going to training after excercise

[janovewaldnerstwin]

Hey guys I was wondering,I excercise today I ran and done wall sit squats to get my legs stronger.Now my legs just hurt a bit since I done a few.can I go to training perfectly fine or any suggestions

 

[ronz91]

Hey guys I was wondering,I excercise today I ran and done wall sit squats to get my legs stronger.Now my legs just hurt a bit since I done a few.can I go to training perfectly fine or any suggestions

you will be fine

 

[Baal]

Don't expect to play your best.

 

[TTHopeful]

Lots of stretching. Train hard and give yourself some rest days

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

stretch. go for massage or acupuncture...
alternate hot bath/sauna with cold water bath

 

[bircham boi]

Eercise Rule Number 1: Do not believe everything you are told on the internet.

Every single person here will claim to be an expert on which exercises to do and why they are good for you. But the truth is we're not experts.

For example, stretching is almost universally touted as important, but there is very little scientific research to support the claims made for it. The same for massage and acupuncture. Some things we know for certain absolutely do NOT work - for example, homeopathy - and yet people will still argue to the death that it's a wonder cure for everything. I repeat - do not believe what you read on forums.

If you have serious questions about exercise, find an expert in your community and speak to them face to face. If you have minor questions, my advice is to avoid asking them here. You'll only get confused advice.

 

[langel]

Well, most of us are not experts, but still there are some experts in many fields here.
And I don't see any problems in sharing non-expert experience. Experts themselve have got their expertise by observing and analyzing others non-expert experience.

Back to the question - my personal formula is to avoid combining extreme physical training with a TT session or other sport in one and the same day, especially if you feel some pain or discomfort. Pain and discomfort are signals for unusual tension and if you continue to stress your body you may injure.
When I used to train martial arts and later in the army sometimes we were subject to utmost physical exercises stressing to muscle surrender and no one got injured because of this, but I don't find such methods very helpful in normal life.

 

[Simas]

For example, stretching is almost universally touted as important, but there is very little scientific research to support the claims made for it. The same for massage and acupuncture. Some things we know for certain absolutely do NOT work - for example, homeopathy - and yet people will still argue to the death that it's a wonder cure for everything. I repeat - do not believe what you read on forums.

If you are referring to stretching for the purpose of relieving post work out muscle soreness, then yes, there are a lot of disagreement here. But if you have shortened or tight muscles (either for example from sitting too much, or because of weight lifting..) then there is no disagreement here on the usefulness of stretching or massage.

 

[Baal]

Bircham boi is right about the scientific literature on stretching. I once did a deep dive into that and it is a mess. (I am a physiologist and have access to a great medical library). Some studies have shown that static stretching before an event reduces performance (for sprinters in one that I recall quite specifically). Some people counter by saying that dynamic stretching is different. But the studies are small and not very convincing and many show no effect with that either. It may depend on the sport. The literature on stretching as a way to prevent athletic injuries is equally unimpressive. It almost certainly doesn't actually lengthen the muscles or tendons either. There is a popular hypothesis emerging that it works to convince your brain and proprioceptors that you can move a little further safely and thereby suppresses early activation of some normally protective reflexes. I haven't done a similar search through the literature on massage. The problem is that it is really hard to design good controls for studies on manual therapies so most of the available studies do not meet current standards for evidence.

Of course you read everywhere that you should stretch before and/or after sports and it always sounds very "sciencey" but not much science to support it. (See for example magazines devoted to runners, cyclists, triathletes and the like).

It does tend to feel good though. So I tend to do some. But I have very limited expectations on what it actually accomplishes other than feeling good at that moment.

 

[Baal]

One of the best understood tenets of sports physiology and medicine is that recovery is an essential part of training.

You train. This stresses your system. You recover so that the system rebuilds itself stronger.

If you don't give yourself time to recover you will not gain the full benefits of training and in the worse case will make yourself worse.

So just be sensible.

 

[bircham boi]

Two other factors you need to take into account are confirmation bias and disconfirmation bias. We take on board those things that we already agree with and take no note of those we've decided beforehand are wrong. For example, I thoroughly approve of Baal's reading of the literature because he's saying things I already believe. Confirmation bias! On the other hand, the stretching-fixes-everything-crowd will completely ignore what he's saying because they've committed themselves to a belief and will not change their minds even if he's correct! Disconfirmation bias.

Which is why so many topics are quite pointless. People will always and only argue for those things they've predetermined to be the truth, even when it's not true. (Another example: dwell time. The science tells us quite clearly that it doesn't exist and yet people - even professionals! - still talk about keeping the ball on the racket. Insanity. But then we're all a little bit insane.) When it comes to exercise related matters, the information we give one another is all based on our own biases and very, very little science or reason.

 

[langel]

"The Dunning-Kruger Song", from The Incompetence Opera as part of the 27th First Annual Ig Nobel Prize Ceremony:

 

[Simas]

Bircham boi is right about the scientific literature on stretching. I once did a deep dive into that and it is a mess. (I am a physiologist and have access to a great medical library). Some studies have shown that static stretching before an event reduces performance (for sprinters in one that I recall quite specifically). Some people counter by saying that dynamic stretching is different. But the studies are small and not very convincing and many show no effect with that either. It may depend on the sport. The literature on stretching as a way to prevent athletic injuries is equally unimpressive. It almost certainly doesn't actually lengthen the muscles or tendons either. There is a popular hypothesis emerging that it works to convince your brain and proprioceptors that you can move a little further safely and thereby suppresses early activation of some normally protective reflexes. I haven't done a similar search through the literature on massage. The problem is that it is really hard to design good controls for studies on manual therapies so most of the available studies do not meet current standards for evidence.

Of course you read everywhere that you should stretch before and/or after sports and it always sounds very "sciencey" but not much science to support it. (See for example magazines devoted to runners, cyclists, triathletes and the like).

It does tend to feel good though. So I tend to do some. But I have very limited expectations on what it actually accomplishes other than feeling good at that moment.

Thank you for your answer. The discussion just got more interesting for me
yes, you are right about the usefulness of stretching for preventing injuries, or increasing performance. I didn't doubt that.
But let me disagree the usefulness of stretching on releasing tightness or shortened muscles (which can cause a lot of problems, the most common being back pain, but the list goes on...) also I didn't see any discussions doubting it, but maybe that's me only. (maybe you have some links for that particular use of stretching?)
In fact, you and every animal do stretch instinctively, for example after a sleep or spending time in some uncomfortable position. One very obvious example about stretching. If you get some trauma and your limb gets immobilized after some time (actually after some very short time) you lose the limbs range of motion. And after that, you go through rehabilitation process which is a lot of stretching and strengthening muscles etc. (Although personal experience shouldn't be used as an argument, but I remember vividly, when I had snapped my knee ligaments and after the surgery and healing I couldn't bend the knee more then some 30 degrees and how many stretching (and muscle building I had to do) till I got my natural knee movement back).

But general remark would be that yes, there are so many shady practices in medicine, that it's mind-boggling (homeopathy is just one of more obvious and yet widely spread cases)

 

[bircham boi]

Thank you for your answer. The discussion just got more interesting for me
yes, you are right about the usefulness of stretching for preventing injuries, or increasing performance. I didn't doubt that.
But let me disagree the usefulness of stretching on releasing tightness or shortened muscles...

But general remark would be that yes, there are so many shady practices in medicine, that it's mind-boggling (homeopathy is just one of more obvious and yet widely spread cases)

My argument has little to do with "shady practices in medicine" but lots to do with how we spread misinformation on the internet via forums like this one.

Yes, there are "shady practices", but homeopathy is NOT medicine and anyone who thinks rationally knows that. Legitimate medicine, on the other hand, is a much, much more reliable source of information than our mates on the forum. People who have spent years in university studying subjects in depth can be (generally) relied upon. BUT our mates who come here and tell everybody "stretch. go for massage or acupuncture... alternate hot bath/sauna with cold water bath" are sharing their ignorance not knowledge.

You, too, are perpetuating the mythology by continuing to argue about "the usefulness of stretching on releasing tightness or shortened muscles". Do you know if the OP has tight or shortened muscles? Do you know if there is any underlying physiological problem which might be made worse by stretching? Do you know what type of stretching is "useful" rather than another type which might be damaging? Do you know the OP's ability to understand what you're recommending, or are they likely to misunderstand and do the wrong thing or do the right thing but do it incorrectly? If you don't know the answers to those questions then nothing you post here is helpful. Medical advice has to based on legitimate expertise grounded in years of professional education.

 

[Simas]

My argument has little to do with "shady practices in medicine" but lots to do with how we spread misinformation on the internet via forums like this one.

Yes, your argument wasn't about shady practices about medicine, no one argued that it was. It was just my general remark. And your argument is 99% right, that most of the info on the web is not of good quality, so you must choose wisely. But, for example, if you go to a specialty forum (like this one) with questions about TT, chances are you would get a good advice are pretty high compared to some general forum about lifestyle

Yes, there are "shady practices", but homeopathy is NOT medicine

Maybe I used not strong enough word about homeopathy and other"alternative medicine" including acupuncture, chiropractic, etc.. for your liking But you are right

and anyone who thinks rationally knows that.

Unfortunately, that's not the case. People can be very rational in some instances and totally irrational on others.

You, too, are perpetuating the mythology by continuing to argue about "the usefulness of stretching on releasing tightness or shortened muscles". Do you know if the OP has tight or shortened muscles? Do you know if there is any underlying physiological problem which might be made worse by stretching? Do you know what type of stretching is "useful" rather than another type which might be damaging? Do you know the OP's ability to understand what you're recommending, or are they likely to misunderstand and do the wrong thing or do the right thing but do it incorrectly? If you don't know the answers to those questions then nothing you post here is helpful. Medical advice has to based on legitimate expertise grounded in years of professional education.

You should be more consistent and thorough with your argumentation here and not make jumps from general principles that I am arguing for "to know your patient first" type of discussion (I didn't talk about any particular person at all and "know your patient" is anyways too obvious argument to be a noteworthy). You should read the discussion more carefully. The thread started when janovewaldnerstwin asked about playing TT after squats and I think he was referring to muscle soreness after squats. Then other members gave advice about streching and accupuncture, then you said that accupuncure and streching ~doesn't work. I said, that stretching doesn't work for muscle soreness too, but it works in cases of tight or shortened muscles. Then Baal wrote what he has found from his research. Then somehow out of nowhere you derailed the interesting discussion about stretching to some obvious know your patient stuff. Stating the obvious isn't the
most productive way to continue it...

 

[janovewaldnerstwin]

ok i got tt training on Tuesday and I took a rest since i trained on Friday physical training.My muscles feel relieved so I’m gonna excercise.