Best forehand in the world ?

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I didn't mean he always win 4:0 just saying he is playing great against defenders.

This is why he always beat JSH 4:0. =/= I didn't mean he always win 4:0.
This is confusing.
You are changing faster than this EJ friend of mine changing his rubbers every day.
Jokes, just pulling your leg lol

BTW, I think RSM doesn't play backhand has nothing to do with the way you are pointing out. It is more rather that the style of play for Jpen is BH block and FH attack. This is some other debate on its own.. and he does play BH, I seen it thousands of times, not "never" as per your statement...
okay I stop here, lol

 

[Anders]

I doubt that.
When he was on the higest form in his career (before injury), he was still a bit far from top 10 level.
The only thing Michael Maze is "best" in, is his lobs
No one can match him there - ever

You really can't say he was far from top 10 level when at january 2010 he was ranked 8th in the world.. But He doesn't have to be the best player in the world to have the greatest forehand, you can have the best service in the world or the best backhand, but still doesn't mean you are the best player in the world

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

You really can't say he was far from top 10 level when at january 2010 he was ranked 8th in the world.. But He doesn't have to be the best player in the world to have the greatest forehand, you can have the best service in the world or the best backhand, but still doesn't mean you are the best player in the world

So you really reckon without injury Maze will be the best player in the world now?
For 2 months he is in Top 10 of his entire career. Other players who spend most of they lifes in top 10 can't even become the best player in the world....

 

[Alborz]

This is why he always beat JSH 4:0. =/= I didn't mean he always win 4:0.
This is confusing.
You are changing faster than this EJ friend of mine changing his rubbers every day.
Jokes, just pulling your leg lol

BTW, I think RSM doesn't play backhand has nothing to do with the way you are pointing out. It is more rather that the style of play for Jpen is BH block and FH attack. This is some other debate on its own.. and he does play BH, I seen it thousands of times, not "never" as per your statement...
okay I stop here, lol

First, if i say something wrong and after that i find out it was wrong it's better to change my idea that defending that wrong idea.
Second, We are getting far from my question:"Why you think playing against a chopper shows the quality of forehand?"

You should watch Ma Long playing a chopper. And you will see he has almost no problem to power loop those chops. He loss so many points because the chopper counter the balls back to his BH. This is why Zhang Jike has slitly better results against JSH than Ma Long. Not because his forehand loop is better but because his able to block JSH's surprising attacks. Also his short pushes are not so high like Ma Long so JSH will not be able to attack them.

I'm trying to say the results against a defender is not a good way to understand the quality of forehand because it depends on other techniques too.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

First, if i say something wrong and after that i find out it was wrong it's better to change my idea that defending that wrong idea.
Second, We are getting far from my question:"Why you think playing against a chopper shows the quality of forehand?"

You should watch Ma Long playing a chopper. And you will see he has almost no problem to power loop those chops. He loss so many points because the chopper counter the balls back to his BH. This is why Zhang Jike has slitly better results against JSH than Ma Long. Not because his forehand loop is better but because his able to block JSH's surprising attacks. Also his short pushes are not so high like Ma Long so JSH will not be able to attack them.

I'm trying to say the results against a defender is not a good way to understand the quality of forehand because it depends on other techniques too.

lol okay.
Thats what I am trying to say too. Ma Long is not the best FH player in the world because he has some weakness on his FH too.
For other FH strong players, they don't need the "rest" to beat choppers, FH is enough.
PS, we are talking about forehand in the world, not forehand loop in the world. loop is only one of the things that can come from the forehand stroke.

But in general, to test of the player has strong forehand loop, is to see how they cope with choppers.
Other technique - footwork, weight, etc is crucial for a player to be considered for one of the best forehand players in the world.

And even if Ma Long is the best in the world - so what?
He has achieved nothing of value. That is why result is more important.
PS, I like Ma Long more than ZJK, due to attitude, but Ma Long with such a lucky entry into CNT at such a young age, is pretty disappointing at the end of the day

 

[Anders]

So you really reckon without injury Maze will be the best player in the world now?
For 2 months he is in Top 10 of his entire career. Other players who spend most of they lifes in top 10 can't even become the best player in the world....

I think we need to look at the definition of "best player in the world", is it the world champion, the world cup winner, the olympic champion or the number one ranked??

IMHO Maze would have reached the first spot on the rankings without injury, or at least won gold at the worlds or the Olympics. You have to see, Maze had this x-factor, and still has, unless he would never be able to come back so strongly from this injury problems..

But it's all about if.. We'll never know

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I think we need to look at the definition of "best player in the world", is it the world champion, the world cup winner, the olympic champion or the number one ranked??

IMHO Maze would have reached the first spot on the rankings without injury, or at least won gold at the worlds or the Olympics. You have to see, Maze had this x-factor, and still has, unless he would never be able to come back so strongly from this injury problems..

But it's all about if.. We'll never know

Hm... I would say you over rate Maze.
Firstly we have the Chinese players and in some cases (world tours, WTTC etc) there is so many of them entered.
Then we have other top players like Koreans, Japanese, HK (at a stage), Singapore (at a stage), and Europeans.

I would always rate Maze a Top 20, not really a Top 10. Even if he is a Top 10, he sure isn't consistent or good enough to be Top 5.
He makes too much unforced errors and I think his allround strategy, play has some weaknesses.
I need to watch more of his games now to list them. My memories is all from years ago though.

To define best player is indeed difficult. But results need to count, as well as world ranking - a long term ranking, not just a lucky 6 month period etc and Maze possess neither.
I think it would be interesting to see what Maze really could achieve without all the injury.
Certainly he was in the CNT radar and a "watch out", but never a top threat after Shanghai 2005

 

[Alborz]

lol okay.
Thats what I am trying to say too. Ma Long is not the best FH player in the world because he has some weakness on his FH too.
For other FH strong players, they don't need the "rest" to beat choppers, FH is enough.
PS, we are talking about forehand in the world, not forehand loop in the world. loop is only one of the things that can come from the forehand stroke.

But in general, to test of the player has strong forehand loop, is to see how they cope with choppers.
Other technique - footwork, weight, etc is crucial for a player to be considered for one of the best forehand players in the world.

And even if Ma Long is the best in the world - so what?
He has achieved nothing of value. That is why result is more important.
PS, I like Ma Long more than ZJK, due to attitude, but Ma Long with such a lucky entry into CNT at such a young age, is pretty disappointing at the end of the day

So you are agree with me that the results against a chopper just shows the quality of forehand loop not all techniques in FH.

So i'm agree with you in most of points except the last one. Ma Long's career is not ended yet. He may win a WTTC or even OG. Remember Ma Lin hasn't won any title except of World Cup until he was 28. But suddenly he won the 2008 Olympics when he was 28!
I'm not saying Ma Long is going to win 2016 Rio. Just saying he still have chances.

Actually Ma Long was so unlucky until know. He was ranked #1 in WR a few month before 2011 WTTC then he got injured and fall to #5 so he wasn't able to qualify for 2012 London.

And in his match against Wang Hao in semi-final of 2011 WTTC he was pretty unlucky. He was 2:1 and 10:9 in lead. Then suddenly Wang Hao got a pig edge ball and after that won that game. In the next games Wang Hao usually won 4-5 points by edge and net balls. If Ma Long wasn't that unlucky then he would reached the final. If he had won the match against Wang Hao there, he would not get mentally destroyed in semi-final of 2013 WTTC and probably won the match. Also he was very unlucky to face Wang Hao in semi-final of WTTC 3 times.

Still, i'm not saying he was going to win the WTTC. Just saying he was pretty unlucky and he could be in the final of WTTC two times and qualified for Olympics.

 

[countrybread]

I'm not aware of many penholders who have great trouble with defenders. For example, Shan Xiaona handily defeated Seo Hyo Won in the 2014 German Open. Come to think of it, almost all the penholders have lethal forehands.

 

[agold]

So much to say. First, I think you forgot Saive when you talked abt lobbers . Then, Mizutani has a great forehand away from the table. His backhand has improved a ton since the time I'm talking about, but he used to lob and block defensively with his backhand and counter loop incredibly offensively with his forehand. He would be in a rally of counterloops, and then there is a loop to his backhand. He would lob it, and then loop the smash to his forehand. With a no-backhand style, he stayed in the top. You can't say someone like him doesn't have a good forehand. Next, there was just an article in tabletennista about semifinals and how they kill everyone. Kind of related to the most recent post. Lastly, I want to add Joo Se Hyuk to the best forehand. This is because of the tactics part. Think about it: he has a much higher point win percentage with his forehand. This is because he chops with varying spin until he gets a high throw loop, and then slams it down. If it comes back, he either slams it again or goes back to chopping until there is another opportunity. That is tactics, and so his forehand is the best. This is kind of contrevarsal, so tell me what you guys think

 

[Anders]

Hm... I would say you over rate Maze.
Firstly we have the Chinese players and in some cases (world tours, WTTC etc) there is so many of them entered.
Then we have other top players like Koreans, Japanese, HK (at a stage), Singapore (at a stage), and Europeans.

I would always rate Maze a Top 20, not really a Top 10. Even if he is a Top 10, he sure isn't consistent or good enough to be Top 5.
He makes too much unforced errors and I think his allround strategy, play has some weaknesses.
I need to watch more of his games now to list them. My memories is all from years ago though.

To define best player is indeed difficult. But results need to count, as well as world ranking - a long term ranking, not just a lucky 6 month period etc and Maze possess neither.
I think it would be interesting to see what Maze really could achieve without all the injury.
Certainly he was in the CNT radar and a "watch out", but never a top threat after Shanghai 2005

Yes, I might over rate him as things have turned out.. But I think without the injury, he might have been a man for the big occasions like World Championships and such, but again, we'll never know another truth that the one with injury, it can only be speculation

But I have watched almost every game of him, and I can see a lot of potential both before and after the injury. Imagine how many other players that could achieved what he did during the London Olympics after so long out with injury..

 

[mahomedy13]

very valid point by Agold regarding tactics. JSH does have a good tactic when it comes to forehands. He waits for the opportune moment, then strikes. If he doesnt get it the first time,he wont do the same thing again immediately, he'll wait again for the moment,then place the ball exactly where he wants it.This is good tactic.No wonder hes 1 of the best defenders/choppers in the world

 

[phillypong]

Michael Maze in his prime had the best forehand, I am 100% sure that without the injuries, he would have been the best player in the world by now

But as for today, I would have to say Xu Xin has the best forehand, it's just amazing!

Hahahahahaha, Maze the best forehand , hahahahaha. The best injury provoking technique , jerking movements technique in the world !!
Maze is playing like a jerking robot , hahahaha.

The best forhand in the world WAS (yes it is the past now, in his best years) without any doubt Jean-Michel Saive. He has never had a good backhand but he could powerspin any ball (even Waldners best serves, in Waldners best years).
He was number 1 in the world without a decent backhand !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just google some video's of him destroying Waldner only with his forehand.

I really think Saive is the least technically talented player in the world ever to have reached world number 1 ranking.
Fighting spirit , he was without ANY doubt the number one until now.
He also has always said that for example his brother Philippe Saive had more talent. Philippe Saive has hardly reached world top 50 i think !

Greetings to everybody on this fantastic forum

 

[Shiro]

Ma lin for his very fast forehand drives but jun mizutani for far away table play

 

[LethalForehand]

people, check this video out

no one else has been able to pull out soo many FH kill shots than Chen Qi, He has tactics in this game, and very effectively sets up balls for his forehand. Joo se hyuk got destroyed pretty bad.

or this:

against patrick baum. so many epic forehands. For me his forehand is the best. his overall game is not, but the forehand....

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I miss Chen Qi.
Sadly his serves, short game and backhand is too weak for Top 20 level, thus is why he can not progress further

His forehand is his strength, but same token, he relies too much on it (trains too much compared to training other aspect of his game).
Thus is why he is a better doubles players than singles player.

I'm still waiting for a top leftie shakehand player from China of this era.
I think Chen Qi really could of possess all this, but improvement from other aspect of the game didn't come

No doubt his forehand was really good.

 

[mahomedy13]

chen qi's forehand was excellent.but when you dont worry too much about other aspects,then it becomes the destruction of your game

 

[Anders]

Hahahahahaha, Maze the best forehand , hahahahaha. The best injury provoking technique , jerking movements technique in the world !!
Maze is playing like a jerking robot , hahahaha.

The best forhand in the world WAS (yes it is the past now, in his best years) without any doubt Jean-Michel Saive. He has never had a good backhand but he could powerspin any ball (even Waldners best serves, in Waldners best years).
He was number 1 in the world without a decent backhand !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just google some video's of him destroying Waldner only with his forehand.

I really think Saive is the least technically talented player in the world ever to have reached world number 1 ranking.
Fighting spirit , he was without ANY doubt the number one until now.
He also has always said that for example his brother Philippe Saive had more talent. Philippe Saive has hardly reached world top 50 i think !

Greetings to everybody on this fantastic forum

Hm, so you are laughing at Maze and saying he has poor technique and therefore should not be the best, only to praise that Saive should be the best BECAUSE he has poor technique?

Seems legit...

 

[mahomedy13]

your reasoning-@phillypong
makes my day seeing how you praise one and drop another because of their technique!

 

[beeray1]

I think something worthy of note is his serve. I think at one time he (Chen Qi) had one of the best service games on CNT. It was a long while ago, but I remember Boll mentioning something vocally in a match against Chen Qi about his service, something like "All he has is good service" when he was beat by Chen Qi. Also, Chen Qi was in the top 10 for a while, wasn't he?

If we are talking all time FH, is Wang Liqin being left out just so we can discuss best forehand besides him? He was the undisputed king of Forehand, and I don't think that will ever change.