German Open 2017

[RidTheKid]

Eat healthy and hit the gym

I'd like some of this elixir too

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

congrats to Ishikawa for once, beating a Chinese player of the CNT... even if its only the bench girl...
she's preventing an all-Chinese Sunday in this Ladies tournament

 

[rainneverever]

Come on, Wu Yang is the defending German Open champion and perhaps the best current female defensive player. It is impressive that Kasumi Ishikawa beat her. Wu Yang complained on her Weibo that she wants to play attacking style after the ball change lol

congrats to Ishikawa for once, beating a Chinese player of the CNT... even if its only the bench girl...
she's preventing an all-Chinese Sunday in this Ladies tournament

 

[NextLevel]

congrats to Ishikawa for once, beating a Chinese player of the CNT... even if its only the bench girl...
she's preventing an all-Chinese Sunday in this Ladies tournament

Ishikawa beat Yang in 2014 as well.

Ishikawa is good vs defence, if she can beat Han Ying, she can beat Wu Yang. The loss to the PRK defender was the heart breaker of her career.

 

[JesperStef]

Results from Day 5 (Sat 11 November 2017)

Men's Singles

Round of 16:

Fan Zhendong (#1 seed) 4:0 Zhou Yu (11:4, 11:8, 11:4, 11:8)
Kenta Matsudaira (#10) 4:1 Jeong Sangeun (11:13, 11:8, 11:7, 11:8, 11:5)

Tiago Apolonia 2:4 Wong Chun Ting (#9) (3:11, 11:8, 12:14, 11:9, 10:12, 4:11)
Yan An (#15) 0:4 Dimitrij Ovtcharov (#3) (8:11, 8:11, 5:11, 6:11)

Timo Boll (#4) 4:1 Simon Gauzy (#11) (6:11, 12:10, 11:9, 11:7, 11:2)
Chuang Chih-Yuan (#13) 0:4 Lin Gaoyuan (#8) (6:11, 9:11, 6:11, 10:12)

Jun Mizutani (#6) 3:4 Lee Sangsu (#14) (3:11, 7:11, 11:4, 12:10, 11:9, 8:11, 14:16)
Marcos Freitas 3:4 Xu Xin (#2) (8:11, 14:12, 10:12, 11:7, 8:11, 11:7, 7:11)


Quarter-finals:

Fan Zhendong (#1) 4:1 Kenta Matsudaira (#10) (11:8, 11:6, 11:5, 8:11, 11:9)
Wong Chun Ting (#9) 2:4 Dimitrij Ovtcharov (#3) (1:11, 11:5, 5:11, 11:7, 4:11, 3:11)

Timo Boll (#4) 4:1 Lin Gaoyuan (#8) (11:7, 11:9, 13:15, 11:7, 14:12)
Lee Sangsu (#14) 4:0 Xu Xin (#2) (11:6, 11:9, 11:4, 12:10)


Women's Singles

Quarter-finals:

Zhu Yuling (#1) 4:2 Wang Manyu (#8) (10:12, 11:7, 11:6, 11:9, 8:11, 11:6)
Wu Yang (#12) 0:4 Kasumi Ishikawa (#3) (4:11, 7:11, 8:11, 3:11)

Feng Yalan 4:1 Mima Ito (#5) (6:11, 15:13, 11:4, 11:7, 11:9)
Chen Ke 3:4 Chen Meng (#2) (11:9, 4:11, 5:11, 11:9, 11:6, 5:11, 12:14)


Men's Doubles

Semi-finals:

Yu Ziyang/Lam Siu Hang 1:3 Jeoung Youngsik/Lee Sangsu (#3) (5:11, 8:11, 11:1, 3:11)
Ho Kwan Kit/Wong Chun Ting (#6) 0:3 Tomokazu Harimoto/Yuto Kizukuri (13:15, 2:11, 4:11)


Women's Doubles

Semi-finals:

Doo Hoi Kem/Lee Ho Ching (#1) 2:3 Chen Szu-Yu/Cheng I-Ching (#6) (3:11, 11:6, 11:9, 8:11, 8:11)
Hina Hayata/Miu Hirano (#5) 3:2 Gu Yuting/Minnie Soo Wai Yam (11:7, 3:11, 10:12, 11:6, 11:7)

 

[Garrison]

Timo!!!! I couldn't watch it live sadly -.- Gonna check out the video now. Can we do it? 2 germans in the final again :O

 

[ajtatosmano2]

Ma Long like: 'Oh nooo, now I have to participate in every single tournament this year because they can't make it without me... Everyone else should just go to the basement...maybe FZD for training partner'
Congratulations to Dima and Timo!

 

[Suga D]

Come on, Wu Yang is the defending German Open champion and perhaps the best current female defensive player. It is impressive that Kasumi Ishikawa beat her. Wu Yang complained on her Weibo that she wants to play attacking style after the ball change lol

I don't think it all can be blamed on the new generation of balls.
As one can see Ruwen Filus seems to have adapted quite well to it and Joo Sae Hyuk's latest results in T2APAC weren't so bad as well.
Though i must admit that the number of racket edges from Lin today was quite significant and not very typical for CNT players at all. Something was obviously wrong with the timing.
Maybe a combination of balls and table surface? I don't know, but blaming everything on the balls doesn't grab the full picture IMHO.

 

[rainneverever]

I think Wu Yang's point is that the defensive players have to play more like attacking players with the new ball.
Several CNT players talked about the ball change in the post-match interviews. To be frank, I don't think they are just whining. The ball feels different to them and players with fine touch like XX and ML both complained about the new ball. They usually don't find excuses.
XX after beating Marcos Freitas: The new ball seems to give European players more advantages. The feeling of the new ball in the match is different from that during CNT training. I did not get along with new ball in the match.
FZD after beating Kenta Matsudaira: I did not get used to the new ball during Asian Cup. Now I feel better.
ZY after Austrian Open (he failed in group stage): The ball in world tours has less spins. My play strategy is first to generate spins to restrict the opponents from making killing shots; then I change the pace and add more power. Now the plan does not work due to reduced spins and I have more unforced errors.

I don't think it all can be blamed on the new generation of balls.
As one can see Ruwen Filus seems to have adapted quite well to it and Joo Sae Hyuk's latest results in T2APAC weren't so bad as well.
Though i must admit that the number of racket edges from Lin today was quite significant and not very typical for CNT players at all. Something was obviously wrong with the timing.
Maybe a combination of balls and table surface? I don't know, but blaming everything on the balls doesn't grab the full picture IMHO.

 

[Suga D]

But weren't the CNT the first ones practicing with the D40+?

 

[rainneverever]

But weren't the CNT the first ones practicing with the D40+?

They played 729 seamless ball for China National Games and practiced with it since China Open.
After National Games, LGY played Austrian Open, Asian Cup, World Cup and German Open with DHS 40+ and he seemed never to complain the ball. FZD played Asian Cup and German Open and complained that he didn't get used to the ball in Asian Cup. ML played World Cup and complained the ball. XX played German Open and complained the ball is different from the training ball. And we know they played double colored ball in CTTSL last week.....
I don't quite get the logic behind using non standard balls in National Games and CTTSL and why the training balls are different. But that's sth really going on.

 

[drunix80]

They played 729 seamless ball for China National Games and practiced with it since China Open.
After National Games, LGY played Austrian Open, Asian Cup, World Cup and German Open with DHS 40+ and he seemed never to complain the ball. FZD played Asian Cup and German Open and complained that he didn't get used to the ball in Asian Cup. ML played World Cup and complained the ball. XX played German Open and complained the ball is different from the training ball. And we know they played double colored ball in CTTSL last week.....
I don't quite get the logic behind using non standard balls in National Games and CTTSL and why the training balls are different. But that's sth really going on.

The reason why LGL (the master strategist) will be terribly missed. He always made sure CNT adapted to all possible combinations and permutations of adverse conditions before they wrecked havoc. I dont remember when was the last time CNT Men performed that poorly in back to back major tournaments. We have already seen two 4-0s against CNT in this tournament. That is almost unheard of.

 

[Atas Newton]

To be honest, I too thought the number of times Xu Xin failed to contact the ball altogether yesterday was too high to blame on his poor form. Same with Lin Gaoyuang mistiming his shots against Timo and Ma Long missing the contact many times in the World Cup. However, as someone have noticed, why not use precisely the same setup in practice if the players are not satisfied with how foreign it feels in tournaments?

Then again, CNT's managers are the last ones I'd blame here, it's all really ITTF's fault. The 38mm ball should never have been retired in the first place and likewise the 40mm celluloid ball. The explanations they gave when introducing new balls were laughable rubbish both times. They want the ball to be seen more clearly on TV screens? The material is highly flammable? Give me a break, ITTF.

 

[WorkerBee]

Adam Bobrow made an astute observation, that China has started using advanced genetic alien beings as seen in the movie Avatar.

 

[Astorix]

To be honest, I too thought the number of times Xu Xin failed to contact the ball altogether yesterday was too high to blame on his poor form. Same with Lin Gaoyuang mistiming his shots against Timo and Ma Long missing the contact many times in the World Cup. However, as someone have noticed, why not use precisely the same setup in practice if the players are not satisfied with how foreign it feels in tournaments?

Then again, CNT's managers are the last ones I'd blame here, it's all really ITTF's fault. The 38mm ball should never have been retired in the first place and likewise the 40mm celluloid ball. The explanations they gave when introducing new balls were laughable rubbish both times. They want the ball to be seen more clearly on TV screens? The material is highly flammable? Give me a break, ITTF.

the celluloid balls ARE highly flammable. In China whole factories burned down in accidents. Did you ever set a ball on fire?
Don`t play around with it, it is dangerous, is all i want to say.
Changing the material was fine. about the size we could argue about.

 

[v100ev]

Ok, I know that this may sound harsh, but the ball is the same for the both players on the table. If it takes you long to adapt to such change - it's your problem. I myself have huuuuge problems when changing the ball in a league and even if I struggle and don't play the level I would expect my answer to myself stays the same: "the opponent plays with the same ball". And that's it.
There's no such thing as fair or not fair in sports(except for judging). Either your ready or you're not and you try do adapt or you'll lose. That's pretty much it

 

[Atas Newton]

the celluloid balls ARE highly flammable. In China whole factories burned down in accidents. Did you ever set a ball on fire?

I would set broken balls on fire because it's kinda fun Of course I do it outside while taking necessary precautions. However, never once have I seen an actual news report about celluloid factories burning down - in China or elsewhere. Mind posting a link if you've got one? What I do hear usually is a lot of rumors. You can read more on the issue in this well researched post: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/foru...le=proof-of-worldwide-ban-of-celluloid#573297

Ok, I know that this may sound harsh, but the ball is the same for the both players on the table. If it takes you long to adapt to such change - it's your problem. I myself have huuuuge problems when changing the ball in a league and even if I struggle and don't play the level I would expect my answer to myself stays the same: "the opponent plays with the same ball". And that's it.

the ball is the same, but this reasoning completely misses the point. Assume for the sake of the argument that inverted rubbers were to be banned for whatever reason. Everyone would find themselves in the same position, right? Obviously wrong, players that already play with pips will have an advantage.

 

[iammaru]

Ok, I know that this may sound harsh, but the ball is the same for the both players on the table. If it takes you long to adapt to such change - it's your problem. I myself have huuuuge problems when changing the ball in a league and even if I struggle and don't play the level I would expect my answer to myself stays the same: "the opponent plays with the same ball". And that's it.
There's no such thing as fair or not fair in sports(except for judging). Either your ready or you're not and you try do adapt or you'll lose. That's pretty much it

they just explained why they didn't play well. It's not about fair or not. If your opponents are familiar with the ball and you are not, it'd be very hard to defeat them. I don't know what ball the Chinese players are practicing with, but one thing for sure, the 40+ balls from different brands feels very different from each other. You will need weeks or months of practice to get used to the ball, especially at a high level.
In the last match against Lee Sang Su, Xu Xin made too many mistakes that I have never seen before, especially a lot of his FH loops went too long, you can tell the ball had much less spin than he expected.

I'm rooting for the non-Chinese players and I'm really happy when they are able to defeat the Chinese, but I have to admit the ball may be a factor in these upsets.

 

[Sali]

When non chinese players were loosing all the time with chinese they could not make excuses. Now when chinese are loosing it is a ball problem. Come on! So what they are saying is that german got this ball much earlier and hide it for CNT. Poor chinese

 

[Atas Newton]

When non chinese players were loosing all the time with chinese they could not make excuses. Now when chinese are loosing it is a ball problem. Come on! So what they are saying is that german got this ball much earlier and hide it for CNT. Poor chinese

you really underestimate the mindset that top sportsmen have, especially the very best of them. A player with true winning mentality, which I'm sure ML or XX are, would never blame their defeat on outside factors wrongly for it would discredit both themselves and their opponents. Top table tennis players - Chinese or European - are notorious for their sportsmanship.