Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Der_Echte]

If it is a fast, long serve, then as close to the white line on your side as possible. Doesn't matter what spin, for a fast serve, the bounce on your side should be near the edge and the bounce on the other side should also be as near the white line (and the edge) on the other side as possible.


Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Haha, I beat Carl to the punch on something hahahahahaha...

But Carl, read my previous post, a dude who takes lessons at my club who looks like he not over 1200 on certain situations kicked my azz three matches in a row, I hope TTD can welcome him if we keep the Goon Squad off him the first month.

 

[Der_Echte]

If it is a fast, long serve, then as close to the white line on your side as possible. Doesn't matter what spin, for a fast serve, the bounce on your side should be near the edge and the bounce on the other side should also be as near the white line (and the edge) on the other side as possible.


Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Yep. That is as incorrect as it gets.

The arm position for a TPB punch is as different from a shakehand BH as it gets and as different from an RPB as it gets.


To start with the forearm position to turn the blade face closed for a TPB punch is pronounced supination of the forearm. An RPB requires a mild pronation of the forearm that would likely feel totally alien to OSPH. The second thing is that an RPB takes a stroke. Where as the TPB is punch.

This distinction is similar to what I showed in that shadow video of pushing forward vs stroke.

A punch moves straight forward. A stroke has a circular movement.

But, I have to be honest, having seen OldSchool play and understanding that that TPB is ingrained in his system, I doubt that he should even bother with RPB.

1) his BH Punch Block is awesome.
2) his arm is wired to that contortion that makes the TPB possible.

I have a feeling trying to learn RPB would mess him up. That if he wanted a fruitful experiment working on Shakehand to improve his Penhold skills would probably be more useful.


Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

After seeing OSPH in action, I agree with Carl's assessment. I think OSPH ought a to stay with single sided C-Pen and play a flexible FH attacking game, with a traditional BH block, punch, and touch.

If OSPH can effectively learn how spin a ball and then make a good decision on what to do with the return (if there is one), he will increase his level of skill and fun.

MAYBE he could mess around with shakehand and use a Der_Echte Special to goof off with, but i thnk at this stage, sticking to C-Pen and improving his serves, return, and types of FH tospspin would serve him best.

I think he should just cover the BH side with something black and light, like a color sheet or any OX rubber (even if he wont use it)

The Amazon I gave him will suit him well for his close to the table play and the techniques he is developing and rapidly improving upon suit his growth well.

If the Amazon feels a tad too light, then I would recommend trying out a grip tape, that out to add good weight where it needs it, the blade is solid throat solid handle pieces, I tried taking an Amazon handle off, it is solid.

 

[Archosaurus]

@laistrogian

I get your point, somewhat. However what I don't understand is why should I completely drop trying to learn to generate spin.

I am going to build my footwork with simple driving and pushing drills and there I can see the value. I'm doing a lot of footwork shadows now, too.

However I'm somewhat unconvinced that doing 100, 200, 300 drives is going to improve me as opposed to trying to learn to brush the ball which will supposedly make me worse. I'm somewhat unconvinced that learning proper form and whip action for my serves NOW as opposed to later will detriment my game in the future and stop me improving.

Is this what you're saying?

That would conflict with NL's saying that learning proper serve mechanics would benefit my game.

 

[ttmonster]

We had a kid who showed up to our club for a couple of months who fits the description. Huge forehand swing , stands really close to the table with awkwardly stretched legs , all serves are illegal and half long, infact I created my own downfall by teaching him my hook serve with contact point variations but he started doing it with really no toss and it was impossible to tell what spin was on it and can pretty much bring everything back.
The only way we could beat him was to slow down the ball all of sudden when he was winding up his strokes so that he could not use his weird timing , grip pressure efficiently enough to loop ... or is really really out of position even to touch the ball ...

I guess the guy you faced is his dad from other life

 

[Der_Echte]

Monster, I faced a 50yr old + gent today who was self taught for 30 yrs and only started taking lessons now, he is above my level despite no lesson and his weirdness on impact and change of ball is outer world weird and F's me up real bad.

 

[Archosaurus]

Der, I'm pretty sure monster was referring to him.


How good do you think he would be if he "really" learned to serve, at least? If he can play his huge forehand without a backspin serve and wipe the floor with you, then he must be something.

 

[NextLevel]

I can't use blades without grip tape any more. It's sad. They feel good in my hand, but immediately I put the rubbers on, I start feeling like the blade is head heavy or slipping or that something is missing. Then I put the grip tape on and everything feels fine. The grip tape doesn't really balance weight or anything like that (it is barely 3g if even that). But I just can't do without the feeling of it...

By the way, since I doubt this moment will ever be repeated again in my TTD posting history, I managed to break a ratio of 2 likes to each liked post at almost 2000 liked posts. 3994 likes to 1996 likes. Men, that is cool, yo!

 

[Der_Echte]

Archo is perceptive and right about Monster's comments, I had thought he wrote while I was writing and posted it right after me.

If Dude could serve 1/2 as well as me for variation, keeping it low, and changing it up at will where he wants it... AND he could receive serves with something other than an awkward bump, he would be 2100+ USATT instantly. The rest of his rally game and keeping on the table is amazing. He kept balls in play that NL or PP Holic would lose the point on, this is in addition to his strange impact.

I have never seen a player in my life at this level who has basically self taught basement technique (except for his big FH topspin, he learned that proper somewhere)... never imagined such a gent existed... but Dude is real and will kick our collective AZZ. (until we get true 2100 level and can read the ball and not just the arm/body)

 

[Archosaurus]

Der, this sounds very interesting.

I'm not sure what exactly we'd have to do for you to get video of him. Sounds like something everyone here would like to see.

 

[Der_Echte]

I can't use blades without grip tape any more. It's sad. They feel good in my hand, but immediately I put the rubbers on, I start feeling like the blade is head heavy or slipping or that something is missing. Then I put the grip tape on and everything feels fine. The grip tape doesn't really balance weight or anything like that (it is barely 3g if even that). But I just can't do without the feeling of it...

By the way, since I doubt this moment will ever be repeated again in my TTD posting history, I managed to break a ratio of 2 likes to each liked post at almost 2000 liked posts. 3994 likes to 1996 likes. Men, that is cool, yo!

NL, you know I am pretty much the same, but that 3 grams low means a lot to the balance, the impact feel, and when you sweat, it is more than 3 grams held down there.

The big thing for me (like you) is the feel. I also do not feel comfy with most handles. Maybe Stiga Master FL, even that huge handle feels a little small to me.

 

[Der_Echte]

Der, this sounds very interesting.

I'm not sure what exactly we'd have to do for you to get video of him. Sounds like something everyone here would like to see.

I have a mini tripod that extends to 15 cm over the table and I have a smart phone with a quality camera. I have no excuse not to take a vid when I want. he is willing to see a vid and learn form it... but I REALLY need to learn from this dude how to read his ball and not watch his arm and swing too much.

We got a lot to learn from each other. I am very very good at what he wants to learn and can articulate it well in person, and so does the coach here.

if dude takes lessons for one year and hits at least 2-3 times a week, he will be 2100+ USATT or I will eat my hat.

 

[NextLevel]

Archo is perceptive and right about Monster's comments, I had thought he wrote while I was writing and posted it right after me.

If Dude could serve 1/2 as well as me for variation, keeping it low, and changing it up at will where he wants it... AND he could receive serves with something other than an awkward bump, he would be 2100+ USATT instantly. The rest of his rally game and keeping on the table is amazing. He kept balls in play that NL or PP Holic would lose the point on, this is in addition to his strange impact.

I have never seen a player in my life at this level who has basically self taught basement technique (except for his big FH topspin, he learned that proper somewhere)... never imagined such a gent existed... but Dude is real and will kick our collective AZZ. (until we get true 2100 level and can read the ball and not just the arm/body)

Once you enter a club, you are no longer self-taught.

 

[Der_Echte]

OK NL, I will accept that, but I can confidently say without formal coaching and lessons this dude grew over time.

Maybe Archo has hope 30 yrs down the road if he remains in his situation. This guy proved that doing 2/3 of the standard stuff "wrong" but changing the impact and keeping it on the table and being stable under pressure and having one FH topsin shot can get you places some players never get with years of lessons.

 

[Yecats Encerwal]

I can't use blades without grip tape any more. It's sad. They feel good in my hand, but immediately I put the rubbers on, I start feeling like the blade is head heavy or slipping or that something is missing. Then I put the grip tape on and everything feels fine. The grip tape doesn't really balance weight or anything like that (it is barely 3g if even that). But I just can't do without the feeling of it...

By the way, since I doubt this moment will ever be repeated again in my TTD posting history, I managed to break a ratio of 2 likes to each liked post at almost 2000 liked posts. 3994 likes to 1996 likes. Men, that is cool, yo!

You need two more posts, and one more like!

 

[Murre5]

How is the durability compared between T05 and MX-P? I'm using MX-P right now but I feel after 2months with 3-5 times a week (6-10hours). It's already a lot different then it was when it was new. Is it the same difference on T05?

 

[laistrogian]

How is the durability compared between T05 and MX-P? I'm using MX-P right now but I feel after 2months with 3-5 times a week (6-10hours). It's already a lot different then it was when it was new. Is it the same difference on T05?

I think T05 in general lasts slightly longer compared to MX-P but the damn nice thing about tenergy is how you don't notice the grip loosen up slightly over time until you realize you need to change it.

 

[Archosaurus]

Maybe Archo has hope 30 yrs down the road if he remains in his situation.

Hahaha, I hope I don't stay in this situation for 30 years.



I played the penholder I talked about. Shoulder felt a lot better after a hot shower and it had actually forced me to not overuse it at all in my swings if I want to play, so I think my form got a little better. I could feel the difference between tight and painful compared to relaxed and completely painless. Well, not so much painful as quite uncomfortable.

I beat him 4-0 in games. They were all close. I took all the great advice I was given here and just narrowed it down to realistic things I can do. So during the game I thought:

Legs first then stroke, get in position.
Don't poke at the ball, swing at it.
Open slower and heavier very deep into his backhand if in doubt.
Step back a little and take it into a slower rally.
RELAX!


I had been doing some self hitting and just waving the bat around with a relaxed arm compared to a tensed arm prior, so I could even half do some of these. My footwork and strokes are not exactly good either but they were good enough that I could do something proactive instead of just reacting.

Sometimes I found myself tensing up or leaning into the ball, but often I could get into a slower, more spin oriented rally where I could keep form a little easier.

His punches were still fast but stepping back slightly more than normal and making sure to move my legs first helped in dealing with the time pressure. I experienced for myself that if you step first then do the stroke, you actually have more time than if you just leaned into it.

OSPH also talked about his difficulty punching backspin, so rarely I chopped or served long, higher backspin to his deep backhand and he netted them. He doesn't have the footwork to always pivot around and take a forehand. I also found that spinny slower shots placed DEEP are good, while spinny slower shots placed short on the table can get punched all the way to Peking.


The most notable thing about this is when I was down 3 - 7 and served my serve right into the back of the table putting me at 3 - 8.

I didn't accept giving up and I took him to 12 - 10. He started getting nervous when I was getting points off my attack and gave me more conservative serve returns that I could attack. I was in slight disbelief the entire time until 10 - 10.

He was very humble about his losses and I respect him for that. He kept trying as well. That's good.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Stick a lighter pips on your backhand side and you might even use that for your forehand if you prefer it. There is no reason to go double inverted coming from a light one-sided penhold.

Chatted last night with 42andbackpains, he thinks I may not like the short pips, as i've played very long with inverted. Despite starting off with pips, and my inverted game is mostly pips-type of game style, I'm going to borrow one of his old pips and try it out.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

you can potentially have some finger markings, which might be cool xD

Back in the 80's, a clubmate played PH with an oldschool blue pips - forgot color of sponge ... want to say orange... anyway, he was a 1900 player, had a huge FH smash and a BH smash... his grip though was unorthodox... on the back, he would spread his fingers like a martial arts tiger claw hand configuration... his fingernails would dig into the back ... back then, there was no rule about red/black. his blade's back was uncolored. You can clearly see 3 finger markings from his fingernails digging in ... DAYUM!

 

[NextLevel]

Chatted last night with 42andbackpains, he thinks I may not like the short pips, as i've played very long with inverted. Despite starting off with pips, and my inverted game is mostly pips-type of game style, I'm going to borrow one of his old pips and try it out.

That's really not the point. I don't like many things too. You actually seem like a pretty nice guy and you adapt to things over time. My guess is that if I gave you a screw driver to play with, you may hate it , but if forced to adapt to it, you would play well with it. It's a common mistake in TT to read too much into first impressions. What is really important is to take time to get an understanding of what possibilities you may have with what you use vs something else.

For example, if you twiddled or could play equally well on some strokes with inverted and pips, then the change up might hurt some opponents on blocks for example. In fact, a lot of my game is a short pips game - the reason I don't use it is that I loop too much on my backhand and I can't use short strokes on my forehand.