Dilemma with Random-MultiBall

Shuki · Feb 11, 2016

I've come across a problem recently with doing Random multi-ball drills with my coach. This is when the coach will give you backspin, high balls, topspin balls, no spin, quick, slow, short, long just randomly from their bucket of balls.

All goes well until I miss one ball, after I miss one ball I break down and lose form and I've figured out why.

With regular multi-ball (imagine forehand looping multi-ball) if I mess up a shot, I can think about what I did wrong and fix it for the next shot. But when the multi-ball drill is completely random, I'm thinking about what I did wrong with the shot that I could fix next time and another type of ball comes while I'm thinking about it.

In a game scenario, when I mess up a shot, I lose the point. Then I can have anywhere from 10-30 seconds to think about what I did wrong and I always use this time to think of what to do during the next point. I believe this is how I improve the most, is recognizing what I did wrong, whether it be misreading how much spin was on the ball or executing a shot wrong. Recognizing what I do wrong is the best way for me to fix the issue. If I don't see the problem then how can I improve?

So here's the questions. How can I turn off/retrain my brain during Random-Multi-Ball so I can keep going through the drill, or is this even something I should be doing? Maybe theres another better way to get better at random-multi-ball. Maybe I should tell my coach that when I miss a ball, give me a couple seconds to regroup?

NextLevel · Feb 11, 2016

Here are a couple of things you can try. The first one is related to an idea that I am trying to implement recently is to shadow the shot you would have taken even if the opponent misses the return. It doesn't apply here, but why not keep on playing until your coach stops, assuming that the umpire has not called for the point to end yet?

The second is to adopt a get the ball back on the table mindset no matter what ever happens. In this case, you just want to get the ball back. It doesn't matter how the point started but you just want to get the ball back. Thinking about how you missed or why you missed is not the issue - you just want to get the next ball back.

Other than making you read the stroke and the spin, I am not sure that random-multi-ball with different spins is truly valuable for practical play. But I guess it may have some value in limited quantity. What is usually more valuable is something that simulates critical patterns that you need to utilize in points. That said, your coach has done a good job with you so there is definitely something that she is seeing that is making her do this.

Shuki · Feb 11, 2016

NextLevel said:
Other than making you read the stroke and the spin, I am not sure that random-multi-ball with different spins is truly valuable for practical play. But I guess it may have some value in limited quantity. What is usually more valuable is something that simulates critical patterns that you need to utilize in points. That said, your coach has done a good job with you so there is definitely something that she is seeing that is making her do this.

I believe the reason we're doing this drill is to work on reacting to various balls, we definitely run more patterned multi-ball drills than random. Surely the reason for this drill is to work on reactions, I can't think of another reason.

Changing the way I look at the drill is going to be tough. I think it will be tougher than changing the muscle memory on a stroke.

NextLevel · Feb 11, 2016

Shuki said:
I believe the reason we're doing this drill is to work on reacting to various balls, we definitely run more patterned multi-ball drills than random. Surely the reason for this drill is to work on reactions, I can't think of another reason.

Changing the way I look at the drill is going to be tough. I think it will be tougher than changing the muscle memory on a stroke.

On those kinds of drills, the focus is usually on reading the ball and doing an appropriate stroke to get it back, not on doing a full stroke. I think you have to realize and accept that.

Shuki · Feb 11, 2016

NextLevel said:
On those kinds of drills, the focus is usually on reading the ball and doing an appropriate stroke to get it back, not on doing a full stroke. I think you have to realize and accept that.

Interesting, you're definitely right on that. When I start and I'm getting the balls on the table well, it's with short compact strokes. Once I start missing I'm also extending my stroke and trying to go through it more.

Just accepting that I'll have to change my way of thinking just for one drill is going to be tough, but you're right that it's what I'll have to do, at least if I can't think of another way of getting through it better.

Ilia Minkin · Feb 11, 2016

Shuki said:
problem then how can I improve?

So here's the questions. How can I turn off/retrain my brain during Random-Multi-Ball so I can keep going through the drill, or is this even something I should be doing? Maybe theres another better way to get better at random-multi-ball. Maybe I should tell my coach that when I miss a ball, give me a couple seconds to regroup?

I think that what you can do is just be patient and you will adapt with time -- that is the point of the drill.

UpSideDownCarl · Feb 11, 2016

Random multiball training:

Totally worth doing. It trains your response to random ball placement, random pace, spin, etc.

I would actually say you should not even be focused on your ball going on the table you should reset and get ready to try and read where the next ball goes. So you should stroke and before your ball lands on the table you should have turned your attention to the feeder to watch where he is putting the next ball.

The actual process would be stroke and be reset before your ball lands on the table and as you are reset you should be watching the feeder's racket angle for where the next ball is going.

Does your coach ever block for you and give random placement. That may be easier for you to start with because watching your ball land and the watching the angle and placement of the feeder's racket is the same thing.

But with multiball you always have to reset and then focus where the ball is being fed from. And even in a set multiball drill like a 2 or 3 point drill or a Faulkenberg, the placement is not exact nor should it be, so at higher levels you should be watching and adjusting to slight variations in placement.

When Damien Provost was in USA he worked a lot with people on random placement drills.

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

Shuki · Feb 11, 2016

UpSideDownCarl said:
Does your coach ever block for you and give random placement. That may be easier for you to start with because watching your ball land and the watching the angle and placement of the feeder's racket is the same thing.

Yea, we have done this a few times and it's gone well. Mostly because I can regroup after a failed ball, it's not just instant when theres another ball on me when we do this.

NextLevel · Feb 11, 2016

Download and play the TTEdge game - maybe that might help.

UpSideDownCarl · Feb 11, 2016

Try and make the focus on the reset and watching for the next ball. Try to keep going even if you mess up. That practice is worth it. It will actually help your technique to do this. Letting go of watching and controlling the stroke and trying to get that to be unconscious and automatic and focusing on increasing the reset speed and turning your attention the the feeder for placement of the next ball as soon as you can, ideally before your ball bounces in the other side, is probably what will help you the most with this drill. Reset-watch-move-stroke-reset-watch-move. The stroke is secondary in the drill. As you get better at the drill, it will improve the mechanics of your short stroke and fast reset and you will not have to focus on what went wrong on the ones you miss.

Also, sometimes you do enough right in the stroke and the ball still goes out. And sometimes you do a lot wrong and the ball still goes in. So, in this multiball drill, you are working on improving your reaction time vs random placement rather than being the drill being about something else like stroke mechanics.

Hopefully this helps you change the focus rather than thinking it will be hard to let go of trying to mentally correct the stroke on the missed balls. No matter what though, this is a hard drill that will help you improve and it is practiced at the highest levels.

Good luck.

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

NextLevel · Feb 11, 2016

Yearh - misinterpreting the role of missing in improving your game is what causes many adults to get frustrated during these drills.

Shuki · Feb 11, 2016

Very helpful comments, and I'm taking all this into consideration, thank you everybody.

Pnachtwey · Feb 12, 2016

Why not simply play out points? That way your return must take into account what the coach will do and any weak returns will be punished.

I get tired and lose mental focus two but I only need a few seconds to recover. The coach keeps the balls coming.

TT_Rogue · Feb 12, 2016

Dont worry when you miss shots in practice , if you would not miss it would not be a good training what has an effect for you. The sense is that your coach is putting you under a much higher than normal. You are adapting to that if you want or not

. What means that in game when you already can anticipate from your ball what is coming you will react much faster and take automaticly better decision. Just try to reach every ball. If you feel that your rythm is broken, stop the exercise for a moment and start from the beginning.

Matt Hetherington · Feb 12, 2016

It's multiball there is no time to think about the shot you have just missed. Much like in a match you need to take the time you have and move on to the next point, unfortunately in multiball you don't have time haha

Essentially you just need to constantly be focusing on the next ball and just try your best on each shot. Once you get to the end of a box of balls then you can reflect on how you performed and which shots need improving and how.

When I do multiball my main focus is on one ball at a time and getting to the end of the box with the least amount of errors as possible. The thing with multiball is even when it is random you get into a rhythm of playing a ball and recovering and being very focused. If you let anything distract your timing and throw you off rhythm then it can take you a while to try and get back into it, it's really a matter of maintaining incredibly sharp focus.

So anytime you miss and lose your focus just pause and restart or let a few balls go by you and get back into your ready position and start again, otherwise you kind of go into a blind panic

Hope that helps

Der_Echte · Feb 13, 2016

TT_Rogue said:
Dont worry when you miss shots in practice , if you would not miss it would not be a good training what has an effect for you. The sense is that your coach is putting you under a much higher than normal. You are adapting to that if you want or not . What means that in game when you already can anticipate from your ball what is coming you will react much faster and take automaticly better decision. Just try to reach every ball. If you feel that your rythm is broken, stop the exercise for a moment and start from the beginning.

I ilke TT Rogue Warrior's attitude, as well as NL and Matt's...

The top three things i would say...

Drink a beer or two or three... then go at it. You will not worry too much about the miss or hits, time plenty to analyze that later. Attitude is great thing, can help or hurt. Like Matt sez, no time to really think and IF you are TRYING to think, well, it just isn't gunna work. You cannot worry about how to place your foot here or how much to open bat angle, or this or that, you simply execute without conscious thinking. MAYBE when ball is coming and you want to send it somewhere else, you tell your self wait... wait... OK.

SLOW DOWN and loosen hand pressure and use a little less force on the shot. You will feel the ball better and overcome whatever spin much easier, you get the impact feel and impact timing down, while slowing it down a bit, then you will land it more and develop the kind of impact feel and timing you need, then later you can apply more force at combat speed and succeed. I always advise players who struggle vs a half-long dead serve to loosen up, us everything 1/2 (Power, Graze, Solid Impact) and go for spin and place it deep, then look for next ball to attack stronger.

Try to stay on balance, both before and after shot, try to impact ball within your effective zone, even if you have to wait for it a little longer.

Hamasaki_Fanz · Feb 13, 2016

Random multi-ball drills with my coach. This is when the coach will give you backspin, high balls, topspin balls, no spin, quick, slow, short, long just randomly from their bucket of balls.

Better change your coach, that kind of training is really bad and not useful because it's not applicable in real match.

Shuki · Feb 13, 2016

Hamasaki_Fanz said:
Better change your coach, that kind of training is really bad and not useful because it's not applicable in real match.

reading the other member's posts may help you too

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