Experience with some other Loki rubbers - Arthur China, GTX Pro (inc)

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Hey have you had a chance to test the Telson in the past few days?

Yeah I have -- and it's a beast 😎...but a fussy one in terms of blade choice.

Am currently head-down arse-up trying to finish a large order, otherwise I would have written a full review. I can however confirm the following:

- It"s fast ...like REALLY fast. And very, very spinny.

- Grippy jpanese style top sheet, that is marginally sticky when new. Won't lift a ball, but does contribute to spin.

- Hard tensor-style sponge (mine was 47.5 degrees, it also comes in 45 degrees).

- Currently only available in Red. Black rubbers coming very soon.

- Works on both FH & BH

- Have tried the rubber on the following blades:

1. a soft & springy three ply,
2. a hard, stiff & fast composite blade with basalt/flax hybrid inner layers (plays like ALC, but 'woodier')
3. A fast-ish balsa-cored 5 ply with hard but stretchy outers

All these blades are pretty quick as I personally go for slightly faster blades to provide speed as opposed to really fast rubbers (which explains why I had such trouble controlling the T100 actually 🤔)

I only played with it for 20 minutes or so thus far, so still getting used to it... But can still safely say the following:

- On all three blades I found managing the speed to be pretty difficult, but the rubber is most manageable on the balsa-cored all wood 5 ply. (Rated OFF -).

- Hard composite blade gave the most speed (crazy fast), but a stupidly low trajectory! No safety to it at all on this blade, so expect lots of net cords & long table misses

- on balsa blade (slowest of the three) trajectory is more manageable. Can lift the ball okay, better than AK47 anyway. Will try an ALL speed 5ply next -- most likely the best option for theis rubber.

- Great at loops, drives and smashes, when they hit the table. (Seriously, go control with your blade choice, nothing else seems to work for me personally)

- probably the fastest rubber Loki make. Definitely the best grippy rubber they've ever made to date, (though that's not saying much really. Haven't tried the LAD yet, so maybe that matches it)

- pleasing control in the short game, as very gentle pushes and serves feel quite dead.

- On the blades I tried it on, it had two speeds: very slow, and Warp One. (Better make that ALL blade one with limba outers actually 🤔🤔 ...the extra softness may help, as the harder the outer is, the faster and lower the rubber seems to go.

- Without doubt it's probably the best value for money grippy tensor-style rubber currently around, as the difference between this and a T05 is frankly pretty minimal. The T05 is still a better rubber, but it's not a huge performance gap, except maybe in the control stakes. For spin and speed it lacks nothing, and at its current price it's exceptional value.

...but seriously -- if anyone out there finds a blade that cam make this thing more manageable, please let me know. Currently only available in Max, which is a pain, as the rubber is too good and too cheap to ignore it completely, but also too fast and too wild for me to use with any of my normal go-to blades.

PS: forgot who asked, but it's DEFINITELY faster than an AK-47 Red, but not hugely so. The AK47R is my usual BH rubber and the Telson beats it for speed. AK has far more control however on all the above mentioned blades.
 
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Yeah I have -- and it's a beast 😎...but a fussy one in terms of blade choice.

Am currently head-down arse-up trying to finish a large order, otherwise I would have written a full review. I can however confirm the following:

- It"s fast ...like REALLY fast. And very, very spinny.

- Grippy jpanese style top sheet, that is marginally sticky when new. Won't lift a ball, but does contribute to spin.

- Hard tensor-style sponge (mine was 47.5 degrees, it also comes in 45 degrees).

- Currently only available in Red. Black rubbers coming very soon.

- Works on both FH & BH

- Have tried the rubber on the following blades:

1. a soft & springy three ply,
2. a hard, stiff & fast composite blade with basalt/flax hybrid inner layers (plays like ALC, but 'woodier')
3. A fast-ish balsa-cored 5 ply with hard but stretchy outers

All these blades are pretty quick as I personally go for slightly faster blades to provide speed as opposed to really fast rubbers (which explains why I had such trouble controlling the T100 actually 🤔)

I only played with it for 20 minutes or so thus far, so still getting used to it... But can still safely say the following:

- On all three blades I found managing the speed to be pretty difficult, but the rubber is most manageable on the balsa-cored all wood 5 ply. (Rated OFF -).

- Hard composite blade gave the most speed (crazy fast), but a stupidly low trajectory! No safety to it at all on this blade, so expect lots of net cords & long table misses

- on balsa blade (slowest of the three) trajectory is more manageable. Can lift the ball okay, better than AK47 anyway. Will try an ALL speed 5ply next -- most likely the best option for theis rubber.

- Great at loops, drives and smashes, when they hit the table. (Seriously, go control with your blade choice, nothing else seems to work for me personally)

- probably the fastest rubber Loki make. Definitely the best grippy rubber they've ever made to date, (though that's not saying much really. Haven't tried the LAD yet, so maybe that matches it)

- pleasing control in the short game, as very gentle pushes and serves feel quite dead.

- On the blades I tried it on, it had two speeds: very slow, and Warp One. (Better make that ALL blade one with limba outers actually 🤔🤔 ...the extra softness may help, as the harder the outer is, the faster and lower the rubber seems to go.

- Without doubt it's probably the best value for money grippy tensor-style rubber currently around, as the difference between this and a T05 is frankly pretty minimal. The T05 is still a better rubber, but it's not a huge performance gap, except maybe in the control stakes. For spin and speed it lacks nothing, and at its current price it's exceptional value.

...but seriously -- if anyone out there finds a blade that cam make this thing more manageable, please let me know. Currently only available in Max, which is a pain, as the rubber is too good and too cheap to ignore it completely, but also too fast and too wild for me to use with any of my normal go-to blades.

PS: forgot who asked, but it's DEFINITELY faster than an AK-47 Red, but not hugely so. The AK47R is my usual BH rubber and the Telson beats it for speed. AK has far more control however on all the above mentioned blades.
Promising review, I think it will be a direct competitor to DHS Goldarc 9 which comes out around the same time.

is telson's surface a lot more grippy than Ak47 red or similar? I tried AK47R before and I am not happy about with slipping issue.
 
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Promising review, I think it will be a direct competitor to DHS Goldarc 9 which comes out around the same time.

is telson's surface a lot more grippy than Ak47 red or similar? I tried AK47R before and I am not happy about with slipping issue.
Yeah - much better top-sheet than AK47 Blue and Red. I've used both those rubbers as blade test beds for ages. They're a good rubber for punching / driving / looping when the ball is above the table. Any lower than that however and you struggle with slippage, especially with the Red top sheet

The T100's top-sheet is significantly better. It isn't quite as grippy as top-emf rubbers like T05 or Powergrip SFX, but is still good quality and can lift low-balls pretty well. The sponge is really hard, but the top-sheet is surprisingly soft, so with a softer blade you can feel the top sheet wrapping around the ball.

On a stiffer blade with harder outers however, the catapult rakes over and dwell time dwindles to virtually nothing. You still get very good spin, but it's much harder to lift the ball, simply because the ball isn't in contact with the rubber for very long at all.

Go with an ALL rated All-wood blade, with limba outers, high control, high dwell time a little bit of flex to it, and this rubber should really come alive.
 
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Yeah - much better top-sheet than AK47 Blue and Red. I've used both those rubbers as blade test beds for ages. They're a good rubber for punching / driving / looping when the ball is above the table. Any lower than that however and you struggle with slippage, especially with the Red top sheet

The T100's top-sheet is significantly better. It isn't quite as grippy as top-emf rubbers like T05 or Powergrip SFX, but is still good quality and can lift low-balls pretty well. The sponge is really hard, but the top-sheet is surprisingly soft, so with a softer blade you can feel the top sheet wrapping around the ball.

On a stiffer blade with harder outers however, the catapult rakes over and dwell time dwindles to virtually nothing. You still get very good spin, but it's much harder to lift the ball, simply because the ball isn't in contact with the rubber for very long at all.

Go with an ALL rated All-wood blade, with limba outers, high control, high dwell time a little bit of flex to it, and this rubber should really come a

Yeah - much better top-sheet than AK47 Blue and Red. I've used both those rubbers as blade test beds for ages. They're a good rubber for punching / driving / looping when the ball is above the table. Any lower than that however and you struggle with slippage, especially with the Red top sheet

The T100's top-sheet is significantly better. It isn't quite as grippy as top-emf rubbers like T05 or Powergrip SFX, but is still good quality and can lift low-balls pretty well. The sponge is really hard, but the top-sheet is surprisingly soft, so with a softer blade you can feel the top sheet wrapping around the ball.

On a stiffer blade with harder outers however, the catapult rakes over and dwell time dwindles to virtually nothing. You still get very good spin, but it's much harder to lift the ball, simply because the ball isn't in contact with the rubber for very long at all.

Go with an ALL rated All-wood blade, with limba outers, high control, high dwell time a little bit of flex to it, and this rubber should really come alive.
Is Tibhar MXS spinnier than loki telson ?
 
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Is Tibhar MXS spinnier than loki telson ?
Haven't played with MXS in quite a while, but going purely from memory... yeah, they are reasonably equivalent in spin... Similar ballpark, if that helps.

They're only $35 Australian currently (which is what... 20 Euro? $24 USD? Or thereabouts?) I recommend people just grab one try it and see what they think -- it's gotta be some of the best value around currently, and going by the rubber quality they would probably last a while too. 🙂
.
 
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Yeah I have -- and it's a beast 😎...but a fussy one in terms of blade choice.

Am currently head-down arse-up trying to finish a large order, otherwise I would have written a full review. I can however confirm the following:

- It"s fast ...like REALLY fast. And very, very spinny.

- Grippy jpanese style top sheet, that is marginally sticky when new. Won't lift a ball, but does contribute to spin.

- Hard tensor-style sponge (mine was 47.5 degrees, it also comes in 45 degrees).

- Currently only available in Red. Black rubbers coming very soon.

- Works on both FH & BH

- Have tried the rubber on the following blades:

1. a soft & springy three ply,
2. a hard, stiff & fast composite blade with basalt/flax hybrid inner layers (plays like ALC, but 'woodier')
3. A fast-ish balsa-cored 5 ply with hard but stretchy outers

All these blades are pretty quick as I personally go for slightly faster blades to provide speed as opposed to really fast rubbers (which explains why I had such trouble controlling the T100 actually 🤔)

I only played with it for 20 minutes or so thus far, so still getting used to it... But can still safely say the following:

- On all three blades I found managing the speed to be pretty difficult, but the rubber is most manageable on the balsa-cored all wood 5 ply. (Rated OFF -).

- Hard composite blade gave the most speed (crazy fast), but a stupidly low trajectory! No safety to it at all on this blade, so expect lots of net cords & long table misses

- on balsa blade (slowest of the three) trajectory is more manageable. Can lift the ball okay, better than AK47 anyway. Will try an ALL speed 5ply next -- most likely the best option for theis rubber.

- Great at loops, drives and smashes, when they hit the table. (Seriously, go control with your blade choice, nothing else seems to work for me personally)

- probably the fastest rubber Loki make. Definitely the best grippy rubber they've ever made to date, (though that's not saying much really. Haven't tried the LAD yet, so maybe that matches it)

- pleasing control in the short game, as very gentle pushes and serves feel quite dead.

- On the blades I tried it on, it had two speeds: very slow, and Warp One. (Better make that ALL blade one with limba outers actually 🤔🤔 ...the extra softness may help, as the harder the outer is, the faster and lower the rubber seems to go.

- Without doubt it's probably the best value for money grippy tensor-style rubber currently around, as the difference between this and a T05 is frankly pretty minimal. The T05 is still a better rubber, but it's not a huge performance gap, except maybe in the control stakes. For spin and speed it lacks nothing, and at its current price it's exceptional value.

...but seriously -- if anyone out there finds a blade that cam make this thing more manageable, please let me know. Currently only available in Max, which is a pain, as the rubber is too good and too cheap to ignore it completely, but also too fast and too wild for me to use with any of my normal go-to blades.

PS: forgot who asked, but it's DEFINITELY faster than an AK-47 Red, but not hugely so. The AK47R is my usual BH rubber and the Telson beats it for speed. AK has far more control however on all the above mentioned blades.
So it's faster and spinnier than AK47? It sounds like it must be really good.

In what way is it less than T05? Is it same speed and catapult?
 
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So it's faster and spinnier than AK47? It sounds like it must be really good.

In what way is it less than T05? Is it same speed and catapult?
Probably the balance between top sheet & sponge really.... That, combined with gear balance.

Everyone's playing touch is different, but for me, what makes the T05 a great rubber is neither its top sheet or sponge dominate -- it's actually a really great teaming of materials. The T05 has high speed without overly sacrificing spin or control -- catapault effect doesn't override dwell time. Top sheet and sponge work together and compliment each other to provide high spin & speed while still being reasonably manageable at every distance.

The T100 I played with however is a little too reliant on its hard 47.5 degree sponge to generate speed. The catapult effect dominates proceedings a bit too much, so to some degree it's a rubber that ALWAYS emphasises speed, whether you want it or not. It's spin levels - while being very, very good - are rarely truly outstanding, whereas the T05 blends these two qualities far better.

It also lacks a few mid-range gears, or at least it has done for me so far. Blade choice really does make or break this rubber -- harder outers make it almost unplayable close to the table for all but the most skillful players. Softer flexier blades help tame it, but it's still a fussy beast. With the T05, I find you get almost the same performance regardless of what you strap it to.... The blade makes a difference with the T05 as well, but it not a huge one in most cases -- or at least, it's not the huge difference you can get with the T100.

Please don't see these as huge negatives or deal-breakers though, because really they're just things you need to adjust to.

Speed is probably the closest match a T100 has to a T05, and given its sponge, that's understandable When Loki say 47.5 degree sponge, they 'ain't kidding! Despite being a tensor style sponge, it's really pretty bloody firm stuff. Some at my club put it around 50 degrees, myself I think 47.5 is about right.

With the Rxton 3 Blue, and R3Pink, I always thought Loki's claims of 40 degree and 39 degree sponge were exaggerated (I always judged them at about 45 and 42 degrees myself). The T100 however establishes Loki's hardness scale is consistent. The T100 has *considerably* firmer sponge than the R3Blue, Pink and Pro. In a side by side pinch test, the blue's claims of 40 degree sponge feels about right. If you've played with a blue however you know how hard they feel in isolation.

I used the R3Blue on my Stargazer (ie: a hard, fast ALC-like attacking blade I manufacture) for several months, and I really loved the punchy feel, speed, spin and low ball trajectory I got with it. On the same blade, the T100 however takes all those qualities, and more than doubles them. Speed is bonkers, spin is excellent, trajectory off the blade is flat as a pancake.

It's not overstating it to say on my Stargazer, the T100 had literally the flattest rubber trajectory I've ever seen... You gotta take two steps back to even think about hitting the table with that combo, and even then, you're only JUST hitting the corners / end line. Plus unlike the R3 Blue, during a BH counter-hit / punch, there is NO dwell time on the rubber whatsoever... Literally blink and you'll miss it. On a hard stiff composite blades, the T100's catapult is just crazy -- higher than a standard T05. With the R3Blue, my standard BH counter is a quick spinny punch. With the T100, it's a goddam bullet.

What's remarkable about the T100 though, is that even with that tiny dwell time on a BH punch, spin is still more than reasonable. It also is very controllable when pushing during the short game, due to that dead-bounce feeling on low impact shots I described earlier. The pimple diameter seems pretty wide for a Loki rubber, and the pimple spacing seems pretty tight, which partially explains the dead-push thing -- it's not in Rasanter territory in regard to pimple structure, but it's getting close.

It's got a genuine Japanese-style top sheet no question, though frankly I couldn't say whose. It's a firmer top-sheet than on my Victas VJ 07 Stiff or Rakza 07 Soft, and is very elastic. The top sheet material also seems a bit... I dunno... *tighter* than that of my Glazner, Roenza, T05 or Dignics test sheets (though granted they're all pretty worn out now) so I don't think it's a Butterfly top sheet either (I also can't conceive of Butterfly licensing out their top-sheet tech to anybody!)

Maybe it's a Nittaku design?? I initially thought it similar to a Hammond Z2 due to the waves on the top sheet (something I've since been told was a Loki thing) and while I've never played with a HZ2, the descriptions of their speed, spin and hardness still really seem to fit, (as does the general ball trajectory I've seen in review videos.)

The only other rubber I've seen behave like the T100 is the TCore Master 47 -- a hard-sponged spinny rocket launcher from Korea. Again I've not tried one myself, but I. The review vid I saw, it had the same super-flat trajectory on hard punchy hits.

Just to be clear, you CAN get really high trajectory loops with the thing. I know I'm repeating myself, but you just really do need a slower all-wood blade with more dwell time to it with this rubber... In that respect it's the fussiest rubber I've come across in ages.

Once I fitted the rubber to my Yabbie and switched the T100 to my FH, it was a very different story. Looping away from the table with it was an absolute joy

(NB: for reference purposes, the Wakkibat Yabbie is an attacking all-wood blade I make, with a balsa core and Tassie Oak outers. They're a coarser-grained, softer & far more elastic outer wood than the Tassie Blackwood I use on my Stargazer, so the dwell time is higher. It plays a bit like a faster Donic Cayman but is very linear and well behaved, without any balsa effect.)

This rubber really does have potential, so at some point I'll probably revisit this rubber for my own personal game, and try to find a blade in my collection of IP that suits it a bit better than the Yabbie. For now however I'll leave it be, as I currently have far too much work on my plate to devote to my own game 😂😂 The Veterans world champs are coming up quick and I have orders up to my ears, so don't be surprised folks if you don't hear from me for a while 🤣🤣
 
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Probably the balance between top sheet & sponge really.... That, combined with gear balance.

Everyone's playing touch is different, but for me, what makes the T05 a great rubber is neither its top sheet or sponge dominate -- it's actually a really great teaming of materials. The T05 has high speed without overly sacrificing spin or control -- catapault effect doesn't override dwell time. Top sheet and sponge work together and compliment each other to provide high spin & speed while still being reasonably manageable at every distance.

The T100 I played with however is a little too reliant on its hard 47.5 degree sponge to generate speed. The catapult effect dominates proceedings a bit too much, so to some degree it's a rubber that ALWAYS emphasises speed, whether you want it or not. It's spin levels - while being very, very good - are rarely truly outstanding, whereas the T05 blends these two qualities far better.

It also lacks a few mid-range gears, or at least it has done for me so far. Blade choice really does make or break this rubber -- harder outers make it almost unplayable close to the table for all but the most skillful players. Softer flexier blades help tame it, but it's still a fussy beast. With the T05, I find you get almost the same performance regardless of what you strap it to.... The blade makes a difference with the T05 as well, but it not a huge one in most cases -- or at least, it's not the huge difference you can get with the T100.

Please don't see these as huge negatives or deal-breakers though, because really they're just things you need to adjust to.

Speed is probably the closest match a T100 has to a T05, and given its sponge, that's understandable When Loki say 47.5 degree sponge, they 'ain't kidding! Despite being a tensor style sponge, it's really pretty bloody firm stuff. Some at my club put it around 50 degrees, myself I think 47.5 is about right.

With the Rxton 3 Blue, and R3Pink, I always thought Loki's claims of 40 degree and 39 degree sponge were exaggerated (I always judged them at about 45 and 42 degrees myself). The T100 however establishes Loki's hardness scale is consistent. The T100 has *considerably* firmer sponge than the R3Blue, Pink and Pro. In a side by side pinch test, the blue's claims of 40 degree sponge feels about right. If you've played with a blue however you know how hard they feel in isolation.

I used the R3Blue on my Stargazer (ie: a hard, fast ALC-like attacking blade I manufacture) for several months, and I really loved the punchy feel, speed, spin and low ball trajectory I got with it. On the same blade, the T100 however takes all those qualities, and more than doubles them. Speed is bonkers, spin is excellent, trajectory off the blade is flat as a pancake.

It's not overstating it to say on my Stargazer, the T100 had literally the flattest rubber trajectory I've ever seen... You gotta take two steps back to even think about hitting the table with that combo, and even then, you're only JUST hitting the corners / end line. Plus unlike the R3 Blue, during a BH counter-hit / punch, there is NO dwell time on the rubber whatsoever... Literally blink and you'll miss it. On a hard stiff composite blades, the T100's catapult is just crazy -- higher than a standard T05. With the R3Blue, my standard BH counter is a quick spinny punch. With the T100, it's a goddam bullet.

What's remarkable about the T100 though, is that even with that tiny dwell time on a BH punch, spin is still more than reasonable. It also is very controllable when pushing during the short game, due to that dead-bounce feeling on low impact shots I described earlier. The pimple diameter seems pretty wide for a Loki rubber, and the pimple spacing seems pretty tight, which partially explains the dead-push thing -- it's not in Rasanter territory in regard to pimple structure, but it's getting close.

It's got a genuine Japanese-style top sheet no question, though frankly I couldn't say whose. It's a firmer top-sheet than on my Victas VJ 07 Stiff or Rakza 07 Soft, and is very elastic. The top sheet material also seems a bit... I dunno... *tighter* than that of my Glazner, Roenza, T05 or Dignics test sheets (though granted they're all pretty worn out now) so I don't think it's a Butterfly top sheet either (I also can't conceive of Butterfly licensing out their top-sheet tech to anybody!)

Maybe it's a Nittaku design?? I initially thought it similar to a Hammond Z2 due to the waves on the top sheet (something I've since been told was a Loki thing) and while I've never played with a HZ2, the descriptions of their speed, spin and hardness still really seem to fit, (as does the general ball trajectory I've seen in review videos.)

The only other rubber I've seen behave like the T100 is the TCore Master 47 -- a hard-sponged spinny rocket launcher from Korea. Again I've not tried one myself, but I. The review vid I saw, it had the same super-flat trajectory on hard punchy hits.

Just to be clear, you CAN get really high trajectory loops with the thing. I know I'm repeating myself, but you just really do need a slower all-wood blade with more dwell time to it with this rubber... In that respect it's the fussiest rubber I've come across in ages.

Once I fitted the rubber to my Yabbie and switched the T100 to my FH, it was a very different story. Looping away from the table with it was an absolute joy

(NB: for reference purposes, the Wakkibat Yabbie is an attacking all-wood blade I make, with a balsa core and Tassie Oak outers. They're a coarser-grained, softer & far more elastic outer wood than the Tassie Blackwood I use on my Stargazer, so the dwell time is higher. It plays a bit like a faster Donic Cayman but is very linear and well behaved, without any balsa effect.)

This rubber really does have potential, so at some point I'll probably revisit this rubber for my own personal game, and try to find a blade in my collection of IP that suits it a bit better than the Yabbie. For now however I'll leave it be, as I currently have far too much work on my plate to devote to my own game 😂😂 The Veterans world champs are coming up quick and I have orders up to my ears, so don't be surprised folks if you don't hear from me for a while 🤣🤣
I think you may be confused. The Loki rxton 3 rubbers use the Chinese hardness scale.

The Telson is on the Euro scale.
 
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Fair enough 🙂 The T100 is still much harder than the R3P, R3B and R3Pro though.
Are we talking about a "feeling" when we talk about hardness or are we talking about a measured quantity ?
This is one reason why Loki kinda pisses me off. (Not limited to Loki ) I just checked my "pinky" and it says H39, so it should be harder than the T100 but is it ?????
The pinky, H39 is also harder than the R3Pro which is allegedly a A40 .

It is all just fantasy numbers and here I finally have to concede, Igor is right, the sponges should have their separate qualification and then the rubbers as a whole should also have a measured figure.
 
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Are we talking about a "feeling" when we talk about hardness or are we talking about a measured quantity ?
This is one reason why Loki kinda pisses me off. (Not limited to Loki ) I just checked my "pinky" and it says H39, so it should be harder than the T100 but is it ?????
The pinky, H39 is also harder than the R3Pro which is allegedly a A40 .

It is all just fantasy numbers and here I finally have to concede, Igor is right, the sponges should have their separate qualification and then the rubbers as a whole should also have a measured figure.
If Loki pisses you off in this regard then every other manufacturer should.

Some examples: Nittaku S-1 marketed as 45d sponge when it's actually 41-42d. Xiom Vega Euro marketed as 42.5d when many are under 40d.

Incorrect hardness ratings are probably rampant in the entire industry. You're probably just hyperfocused on Loki because they're coming out with so many new rubbers and we are currently trying to figure out there characteristics. Whereas more popular established rubbers may have been incorrectly listed for years without anyone noticeing.

You can get a durometer for $15 on aliexpress and know for sure. Or, you can continue to go on 'feel' alone. In the end, how it feels when playing should be more important on an individual level anyway. For example with Waki, he thinks this T100 is harder than R3 Blue for sure. But R3 Blue and Pink have the exact same 52-53d sponge. It is very unlikely that T100 has a ~55d sponge which would make it noticeably harder in actuality to Waki. In the end if it 'feels softer' based on how he's playing then that's what matters to him.

And then you got issues when it comes to quality control coming into play as well, especially with newly released bargain rubbers that might change with each batch (as you experienced with Loki Rxton V).
 
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read !!! that is why i said not limited to loki
Yeah I know, I'm just pointing out the reason why you have particular issues with Loki atm. It's more to due with them putting out new rubbers that are good and cheap enough to consider buying. We don't question the ratings of manufacturers that have established best sellers because they are familiar. They're probably also wrong too.

The more important point of my post was to try convince you that the exact hardness 'value' can't be determined without a measurement device and that discussing hardness 'feeling' online probably isn't going to give results, having a lot do with the specific sheet that person has mixed with their specific play style and other things personal to them. Did I make any ground on that argument?
 
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Currently i think every manufacturer adds to that shitshow.
Just recently i found a seller that actually gave me the range of Yasaka Rakza Z. I mean that is a 40-55€ rubber, and its range was listed between 47(which it should have) to 53 (which is the starting range of the extra hard version of the rubber). Sorry but im quite certain that you would instantly feel the 50+ version and would have the need to adjust.

A range around 2 degrees would probably be irrelevant but up to 6?

If that is the difference between other manufacturers and butterfly then i might have to change my oppinion on them^^ that could easily justify the prices, although i still think rubber prices are way over board.

Or i just stick with chinese stuff, buy in bulks and start meassuring them
 
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Or i just stick with chinese stuff, buy in bulks and start meassuring them
I followed this system, the problem is when you suddenly decide on a "better suitable" new rubber you end up with a whole stack of rubbers that neither you nor anybody else wants .
 
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Apr 2021
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I followed this system, the problem is when you suddenly decide on a "better suitable" new rubber you end up with a whole stack of rubbers that neither you nor anybody else wants .
in the past for some reasons I disliked H3 because everybody else is using it, so I tried a bunch of Chinese rubbers - Battle 2 , TG2, TG3, Bloom Power, Dianchi, Beijing, G666, etc.. to find a cheaper but better H3. But ironically now I ended up with 2 H3 on both sides..
 
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Are we talking about a "feeling" when we talk about hardness or are we talking about a measured quantity ?
This is one reason why Loki kinda pisses me off. (Not limited to Loki ) I just checked my "pinky" and it says H39, so it should be harder than the T100 but is it ?????
The pinky, H39 is also harder than the R3Pro which is allegedly a A40 .

It is all just fantasy numbers and here I finally have to concede, Igor is right, the sponges should have their separate qualification and then the rubbers as a whole should also have a measured figure.
Honestly couldn't tell you if it's the same scale or not. I assumed it was.

Honestly though, on that point generally, I don't see why Loki would deliberately use two different hardness scales for their rubbers without declaring it. So far as I can tell, they're trying very hard to improve their products and lift sales. Why then jeopardise those efforts by confusing customers who are going to do their own comparisons anyway?

Yes, the T100 is a lot harder than the R3 Pink. When comparing them, the playing feel of the T100 is definitely harder. My finger pinch test also says it's a lot harder. Loki's listed hardness of 47.5 degrees also suggests that it's significantly harder too, to a degree that reinforces my pinch test and playing test results... and that's good enough for me 😎 (To get more precise results I'd need to send it to a lab 🤣🤣 Happy to do it, if you're willing to pay the bill 😜 ).
 
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