Initial Ratings for USATT

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There have been some threads lately where people want an estimate of their rating based on their performance. Using the average between the best win and worst loss is kind of a cop out when computers are now used to run tournaments.

I have a better algorithm for estimating ratings. It would take into account all the matches played and the ratings of all the players. Given any outcome I can find the estimated rating that will maximize the probability of that outcome occurring. It takes a little number crunching because the process is iterative.

For instance if a player beats a 1800 and loses to 2 2000 players his rating would be 2057. If the he beats a 1800 player and loses to a 2000 player and a 3000 player his rating is 1899.999993 or basically 1900. This is the same that you would expect if the player only played 2 matches and beat the 1800 player and lost to the 2000 player. You can see the loss to the 3000 player is not weighted very heavily. In the same way, wins against weak players will be lightly weighted. The algorithm takes care of the weighting process. The first example would look like this
pwl(r-1800)^2+pwl(2000-r)^2+pwl(2000-r)^2=???
The idea is to find the rating r that would maximize ???
Since the probabilities are between 0 and 1 then 3 is the maximum value of ???

There can be multiple players with unknown ratings and my system will still work but there must be some "anchor" ratings to keep all the ratings from drifting high or low.

One of the functions used is a probability of win loss function
pwl(?R)=1/(1+exp(-?*?R))
the probability of winning if rated 100 points higher is
pwl(100)=0.837879
obviously the probability of winning if rated 100 points lower is
pwl(-100)=0.162121
The two probabilities should add up to 1.
The first trick is finding the value of ? so the the pwl() function matches the USATT tables as close a possible. My pwl function looks a lot like the ratings central function. The USATT tables are a joke because they are just that, tables with discrete jumps in rating changes rather a smooth function like my pwl() function and the ratings central function.

So why hasn't anybody found a better solution better than best win and worst loss? You get what you put up with if you are lucky.
 
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Perhaps folks concluded that it is not worth the effort to make initial estimate as accurate as possible, because it will become more accurate by itself as new player plays more matches. Especially since no one ever bothers to quote estimation error for the rating (Ratings Central does, though): I am fully aware that my 1747 rating easily has ~40-50 point uncertainty, but I still pay attention to the last digit, even though I know I should not :) .
 
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In my last sanctioned tourney not too long ago, I lost to the owner's son (after defeating him TWICE earlier rounds) who was 1800s.

Last two weeks in league, I defeated two 2000-2050 players and a 2200 OX LP retriever/attacker... these guys dont really do tourneys and they play fiercer in league than a tourney.

That shows you some volatility.

Next Level and I are very close similar playing level, I got by him last meetup, he smoked me like preserved fish this time around.

Sometimes it works like that... even if your playing level is the same, you might perform better or worse on certain days/matches/time of day/how well the Bengals are playing...
 
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Our own member pgpg saw me play (or better yet, NOT play so well) in a Boston tourney last spring. I was hot garbage level, lost to a 1300,1400,1500 did the trifecta and I was supposed to be rated mid upper 1800s and my actual playing level waz prolly 1500.

Unfortunately, despite how ate up I was, I still played vs the defenders to defend my no loss to defender near my level policy.

Pgpg right now is at a level prolly 2 levels better than I was in April 2015, but I am recovered now and prolly playing at my best level ever. Hopefully I get to show it this tourney coming this weekend where NL and Schemer_SC will show up to cleanup.
 
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Don't worry about him Carl, he is of that category who show up in a thread, makes an outrageous or rude one liners and then disappears :)

Na, he is a good kid who just started on this forum and has a NYC attitude which can be good and can also get in his way. Hopefully I will drag him to SPiN and hit with him and see how he plays. But he plays at a place that does have a lot of good players around. It is just also hard to get table time there. So, even though I have been hard on crayon in a few posts, it is not because I think he is that.

But hanging out with him and hitting the ball around with him will be a good thing if we can get it to happen. And in forums like this someone can sort of pretend to be anything.

Justin, this weekend I am too busy so it probably won't happen. But we should shoot for meeting up at SPiN and hitting the ball around some time soon like next weekend. Don't worry about the cost of table time. I already told you, that will be on me.

But you should know, that for someone to have a rating of 1200, it doesn't usually mean that they can beat the other 1200 players they know. You could be around there. That might be an accurate assessment. 1200 is not too high but it is not so low either. However, the only way you actually know your level and your rating is by playing in several sanctioned tournaments so that your rating levels out to where it should be. Now, if you play well against pips players and smooth players at that level, you might be that level. But if you are worse against one or the other, you could be decently lower than you think. If you play well against both you could also be higher than you think.

I will give you a different example. I used to know this guy whose rating was always between 1400-1600. Every so often it would go up to about 1600 but then, invariably he would fall back into the 1500s and 1400s. When he was in the 1400 range it usually wouldn't go below 1450 but once in a while he'd have a bad loss and it would. When people would ask him his level he would say 1900. If you probed further he would say, well, I beat a lot of guys who are 1900. But when you looked at his tournament performance, it was almost true: he would beat a lot of guys who were in the 1800 range. However, he would lose to a lot of guys who were 1200-1500. If you did not watch him play you might scratch your head and wonder. How could he beat this guy with a rating of 1889 and lose to this joker with a rating of 1290?

But if you watched him play a few opponent's you would realize something. He was what I used to call an anti-spin retard. If you played fast and kept looping, he was pretty decent. But, with smooth rubber I could beat him just by pushing and mixing dead and heavy spin on my pushes. And when he was playing a pips player, it didn't even matter if they were a bad pips player, he just really sucked. He had no idea how to play them and no ability to understand what would be coming back at him off their racket.

So the result was that he was really a 1500 player. Regardless of the fact that he played 50/50 against certain 1800 players.

Now, your assessment is not outrageous or off the wall. You could be 1200. I don't know, I have not seen you play. But, unless you play a lot of tournaments, you won't really know what your actual level is.
 
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Our own member pgpg saw me play (or better yet, NOT play so well) in a Boston tourney last spring. I was hot garbage level, lost to a 1300,1400,1500 did the trifecta and I was supposed to be rated mid upper 1800s and my actual playing level waz prolly 1500.

Unfortunately, despite how ate up I was, I still played vs the defenders to defend my no loss to defender near my level policy.

Pgpg right now is at a level prolly 2 levels better than I was in April 2015, but I am recovered now and prolly playing at my best level ever. Hopefully I get to show it this tourney coming this weekend where NL and Schemer_SC will show up to cleanup.

Well, in that tourney you actually lost to 1121 (official rating, but 5+ years old, on match sheets he was listed as ~1500 I think), 1467 (who is probably a really good example of imperfect initial rating assignment - he's MUCH better than that but only played one tournament before that) and 1721 (but it went to 5 games, so not really that much of a shock).

What can I say - ratings, especially for juniors, people with only 2-3 matches, or someone who did not play in many years, are not that accurate. It all averages in the end, though :)
 
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It was all good. After I moved to Boston for two months, I did numbers numerous times to all of them in league defeating whoever else I faced and lost that day. I should come outta that tourney 1472. Doesn't matter anyway, I will not be under 1800 for the next decade unless I get hurt or a case of serious prolong dumb-azz.

We talked about all that noise to show how in real time how volatile it can all be.
 
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OK, I get it. No one cares. Fine. The idea can work for whole tournaments but there needs to be some refinements to handle every situation.
Doesn't matter anyway, I will not be under 1800 for the next decade unless I get hurt or a case of serious prolong dumb-azz.
I call that a case of ISuckAtThisItis.
We all get it from time to time like the cold.
 
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Yup, the occasional case of stricken by dumbazzitis, often compounded by an ever increasing case of oldazzitis. It happens, especially when you think your style or shots or shot sequence ought to prevail and foolishly continue to play the game the same way. A lot of O50 Chinese gents make a living off that at my local DC area club.
 
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Will NOT be at this rating long a lot of these guys are under rated by 100 points... or more.

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Yup, the occasional case of stricken by dumbazzitis, often compounded by an ever increasing case of oldazzitis. It happens, especially when you think your style or shots or shot sequence ought to prevail and foolishly continue to play the game the same way. A lot of O50 Chinese gents make a living off that at my local DC area club.

Speaking about having a case of stubbornitis... I kept trying to do the same macho thing vs this 50 yr old 2000ish Chinese O50 chopper dude, his hands were soft, but heck, when you are on the other end you think it is all heavier than it really is. Missed SO MANY loops 1-2" out rats ! Failed to adjust and someone on sidelines watching it all told me what I did and failed to do and they were right. I blamed it on Joola's 40+ ball and not making shots I would normally make. haha, TOO much headstrong dumbassitis took over me is what really happened.
 
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