round on AliExpress. For Battle 3 the regular version is sufficient or should you also get a blue sponge?

 

[TensorBackhand]

Nope!

But you'll certainly be tempted when it's brand new. I looked at a few boosters on Ali Express that first week...

And don't read some of the comments under the B3 reviews on reddit. I was almost dissuaded by this tiny minority of negative reviews, which in hindsight, were based on utter horse crap. One even suggested the ball was "slipping" during loops. When you feel the mechanical grip of B3, let alone the tack, you'll understand how moronic that is.

Now, I must confess, that's a big call for me to make (and somewhat hypocritical), considering I actively decided to put a hard, tacky rubber on a hard, rigid T11S with zero dwell; especially since my sole purpose in table tennis is to play disgusting power loops at every opportunity. Yeah, who's the moron now? Probably me... But the gamble paid off because I've never had so much fun playing table tennis before, and I've loved this sport for over 30 years.

Anyway, it took more than a few big sessions to get used to that setup, as well as break in the B3. During which I was genuinely disappointed, until I wasn't. And then a couple of weeks ago, I realised I was involuntarily smiling at the first few power loops of that day. They just felt so clean, yet so violent, at the same time. Pure filth! Just don't expect that in the first hour or three.

Annnnd then I sold that bat.
Thankfully, a pretty spicy replacement arrives in a day or two...

Does B3 have the same throw angle as B2?

 

[gordonluvsu]

I can vouch for Battle 3.
My setup Was 40 degree with 2 layers seamoon on my Yinhe Pro 05.
Really good rubber with a Medium throw angle that is comfortable and dangerous.
Price Performance ratio is awesome as well.
H3 and R9 were a little higher but not by much.
Only switched because it has been a couple of months and the booster probably fell off.
Also, I wanted my R9 back.

 

[sky500]

Wondering how you would review the H3 Neo provincial since it's literally the benchmark for Chinese Rubbers, disregarding the national version because of the price. But I heard you have to boost it otherwise it becomes dead after a while.

 

[enoxzr]

I've been eyeing then Rxton 9 as well @gordonluvsu but was a bit drawn back to pay ~32 euros for a Loki rubber, as you have DHS H3N/H8 for even less. @sky500 I reckon that the Provincials are a step too high for me, seeing I most likely can't reach the ceiling of the commercial variants of the H3N.

But seeing how I am liking the H8 39, might as well give it a go sometime. So got Battle 3, Rxton 9 39 on the list for a future purchase, gonna revisit Bloom Power 44, Jupiter 3 and Big Dipper too on 39 hardness in black.

Yesterday I swapped out the Sanwei Gear Hyper for a Palio AK47 Red on my main blade. Teammate loves his AK47 Yellow, which is a bit soft for my main blade as I dont think that it likes too soft rubbers that well. Eager to see how bad the durability is on the Red, my teammates Yellow edges are falling off like grated cheese every session for 3 months of ~4 to 5 hours per week.

Also I have a Yinhe N10s coming soon which I will trying OX LP on, so I removed the Neptune 0.7 from my Stuor blade and glued the Rxton 1 I had laying around to that backhand.

Gonna give these setups a go the coming week and then decide what I am gonna do with the H8 on my main blade. Somewhat eager to transfer the H3N to it, ifso the H8 most likely will be transferred to the LP blade, as my current setup on the T11s is my safe fallback setup and not keen on changing that during the league season.

 

[Lawsy]

Thanks for the suggestion @Lawsy!

It just happens that I have the Battle 3 in my wishlist so will pick it up in my next round on AliExpress. For Battle 3 the regular version is sufficient or should you also get a blue sponge?

@enoxzr As far as I'm aware, there is no Blue Sponge variant of the Battle 3.
My current Ali Express supplier is BEO Store, everything has been genuine as they have a direct relationship with DHS/729 (the bat arriving this week is the 7th since November). For the last few, I've let them assemble for me, and honestly, I couldn't have done a better job myself, and I'm really pedantic.

Your experience might be different—if you're using a blade that you're used to—but as I've mentioned above, put some time into the Battle 3 before you judge it, and keep it clean (water, your fingers or the soft blue sponges you often get are fine).

Does B3 have the same throw angle as B2?

Just so you have a frame of reference, the bat I built and used for a few months back in December was:

• FH: Battle 2 Prov (Blue Sponge, 39)
• BH: Battle 2 Prov (Orange, 38). I hadn't realised the 37 existed yet...
• Y-13 (a surprisingly capable blade with decent dwell and speed).

I found B2P BS to have a very neutral throw angle. For me, this meant a comfortable wrist position, even for aggressive loops (but maybe that's just because I've played table tennis my whole life). What mattered the most, however, was the consistency of throw across the full power range, even after some of the tack was lost throughout a session. The B2P Orange 38 throw angle was fractionally higher, but not by much.

With that in mind, I found Battle 3 39, on a T11S, to be very similar to these, and since the T11S has a fractionally lower throw than the Y13, I think it's safe to say that the angle is like the B2P Orange, with the consistency of the B2P Blue.

Keep in mind, we are talking about very fine difference, so much so that if you weren't concentrating, you would naturally adjust to either without thinking.

Wondering how you would review the H3 Neo provincial since it's literally the benchmark for Chinese Rubbers, disregarding the national version because of the price. But I heard you have to boost it otherwise it becomes dead after a while.

There are so many versions that it's technically accurate to state that the vast majority of H3 variants require boosting to meet expectations. This seems insane to me, which is why I have no interest in actually owning a setup using one of the generally available H3 rubbers (Neo's or otherwise) that may or may not be real, so I may or may not have to peel it off and boost it, just for a chance that it might be as good as what I'm already using...
No thanks.

From reading the experience of many others, the benefit of boosting B2 (any variant) is not significant enough to be worthwhile, generally speaking (a few saw good results from B2P BS 40, if I recall).

 

[Lawsy]

Since I posted some reviews on RS, my inbox blew up with questions and even suggestions that I should collate my findings and post on a forum. Since I don't have time to write the novel-length post required to cover this at the moment, I thought I would share the start of my foray into taking table tennis to the next level at work too seriously, as it's quite relevant to this thread.

Starting with this:
"Hard, Chinese tacky rubbers are dead and slow. That is, unless you boost, have arms like Arnold, or the technique of Ma Long."

Sound familiar?
At the onset of diving into this rabbit hole, I was very concerned (and almost convinced) by the overwhelming barrage of comments that echoed this sentiment. I almost didn't buy anything. Thankfully, the blind 729 fanboy within me clicked the "place order" button, and I ordered the B2P BS 39 + B2P 38 + Y13 setup.

An hour after gluing it together, I started hitting an old ball around the house and honestly, my heart sank by the result. It felt dead.

I then went into my first session at the table with low expectations, trying to convince myself that I would "get good enough to use it, eventually". However, in reality, I felt like a moron that had just wasted money on a hard, tacky rubber combination that I had no business with—not at my skill level. And what's worse is that I had been warned....

As soon as I hit the first few balls cleanly, barely at rally pace, the relief I felt hit me like a brick to the face, evidenced by the giant, idiotic smile across it (and my colleague asking if I was high).
.
"They're absolutely full of crap. This is fantastic." I thought.

Since then, in the many private messages I've received, this exact same sentiment has been reflected many times, at least, for the Battle 2 Provincial series (including the Max, Gold, Soft 37 and both blue sponge variants).

So make of that story what you will, but my experience has been nothing but a pleasure with these rubbers, and I think the PTSD left by several generations of terrible-unless-boosted Hurricane 3 needs to be cured, because Hard, tacky Chinese rubbers, when done right, are awesome.

 

[Lawsy]

Sooooo, my new setup arrived a few days ago.
V14 Pro
729 Battle 3 (40 black)
DHS Gold Arc 8 (50 red)
Two layers of glue, every surface.
-----------
My previous setup:
T11S (slightly faster, but little dwell).
Battle 3 (39 black).
B2P Soft (37 red).
I sold this (nephew). An ideal excuse to build something cool.
-----------

What a monster!

After 3 days, I am still getting used to the GA8; the higher throw (but only if the incoming topspin is beyond a certain threshold, it's weird) is something to get used to, but it is otherwise rather nice. However, even this 50 hardness variant is not the blindingly fast ESN substitute everyone claims (yet is meant to be faster than the 47.5).

It's made me realize that my experience using the B2P Soft 37 wasn't just good in my own little vacuum, either. GA8 is not much faster up to rally pace, and B2P Soft 37 had the throw angle consistency I'm always harping on about with B2 series rubbers, which make blocks and drives a little easier. However, a little more low-end punch is nice, so I can see why people like GA8 during rallies. I'll have to master it before I judge it.

I know I'm hijacking this thread a bit, but I have to mention this: the very positive V14 Pro reviews on revspin are 100% accurate, and it genuinely exceeded my expectations. The feedback is silky smooth, the slightly thicker handle is the most comfortable I've used (I'm 6'4", so keep that in mind), it's plenty fast, but not too fast, and has enough dwell for the B3 40 to do its job. It is such a pleasure to use.

Battle 3 40.
Probably more relevant for this thread.
It's quicker than I thought it would be (I expected +1 hardness to be a little deader at low speeds). You can tell that a little more input is required to get the sponge to engage in the warm up rally, but it's so linear that you don't care. Plus, you gain much more than you lose as soon as you actually start hitting the ball.


Service is very nice.
Being fractionally slower at minimum ball speeds has improved control and since I changed my serve to generate more spin, I've been struggling to keep it short. The 40 has helped with that. Very good.

Mid-distance power loops/big topspin drives.
Now, I loosely define mid-distance as being at least half a table back (maybe plus a step).
Not surprisingly, these feel like the 39.
Whatever dwell I'm losing going +1 hardness, I must be gaining from the V14 Pro over the T11S (and maybe a little more). This thing is straight up dropping nukes from this distance, with ease.

However, I found stepping further back was an issue.

Whatever 729 has tuned into B3, or whatever advances they've made regarding the interaction between the top sheet and sponge at high energy levels, it has resulted in an absurd amount of mechanical grip. This was late in the session, and since the balls were rolling around on the floor, the rubber was filthy and had little tack at this point. Yet the trajectory was like a loop, just a crap tonne faster.

I guess I'll need to adjust (though, I rarely get to swing like that, so...).

Since the B3 39 had a fairly noticeable break in, I assume this 40 will as well (not guaranteed, but likely). Not sure what to expect to be honest, but I'm looking forward to it!

 

[enoxzr]

With input like this @Lawsy you are excused of "hijacking" 😇.

I did a little swap around last week as I wanted to prep my Yinhe N10s setup for OX LP use and free up my Stuor blade, which meant I would have to move my H3N 39 from it.

In the end I moved it to my main blade, still with the Palio AK47 Red on the BH. Adjusting to lifting and flicking balls with it, but touches, serves, drives and blocks are coming naturally. The H3N 39 with the untacky topsheet is surprising me a lot in a positive way. It seems to have the balance between being slow on touches and passive shots and speeding up when going for bigger strokes. Only really have to adjust my serves a bit moving from mainly tacky FH rubbers.

This meant I took the H8 39 off my main blade and for now moved it to the N10s with a Dawei 388D-1 OX on the BH. I intend to break it out to prep teammates for playing against LP and giving it a proper go after the local league has ended. So far from limited test, I enjoy OX LP far more than with a small sponge.

For now I will be keeping my main blade the same till the end of the local league season. When that ends we have a pre-summer league in which I intend to give the LP setup a go, might give that a different FH in due time.

 

[Lawsy]

Oh, one of the bats I built for a colleague is the N10S.

Cheap and cheerful.
Noticeably slower, even compared with the Y-13. It also had more coarse feedback, though, similar amounts of it.
I wanted slow and linear, so Focus 3 Snipe on the back, and you guessed it, B2P 38 on the forehand.

Interestingly, when you really nail it right in the sweet spot, you can still send nasty stuff across the table.

The backhand feels like it has infinite control, and B2P just does the thing I've said previous. Linear, quick, lots of spin, more control than it has a right to (especially at this price), and way more top-end punch than my colleague can use right now.

 

[gordonluvsu]

@Lawsy
Have you played with Battle 3 boosted?
I have not tested my B3 40 without booster so far.
After reboosting it 2 with layers seamoon, it plays really well.
On my current blade, I does everything, really well with high quality.
Even better than my Pro 05 with R9.

 

[Lawsy]

@Lawsy
Have you played with Battle 3 boosted?
I have not tested my B3 40 without booster so far.
After reboosting it 2 with layers seamoon, it plays really well.
On my current blade, I does everything, really well with high quality.
Even better than my Pro 05 with R9.

No, actually, I haven't. I'd certainly be interested to see the difference, though.

My goal with this setup is to have as much consistency and longevity as possible, now that I've found what I like. And on the V14 Pro, I'm not sure I really need it.

I'm launching nukes as is and I don't think anyone at work will play with me if things get any faster. 😕

 

[IB66]

For the last 3 to 4 weeks I've been playing with Battle 3 on FH and Loki Arthur China on BH, both un-boosted.
Out of the pack, the amount of tackiness and bounce drop test were virtually identical.
The speed was the main difference, LAC being faster than B3. After I initially glued them to my blade (SDC all wood Primoac clone) I had a quick session, maybe 1/2 an hour trying both on FH & BH and the LAC was definitely quicker.
I haven't hit a single FH with LAC or a BH with B3 during practice or match play since that initial test!!! so I cant really compare them against each other. I can compare them better against Tau 2.
What I can say is that both have good spin and control.
I had to adapt serves somewhat compared to the Xiom Tau 2 (FH & BH) I had previously been using. Both B3 and LAC have less bounce and less spin for similar racket speed, so I would rate Tau 2 as slightly more spinny for serves, than both LAC and B3, mind you the Tau 2 is worn in, and therefore has marginally less tackiness and more bounce and a softer feel overall.
FH looping with B3 is decent on par with Tau 2, spin seems pretty much equal. I think I prefer the B3 though!!
BH topspin with LAC is good, fast and good spin. At first the additional speed of LAC compared to Tau 2 caught me out with balls going long, now I've adapted it plays very well.
LAC because of it being faster is slightly harder to control when blocking, with a crisper feel than Tau 2.
Open ups against back spin with both the B3 and LAC are very nice, high spin when brushed correctly, a little more effort needed than with the broken in Tau 2.
Both B3 and LAC will be used for the rest of the season, I've been playing well with this set up and don't need to change.
Haven't noticed any deterioration or blisters / bubbling on the LAC, which has been an issue for some users apparently.
Overall
I think LAC is faster than Tau2, Tau 2 is faster than B3.
Ease of spin and strength of spin when serving Tau 2 > LAC & B3.
FH loop v Backspin - B3 = Tau 2 for spin.
BH loop v Backspin - LAC = Tau 2 for spin.
Control FH - B3 > Tau 2
Control BH - LAC = Tau 2
Pushing FH - B3 > Tau 2
Pushing BH - LAC = Tau 2
Close to the table FH drive - Tau 2 > B3 - I did notice the occasional ball slipping with B3, probably due to some dust. but Tau 2 feels 'safer' B3 needs more brushing with every stroke. Mainly a quality of play issue on my part.
Close to the table BH drive - LAC > Tau 2,
BH flick - LAC = Tau 2
FH flick - B3 > Tau 2
Away from table FH topspin / loop kill B3 > Tau 2, maybe because Tau 2 has a higher throw than B3.
Away from Table BH topspin LAC > Tau 2, LAC is faster and has similar spin.
Reaction to spin / spin sensitivity -Tau 2 more spin sensitive than both B3 and LAC, even though Tau 2 has less tackiness. especially noticeable to me when pushing on FH

Please remember these are my personal thoughts and EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT!!!!

 

[TensorBackhand]

For the last 3 to 4 weeks I've been playing with Battle 3 on FH and Loki Arthur China on BH, both un-boosted.
Out of the pack, the amount of tackiness and bounce drop test were virtually identical.
The speed was the main difference, LAC being faster than B3. After I initially glued them to my blade (SDC all wood Primoac clone) I had a quick session, maybe 1/2 an hour trying both on FH & BH and the LAC was definitely quicker.
I haven't hit a single FH with LAC or a BH with B3 during practice or match play since that initial test!!! so I cant really compare them against each other. I can compare them better against Tau 2.
What I can say is that both have good spin and control.
I had to adapt serves somewhat compared to the Xiom Tau 2 (FH & BH) I had previously been using. Both B3 and LAC have less bounce and less spin for similar racket speed, so I would rate Tau 2 as slightly more spinny for serves, than both LAC and B3, mind you the Tau 2 is worn in, and therefore has marginally less tackiness and more bounce and a softer feel overall.
FH looping with B3 is decent on par with Tau 2, spin seems pretty much equal. I think I prefer the B3 though!!
BH topspin with LAC is good, fast and good spin. At first the additional speed of LAC compared to Tau 2 caught me out with balls going long, now I've adapted it plays very well.
LAC because of it being faster is slightly harder to control when blocking, with a crisper feel than Tau 2.
Open ups against back spin with both the B3 and LAC are very nice, high spin when brushed correctly, a little more effort needed than with the broken in Tau 2.
Both B3 and LAC will be used for the rest of the season, I've been playing well with this set up and don't need to change.
Haven't noticed any deterioration or blisters / bubbling on the LAC, which has been an issue for some users apparently.
Overall
I think LAC is faster than Tau2, Tau 2 is faster than B3.
Ease of spin and strength of spin when serving Tau 2 > LAC & B3.
FH loop v Backspin - B3 = Tau 2 for spin.
BH loop v Backspin - LAC = Tau 2 for spin.
Control FH - B3 > Tau 2
Control BH - LAC = Tau 2
Pushing FH - B3 > Tau 2
Pushing BH - LAC = Tau 2
Close to the table FH drive - Tau 2 > B3 - I did notice the occasional ball slipping with B3, probably due to some dust. but Tau 2 feels 'safer' B3 needs more brushing with every stroke. Mainly a quality of play issue on my part.
Close to the table BH drive - LAC > Tau 2,
BH flick - LAC = Tau 2
FH flick - B3 > Tau 2
Away from table FH topspin / loop kill B3 > Tau 2, maybe because Tau 2 has a higher throw than B3.
Away from Table BH topspin LAC > Tau 2, LAC is faster and has similar spin.
Reaction to spin / spin sensitivity -Tau 2 more spin sensitive than both B3 and LAC, even though Tau 2 has less tackiness. especially noticeable to me when pushing on FH

Please remember these are my personal thoughts and EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT!!!!

Any idea how B3 compares to B2 and Battle Max?

 

[mocker88]

For the last 3 to 4 weeks I've been playing with Battle 3 on FH and Loki Arthur China on BH, both un-boosted.
Out of the pack, the amount of tackiness and bounce drop test were virtually identical.
The speed was the main difference, LAC being faster than B3. After I initially glued them to my blade (SDC all wood Primoac clone) I had a quick session, maybe 1/2 an hour trying both on FH & BH and the LAC was definitely quicker.
I haven't hit a single FH with LAC or a BH with B3 during practice or match play since that initial test!!! so I cant really compare them against each other. I can compare them better against Tau 2.
What I can say is that both have good spin and control.
I had to adapt serves somewhat compared to the Xiom Tau 2 (FH & BH) I had previously been using. Both B3 and LAC have less bounce and less spin for similar racket speed, so I would rate Tau 2 as slightly more spinny for serves, than both LAC and B3, mind you the Tau 2 is worn in, and therefore has marginally less tackiness and more bounce and a softer feel overall.
FH looping with B3 is decent on par with Tau 2, spin seems pretty much equal. I think I prefer the B3 though!!
BH topspin with LAC is good, fast and good spin. At first the additional speed of LAC compared to Tau 2 caught me out with balls going long, now I've adapted it plays very well.
LAC because of it being faster is slightly harder to control when blocking, with a crisper feel than Tau 2.
Open ups against back spin with both the B3 and LAC are very nice, high spin when brushed correctly, a little more effort needed than with the broken in Tau 2.
Both B3 and LAC will be used for the rest of the season, I've been playing well with this set up and don't need to change.
Haven't noticed any deterioration or blisters / bubbling on the LAC, which has been an issue for some users apparently.
Overall
I think LAC is faster than Tau2, Tau 2 is faster than B3.
Ease of spin and strength of spin when serving Tau 2 > LAC & B3.
FH loop v Backspin - B3 = Tau 2 for spin.
BH loop v Backspin - LAC = Tau 2 for spin.
Control FH - B3 > Tau 2
Control BH - LAC = Tau 2
Pushing FH - B3 > Tau 2
Pushing BH - LAC = Tau 2
Close to the table FH drive - Tau 2 > B3 - I did notice the occasional ball slipping with B3, probably due to some dust. but Tau 2 feels 'safer' B3 needs more brushing with every stroke. Mainly a quality of play issue on my part.
Close to the table BH drive - LAC > Tau 2,
BH flick - LAC = Tau 2
FH flick - B3 > Tau 2
Away from table FH topspin / loop kill B3 > Tau 2, maybe because Tau 2 has a higher throw than B3.
Away from Table BH topspin LAC > Tau 2, LAC is faster and has similar spin.
Reaction to spin / spin sensitivity -Tau 2 more spin sensitive than both B3 and LAC, even though Tau 2 has less tackiness. especially noticeable to me when pushing on FH

Please remember these are my personal thoughts and EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT!!!!

Really nice compare. Thank you

 

[mocker88]

Any idea how B3 compares to B2 and Battle Max?

B3 has a softer touch. More of a tiny catapult feel and gives good effect even if you don't close your bat that much.