Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[OvrChkn]

While it has limitations as a tool, try to use your swing trajectory as a guide for the ball. In broad terms, the shape of your stroke should guide the ball and also be used to adjust to the incoming spin.

As an upright player, I can speak about the value of being upright vs getting lower. The main value is being able to start below the ball for most strokes in order to get decent topspin. Because I have long arms, I can get away with being a bit more upright than I should be. However, nothing in life is free - when you are lower, your swing trajectories can have a more natural forward component than they would when you are upright, where more of your momentum will be upwards. That said, you can compensate for the swing planes. But you have to be aware of the tradeoffs because even as upright as I usually play, I sometimes have to get lower for service return and third balls against a certain kind/level of player as I can't generate the quality I need to against their ball trajectories or spin quality without it.

The benefits of being low noted, I point this out because I see many players beating themselves up over playing upright, but not realizing that a lot of it can be compensated by adjusting your swing trajectory if you have the right mindset. And to me, many people who start learning later, especially with some of the issues you can get trying to stay low, should just learn to compensated with reasonable swing trajectories so that they don't find playing table tennis too painful. But to each his own, just need to help people be aware that you can play decent table tennis without being low all the time, though there are limits on what you can do with low balls when you are not now relative to the table.

The stroke trajectory is something that I'll try out for sure.

Amazingly, my legs aren't as nearly as sore as my back, but having my technique being based on staying low is something that's in the back of my mind as I get older.

 

[NextLevel]

The stroke trajectory is something that I'll try out for sure.

Amazingly, my legs aren't as nearly as sore as my back, but having my technique being based on staying low is something that's in the back of my mind as I get older.

Yes, it is the back muscles, especially the lower back muscles, that get challenged the most. Some of it is because many people lose control of the glutes as they age, but some of it is just not being used to being low - you also have to avoid using the spine incorrectly to compensate for not being low enough. But just think conceptually of the stroke as a swing plane/trajectory that adjusts to the ball. How you produce it ideally is standard technique, but if you can't do the standard for some reason, find something that approximates it with a combination of standard technique and other adjustments. As long as it isn't completely terrible, you can always adjust it towards the gold standard as you train more and more.

 

[OvrChkn]

Yes, it is the back muscles, especially the lower back muscles, that get challenged the most. Some of it is because many people lose control of the glutes as they age, but some of it is just not being used to being low - you also have to avoid using the spine incorrectly to compensate for not being low enough. But just think conceptually of the stroke as a swing plane/trajectory that adjusts to the ball. How you produce it ideally is standard technique, but if you can't do the standard for some reason, find something that approximates it with a combination of standard technique and other adjustments. As long as it isn't completely terrible, you can always adjust it towards the gold standard as you train more and more.

I used to be able to consistently stay in a lower stance during high school athletics, but it's definitely been a while.

 

[blahness]

I used to be able to consistently stay in a lower stance during high school athletics, but it's definitely been a while.

Have you tried simply widening your stance instead of squatting lower? For me it is more relaxing this way, squatting is really tiring for me too. Fan Zhendong and ZJK squat a lot but they have some massive quads.

Also you can bend forwards at the hips a bit to get lower too which doesn't cost a lot. Bending from lower back is a big no no as it is a source of many injuries I see around me.

 

[blahness]

Give a short try at loosening the hand grip pressure, shortening the swing, and letting the ball come to you a tiny moar.

Yeah that could be a factor, long hours behind the keyboard just results in tight forearm gripping muscles

 

[OvrChkn]

Have you tried simply widening your stance instead of squatting lower? For me it is more relaxing this way, squatting is really tiring for me too. Fan Zhendong and ZJK squat a lot but they have some massive quads.

Also you can bend forwards at the hips a bit to get lower too which doesn't cost a lot. Bending from lower back is a big no no as it is a source of many injuries I see around me.

I get pretty stuck when widening my stance, like I just can't move. I might have to play around with it more, but I tend to reach with my arms a lot more if I play it wider. Hinging puts a bit of pressure on my lower back.

When I got tired, I ended up doing a weird front squat stance to compensate for how tired my back was getting. It looked like I was doing a martial arts stance.

This issue seemed to persist when playing close to the table, but it seemed like I can probably get away with being slightly higher up if I can position myself to mid-range during a match, if that makes sense.

 

[NextLevel]

I get pretty stuck when widening my stance, like I just can't move. I might have to play around with it more, but I tend to reach with my arms a lot more if I play it wider. Hinging puts a bit of pressure on my lower back.

When I got tired, I ended up doing a weird front squat stance to compensate for how tired my back was getting. It looked like I was doing a martial arts stance.

This issue seemed to persist when playing close to the table, but it seemed like I can probably get away with being slightly higher up if I can position myself to mid-range during a match, if that makes sense.

Shoulder width is the basic requirement. One thing though is that the muscles for getting low and getting wide are different. If you have good joints, doing wall sits and squats in both positions is helpful. In general, a lot of stuff in TT requires you to build the muscles to support things or you will just end up wondering why the eff your body should be doing this or that.

 

[blahness]

I get pretty stuck when widening my stance, like I just can't move. I might have to play around with it more, but I tend to reach with my arms a lot more if I play it wider. Hinging puts a bit of pressure on my lower back.

When I got tired, I ended up doing a weird front squat stance to compensate for how tired my back was getting. It looked like I was doing a martial arts stance.

This issue seemed to persist when playing close to the table, but it seemed like I can probably get away with being slightly higher up if I can position myself to mid-range during a match, if that makes sense.

In that case you can simply start farther away from the table by default, and don't bother with too much close table play, you can always lunge in to deal with short balls to send them long and then play the long ball battle. Samsonov kinda does this.

 

[JeffM]

The comp is this weekend.
Over the last 3 weeks, I have placed an emphasis to train, but it does not seem to work. At max, I get to play twice a week, but last week I only managed once.
Today I played in my usual club, and I lost to someone whom I never lost to previously. Perhaps he has improved, but I was always able to win with a margin. Today, I lost 4-3, last set I got behind quite a bit, I closed up the gap but lost by 2 points.

Throughout the night, I tried to hype myself up, trying to take the matches more seriously, I got some good bh shots, but it doesn't seem to work very well. I am getting some nice bh shots in, but my fh has lost its threat.
I am hoping to be able to do safety loops, like loops that are loaded with spin, but now I am doing half fast half slow, which is the worst.

Tomorrow I have my final tt session before the competition. It will be at a nearby town. I will meet up with their best player to train 2 hrs by ourselves, have a meal, then play in their usual club session for 2 hours.
I am sort of feeling bit desperate, bit worried that I won't be able to find my fh back before the competition.
Does anyone have any advice as to how to find my lost fh?

 

[Wrighty67]

The comp is this weekend.
Over the last 3 weeks, I have placed an emphasis to train, but it does not seem to work. At max, I get to play twice a week, but last week I only managed once.
Today I played in my usual club, and I lost to someone whom I never lost to previously. Perhaps he has improved, but I was always able to win with a margin. Today, I lost 4-3, last set I got behind quite a bit, I closed up the gap but lost by 2 points.

Throughout the night, I tried to hype myself up, trying to take the matches more seriously, I got some good bh shots, but it doesn't seem to work very well. I am getting some nice bh shots in, but my fh has lost its threat.
I am hoping to be able to do safety loops, like loops that are loaded with spin, but now I am doing half fast half slow, which is the worst.

Tomorrow I have my final tt session before the competition. It will be at a nearby town. I will meet up with their best player to train 2 hrs by ourselves, have a meal, then play in their usual club session for 2 hours.
I am sort of feeling bit desperate, bit worried that I won't be able to find my fh back before the competition.
Does anyone have any advice as to how to find my lost fh?

That's a tough place to be for you. My advice, for what it's worth, is that it's too late to do much technically, and my focus would be on building confidence back up and finding opportunities to hit your best FH shots - look for ways in which you can set this up and get the ball you need to hit with confidence. I lost some of my confidence through training and building my game back up, and in so doing losing matches I would otherwise have one - it's a long game..

 

[Der_Echte]

Wrighty is RIGHT, pun intended, but true.

You will not be able to suddenly develop some shot or shots to be match ready with this small amount of time remaining, it is way more profitable to focus on getting the mental performance ready to go.

THAT is achievable and about the only practical thing you can do besides ensuring your sleep, nutrition, hydration, and mineralization are there and you have stuff to maintain them tourney day.

 

[NextLevel]

The comp is this weekend.
Over the last 3 weeks, I have placed an emphasis to train, but it does not seem to work. At max, I get to play twice a week, but last week I only managed once.
Today I played in my usual club, and I lost to someone whom I never lost to previously. Perhaps he has improved, but I was always able to win with a margin. Today, I lost 4-3, last set I got behind quite a bit, I closed up the gap but lost by 2 points.

Throughout the night, I tried to hype myself up, trying to take the matches more seriously, I got some good bh shots, but it doesn't seem to work very well. I am getting some nice bh shots in, but my fh has lost its threat.
I am hoping to be able to do safety loops, like loops that are loaded with spin, but now I am doing half fast half slow, which is the worst.

Tomorrow I have my final tt session before the competition. It will be at a nearby town. I will meet up with their best player to train 2 hrs by ourselves, have a meal, then play in their usual club session for 2 hours.
I am sort of feeling bit desperate, bit worried that I won't be able to find my fh back before the competition.
Does anyone have any advice as to how to find my lost fh?

Management by results is a dangerous thing, and technical training always interferes with competitive strokes. If you are preparing for a tournament, play matches. If you want to evolve your technique to be better in 6 to 12 months time, train and let the gains accumulate. But training in the short term for short term competition is usually not the way to go unless you are a mature player trying to keep a certain level of sharpness.

The thing about losing to one player in a given match is that unless you are beating them really badly all the time, they are always in your range. So it is always good to be realistic about what it means to be able to beat someone and to know that on bad days, any result is possible against a good player. I have lost more than my fair share of such matches, even lost one this past weekend. But it has helped me see that maybe I need to train into my game sharper point ending weapons. But do I really want to expend the physical energy that may require? We will see....

A lot of good table tennis is easier to play once one fears losing but also accepts it as part of good competition. I found that fearing losing paralyzed you in the face of the risk taking required to win. So pumping yourself up might make the problem worse. I think it is better to accept that this is not a good day, try out different things in terms of point patterns that might give you positive results (ideally things you have practiced like serve short to forehand, push long to backhand, or serve long to backhand and go to the forehand), things that might throw the opponent off if the prior point patterns have put them in a rhythm. No need to pump yourself up - just use strategies that you know work.

And if you lose, everyone loses. But the anxiety of losing should not make you play worse, it should make your remember why you are trying. The acceptance of some things and looking for tools and strategies to reduce the pressure a certain point pattern is putting on your is usually a better route to go.

 

[blahness]

The comp is this weekend.
Over the last 3 weeks, I have placed an emphasis to train, but it does not seem to work. At max, I get to play twice a week, but last week I only managed once.
Today I played in my usual club, and I lost to someone whom I never lost to previously. Perhaps he has improved, but I was always able to win with a margin. Today, I lost 4-3, last set I got behind quite a bit, I closed up the gap but lost by 2 points.

Throughout the night, I tried to hype myself up, trying to take the matches more seriously, I got some good bh shots, but it doesn't seem to work very well. I am getting some nice bh shots in, but my fh has lost its threat.
I am hoping to be able to do safety loops, like loops that are loaded with spin, but now I am doing half fast half slow, which is the worst.

Tomorrow I have my final tt session before the competition. It will be at a nearby town. I will meet up with their best player to train 2 hrs by ourselves, have a meal, then play in their usual club session for 2 hours.
I am sort of feeling bit desperate, bit worried that I won't be able to find my fh back before the competition.
Does anyone have any advice as to how to find my lost fh?

It sounds like it is because you lost the spin feeling, and you might be rushing a bit. Once you lose spin feeling everything goes to crap (I had that experience recently), because you lost the margin of safety due to the Magnus effect of topspin dragging the ball down towards the table.

I can only diagnose the issue but I got no solutions either on some days when I have the spin feeling in I feel like I can do no wrong and it's easy to land everything on the table, and some days I just hit everything long or into the net due to the lack of topspin in my loops. The mistakes add up, and then you get more nervous and it makes the spin feeling even worse, and down in the vicious cycle you go.

 

[JeffM]

Thanks for the replies.
That is a bit depressing.

I will go and practice today, it will be the longest session that I have had since the move. 2hr individual practice then dinner and then 2 hr of club play.

I will see how I feel. I will try and adjust my mentality into accepting what it is and try work around it.
The club session will involve practicing doubles, as 3/6 of my events will be doubles.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

I recalled hearing an online Chinese coach said to this effect, " If your are tired or your strokes seems to be getting worse for whatever reasons, stop doing that exercise / drill and do something else before the incorrect muscle memory sets in "

I also remember my own personal coach, even if he does not say it out loud, whenever I start to suck at a particular drill no matter what correction he says, he will stop me and go on to do something else.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

@JeffM no session is ever perfect. There is always something to be unhappy about. I think you are just being too stressed. You seem to be expecting too much for this competition and putting yourself too much pressure.

If I were you I wouldn’t practice before the competition and go running or swimming or going to the gym instead to change ideas and to get in good shape.

 

[JJ Ng]

I recalled hearing an online Chinese coach said to this effect, " If your are tired or your strokes seems to be getting worse for whatever reasons, stop doing that exercise / drills and do something else before the incorrect muscle memory sets in "

I also remember my own personal coach, even if he does not say it out loud, whenever I start to sucks at a particular drill no matter what correction he says, he will stop me and go on to do something else.

Agree. Some coaches run me ragged during multi-ball training and they wanted me to keep going. I am like, what's the point? I will just pick up bad habits. I did pick up a few bad habits when I was growing up, training, and those habits continue to plague me. Some coaches, once they see that you are running ragged, will switch up the drills and ask you to do backhand blocks or some simple stuff. Yes, those coaches get it....

 

[JeffM]

@JeffM no session is ever perfect. There is always something to be unhappy about. I think you are just being too stressed. You seem to be expecting too much for this competition and putting yourself too much pressure.

If I were you I wouldn’t practice before the competition and go running or swimming or going to the gym instead to change ideas and to get in good shape.

I think you are right.

I did go to gym on Monday.
I played Tues (2hr) and today (4 hr). I feel better in my fh now but there are still shots that I am missing which I felt I shouldn't. But it is what it is. I won't be playing until the actual comp on Saturday.

 

[NextLevel]

I think you are right.

I did go to gym on Monday.
I played Tues (2hr) and today (4 hr). I feel better in my fh now but there are still shots that I am missing which I felt I shouldn't. But it is what it is. I won't be playing until the actual comp on Saturday.

Are you recording these sessions that are giving you trouble?

 

[blahness]

Got pissed off about my sudden lack of spin generation on the FH and decided to really take a look at it. I figured out how to reliably spin the ball with just the finger actions (first joint of index finger pressing down on the left side of the BH rubber, thumb pressing on the left side of the FH rubber to create a lever arm).

Also I think I played better with the Viscaria than the Harimoto ALC which is just a tad too slow for my liking, I'm losing a lot of rallies due to the lack of speed (Viscaria really helps when I'm in a bad position in terms of pace generation). I also dislike the balance on the Harimoto ALC, imo Viscaria really got the balance right. Sure short pushes are better on the Harimoto, but it's not like I push a lot anyway.... I very much prefer the chiquita/flick followed by strong two wing pressure looping after that.