Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Der_Echte]

o it might be this hall that caused trouble for me. It was not so bright and the tables were very shiny so the ball disappeared.

Do you guys have an easy time to adjust to different environments? and do you think different halls can be fast or slow?

haha Lula this is a HUGE issue in USA. Just about every place you play TT is not designed for TT, but basketball or a place where they need less light to see a huge ball.

Light colored walls, shiny tables, glare from windows, floor reflecting light, bright lights right in vision too far spread out make for crappy light distribution...

That all contributes to "Now you see it,,, now you don't" syndrome. Players like me who strike the ball after it leaves the table and use ore graze are the most affected by these conditions.

Hitters or those who mostly use solid contact and especially those who play over the table are not so affected.

I refuse to become an over the table counter hitter... I lie putting heavy topspin on the ball. It makes me feel good...

NLL will clue you in on that last line if you forgot about Greg L.

 

[RidTheKid]

Dusty floors and shitty lighting is common.

Played my second tournament today. So now i have played two tournaments the last 10-12 years. I only played double. I did not play well, but we managed to win. I am somewhat to good for this level, but still fun to play double. Also difficult to play matches when you are not used to it.

Frustrating that i did not play better. Or it felt so, but maybe i played not so many fancy shots but better with placement and returns this time.

I often feel that i have a good "hit", timing, but today it was off. So it is hard to force yourself to be determined when you hit the ball. When you start to hesitate it does not go well.

But i have been sick, have not played footwork or forehand because a foot injury and have gained some weigth so maybe i played okay if we consider that.

Our training hall is amazing, great red mat, good tables and excellent light so it might be this hall that caused trouble for me. It was not so bright and the tables were very shiny so the ball dissapeared.

Do you guys have an easy time to adjust to different environments? and do you think different halls can be fast or slow?

It was fun that we won today, but i am not happy that i played somewhat bad. Do you think it is better to play badly and win or play good and lose?

 

[yoass]

Some clubs play in gyms, with linoleum floors, tables with low bounce and/or slow, unbouncing, unspinny balls.

It takes a few matches to adjust. I find myself a foot or so away from a ball dropping as I get in position to loop or counterspin it.

By now I’ve grown accustomed to, once I notice this during warmup, to anchor myself to the table and play everything over it in a flatter, more direct style. No matter what else you do, if you don’t make contact with the ball it’s game over.

 

[Richie]

I always feel like smaller venues are faster and spinnier, does anyone else feel that?

When I played local league in the UK I played in so many strange venues.. once in a barn where there were cows and we played in the room or attic above/next to them. I remember picking the ball up when it went in the corner and some hay had stuck to it.

 

[FruitLoop]

Sometimes small venues are really slow as well.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Hi guys, haven't posted a while.
I played my third pennant today.

...

https://youtu.be/1WO5arnRYIg

Si-hing,

1st, thank you for posting a video of your match. Not many people have the courage to do that and ask for advice and be receptive to the advice. I watched your whole heartbreaking match.

2nd, I am not qualified as the others on technical aspects who have given you excellent advice already as I still have inconsistent skills/techniques.

Will make some general comments which I hope may help you:

1. Ways to win points

A. Your attacks and/or returns win points
B. Your opponent loses points from their failed attacks/serves or not being able to return your shot
C. Unretured net/edge balls

To win a game/set, you need to reach 11 points sooner than your opponent. Unless you are a defensive player, most players will attack to win the point. Know what to expect generally from each of your serves.

It's no secret that I am a smasher more than a looper, so when i serve side-top i generally expect to smash on 3rd ball if it's popped up. You are more of a looper than me and you serve mostly down/side-down so get ready to loop the 3rd ball. There were at least 2 backhand serves you had and her return was to your FH and you didn't loop them.

Do not let your Ego get you thinking I must make a highlight-worthy attack or a satisfying attack. Return the ball that is most advantageous to you and the most vulnerable for your opponent. Easy for me to say, and hard to do sometimes in the heat of a match. [EDIT: sometimes to win a point, you only need direct the ball to where your opponent is not ... if they are a few feet away from the table, drop shot ... if they are on their extreme BH side, return the ball to their FH. It's not necessary to always attack with your best/favorite attack. It's about finding ways to win the point. In Judo, there is a saying, and by extension other martial arts have this saying too ... "Maximum efficiency, minimum effort." No need to expend too much energy on your attacks if a simple block or drop shot will do.]

She couldn't handle your heavy slow topspin loops. You do this well. I've seen you do this many times in your other videos. You do it much better than me! This should be one of your staple attacks, that is, if it works on your opponent, this should be your primary go-to attack.

2. Opponent's skill level

If i think my opponent's skill level is below mine, i will generally attack when I serve, and play stable/steady on their serves and let them make mistakes. Not an exciting way to win a point by letting your opponent "hang themselves", but you should win the point. And the name of the game, at least in tournament play, is to win.

She lost a few points on missed serves. Think it was the 4th game, she missed both her serves, then you served, blocked her attack but missed her followup to lose the game. Let your opponent hang themselves. [EDIT: This game went her way, but if you rewatch your match, she seems to miss her serve and give your free points, at least 3 points a game. It's like she says, ok, I'll spot you 3 points. I have mentioned that I played Mark Berg on this thread a few times. Invariably I lose. The one comment he made to me after our matches that stuck in my mind: "You missed your serve at least once a game. You are not at a level to be giving me free points." Some games were close wins for him ... what if I didn't miss my serves? So if you see your opponent giving you free points by missing their serve at least once a game, that suggests perhaps they are nervous, not that skilled, etc ... play it safe/stable when they serve, but when you serve, you should be confident in your attacks.]

3. Wanting to win

Sometimes we put too much pressure on ourselves expecting or desiring the "W". Already thinking of winning the match without playing.

Be in the moment. Only think of one point at a time. Don't think of this game or the match. Focus winning each point as you are about to play the point. Don't focus on winning the game or the match. Be in the moment. Think only of that one point you are playing. It's like American football. Don't think of the touchdown ... think only of gaining at least 10 yds for the first down. Continue the drive downfield thinking only of getting 10 yds. [EDIT: of course, sometimes you see the quarterback throw a long pass into the endzone, but they do that once in awhile. They are looking to move the ball 10 yds in 4 downs/chances.]

Everyone wants to win. Why play a game and keep score? Why give out trophies? Because every player wants to win. Do not add extra pressure on yourself of thinking "I must win!" Just flow and play your game, make adjustments. Be in the moment and only think of how to win that one point you both are contesting to gain.

I am rambling at this point. Sorry. Truly HTH!
~Si-dai

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

My club is a Dept of Parks recreation center. The walls are white! I can't pick up the ball at times.

To compound that, some members wear white shirts lol

I should wear my glasses when playing but I don't. Not comfortable wearing them during strenuous activity.

 

[NextLevel]

F

Thanks NextLevel, as I mention above to Takkyu_wa_inochi, there may be reasons why I appear to be lacking in energy or desire to move. I will work on having a good rest the night before but not overthinking.
Please do go into a bit more detail about the forehand. I think I was doing the forehands too vertical as I wasn't in the right position so I wasn't able to use my legs, and therefore was only 'lifting' the ball over the net.

Looping is really a stroke that comes from the core. Using the legs is really an indirect way of activating the core. Most good players lean forward when they want to loop block or topspin because they want to change the plane of their swing to make it more forward. I can't lean so I change my swing plane with my hand. But if you contrast a windmill, which is vertical, to a helicopter, which is horizontal, most loops fall in between, but if you practice helicopter loops in your head and just continue to look at 3 things -

1. Where the racket starts 2. Where you hit the ball 3. Where the racket finishes

You will be amazed at what you can do to the ball with a fast swing. All that then happens is that you have to read the incoming spin and figure out how and where to make contact with your swing. Looking at what happened to the ball lets you adjust.

But the windmill has no forward motion, so it is mostly spin, so it can be serviceable against backspin, but has a major problem that the forward motion may not even get you what you need. But against topspin or to kill backspin balls, you need more forward motion. Try it sometime.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Hello DTT CCers!

I haven't posted in a month or 2. Here's a brief recap in my "unretirement" from TT lol

1. I haven't played for 32 years. A little over 3 years ago, I unretired from TT and starting playing again.

2. I have been mostly self-learning RPB for the past year. With a little help initially from a coach friend, he wanted me to learn the RPB basics of block, punch, and flat hit before attempting to learn to RPB spin. He advised a grip which makes it very easy for me to RPB block/punch/flat hit/spin. However, the grip for me is unorthodox. The past 2 or 3 months, I have tried to play with this unorthodox grip. I feel I don't get as much spin on my serves compared to when I used a traditional grip. It's unorthodox because I cannot find any YouTube teaching this grip .... thumb is gripping past the 'centerline' of the handle... that is, my thumb is past the thumb side of a traditional grip and onto the index finger side of the handle. My thumb crossed centerline. My index finger is resting on the edge of the blade, sometimes it's even on the back of the blade! I also feel I don't push as well as I used to.

3. I have gotten somewhat accustomed to the unorthodox grip. My RPB is getting steadier. I am able to rally deeper into the point. Lately, fellow members/friends have commented after playing against me as well as watching me play that I have improved. One friend/member who has an a LOT of wins over me, like 40 or 50 wins over me, i am exaggerating but it's not that far off LOL. I have had only 3 or 4 wins off of him and those were usually at 5 games. Most of the time it's me forcing myself to use RPB to spin or punch and i lose the point.

Last week, I beat him 3-0, but he got 8 pts average a game. I'm still messing up, but finally my RPB is also winning some points. Others and even he himself says I'm more skilled than him, but he plays steady to return the ball and i 'hang myself' and make unforced errors most of the time from my RPB missing. So finally after a year or so and changing to a different grip, my RPB is starting to 'click'. I played him again this week and lost 3-2 LOL. In my 3-0 win, I RPB slow heavy topsin to his BH and he had no answer for it. Funny that I learn this tactic or strategy from Der_Echte for my FH loop which I have neglected in the past year while concentrating on my RPB.

I also play another friend who is better than me. JPenner who has a FH loop, killer FH smash, and a BH smash. He still wins 3-0 or 3-1, but I am averaging 7 or 8 points a game against him when I used to only get 4 or 5.

The other factor of my gameplay is that I rush my shots. On some points, when I'm mindful of it, I don't rush my shots and am able to get longer rallies instead of losing the point on 2nd or 3rd ball, I'm now winning/losing on 5th-7th.

4. I am slowly working on my FH loop again. I am mostly arm. I am not using my core/legs as much. This is because when I was a kid, I wasn't officially taught the loop. I picked it up on my own watching other players looping.

5. Working on my other weaknesses too sooner or later ... slow to reset to neutral after serve or shots, reading spin (partly because I should wear glasses but don't when I play LOL), relaxing and slowing down/don't rush myself.

And for all that read this far, thank you LOL

Very truly yours in TT,

~osph

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

OSPH great to see that you have some results from your training ! keep on !
I think at our kind of level, becoming more consistent and improving our footwork is key. Hitting 20% faster or 20% more spin is not going to make us win matches.

 

[JeffM]

Si-hing,

1st, thank you for posting a video of your match. Not many people have the courage to do that and ask for advice and be receptive to the advice. I watched your whole heartbreaking match.

2nd, I am not qualified as the others on technical aspects who have given you excellent advice already as I still have inconsistent skills/techniques.

Will make some general comments which I hope may help you:

1. Ways to win points

A. Your attacks and/or returns win points
B. Your opponent loses points from their failed attacks/serves or not being able to return your shot
C. Unretured net/edge balls

To win a game/set, you need to reach 11 points sooner than your opponent. Unless you are a defensive player, most players will attack to win the point. Know what to expect generally from each of your serves.

It's no secret that I am a smasher more than a looper, so when i serve side-top i generally expect to smash on 3rd ball if it's popped up. You are more of a looper than me and you serve mostly down/side-down so get ready to loop the 3rd ball. There were at least 2 backhand serves you had and her return was to your FH and you didn't loop them.

Do not let your Ego get you thinking I must make a highlight-worthy attack or a satisfying attack. Return the ball that is most advantageous to you and the most vulnerable for your opponent. Easy for me to say, and hard to do sometimes in the heat of a match. [EDIT: sometimes to win a point, you only need direct the ball to where your opponent is not ... if they are a few feet away from the table, drop shot ... if they are on their extreme BH side, return the ball to their FH. It's not necessary to always attack with your best/favorite attack. It's about finding ways to win the point. In Judo, there is a saying, and by extension other martial arts have this saying too ... "Maximum efficiency, minimum effort." No need to expend too much energy on your attacks if a simple block or drop shot will do.]

She couldn't handle your heavy slow topspin loops. You do this well. I've seen you do this many times in your other videos. You do it much better than me! This should be one of your staple attacks, that is, if it works on your opponent, this should be your primary go-to attack.

2. Opponent's skill level

If i think my opponent's skill level is below mine, i will generally attack when I serve, and play stable/steady on their serves and let them make mistakes. Not an exciting way to win a point by letting your opponent "hang themselves", but you should win the point. And the name of the game, at least in tournament play, is to win.

She lost a few points on missed serves. Think it was the 4th game, she missed both her serves, then you served, blocked her attack but missed her followup to lose the game. Let your opponent hang themselves. [EDIT: This game went her way, but if you rewatch your match, she seems to miss her serve and give your free points, at least 3 points a game. It's like she says, ok, I'll spot you 3 points. I have mentioned that I played Mark Berg on this thread a few times. Invariably I lose. The one comment he made to me after our matches that stuck in my mind: "You missed your serve at least once a game. You are not at a level to be giving me free points." Some games were close wins for him ... what if I didn't miss my serves? So if you see your opponent giving you free points by missing their serve at least once a game, that suggests perhaps they are nervous, not that skilled, etc ... play it safe/stable when they serve, but when you serve, you should be confident in your attacks.]

3. Wanting to win

Sometimes we put too much pressure on ourselves expecting or desiring the "W". Already thinking of winning the match without playing.

Be in the moment. Only think of one point at a time. Don't think of this game or the match. Focus winning each point as you are about to play the point. Don't focus on winning the game or the match. Be in the moment. Think only of that one point you are playing. It's like American football. Don't think of the touchdown ... think only of gaining at least 10 yds for the first down. Continue the drive downfield thinking only of getting 10 yds. [EDIT: of course, sometimes you see the quarterback throw a long pass into the endzone, but they do that once in awhile. They are looking to move the ball 10 yds in 4 downs/chances.]

Everyone wants to win. Why play a game and keep score? Why give out trophies? Because every player wants to win. Do not add extra pressure on yourself of thinking "I must win!" Just flow and play your game, make adjustments. Be in the moment and only think of how to win that one point you both are contesting to gain.

I am rambling at this point. Sorry. Truly HTH!
~Si-dai

Hi OSP!
Thank you so much for coming back to TTD CC thread, watching my video, and giving me such a detailed response!

The 3 points you mentioned are all valid. I will try apply them next match, which will be my final pennant match day for this season.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

OSPH great to see that you have some results from your training ! keep on !
I think at our kind of level, becoming more consistent and improving our footwork is key. Hitting 20% faster or 20% more spin is not going to make us win matches.

Simple and yet profoundly deep! Thank you Sir!

 

[ttmonster]

I have a completely different point JeffM .. you should start seriously working out in the gym on your legs and core and overall athleticism ... and when I mean seriously I mean with professional ... especially since you have injuries to your knee rebuilding them will need correct guidance , if I were you I would do this for the next 6 months - 1 year to add strength to my body and then after 6 months start working with a coach to improve footwork and form .. this will really help your game ... I know you have an issue with your knee .. and I also know you really like table tennis since you keep coming back to it ... but if you don't strengthen your legs and core back to where you can be comfortable practicing footwork exercises with a coach .. I don't think talking about technique/strategy is going to help... and some of this applies to me as well so I know what I am saying .. there is a lot of stuff missing in your game ... but most of it starts with footwork ... unless you want to play it differently then you have to start thinking about junk rubber etc. ... right know most of the time you look flat footed, there is not reset hop after completing a shot .. you are not able to stay low and at same height during a shot sequence and missing because you have stood up and you are trying to adjust your blocks by just trying to close your hands ... the overall flow in the form is missing .. by the way I did see most of your match .. I don't know how else to put it ... I know you are really busy trying to complete your medical study and have also knee injuries .. but think that its an advantage and try to use your contacts to figure out how you can fix your legs and eventually strengthen them to a point where they are no longer a factor stopping you from improving your game...

Hi OSP!
Thank you so much for coming back to TTD CC thread, watching my video, and giving me such a detailed response!

The 3 points you mentioned are all valid. I will try apply them next match, which will be my final pennant match day for this season.

 

[NextLevel]

I have a completely different point JeffM .. you should start seriously working out in the gym on your legs and core and overall athleticism ... and when I mean seriously I mean with professional ... especially since you have injuries to your knee rebuilding them will need correct guidance , if I were you I would do this for the next 6 months - 1 year to add strength to my body and then after 6 months start working with a coach to improve footwork and form .. this will really help your game ... I know you have an issue with your knee .. and I also know you really like table tennis since you keep coming back to it ... but if you don't strengthen your legs and core back to where you can be comfortable practicing footwork exercises with a coach .. I don't think talking about technique/strategy is going to help... and some of this applies to me as well so I know what I am saying .. there is a lot of stuff missing in your game ... but most of it starts with footwork ... unless you want to play it differently then you have to start thinking about junk rubber etc. ... right know most of the time you look flat footed, there is not reset hop after completing a shot .. you are not able to stay low and at same height during a shot sequence and missing because you have stood up and you are trying to adjust your blocks by just trying to close your hands ... the overall flow in the form is missing .. by the way I did see most of your match .. I don't know how else to put it ... I know you are really busy trying to complete your medical study and have also knee injuries .. but think that its an advantage and try to use your contacts to figure out how you can fix your legs and eventually strengthen them to a point where they are no longer a factor stopping you from improving your game...

Just about everyone who started training as an adult without intense physical training has zero reset hop. So I am not sure why you are making this an issue. And I would not recommend a reset hop as being necessary for anyone until it is clear they have major recovery issues, it is something that comes about when you train so much movement and balance that you realize that after you play a powerful stroke, you are off balance so you try to get back into balance and this is not necessary at a level where one good stroke is mostly going to win the point. His issue is just that he doesn't hit the ball with confidence and he doesn't read spin or try to overpower it. Those are things that can be fixed without reset hop footwork. Let him hit the ball properly first.

 

[ttmonster]

Just about everyone who started training as an adult without intense physical training has zero reset hop. So I am not sure why you are making this an issue. And I would not recommend a reset hop as being necessary for anyone until it is clear they have major recovery issues, it is something that comes about when you train so much movement and balance that you realize that after you play a powerful stroke, you are off balance so you try to get back into balance and this is not necessary at a level where one good stroke is mostly going to win the point. His issue is just that he doesn't hit the ball with confidence and he doesn't read spin or try to overpower it. Those are things that can be fixed without reset hop footwork. Let him hit the ball properly first.

That’s one way to look at it Nextlevel , and i don’t find any issue with what your are saying. I just think that considering Jeff’s age and physical built he still has a chance to do things right from ground up unlike some of us who have missed the bus altogether , me included due to various reasons . Also I can argue that with the new ball it’s increasingly difficult to win with a single shot, even at that level he will come up against blockers who with suboptimal technique will frustrate him. My experience in this regard is that even when you make the first powerful shot it will eventually keep coming back and he will end up being not in position to take the next shot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[NextLevel]

That’s one way to look at it Nextlevel , and i don’t find any issue with what your are saying. I just think that considering Jeff’s age and physical built he still has a chance to do things right from ground up unlike some of us who have missed the bus altogether , me included due to various reasons . Also I can argue that with the new ball it’s increasingly difficult to win with a single shot, even at that level he will come up against blockers who with suboptimal technique will frustrate him. My experience in this regard is that even when you make the first powerful shot it will eventually keep coming back and he will end up being not in position to take the next shot.


Sent from my iP hone using Tapatalk

This is true. But you will also find out that if you do not learn to take good shots without recovery, it is hard to learn to take good shots.

 

[ttmonster]

I agree .. but you do acknowledge that some of this goes hand in hand .. like most other things in table tennis its so connected ... its hard to tell them apart. This is how I would summarize our conversation on this .. what you are proposing is the first step towards improvement in his table tennis skills ... what I am proposing is to also build the foundation so that he can take it further and not get caught up in the ceiling some of us have .... when to certain extent you have the right form and technique but you cannot take your game further because you don't have the foundation to connect your skills ... there is a reason why I play doubles better than singles

This is true. But you will also find out that if you do not learn to take good shots without recovery, it is hard to learn to take good shots.

 

[mart1nandersson]

Dear diary. Today I messed up my 3rd sheet of Rozena within the span of 2 weeks. I slightly hit in the table which created a nice crack in the middle of the top sheet. The other rubbers are cracking from the edge towards the centre. Will buy an identical setup and place it in some kind of titanium box and only open it when playing in the league or during tournaments. This is starting to get expensive even though I stopped EJing.

Todays tip for everyone playing in less than ideal venues with slippery floors. Bring a damp dish cloth and place it on the floor close to the net. Step on it when do your mandatory imitation of pros "wiping their hand on the table close to the net to annoy the opponent". Works like a charm. Fantastic grip.

 

[NextLevel]

Dear diary. Today I messed up my 3rd sheet of Rozena within the span of 2 weeks. I slightly hit in the table which created a nice crack in the middle of the top sheet. The other rubbers are cracking from the edge towards the centre. Will buy an identical setup and place it in some kind of titanium box and only open it when playing in the league or during tournaments. This is starting to get expensive even though I stopped EJing.

Todays tip for everyone playing in less than ideal venues with slippery floors. Bring a damp dish cloth and place it on the floor close to the net. Step on it when do your mandatory imitation of pros "wiping their hand on the table close to the net to annoy the opponent". Works like a charm. Fantastic grip.

Rozena is overpriced for what it does. Get something old school from ESN and stop EJing after that.

 

[mart1nandersson]

Rozena is overpriced for what it does. Get something old school from ESN and stop EJing after that.

I've tried way more than I hate to admit and most of them are way too spinny which wrecks my service return game. Rozena is still quite cheap at 30$/sheet. The only thing remotely as boring and fantastic as Rozena has been EL-S but it was a bit too fast for me. T80 is quite good/similar but way too expensive for my habit of slamming my setup into the table.

Any tips for a replacement?