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  1. maurice101 is offline
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    #1

    More power needed in my forehand

    I have been modifying my forehand stroke to finish at the right eye, straighten the arm a bit on the backswing and to relax the wrist at the beginning of the forward swing and to not to have the index finger go up the bat.

    I seem to be getting good spin (for me) but I feel I am lacking power as my shots are blocked back too easily.

    Any suggestions??

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    #2
    What is your equipment set up?
    Meanwhile, you can practice forehand using little heavy dumbells (like 3lbs/2kgs) to give your arm and muscle a little more strength. My couch had a racket made from metal (really heavy) and he made me practice with it.

    Hope this helps

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    #3
    I don't think it's a matter of physical strength.

    I'm not even an intermediate player, so bear in mind who it's coming from when I say it, but:

    One thing I can see is that you're lifting your shoulders somewhat. I don't believe that is very good for your neck, or for your power. I have a hunch that your grip might be too tight, as well. You seem to be keeping your wrist cocked forward before impact, as well.

    Can you film yourself doing some self-hitting with just the forearm? Stand at the side of the table, drop the ball and then just hit it with your forearm, like so:



    It will help the better players here give you advice.

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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by maurice101
    I have been modifying my forehand stroke to finish at the right eye, straighten the arm a bit on the backswing and to relax the wrist at the beginning of the forward swing and to not to have the index finger go up the bat.

    I seem to be getting good spin (for me) but I feel I am lacking power as my shots are blocked back too easily.

    Any suggestions??

    Being able to play multiple forehands against block is part of the game. IF you need more power, you need to look at ways of generating faster racket head speed. Maybe using your wrist more aggressively as part of a whip motion might help as well as generating faster motion in the core using the lower body. That said, your shot looks respectable and I would just accept it and get better at placing the ball in matches.

    The other thing is that if your rubber is modern, you are brushing a bit too much. Modern equipment spins the ball almost automatically so you can open your paddle a little more and hit the ball harder for both speed and spin.

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    Last edited by NextLevel; 07-31-2017 at 09:37 AM.
    Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

    "We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

  5. Tinykin is offline
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    #5
    Could not have put it better.
    OP, notice how even the top boys' best shots get repeatedly blocked. It's all part of the modern game.
    From a technique pov, the important thing is to keep your form in a rally. At this level, one tactic is to simply repeat the shot over and over. I doubt whether your opponents will consistently block 3 shots in a row. If they do, then start thinking about moving him around the table or varying the spin. In your short video you varied the spin a couple of times. Keep practising that technique.

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  6. maurice101 is offline
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    #6
    Equipment is home modified bent handle butterfly spirit with karis m on the forehand. My coach mentioned my lifting the shoulders in my old stroke so well spotted. I have a restricted wrist movement from a skiing injury that restricts my wrist movement somewhat. I agree I should use more wrist and it is why I use a bent handle bat . I had thought of using a more open racket angle yesterday so thanks for confirming this. I will try to post shadow play of a faster arm speed from a faster core rotation tomorrow. My robot is inconsistent so that lead to varying the spin!!! Thanks for the tips.
    Last edited by maurice101; 07-31-2017 at 10:55 AM.

  7. NextLevel is offline
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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by maurice101
    Equipment is home modified bent handle butterfly spirit with karis m on the forehand. My coach mentioned my lifting the shoulders in my old stroke so well spotted. I have a restricted wrist movement from a skiing injury that restricts my wrist movement somewhat. I agree I should use more wrist and it is why I use a bent handle bat . I had thought of using a more open racket angle yesterday so thanks for confirming this. I will try to post shadow play of a faster arm speed from a faster core rotation tomorrow. My robot is inconsistent so that lead to varying the spin!!! Thanks for the tips.
    If spin is the dominant thing you are looking for, use another rubber. Karis M is more for consistent countering and control and with decent spin.
    Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

    "We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

  8. maurice101 is offline
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    #8
    Hi Nextlevel,

    What difference would there be comparing karis m to andro R47 in terms of spin and power. I do like the control of karis m though.

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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by maurice101
    Hi Nextlevel,

    What difference would there be comparing karis m to andro R47 in terms of spin and power. I do like the control of karis m though.
    Try it and experience it yourself. It's honestly the kind of question that is best answered by personal experience. But just about any spinny rubber will suffice.

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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by maurice101
    I have been modifying my forehand stroke to finish at the right eye, straighten the arm a bit on the backswing and to relax the wrist at the beginning of the forward swing and to not to have the index finger go up the bat.

    I seem to be getting good spin (for me) but I feel I am lacking power as my shots are blocked back too easily.

    Any suggestions??

    I reckon you need to squat down a bit more. If you don't squat down enough your body can not do a full rrotation. also I can see you are not using enough power of your legs. That's why you draw your arm way way back.

    By squatting down you can rotate your body more. Then using the power of your legs and body you can spring forward and loop the ball. Check out Ma long's video.

    Pay attention to how low he squats down and the movement of his thighs.




    Passionate about TT

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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel
    Being able to play multiple forehands against block is part of the game. IF you need more power, you need to look at ways of generating faster racket head speed. Maybe using your wrist more aggressively as part of a whip motion might help as well as generating faster motion in the core using the lower body. That said, your shot looks respectable and I would just accept it and get better at placing the ball in matches.

    The other thing is that if your rubber is modern, you are brushing a bit too much. Modern equipment spins the ball almost automatically so you can open your paddle a little more and hit the ball harder for both speed and spin.
    Exactly what I have thought as well after watching your video sequence.
    Your motion in general looks a bit slow and you could hit the ball harder. BUT these topspins look quite good already.

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    #12
    maurice101 thank you for sharing the training clip.
    First of your stroke looks good and i wouldnt change equipment.
    May i ask why you want to straighten your arm ? a more closed arm is fine on the backswing.

    while your movement overall looks good it seems to be a little out of sync. it looks like you use up alot of energy with your stroke. you may stiffen up your body too early so you lose power.
    is your forearm relaxed when swinging? you arm looks a little bit stiff while accelerating.
    if you keep your ellbow a little closer to your body you can rotate and snap faster into the ball.
    also you seem to backswing pretty late and a little bit to excessive. which could screw the contact point in a match by taking the ball to late.
    if you take such a long stroke you need a lot of hip and arm acceleration to generate needed energie. you want you hip to rotate and swing your arm with your hip. it looks like you move your hip but you dont generate power from it. your swing is coming from the upper body not in sync with the hip.

    - loosen up the upper body (dont grip you blade to tight if you do)
    - move your elbow closer to the body work more with the legs
    - use your hip to lead the arm and upper body
    - accelerate and snap faster with arm and forearm.




    in this video you can see how the stroke is pretty short but because of the arm closer to the hip, the hip leading the movement and a shorter faster acceleration the power is still there. the upper and lower body are in sync.


    i hope you you understand what i mean and i could help a little. keep up the work !

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    #13
    I’m no professional or anything, but the first thing I noticed was how you used your arm more than your body and legs to produce the power from the ball. Power comes from the rotation of the body and position of the legs,not from how fast you move your arm. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think you should work on moving into position for every ball that comes, and use your body as the axis of rotation to produce that power you need.

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    #14
    In addition, I found a YouTube video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gbnFZWDZ1vU

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  15. UpSideDownCarl is offline
    says I like to hit Heavy Topspin
     
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    #15
    I have not read all the comments yet. But there is something I see that could help you. Someone else may have said this. I will find out when I go back to read through.

    The first thing I will say is, you are on the right track. If you just keep practicing looping, the mechanics that will help the power will come. You are getting decent spin and things are good enough that, without any changes and with enough practice, things will straighten themselves out.

    I did see someone ask why you were trying to get your arm straighter. This is a good question. Your form is decent enough that while you are actually practicing looping you should focus on looping and your ball quality. Not things like arm position.

    I saw someone else mention that the timing of body and arm are a little off. It is a good point. It will correct itself over time through practice.

    But what I actually think you need to do is watch your left arm. It holds the key. It holds the key to why and how your shoulder raises and also where you are losing power.

    Your left arm goes out and down. This shifts your hips and torso from rotation into lateral flexion.

    You start turning and shift into shifting your upper body towards the left. I have heard this called "teapoting" where instead of rotating forward the player leans towards the side.

    I have seen many high level players do this once in a while. But the basic stroke they have wired into muscle memory is based on rotation of hips and torso. Not lateral flexion. So that sideways movement, for them, may come out once every so often. Whereas, you are working that sideways movement as the primary stroke. And that will limit your power.

    The left arm and the lateral displacement are inextricably connected. And as long as that is the primary stroke, your motion is up and to the side rather than rotating forward as the racket goes up.

    The way I would work to change that is with SHADOW STROKES in front of a mirror so you can see your form.

    Don't focus on it when you are looping. Just practice it in shadow strokes for a while and then over time, see if you can spend a little time trying to get it into your looping for a few minutes at a time.

    If you do the rotation instead of the side motion, your left arm should follow your left shoulder and rotate and your left arm should stay up. It should not drop.

    I will see if I can make a shadow stroke video some time later to show an exaggeration of what you are doing. And an example of what would add power with less effort.


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  16. maurice101 is offline
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    #16
    Wow, lots of good points. Much thanks for all the posters and lots to think about and practice. The left arm advice is very insightful and something that could be easy to add to the stroke. Why is staying low such hard work. Sigh!

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    #17
    My first attempts to keep my left arm level in the rotation, keep lower in my stance, and use more power from my legs.
    I see I am finishing more to the left but the rotation feels and seems better? Still not relaxed.

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    #18
    Knowing that you have a wrist injury, I can't give you advice for your right arm. My point about the wrist can be just ignored, because I assumed your wrist is fine. Someone who knows better can talk about that.

    However what I DO see is that you're LIFTING your left arm and keeping it there with your muscles. Completely relax your arm and just bend it by your stomach, and see what it does to your stroke.

    I saw from some other videos that your ready position is a position with your racket in the middle of your centerline, and both of your arms up and grasping the racket. I think this left arm issue has something to do with that habit.

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    #19
    I see the rotation is a lot better, but the left arm, as many people have been saying, is too high and stiff. Use it as a guide and for balance, not another playing hand. That hand should be at around belly-button/abdomen level. Your shoulders are a bit stiff, and I think you’re a bit too square on the table. You should try to make sudden adjustments to every ball that comes. Also, unless it makes you uncomfortable, you should wear shoes since they provide that support when making those adjustments. I don’t know if it’s just me, but I can’t stand playing table tennis with sandles on. My feet keep sliding!

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  20. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Clu37
    Also, unless it makes you uncomfortable, you should wear shoes since they provide that support when making those adjustments. I don’t know if it’s just me, but I can’t stand playing table tennis with sandles on. My feet keep sliding!
    I was going to be a clown and make a joke about the foot gear. But, since it is already well spotted, I will just strengthen the statement.

    The footwear is actually messing with your leg and hip movement.

    However, I will say, the change you made is not so easy. You are now rotating. That is the important point. When I get a chance I will try and make the shadow video that shows how you should practice shadow strokes to help what you do on your robot.

    For now, the info about being more relaxed is paramount. Focus on that first.


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