Did Fan Zhendong lose to Harimoto on purpose? (Asian Cup 2018)

[zeio]

The discussion arises because there is suspicion of fixing and the possibility is there. It doesn't matter if there is no way of knowing the truth.

This is just like the World Cup 2012 when ML lost to CCY in the group and CCY had to lose to Crisan not 0-4, not 1-4, not 2-4, but 3-4 for ML to edge Crison out and advance to the main draw. That's another case of suspected fixing. It doesn't matter if we will know the truth or not. It's just that the circumstances made it likely and the possibility was there.

 

[WorkerBee]

The most common reason for throwing a game is for the dominant player, and his family and friends, to bet on the weaker opposing player and make a ton of money. Is this possible in table tennis? Of course the top player risks getting a broken arm and jail time. It was common in American baseball.

 

[zeio]

One thing we know for sure is that Harimoto took the 1st game. FZD took the 2nd game. That's about when LGY got his ass whooped by LSS.

 

[langel]

Well, guys, its a TT forum, but as I see the discussion is going on as in a political one.
Just look on the match, the way they play the final points and their mood. The final points of Harimoto are definite playouts, the last mistake of FZD is definitely meant to be a killer but allas.
Whats more, and maybe most important - I really think that FZD has neither the psychology needed for such a conspiracy, nor the actors skills.

 

[zeio]

This is why it's time to learn Chinese.

 

[rainneverever]

You really need to understand why Asian Cup matters and does not matter. Asian Cup is currently a qualification tournament for World Cup, that's why it matters. However, CNT Asian Cup winner does not always go to World Cup (I.e., 2015 winner XX, runner-up FZD and FZD went to WC); even if some CNT players did not make to Asian Cup final, he/she still can go to WC if World Champion withdrew. That's why the result of Asian Cup does not matter that much. And it is not a tournament with national flag raising.

Back to the question if FZD lost to TH on purpose when he saw LGY lost to LSS. You need to understand it was not the last group match. What if LGY broke down and lost his third group match and did not get to the KO stage? In this tournament, it is not FZD's business what LGY ended with.

 

[rainneverever]

This is why it's time to learn Chinese.

To learn common sense is more important than to learn Chinese at this point.

 

[langel]

I don't think that the non-chinese players will be better players if they learn chinese.
Knowing language may help political discussions, but the truth of this thread problem is in analying the match, not the brackets.

 

[zeio]

To learn common sense is more important than to learn Chinese at this point.

No, common sense could be misleading when people don't even know what they are reading is biased or not.

 

[zeio]

I don't think that the non-chinese players will be better players if they learn chinese.
Knowing language may help political discussions, but the truth of this thread problem is in analying the match, not the brackets.

Fukuhara, Ishikawa and now Hirano don't agree.

The first two speak Chinese. Hirano said just a few days ago she needs to learn Chinese to befriend with Chinese players in order to better understand table tennis.

The thing is that analyzing the match can't tell you everything. The draw allows the possibility of fixing and that is why we have this thread.

 

[tropical]

Back to the question if FZD lost to TH on purpose when he saw LGY lost to LSS. You need to understand it was not the last group match. What if LGY broke down and lost his third group match and did not get to the KO stage? In this tournament, it is not FZD's business what LGY ended with.

I see your point. Can I switch my vote?

 

[rainneverever]

Jeong Sangeun also speaks Chinese. He beat Chinese speaking TH, lost to Chinese speaking LGY and Korean speaking LSS lol

 

[tsunami902]

Harimoto is a pure 100% chinese for those who does not know....figure it out...

 

[zeio]

That's why there is a good chance he is a spy and he is there to sab0tage Japan. That explains his losing in the QF.

 

[tropical]

Harimoto is a pure 100% chinese for those who does not know....figure it out...

I look Asian but I am an American. This would be an insult to HT.

 

[Garrison]

Wonderkid can't melt FZD's quads?

I look Asian but I am an American. This would be an insult to HT.

Mmh both parents are chinese table tennis coaches so it is very likely that he was raised with the so called "chinese philosophy". I regard Harimoto as a transition player, first the chinese get beaten by a 1/2 foreigner and then they can be beaten by a foreign raised player.

 

[Baal]

This theory is based on 1) The Chinese players only lose when they want to. 2) No-one will ever develop tactics to consistently beat Chinese players. 3) Game-fixing is common in Chinese table tennis. 4) Chinese coaches have to maintain medal counts as their players and their whole system of recruiting and training is slipping, both for national prestige and for personal income. 5) Table Tennis has gone the way of professional sports, sinking into that pit of lies like Chinese pro soccer and US college basketball. 6) Table tennis sites will start to be covered with betting sites. 7)ITTF will change the clothing rules for women to make them wear underwear with centimeter minimums for cleavage and camel toe.

Very good post. A couple of comments on what WB just wrote.

Clearly Chinese players do occasionally lose to non-Chinese players. Not all that often it should be said. But they are not entirely invincible.

US college basketball is a cesspool, now being investigated by the FBI. But not for throwing matches! It is a bunch of other horrific stuff. The best thing the NBA can do is to enhance their G and D leagues to create a minor league system so that kids who have no reason to be in college (often for a single year for the best players) can forego the charade and just turn pro with a chance to make the NBA.

People assume that Chinese players fix matches but that seems to me to be based on practices from years ago. People always jump to that conclusion it is still going on but there is no good evidence for it (and no reason to think that chatter on Chinese websites is any more valid than chatter on any other internet forum). Something I have reason to think was going on very recently was listing players as younger than their actual age.

Table tennis in China is a professional sport. Players are more or less professional by their early teens. No reason to think they are immune to any of the things that other sports are subject to. There is a lot at stake. China produces about ten fold as many good players as will ever make a decent living at the sport.

Medal counts are one thing but there are also aspects of national histories. I repeat again that Chinese athletes will never willingly lose to a Japanese athlete in any sport. I could almost imagine it happening with a player from some other country. But Japan? And this particular player? No way I will ever believe it. (I spend a lot of time in China).

 

[Baal]

Harimoto is a pure 100% chinese for those who does not know....figure it out...

What is this supposed to mean? The kid was born in Japan. It is true that his parents were born in China and emigrated to Japan. Are you suggesting that Chinese players have some sort of intrinsic genetic advantage for table tennis that Japanese people (and anyone else) would not have? Nonsense. I will not write some of the more impolite things I am thinking about this comment. You can figure it out.

Now, the fact that his parents moved to Japan is likely to make Harimoto especially unpopular in China, especially when you add in his over the top cho-ing and such. I will be charitable and conclude that was the point you were making.

 

[zeio]

Our American friends getting offended at a comment made by a fellow American who probably doesn't even care.

 

[Free bird]

For those who believe fzd wouldn’t do it, you’re missing the point. It’s not that fzd wanted to do it it’s that the coach wanted him to do it. In fact fzd is the only loser here, harimoto got huge confidence boost and lavish appraisals, wanghao as a youg coach got both gold and silver, and LGY escaped from a devastating defeat that might very well ended his career as one of the main players. I despise the game fixing practice, but it might very well be the case here