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    1. Top | #1
      rahul is offline
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      Cool Tactics against an anti spin player

      Hi guys,
      Any one who knows to play against an anti spin player please give me some tactics. And is it true when we serve a fast no spin serve is it hard to take for the anti spin player???Looking for your advise..

    2. Top | #2
      Matt Hetherington is offline
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      No problems! I had 2 antispin players in my club growing up as a junior. There are multiple tactics you can use:

      -Base no spin tactics: If you don't give them any spin to work with they are not able to generate much of their own, so as you mentioned long no spin serves are more difficult for antispin players to do anything with. Also playing short float pushes can sometimes pop the ball up for an easy attack. This is one tactic which you can use or mix with others.

      -Control topspin: Another option is to use slow controlled topspin, an antispin player will chop all day long given the opportunity, this serves the purpose of wearing you down or forcing a mistake. As with many normal rubber tactics placement and consistency is important and spin variation! If you can make them move around and wear them down you will have an advantage, also aim for body then wings, try and force errors.

      -Depth tactic: This is based around footwork and works against many choppers and is a common tactic, when attacking against antispin chop, try and press them back from the table then play a push to draw them back in, this may force errors or cause them to pop the ball up. It just adds uncertainty really, antispin players like to build rhythm and large amounts of variation will really cause them problems.

      -Attack strong: The other tactic of course is to try and hit through them, this might involve spinning the first ball up and then trying to drive the second ball harder to a different place on the table. It is a harder tactic to achieve and can be frustrating to keep trying if you continue failing.

      All in all variation of placement and spin will be your biggest weapon against an antispin player, try and combine these tactics and see if it helps.

      Good luck and remember be patient and thoughtful when playing, frustration will only force more errors which is what the antispin player wants. Oh and remember backspin play is easier for them to attack so try to be careful when pushing.
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    4. Top | #3
      YosuaYosan is offline
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      I have an anti player friend.
      His anti (Yaska Anti-Power) is on the backhand side.
      Yes, sometimes a fast no spin serve (little topspin) will cause trouble, but against experienced anti player it won't help much.

      My main tactic against anti players is to send a fast medium-heavy underspin push to the anti side and loop kill the little topspin return.
      Placement also play an important role here.
      I think thats all
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    6. Top | #4
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      To keep up a consistent game, you gotta try the combination:
      Long dead serve
      CONTROLLED opening top-spin into his BH
      The ball will return with backspin, than you'll just push it
      Than again CONTROLLED top-spin into his BH

      Repeat it a few times until there is a chance of killing the ball.
      The point is: KEEP IT UP, be patient
      Your chances will come, for sure. In this tactic you will feel really comfortable, because you do not make a lot of mistakes and get into your rhythm quickly

      Another alternative:
      Fast top-spin serve into the ankles of the table (watch out: the ball will return with backspin)
      Hard attack into the FH

      (It's really risky, but works out for me )
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    7. Top | #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by PingPongPom View Post
      No problems! I had 2 antispin players in my club growing up as a junior. There are multiple tactics you can use:

      -Base no spin tactics: If you don't give them any spin to work with they are not able to generate much of their own, so as you mentioned long no spin serves are more difficult for antispin players to do anything with. Also playing short float pushes can sometimes pop the ball up for an easy attack. This is one tactic which you can use or mix with others.

      -Control topspin: Another option is to use slow controlled topspin, an antispin player will chop all day long given the opportunity, this serves the purpose of wearing you down or forcing a mistake. As with many normal rubber tactics placement and consistency is important and spin variation! If you can make them move around and wear them down you will have an advantage, also aim for body then wings, try and force errors.

      -Depth tactic: This is based around footwork and works against many choppers and is a common tactic, when attacking against antispin chop, try and press them back from the table then play a push to draw them back in, this may force errors or cause them to pop the ball up. It just adds uncertainty really, antispin players like to build rhythm and large amounts of variation will really cause them problems.

      -Attack strong: The other tactic of course is to try and hit through them, this might involve spinning the first ball up and then trying to drive the second ball harder to a different place on the table. It is a harder tactic to achieve and can be frustrating to keep trying if you continue failing.

      All in all variation of placement and spin will be your biggest weapon against an antispin player, try and combine these tactics and see if it helps.

      Good luck and remember be patient and thoughtful when playing, frustration will only force more errors which is what the antispin player wants. Oh and remember backspin play is easier for them to attack so try to be careful when pushing.
      wow sir matt nice post this will help me with one of my rivals

    8. Top | #6
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      All the advice above sounds pretty solid. The thing with anti-spin that is worth understanding is that, you need to practice against it enough to get used to what will come back and to get used to watching the which rubber your anti-spin opponent is using. A lot of good anti-spin players also flip (twiddle) their blade face. If you stop paying attention and they flip from one side to the other, you could miss seeing what spin is coming at you. As you get used to anti-spin, a nice way of thinking about it is this: if they use their anti-spin side, you are controlling the spin that will come at you. So the actual question is: how do you use this to your advantage.

      Well, if you like hitting against topspin, you should give underspin. If you like hitting or, really, looping, against underspin you should give topspin. If you want the ball to come back slow, server short and slow. If you want the ball to come back faster serve faster.

      Here are some things that I like to do.

      1) I like to keep the ball in play, being patient and waiting for a ball I can put away and end the point. To do this, you have to be comfortable letting the rally go longer while playing against an anti-spin player. That means you have to have played a decent amount against anti-spin. I like control looping, so that, the shots coming back to me from the anti-spin have a consistent amount of underspin. Then I just keep looping the underspin knowing that I will eventually get something I can really rip and end the point.

      2) I have realized, the way I play, I do not like facing short, low, heavy topspin, so I have no intention of giving short serves that have heavy underspin to an anti-spin player. But if someone gives me a short ball that is light underspin, I love attacking that. So, if I want light underspin, I give short light topspin serves that are disguised to look like underspin. Often that also means I can get my anti-spin opponent to give me something high and slow if I disguise the serve well.

      3) I might not like topspin that is short and low, but I love topspin that is long regardless of whether it is slow or fast. So: fast, long underspin serves are going to come back as topspin and if it is a good fast serve, it will be hard for your anti-spin opponent to keep those returns short and low. So that is another way of getting a good attack. However, you have to be careful with this, because, if you give a player who has anti-spin any underspin ball, when they hit it back it is a topspin, and they do not have to worry too much about hitting it into the net, so, a good anti-spin player will probably just attack that if they realize what it is. If it has a lot of underspin it could come back with heavy topspin (a loop). So you have to use the element of surprise with this one and have some long fast dead ball serves and long fast topspin serves that all look similar so they are not exactly sure what spin is coming at them. If you served it, you should know what spin you put on your serves so you should know what spin is coming to you.

      4) Fast dead serves might not give a good anti-spin player much trouble in terms of returning them. However, when a dead ball serve comes back off of anti-spin, it is not going to have much spin. If you know how to attack dead balls, this could give you an easy set up to attack and end the point.

      For me, once I am past the serve and receive part, and I am in the rally, I like using control loops and trying to keep my opponent using his anti-spin side. If I do that, the spin that is coming back to me is fairly consistent so eventually I will get something to attack and put away. The advantage when you play an anti-spin player is that, if they use their anti-spin side, you are determining the spin they put on the ball. You just have to hit with anti-spin players enough to get used to this. When you do, it is also worth experimenting with sidespin serves because you need to know what will come back at you if you use a sidespin serve. And just like when you hit topspin or underspin at anti-spin what comes back at you is counterintuitive. So if you have not seen it enough to get used to it, it could cause you some problems.

      When you hit topspin, what comes back is underspin. When you hit underspin what comes back is topspin. But when you hit sidespin at anti-spin, what comes back is THE SAME sidespin. So, if you do a regular pendulum serve, and you give side spin that causes the ball to curve towards the backhand of your opponent (right handed player), when the ball comes back, it will curve towards your backhand also (right handed player). If you are good at attacking serves that have a lot of sidespin without top or underspin, it can be a good tactic also as long as you have seen how much sidespin your serves are going to come back with, and as long as you have seen this enough times to be used to it, before you try this in a match. But the ball is going to curve on you if you have a lot of sidespin. An advantage to this, a sidespin ball that does not have almost any topspin or underspin is easy to attack provided you know how to deal with the sidespin that is coming at you. If you do not, stay away from heavy sidespin until you do.

      It is absolutely true that, if you mix up the spins and keep giving variations, you can get an anti-spin player to mess up. It is a good tactic. The reason I use this for serve and receive but not if my opponent gets past my third ball attack, is, I have found I am not good enough to deal with all those variations of spin that come back to me. So, sometimes I mess myself up before I get to mess my opponent up. So for me, I know, once I am deeper into the rally, if I can keep moving my opponent around and keep the spin that is coming back to me as consistent as possible, I will get balls to put away and end the point.
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 09-02-2011 at 01:03 PM. Reason: So much to say. :)
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    9. Top | #7
      Justchill is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by PingPongPom View Post
      No problems! I had 2 antispin players in my club growing up as a junior. There are multiple tactics you can use:

      -Base no spin tactics: If you don't give them any spin to work with they are not able to generate much of their own, so as you mentioned long no spin serves are more difficult for antispin players to do anything with. Also playing short float pushes can sometimes pop the ball up for an easy attack. This is one tactic which you can use or mix with others.

      -Control topspin: Another option is to use slow controlled topspin, an antispin player will chop all day long given the opportunity, this serves the purpose of wearing you down or forcing a mistake. As with many normal rubber tactics placement and consistency is important and spin variation! If you can make them move around and wear them down you will have an advantage, also aim for body then wings, try and force errors.

      -Depth tactic: This is based around footwork and works against many choppers and is a common tactic, when attacking against antispin chop, try and press them back from the table then play a push to draw them back in, this may force errors or cause them to pop the ball up. It just adds uncertainty really, antispin players like to build rhythm and large amounts of variation will really cause them problems.

      -Attack strong: The other tactic of course is to try and hit through them, this might involve spinning the first ball up and then trying to drive the second ball harder to a different place on the table. It is a harder tactic to achieve and can be frustrating to keep trying if you continue failing.

      All in all variation of placement and spin will be your biggest weapon against an antispin player, try and combine these tactics and see if it helps.

      Good luck and remember be patient and thoughtful when playing, frustration will only force more errors which is what the antispin player wants. Oh and remember backspin play is easier for them to attack so try to be careful when pushing.
      Don't stick to just one tactic, do all this together. And the most important thing.... be very very patient

    10. Top | #8
      WiWa is offline
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      When I play against players with pips or anti spin, I try to keep the rallies short and simple. Serve fast long serves into the weird rubber and attack agressively after that. Usually they can't really launch a proper attack from a no-spin ball, so thats a good start of the rally. Play short and they will send you all around the centre-court though. Consider it a looping practise :P

    11. Top | #9
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      Thanks for all of your advise. Gonna try it

    12. Top | #10
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      stay close to the table and play aggresive. take the ball at the peak. very important is to be patient and let the ball bounce and come to you.

    13. Top | #11
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      Hi Rahul, Carl was right when he mentioned about twiddling.. Experience players do a lot of twiddling, so be on your toes all the time. And since I used anti when I started playing in the 80's, I would also like to highlight that they also love to flick the short balls, especially the ones about net high of higher. So, as Wiwa and Moriguchi said, attack whenever you can...and just lift the ball if you think it's coming back with a heavy backspin, and start again. Good luck buddy.
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    15. Top | #12
      moriguchi2 is offline
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      and if u get a person who gets in push rallies with the anti, u have to put ur own back sping cus they give you dead

    16. Top | #13
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      As I understand it anti spin rubbers typically don't reverse spin they simply cancel or lower the amount producing varying dead balls. I have some students of Danny Seemiller at my local clubs and they always explain it as the ball simply being caught and lowering the angle of the shot. Producing dead balls to them can force a lot of errors when they use the anti because the ball won't have any momentum to rebound across the net.

      I'm not too sure about what anti does, but I just attack their backhands and then drop short. I haven't really met many anti players that were "high" level players. My thoughts are that you really have to understand your own game when playing deceptive players. If you know what you give to your opponent then you can calculate the likelihood that they will return with the opposite (LP), similar (inverted), or dead (anti/sp).

    17. Top | #14
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      It is worth understanding how Anti-Spin and Long Pips work. There are great articles on About.com on how they work, how to use them and how to play against them.

      Here is a link to one of them: http://tabletennis.about.com/od/anti...gainstanti.htm

      From that one you can find links to all the rest. They are written by Greg Letts and they are high quality information.

      Here is the simplest of information. These rubbers do not change the spin so much. You could think of them as supper dead rubbers. They have almost no grip, almost no friction.

      If you took a ball and hit it against a wall or against a verticle surface that is smooth like the surface of a Ping Pong Table, when the ball comes back it will have the same spin you put on it but it will be going in the opposite direction so it will seem as though the spin has been reversed. Here is an example. If I hit underspin at that vertical surface when the ball comes back it would be topspin. If I hit topspin it will come back as underspin. The more spin I put on the ball, the more spin comes back. But the ball coming back will have a little less spin than what I put on the ball because the contact with that vertical surface will slow the spin down a little and so will the fact that the ball has been in flight.

      The direction of the spin has not changed, the direction of the ball is what has changed. Say you take a ball and you have that ball moving from point A to point B and it has topspin: Now if you do not change the spin, but have that same ball change directions so that now it is going from point B to point A because the ball is rotating in the same direction as it was, but it is now moving in the opposite direction, that spin would now be underspin.

      There are many different versions of Anti Spin. Some have a little more friction. Some have a little less. Some Anti Spin rubbers slow the spin down considerably. Some almost completely stop the spin. Some have very little friction and only slow the spin down a little. So different types of Anti Spin rubber have different effects. Then there is the sponge. With the sponge, how you contact the ball could cause the ball's spin to change less with lighter contact, or more when you get the ball to sink more deeply into the sponge with heavier contact. So if you were using Anti Spin, and a person gave you heavy underspin you could give them back medium topspin, light topspin or dead depending on how you contact the ball. But, if they gave you heavy underspin you would not really be able to give them back heavy underspin with the Anti Spin side of your racket. The best you could do is slow their spin down.

      Creating these variations in spin does take technique and skill.

      Long Pips are more complicated. The name Long Pips is sort of inaccurate. What it means is that the pimples are longer than they are wide. With Long Pips you have much more of an ability to vary the spin on the ball. The reason is that those long thin pimples can bend; and to top it off, you can use them without sponge or with any thickness of sponge you choose.

      So the surface of the pimples is similar to the surface of an Anti Spin rubber, except it is pimples not smooth. If you make lighter touch contact so the ball only touches the tops of the pips, what you get is very similar to what you get from Anti Spin. However, if you make heavier contact, the pips bend and then to ball contacts the sides of the pimples. The sides of the pimples have friction and can grip the ball. When you do this, the pimples unbend while the ball is still in contact with them and this can increase the spin that you are putting on the ball if you are going with the spin that came at you. In other words when you are using Long Pips and someone gives you a heavy loop, you can chop heavy and give the opponent back their spin and some more of your own making it an extremely heavy chop. A good Long Pips player can take any topspin shot you give them and make it:

      1) dead,
      2) light underspin,
      3) about the same amount of spin you gave them coming back as underspin or
      4) make the underspin even heavier.

      To do this takes a lot of good technique and skill in using the Long Pips because it is subtle stuff that has to do with your stroke, the quality of your stroke, and how you contact the ball.

      For the smooth rubber player, you have to watch every detail to distinguish between the dead balls, the mild underspin and the heavier underspin. For the Anti Spin or Long Pips player it takes a lot of skill in making it hard for his opponent to see what spin he is giving back. This is called deception and it is not that different from what every smooth player strives to do in keeping his opponent from seeing what spin he is placing on his serves.

      So knowing how these rubbers actually work and the different ways in which different players use them is quite valuable when you are trying to improve your skills as a smooth rubber player. And just as there are many different Long Pips and Anti Spin rubbers that all have slightly different playing characteristics, every Long Pips and Anti Spin player I have played against has a different playing style and uses their equipment differently.
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 10-25-2011 at 04:21 PM.

    18. Top | #15
      Knuckle Ball is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by YosuaYosan View Post

      Yes, sometimes a fast no spin serve (little topspin) will cause trouble, but against experienced anti player it won't help much.

      My main tactic against anti players is to send a fast medium-heavy underspin push to the anti side and loop kill the little topspin return.
      Placement also play an important role here.
      I think thats all
      For someone from the Dark Side I'll contribute a little based on how I play.

      You got it right Yosan! A fast serve to the anti side can pose problems, but once I know or anticipate this I usually twiddle and loop it BH with my conventional rubber. I can also also give it a controlled smack to the opponent's far FH side.

      Yosan your main tactic against anti is the kind that usually defeats me. An underspin serve returned by a push of my anti rubber comes back as a weak topspin. Very easy to spin loop kill. That is for players who know how my anti behaves. Others would usually try to push it anticipating an underspin, ball pops up, I do the kill.

      Here are some of my tactics, how I win points with my anti:

      I serve underspin, opponent pushes back underspin, I twiddle and push with my anti. Opponent anticipates an underspin, not expecting spin reversal, ball pops up, I kill.

      I alternate using anti and conventional side and wait for opponent to make a mistake, a loop snagging the net or going long, a push that pops up or goes long.

      When an opponent starts looping I block with my anti, spin reversal and the next loop becomes harder to nail as it needs more spin to lift. Second loop usually hits the net. I can also twiddle and give different spin returns to my blocks against the opponents loops.

      In serving, I toss high and often twiddle or double twiddle to confuse my opponent which side I used, and what spin to expect. (Can also backfire and I end up losing the serve on a twiddle-fumble ha ha)

      I notice that the more my opponents play me, the more they understand how my anti behaves, the more games I start to lose. ha ha ha

      Deception is the name of my game. That's how I use my anti, perhaps you can get something from it and improve your games against Dark Siders. (my BH Sriver Killer and Super Anti)

    19. Top | #16
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      As a "weird rubber" player, my views may be a bit different as im a chopper and the only time i play anti is our other chopper. Basically, i chop till he misses then attack when he is nervous. He's 2 wing chop but has a decent fh loop. I attack his anti with control topspins for 2 or so balls, then push or do a stronger topspin w/more speed. he often misses those. also you must also attack the forehand to force him to change it up a little. if he twiddles and pushes w/normal then try and get him to push w/ the anti.
      Hope this helps!
      also, i find this particular chopper struggles with a "Ding Ning" style bh tomahawk serve - he just plonks it in the net because of the very heavy backspin-sidespin. watch He Zhi Wen play a chopper to see the master of "controlled topspin"...

    20. Top | #17
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      As a pimples player I think I have to react on the post.

      First if you play short pimples that's a whole other game. Playing without spin long and hard is not smart. But this deserves a new topic because short pimples is a different discipline.

      Now anti is easy.why? Because you're opponent can't do a lot of different things. First is the opponent only defending, just keep semi slow playing the ball with a little curv on the back of the table. Wait for a semi short ball and kill. Make sure to kill, because now you have put speed in the ball and you're now in his world.

      It gets harder if you're opponent attacks more and is deadly. For example til from Korea. If you put back the ball on the back of the table with a arc he will use his hammer and destroy you. So don't give the chance. How? Put more speed in the ball, but not to much and certainly not allot spin. And keep your opponent moving. Start in the back of the table and during the rally you may choose to put it short. If you keep the ball in the back in my opinion you get easier opportunities to kill.

      I hope someone recognizes these tips and it will help you to play great matches against darksiders.

    21. Top | #18
      teen291 is offline
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      I could not grab lots of tips from your sharing. However, do recognize attack to kill at short ball. Thanks


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    22. Top | #19
      Lightzy is offline
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      I was asked this today by one of the beginner level players in the club..

      So, I'm sorry for being judgemental, I have a lot of respect for the pros commenting here, but from my experience many tips given here are useless for the players that actually need those tips.
      There is a reason it's AMATEUR leagues are that are often dominated by pimple/anti players, and you need to help THESE guys. Nobody that can accurately vary their spin/hit ratio is asking these questions. It's the amateurs getting wrecked by shit they don't understand.

      For example one tip is to do a 'baloon' topspin and then another one except this time against the super-heavy backspin they receive etc. What point is there in telling a beginner this?

      There are also many suggestions to use no-spin long shots and serves, but this is also not good, because the anti-spin will return slight backspin to those shots too and sometimes short too if it's a dampening sponge, which is very awkward and difficult if you don't know wtf is going on. The most common mistake for beginners against antispin is driving the ball into the net, and these kinda tips will help them do that more.




      So here are some tips that I think will help you if you're an actual beginner and are struggling:

      1) Try using a short serve. Little underspin or no spin is good. As weak and short as you can get it. These are difficult to return properly with the anti-spin because you have to get under the ball, where the effect of the anti-spin works against the player trying to return the short serve. They can never give you a quality return with the anti-spin, but since they are also beginners they will usually use the antispin to answer all serves if possible.
      This can cause them a lot of serve return errors and high/easy balls, or at least cause them to use the forehand, in which case you're avoided the anti-spin confusion.

      2) AVOID! Just play everything to the forehand. Serves too.
      In beginner levels, anti players tend to grow extremely dependent on their anti to return serves and difficult shots. So much so that more often than not they'll move to the forehand side of the table just to use the anti.
      This doesn't mean you win the point, but you certainly have greater chances of winning if the player is no longer covering the backhand side of the table effectively.

      Also, anti players tend to have very bizzare forehand shots. I dunno why this is, just an observation from years at the club. Not necessarily a bad shot. It's often incredibly spinny because they tend to use very soft blades, but still. More prone to error, which may probably increase your chances of getting a point.

      3) Your topspins and also your non topspin, including your no-spin serves; whatever you do except for pushes, there's gonna be some degree of backspin on the ball you get back, because even your basic drives have a bit of topspin on them, including topspin generated by friction when the ball hits the table, and the anti-spin rubber will reverse that.

      So simply remember that most of your shots are going to be returned with backspin.
      So don't drive any ball you get back from the anti-spin rubber. Or at least not until you're sure you can read the ball properly and know there's no spin on it.

      4) Long pushes to the backhand are very difficult for amateur players with antispin. With fast shots they can generally just put the racket there and absorb the ball with their speed-dampening effect and you'll be left with a ball that's very difficult for you to return (possibly a fast underspin ball etc). But with pushes it is more difficult for the antispin players to read the actual speed on the ball, so they will make more mistakes trying to return that.

      5) Wait longer before hitting the ball, if possible.
      This is in general is a good idea, but especially against anti-spin. The spin on their return is often greatly diminished since it's just your spin back, and air resistance and table friction saps away much of the spin by the time the ball gets back to you.
      So the more you wait, the less spin there will be on the ball.
      If all your drives are going into the net, you can either 'never drive the ball', or try waiting a bit longer. The spin may dissipate completely in many cases (if there wasn't a lot of spin in your shot that was returned by the anti).


      Uhm.

      So...
      There ya go.
      Dude from 2011. And dude from my club.
      Last edited by Lightzy; 12-28-2018 at 12:10 AM.

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    24. Top | #20
      Takkyu_wa_inochi is offline
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      People gave good tactics above, which was answers to OP's question.

      I want to add my own grain of salt.

      Don't be afraid of antispin players. At the same ranking they are probably weaker technically than a BS player. They have an advantage because many players are not used to playing them and make mistake / have difficult to adapt, and/or develop a psychological fear of these players. Practising a lot again these players is the best antidote.

      I think if you understand that the incoming ball from antispin, just like its name says, has less spin and speed than a normal ball, and that to counter that, then you will realize you should adjust your timing and stroke correctly and if you manage to do that, if you are a playing who likes to take initiative, you can nearly develop your usual game.

      Because the ball is often slower, you have to be more patient and not rush to the ball. Profit from the extra 1/10th of second to get your feet in better position, often you have to wait more and take the ball lower than usual so make an extra effort to lower your body. The alternative is to time the ball at the top (just before) of the bounce with a more closed angle but you have to get the right tempo and a good footwork.

      Also, play all the balls with less pace and speed, and try to always put light topspin on all balls, it will make the ball much more difficult for your opponent. If you hit a ball too hard or without spin, its much more difficult to control.

      Avoid pushing short twice in a row. if you push once, the incoming ball will be probably no spin or slight upspin. so topspin it, or - at worse- push it long. if it pops AND you played it short its a penalty for your opponent.
      so a pattern alternating (short) underspin / topspin etc... is useful if you master it, and just wait for the easy ball to kill.

      i also avoid serving short to the pips / antispin.

      When i play pips or antispin players, my main mistake is to put too much power when i'm late on a long push on my BH. be careful of those balls not staying too close to the table and play those balls with soft topspin, never put power on such balls.

      Good luck and please tell how it goes

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