CNT Closed Training for WTTC 2017

[Baal]

I would hate this thread to get hijacked or raineneverever to stop posting this media ...

true for sure

And it is interesting to see it.

Still, all these photos and videos actually reinforce why every time any CNT player* plays anyone else I will cheer for the other guy. And it has nothing against any CNT player. It's just that anyone going up against someone coming out of that machine has a steep hill to climb. I certainly wouldn't expect anyone from China to agree with me, nor should they.

* except I would find it pretty hard to cheer against Liu Shiwen to be honest.

 

[Zaid323918]

true for sure

And it is interesting to see it.

Still, all these photos and videos actually reinforce why every time any CNT player* plays anyone else I will cheer for the other guy. And it has nothing against any CNT player. It's just that anyone going up against someone coming out of that machine has a steep hill to climb. I certainly wouldn't expect anyone from China to agree with me, nor should they.

* except I would find it pretty hard to cheer against Liu Shiwen to be honest.

what's special about Liu Shiwen?

 

[pgpg]

...
(3) Li Xiaoxia was very naughty while TT class kept her occupied.
...

Naughty, eh? Nudge nudge, wink wink, you know what I mean? Say no more!

/MontyPythonMode

Seriously, though - I actually love this thread, @rainneverever, please keep it going.

 

[rainneverever]

To make you a more thorough list. There are 5 Chinese female grand slam winners, Deng Yaping's father was a TT player/coach and Wang Nan's father is a fan of TT but not professional player. Ding Ning's parents were athletes (not TT players). Zhang Yining's and Li Xiaoxia's families have no sports background.
There are 4 Chinese male grand slam winners, Liu Guoliang, Kong Linghui and Zhang Jike are all sons of TT coaches while Ma Long's family has no sports background.
For Olympic gold medalists, Wang Hao's and Guo Yue's fathers are fans of TT while Ma Lin's, Wang Liqin's, Yan Sen's, Wang Tao's, Lu Lin’s families have no sports background. Chen Qi's mother has track/field training background, but his family has no TT background. Just FYI Wang Tao's is from a musician family.
For current world champions Xu Xin's, Fan Zhendong's, Fang Bo's, Liu Shiwen's, Zhu Yuling's families have no TT background. Chen Meng's mother used to a TT player.

I think this list says something: (1) 4 out 9 Chinese Grand Slam winners are with TT coaches background. (2) Some players' parents have TT as a hobby which impacted their career choice. (3) Most players do not have TT or even sports background, but it does not keep them from talent identification.

I can name you at least 10 TT legends not only chinese who had TT background , can you name me 10 TT legends WITHOUT any tt background who reached the very top without any help, purely by results?

 

[Persistence TT]

You are constantly missing my point either on purpose or not it does not matter anyway cheers I wasnt referring to TT families only, I explained which factors I consider important

Given the current level of the rest countries in TT I strongly believe that there are players (who are not top 10 inside the CNT) which if given the chance and nurtured properly from coaches and the whole teamwork you have pointed out they can clinch world titles.

But its a lot easier to let the players kill each other and definitely more efficient. And somewhere along the way politics /careers and personal interests come into play

 

[Persistence TT]

Besides I was talking about the whole worldwide picture not only CNT

boll's father a coach, dima's the same. waldner's brother was a player and his father motivated him. He had appelgren in his teens to take care of him. Kreanga's father wanted him to be an athlete and was trained in Bistrita , Romania the training school that produced all the top romanian players.

Other examples, not so successful but with a bad taste of politics. Adrien Mattenet, exploded in world cup 2011 but after 2013 his relationships with the federation were bad as some french users said. Several top russian players were banned from the RNT for the same reason

Again I was not only talking about TT families, but politics, money, connections all have their value and contribute to a player's success or not

 

[rainneverever]

Results of May 5 matches
Ma Long 4:0 Fan Zhendong
Xu Xin 4:0 Zhang Jike
Lin Gaoyuan 4:3 Liang Jingkun

 

[rainneverever]

CNT will go to Luxembourg after the closed training and head to Germany a week later.

When do the cnt head to Germany?

 

[drunix80]

Results of May 5 matches
Ma Long 4:0 Fan Zhendong
Xu Xin 4:0 Zhang

Those are shocking results to me. XX looks pretty motivated after drubbing in Asians . But not to forget he has the tendency to crumble under pressure.

 

[ttmonster]

Results of May 5 matches
Ma Long 4:0 Fan Zhendong
Xu Xin 4:0 Zhang Jike
Lin Gaoyuan 4:3 Liang Jingkun
[/video]

Based on current form and injuries, all the results other than the last one are pretty much upsets , may be the coaches have taken out some shots from their repertoire and asked to play without some of their regularly used weapons

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

It is a known fact that for one to get to the top, you will need: Money, and/or connections, and/or political backing, and then skills/result

CCY for example had no or close to zero support.
He fought his way to the top in the world by support of his mom selling they own properties to fund his development.
His mom sending in to China and uses personal contacts (mom was a formal player.....)

Back to China, it is common, if your kids are 8 years old, if you are not paying the coach more, the coach won't focus on your kid.
Favoritism or buying favoritism is norm is lots of sports

What I am saying, if people think CNT is all about team work
If CNT is all about the correct model
Think again

There is a very ugly side to it, and it is really only the fittest survive, and we are not talking just about results.

And I would agree, if ZJK's coaches doesn't have that special "ability", it is not often that kicked out players return to the A team

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

what's special about Liu Shiwen?

Whats not special about Liu Shiwen?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Come on guys , I think we should give this a break now ... lets just enjoy the media coming out ... we are consumers ..

yes , CNT had issues in the past and I am sure there is politics even today , any organization with access to so much power , prestige and money will have politics isn't that a reality. In any sport there is nepotism , growing up I thought it was only in the sport I played in my country and now I realize why my parents pushed me to be a software engineer and not a sportsman ...

Does CNT have better infrastructure than any other country in the world ... the short answer is yes .. does not matter whether Japan has more dollars per player, they are doing it only lately , CNT has a process in places thats been tested through generations ... also they have a much larger player base to choose from , I don't think with the current situation just putting more dollars are going to help , isn't it just pure probability ... probability of a Ma Long coming out of the CNT system is way much higher than a Miu Hirano coming out through Japan ... then comes the question of sustainability ... Pete sampras famously said becoming no. 1 is much easier compared to staying there .. of course CNT has a much larger resource and support structure to support ... is there ugly history in CNT of throwing matches not only to internal players but also to north korean players , just to show support in international politics ... yes ... but is it happennig today ... no ... so why bring it up now ... its different now .. I am sure things are more transparent ... I am sure things are not ideal .... that is why 'ideal' is what it means ...

why are we debating this in a thread meant for enjoying the media coming out of a closed training ..... I understand everybody is making valid and well thought out arguments , but I would hate this thread to get hijacked or raineneverever to stop posting this media ...

This media is public media already and all over the internet
Maybe some people are just lazy and only want TTD to delivery it they door step
any ways

I am just disagreeing to Rain and some people who think CNT has it right.
I already said, from PR part, no one can beat CNT
But CNT is not Heaven

imo, i prefer the new JNT method - see how many Japanese players are able to play internationally? I lost count, but in the junior top 200, there is what, 30 to 50 players???

Japan is a proper free country. If you have money/self funding/support, JTTA will allow you to play on the ITTF junior circuit.
In China, if you are not in the CNT development, good luck with playing on junior circuit.
I already explained the difficulties on being in CNT, it is not just skills

one player in JNT has a support staff of 6 people to 1 player.
CNT is not there yet, it also updated to 1 to 1 coach/player this year

Any ways, I shall stop talking to you if you don't like to hear my inside knowledge of CNT and a couple of national teams that I have really good connections with.
You can continue to enjoy your media

Should rain stop posting, then tell me, and I can give you all the links and you can do the copy and paste duties for TTD

 

[ttmonster]

Creating this thread to ensure we stay on topic on the CNT closed training thread .. I honestly think a lot of people want to discuss this have put forward very valueable points and it certainly deserves its own thread ... hope fellow TTD members want to chime in here ..
https://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/...act-on-CNT-and-table-tennis-teams-and-players

 

[ttmonster]

You are right , I am certainly lazy and actually lazier than you think , I don't want to do the copy paste .. I just want to read what rain pastes ... but I am a little smarter than you give me credit ... so I created a new thread to ensure we discuss what we are discussing here .. just don't want to stay on topic .. hope you don't mind ...

This media is public media already and all over the internet
Maybe some people are just lazy and only want TTD to delivery it they door step
any ways

I am just disagreeing to Rain and some people who think CNT has it right.
I already said, from PR part, no one can beat CNT
But CNT is not Heaven

imo, i prefer the new JNT method - see how many Japanese players are able to play internationally? I lost count, but in the junior top 200, there is what, 30 to 50 players???

Japan is a proper free country. If you have money/self funding/support, JTTA will allow you to play on the ITTF junior circuit.
In China, if you are not in the CNT development, good luck with playing on junior circuit.
I already explained the difficulties on being in CNT, it is not just skills

one player in JNT has a support staff of 6 people to 1 player.
CNT is not there yet, it also updated to 1 to 1 coach/player this year

Any ways, I shall stop talking to you if you don't like to hear my inside knowledge of CNT and a couple of national teams that I have really good connections with.
You can continue to enjoy your media

Should rain stop posting, then tell me, and I can give you all the links and you can do the copy and paste duties for TTD

 

[ttmonster]

Any ways, I shall stop talking to you if you don't like to hear my inside knowledge of CNT and a couple of national teams that I have really good connections with.
You can continue to enjoy your media

Come on Tony , you got me completely wrong ... I don't have anything against the arguments and the information exchange that was happening here ... I just wanted to stay on topic .. you should have noticed when I was trying to stop the hijacking , I myself could not resist putting my 2 cents on this ...

The point I was trying to make is that everybody has contributed a lot of information , definitely you as well as rain and Baal too , there were other respected members here who also chimed in with their take on things and it was a healthy discussion ... I am no moderator and I certainly don't have the right to ask anybody to stop talking unless its inside my home , rental or otherwise .... I just thought of suggesting that since this thread has a lot of media .. and since there are lot of fanboys and fangirls out there who might come over here to see this thread , since TTD has been advertising this thread in social media .. it might not be a bad idea to be on our best behaviors and not hijack this thread ... and take the discussion to a dedicated thread of its own ... my personal opinion .. take it or leave it ... btw, I do understand where you are coming from when you air your disenchantment with CNT ..... your grievances are very valid ..

 

[Baal]

I actually didn't contribute any information at all. Just a sports fan's opinion.

 

[blueicecream]

Just focus this topic please.

 

[drunix80]

Just focus this topic please.

Yes I am still scratching my head why FZD and ZJK lost 0:4 to ML and XX. Any opinions ??

 

[Baal]

Just focus this topic please.

Sure. What is it?