Qatar Open 2018

zeio · Mar 11, 2018

All in all, Calderano did a better job here than he did at the Hungarian Open, even if he didn't take a game this time. He found a way to disrupt the rhythm of Chinese players, and a game plan that would make them uncomfortable. That's something gained better than even taking a game.

zeio · Mar 11, 2018

NextLevel said:
And this is also Fan's weakness as well. He just chiquitas those ball too or short pushes them when it feels awkward. He has worked a lot on his forehand flick but rarely ever uses it.

Ever since the chiquita took over the scene, the forehand flick has been unduly overlooked. I think in 2011, Cai Zhenhua bashed the CNT for that, pointing out ZJK was bad at it. XX didn't even know how to flick before WJP him under his wing. ML was and is still the only one who is good at it from his own generation.

On the JNT, Harimoto and Hirano are pretty damn good at it. Drinkhall is pretty good, too.

To fill in those curious souls, here is the exchange b/w Cai Zhenhua and Wu Jingping.

rainneverever · Mar 11, 2018

According to LGL at 2018 WTC commentary, Paul Drinkhall used to have a Chinese coach and that's why his style is not a typical European style.

ML was through the era of WLQ/M Lin/WH and once upon a time, he was more like M Lin, a traditional penholder, relying on FH only (of course that is not good. A balance between FH/BH makes him complete). CNT FH style employs the strength of the whole body (edit: even FH flick is not only a wrist thing), which is naturally more powerful than BH but difficult to improve, especially in the era of banana flip as people like shortcuts.

zeio said:
Ever since the chiquita took over the scene, the forehand flick has been unduly overlooked. I think in 2011, Cai Zhenhua bashed the CNT for that, pointing out ZJK was bad at it. XX didn't even know how to flick before WJP him under his wing. ML was and is still the only one who is good at it from his own generation.

On the JNT, Harimoto and Hirano are pretty damn good at it. Drinkhall is pretty good, too.

To fill in those curious souls, here is the exchange b/w Cai Zhenhua and Wu Jingping.

Mytoman · Mar 11, 2018

The coach must be LiuJiayi

talbon · Mar 11, 2018

rainneverever said:
long litany about ML's pedigree

Nice trivia, thanks for your hard work captain. Will sure come in handy next time I fly to China to play board games.

This is completely irrelevant to the post you quoted though.

And grats to Ma Long about his WTTC bronze medals, I'm sure he must have felt really good about those back then. True highlight of his career, good we've got a fan like you to shed the better light on this for us

+1

rainneverever · Mar 11, 2018

I just feel pity for LGY, who did not stand out in junior world and has not stood out in senior world. Why not compare him with someone else, say YA (2009 WJTTC silver, 2013 WTTC QF, some ITTF world tour winners, yet no world team champion), to give you more confidence in LGY's future?

talbon said:
Nice trivia, thanks for your hard work captain. Will sure come in handy next time I fly to China to play board games.

This is completely irrelevant to the post you quoted though.

And grats to Ma Long about his WTTC bronze medals, I'm sure he must have felt really good about those back then. True highlight of his career, good we've got a fan like you to shed the better light on this for us +1

talbon · Mar 11, 2018

rainneverever said:
I just feel pity for LGY, who did not stand out in junior world and has not stood out in senior world. Why not compare him with someone else, say YA (2009 WJTTC silver, 2013 WTTC QF, some ITTF world tour winners, yet no world team champion), to give you more confidence in LGY's future?

I couldn't care less about LGY's future, beyond the simple fact that I wish the best to other human beings in general.

Let's not get side-tracked into that pointless discussion. It doesn't matter as, all said and done, I agree with ping fun and you that Zhang Jike is the better player anyway.

rainneverever · Mar 11, 2018

Well, who never met ML in WTTC. I understand, WH is ZJK's blade that he used to beat ML

talbon said:
I couldn't care less about LGY's future, beyond the simple fact that I wish the best to other human beings in general.

Let's not get side-tracked into that pointless discussion. It doesn't matter as, all said and done, I agree with ping fun and you that Zhang Jike is the better player anyway.

Sali · Mar 11, 2018

rainneverever said:
I just feel pity for LGY, who did not stand out in junior world and has not stood out in senior world. Why not compare him with someone else, say YA (2009 WJTTC silver, 2013 WTTC QF, some ITTF world tour winners, yet no world team champion), to give you more confidence in LGY's future?

I think most of people still expect someone with talent like FZD ML or ZJK is going to show up. There is nobody like them. Of course LGY LJK FB are great players and should be top 10 in the world but not top 5 and definitely not 99% probability to win against foreigners. Calderano is catching up, Harimoto as well, maybe Darko Jorgic (he is a great talent not long ago he beat LJK). Besides FZD who is still very young ML and XX are going to retire sooner or later and there is no one that quality behind.
So if those two are going to retire lets say in 2-3 years we will have FZD world no 1 and the 2-3 other chinese world no 4, 7, 9 - that does not make them 99% sure to win team competition and silver in olympics and what is more important it does not guarantee all chinese finals in world championships or olympics.

talbon · Mar 11, 2018

rainneverever said:
Well, who never met ML in WTTC. I understand, WH is ZJK's blade that he used to beat ML

ML peaked after ZJK, but that's ok. It's hard to judge a player's potential, and you can't always do so based on how early or how fast they accomplish this or that. So ML might even top ZJK one day.

Then of course there'll still be Waldner as the greatest of all time. This guy was already the one true legend of table tennis while the others were still wearing diapers. Can't peak earlier than that.

rainneverever · Mar 11, 2018

That's why CTTA came up with a U21 policy this year, to give U21 players more chance to play international tournament, and give them spot in team lineup, a free world team champion.
ML, XX are getting old, so are the major rivals of CNT, VS, Timo, CCY, Dima, JM, LSS, etc. They won't be the major contenders of 2024 OG. So the current task of CNT is simply to train 2 relatively young players to get at least 1 score in the team event facing Japan, Korea, Germany, etc; and FZD can take care of 2 scores. All Chinese final is not that important as long as the champion is Chinese.

Sali said:
I think most of people still expect someone with talent like FZD ML or ZJK is going to show up. There is nobody like them. Of course LGY LJK FB are great players and should be top 10 in the world but not top 5 and definitely not 99% probability to win against foreigners. Calderano is catching up, Harimoto as well, maybe Darko Jorgic (he is a great talent not long ago he beat LJK). Besides FZD who is still very young ML and XX are going to retire sooner or later and there is no one that quality behind.
So if those two are going to retire lets say in 2-3 years we will have FZD world no 1 and the 2-3 other chinese world no 4, 7, 9 - that does not make them 99% sure to win team competition and silver in olympics and what is more important it does not guarantee all chinese finals in world championships or olympics.

rainneverever · Mar 11, 2018

My point is simple: LGY, currently 23, should not be compared to young ML or ZJK. Because they were way much better than LGY at the same age, and showed better talents before that age. YA, FB are the likes that LGY should compare with.

What do you mean by peak? Winning Grand Slam? LGL actually is the youngest Grand Slam winner. JO Waldner is considered GOAT of TT, or the best candidate, not because he first got Grand Slam. ZJK got Grand Slam earlier than ML, but you said it does not matter

I guess other than hardcore ZJK fans, no one thinks ML does not top ZJK. Look at the titles they've got. And look at their H2H, not between them and WH. I still don't get why WH is a standard when talking about ML vs ZJK; like Timo beat ML several times, Dima beat Timo several times, but Dima never beat ML. Timo is not the standard to measure ML vs Dima.

talbon said:
ML peaked after ZJK, but that's ok. It's hard to judge a player's potential, and you can't always do so based on how early or how fast they accomplish this or that. So ML might even top ZJK one day.

Then of course there'll still be Waldner as the greatest of all time. This guy was already the one true legend of table tennis while the others were still wearing diapers. Can't peak earlier than that.

talbon · Mar 11, 2018

LGY, currently 23, is clearly better than the 23 y.-o. ML.

ML, currently 29(?), is clearly better than LGY.

LGY tends to choke. ML was good at choking too. So was Hao Shuai. Leave it to time and LGY to figure out what he can or cannot achieve.

Other than hardcore ML and ZJK fans, nobody gives a f*ck about who tops the other one. I think the rest of us just enjoyed watching two awesome players.

You're good at collecting stats but your facts tend to go pseudo-factual when ML is involved. Anyway, bye bye.

rainneverever · Mar 11, 2018

LGY, currently 23, is clearly better than the 23 y.-o. ML. － by talbon

Best joke of the day

rainneverever · Mar 11, 2018

That's what I have experienced a lot in this forum. When people cannot find facts and numbers to support their points, they don't try to find new angles to analyze the available facts and numbers, they don't try to examine themselves if they misunderstood the facts and numbers before, they just accused me of manupilating facts and numbers and never explained how I did.
Feel sorry for them.

WorkerBee · Mar 12, 2018

I looked up Ma Long six years ago, he was sort of a god. Sort of breathtaking. LGY is an awesome player, maybe on his way to becoming a god, but not there yet.

NextLevel · Mar 12, 2018

talbon said:
LGY, currently 23, is clearly better than the 23 y.-o. ML.

ML, currently 29(?), is clearly better than LGY.

LGY tends to choke. ML was good at choking too. So was Hao Shuai. Leave it to time and LGY to figure out what he can or cannot achieve.

Other than hardcore ML and ZJK fans, nobody gives a f*ck about who tops the other one. I think the rest of us just enjoyed watching two awesome players.

You're good at collecting stats but your facts tend to go pseudo-factual when ML is involved. Anyway, bye bye.

Listen, raineverever annoys me with her Ma Long fandom and ZJK derision as much as anyone else, but come on, Ma Long's struggles need to be put in perspective - he is the greatest player of all time (to me), and I felt this way in 2012 before he had won anything and I am happy he wasn't forever cheated of his due by the change in the rationing of Olympic spots. The guy went lengthy periods with nary a defeat even before he won a major! And he was already national champ and Asian Champ before the majors came in.

They called the generation with ZJK, ML and XX the special generation for a reason. China wants to dominate and expects to but they don't take it for granted that they will find another generation as dominant as that one. LGY is not on that level - I still think he has a chance to get better, as he is incredibly hard working and tends to learn from his mistakes, but he is not on the level of the greatest player of all time. Nothing to be ashamed of.

rainneverever · Mar 12, 2018

WH congrated FZD on Weibo and said this time FZD was in his worst form. lol

ping fun · Mar 12, 2018

talbon said:
ML peaked after ZJK, but that's ok. It's hard to judge a player's potential, and you can't always do so based on how early or how fast they accomplish this or that. So ML might even top ZJK one day.

Then of course there'll still be Waldner as the greatest of all time. This guy was already the one true legend of table tennis while the others were still wearing diapers. Can't peak earlier than that.

Actually nvr have watched waldner's live game bacause of my age but thank god i was in zhang jike and ma long era and have watch their games lively but unfortunately nvr from stadium . Zhang jike and ma long arent comparable . They are both complete players . LGY has a very long way to be one of these two . Zhang jike has won WTTC in his first participation which is unique and although his 2nd one in his 2nd participation thats why he is different . but ma long after many bronze collections fortunately did and no one knows maybe he will have his 2nd too .And LGY ... every one remember what happened in germany . For sure he will improve but i hope it happens as quick as possible cause times goes by so quickly ....

UpSideDownCarl · Mar 12, 2018

Allright. Guys, the discussion about ML is over for this thread. ML was not at Qatar. No more about ML. Same for ZJK.

Feel free to talk about stuff that happened at Qatar.

Qatar Open 2018

Who do you think will win the Qatar Open 2018?

Fan Zhendong

Timo Boll

Lin Gaoyuan

Xu Xin

Koki Niwa

Wong Chun Ting

Simon Gauzy

Tomokazu Harimoto

Marcos Freitas

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