Greatest male player in his PRIME (PEAK)

Greatest male player in his PRIME (PEAK)

  • Wan Liqin

    Votes: 25 39.1%
  • Waldner

    Votes: 21 32.8%
  • Ma Lin

    Votes: 2 3.1%
  • Kong

    Votes: 1 1.6%
  • Liu Guoliang

    Votes: 1 1.6%
  • Guo Yehua

    Votes: 1 1.6%
  • Jiang Jialiang

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ma Long

    Votes: 12 18.8%
  • Wang Hao

    Votes: 1 1.6%
  • other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    64
This user has no status.
Hmmm there are a lot of possible holes in your argument.... The Chinese training system has only really reached a level of peak after Waldner's true prime years. During much of his career, the top training system was probably sweden. the Chinese system may have required a lot of training and hard work, but it really has developed the streamlined efficiency that it has today.

Boll's game matches up horribly against Waldner for one thing. Waldner's style incorporates a lot of the same block shots that Oh Seung Enh has, and Boll also does horribly against him. Even if we don't consider this, having a lot of experience in a sport can often outweigh a lot of other factors. I mean if we really look at it, at the current moment, Wang Liqin despite not being able to beat many of the younger Chinese, he still beats all the nonChinese players, and when he is in peak form, still beats Ma Lin, and I think has a good chance of beating Xu Xin and ZJK.

the argument that Waldner faced europeans that were far better in their day compared with those today, along with the argument that he stood toe to toe with the Chinese is really hard to make a convincing argument with. I don't think the past european players were necessarily any better, I just think that comparatively they did better against their Chinese counterparts. For the reasons stated above, even though the Chinese were a big player even several decades ago, I really don't think their system reached even close to its maturity that it reach by the time Wang Liqin and Ma Lin began to become the main representatives of China, and even that generation's system can't compare with what the system that created Ma Long and ZJK are like today. Right now we have 6 Chinese in the top 10, 3 in the top 3, and then aside from Boll, the next three are also Chinese, thats a level of domination that China has never reached in the past.

sorry they won every team event from 77to 89,except 79 when the 3 amazing hungarians played out of there skin.. guo was in four finals in a row and only lost 2 because he was told to, jiang, chen teng yi were always in the top 4-5 in the world include chenxinhua, I was at thornaby in the 80s watching the chinese reserve team absolutely stuff anyone...sweden had the same team for 10 years before they finally overcame the chinese....china were virtually untouchable for this era ,,, the chinese had to change the style to acomodate the glue game, as in 89 the short pips were blown away, the hardest games for the swedes were the chinese shakehand looper, t took them 6 years to catch up and reverse this...with kong and the reverse backhand of liu..
.Also gatien was world champ , roskopf won euro , world doubles, primorac 3 times euro r/up,person world champ. lindh world cup, applegren 3 times euro, world cup, world team world doubles, so I think the euro s players were definately stroger then more in depth..
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Nov 2011
13
0
14
i was also at the euros when boll as a 17 year old beat waldner from 20-14 down in the fifth...matched up well then...actually beat him a few times but not when it really mattered
Since 2001 year according ratingcentral stats boll have 7-2 with waldner head-to-head. 17 years old& it was in 1998 year? on what competition?
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Nov 2011
13
0
14
After doing some research now I have opinion about GREATEST PLAYER PRIME since 1990 year ( early I have too small info). From all I read and saw my top :
1. Wang Liqin
2. Liu Guoliang
3. Waldner
4. Ma Lin
5. Wang Hao, Kong
6. Schlager,Boll,Persson, ect
Now Ma Long and Zhang Jike have a good case for being in the top in the future.
 
This user has no status.
Since 2001 year according ratingcentral stats boll have 7-2 with waldner head-to-head. 17 years old& it was in 1998 year? on what competition?

European championships,,which waldner had won 2 years previous and ddi nt look in the best shape,he was in the bar for his bronze medal presentation leaving persson red faced on the rostrum
 
This user has no status.
Since 2001 year according ratingcentral stats boll have 7-2 with waldner head-to-head. 17 years old& it was in 1998 year? on what competition?

so the two boll lost were the last 16 in bremmen in 5 in germany in the 2000 euro which i attended and the 2004 olympics which i did not..maybe the other five were in the local sunderland league..lol...
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Nov 2011
13
0
14
so the two boll lost were the last 16 in bremmen in 5 in germany in the 2000 euro which i attended and the 2004 olympics which i did not..maybe the other five were in the local sunderland league..lol...
Boll won 7 and lost 2(1 Olimpics) since 2001. 2000 year didnt count there.
 
This user has no status.
Yeah I definitely would have to go with Wang Liqin, though I guess I am biased since he is my favorite player of all time.

Waldner was great, but his play wasn't really a consistent level of domination as what Wang Liqin had. Waldner would perform well on the big stage, but in other instances he would be pretty mediocre. A lot of the acclaim Waldner receives is also do to the fact that most of the fans we deal with online are from western countries, who obviously are more partial to western players. If Waldner was Chinese, he wouldn't have been viewed in any special way. It's just like how there are still some fans out there who claim Boll is the greatest player in the world, despite Boll not even winning and world championships, and of the three majors has only won the easiest and least impressive of them.

Wang Liqin really reached a level of dominance that in the modern era we have never seen. His solid backhand combined with his unparalleled backhand meant that when he was playing well he was unstoppable. There was such a long period where he and Ma Lin basically reached the finals of every pro tour tournament, with Wang Liqin winning the overwhelming majority of them. It's quite an impressive feat, when you consider the fact that Ma Lin is such a legend, and is probably the greatest penholder player ever, and epitomizes the ultimate traditional penholder style.

Physically Wang Liqin also is probably the most gifted player in history. He has the best combination of size and quickness of any player. There are people faster than him, but not bigger, and then there are people bigger than him but not faster. God knows how insanely good Wang Liqin would have been if he had come along a little later and got the training and came up in the system that has been streamlined and perfected by the time Ma Long appeared.

Scylla24: re ur comment about western ppl like waldner, do u realize Waldner is a small GOD in china :)
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Mar 2011
3,144
143
3,552
Read 1 reviews
Yeah Schlager really doesn't always get the credit he deserves. In his prime he had such a tricky game, had such good tactics and mental strength, that he won more often against the Chinese than Boll has ever done.

Whoa, now THAT Sir, I don't know !
Its just too bad Schlagi was the world's number one for a month in ITTF's ranking.
It was June 2003 if I am not mistaken, after defeating 2 legends in WTTC (Kong Linghui and Wang Liqin).
 
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,172
17,750
54,905
Read 11 reviews
I know,than a lot of people will say Waldner,but IMO its about his beautiful game and longevity. And if we will watch objective,who is the greatest player of all-time in his prime? Candidates: Jiang Jialiang,
Guo Yehua,Waldner, Kong,Liu Guolang, Ma Lin,Wan Liqin, Wang Hao,Ma Long,Zhang Jike.
Your opinion...

So I am trying to figure out what this means. My first read of it gave me the impression that, what is being asked is not simply the best player of all times. If that is the question, my answer, for several reasons would be Waldner. In part it would be because he is my favorite player from when I was younger and got interested in Table Tennis. I am the same age as Waldner so I remember him when he won the Olympics in 1992 and I remember watching the 1991 World Championships and liking his playing style better than Persson's although I really like Persson a lot as well. But Waldner was a major force in Table Tennis from 1983 till 2001 and was still pretty darn good in 2004 in spite of being pretty out of shape. He even played a match against Ma Long in 2008 and gave him some trouble. For all his achievements, for all the creativity his playing style brought to the sport, for his class, the amount of time he maintained a level of excellence, I would have to say Waldner was the man.

But if it was just, "Who Is The Best Player of All Time", than you would not need the words "in his PRIME (PEAK). And in the title these are in all capitol letters. Therefore I read this as meaning, "When the Player Was At His Peak and On Top, Who Was Most Dominant". And if this is what is being asked, I have no question for the reasons I have already stated and all the stats which back this up, that I already presented, that Wang Liqin, who also has a lot of class and composure, and style, was the most dominant force table tennis has seen, so far.

I agree with Azlan that Victor Barna has to be mentioned for historical records. But Victor Barna was a player who would grind games out and wear his opponents down with his defensive style. It was also such a different era, I don't know that I understand what Victor Barna actually accomplished. As for Waldner, he would outthink and outsmart players, he would win with placement, with finesse, with defense, with offense, with every kind of tactic and game skill imaginable, but he was not simply blowing people away. If we had access to his ranking history you would see that he did not have long stretches in the #1 ranking slot. He would peak in tournaments at the right time but when he played his most dominant tournament, the 1997 World Championships, where he did not drop a game (or as some people say, a set) he went into that tournament ranked #5 and he did not have the best team event before the singles event started. But in the singles event, he had his eye on the prize and got on a roll with some of his most amazing play of his entire career.

But, for two long periods of dominance where he peaked and was at the top, Wang Liqin simple bludgeoned his opponents into submission with one of the best forehands ever in the sport, and he was dominating the World Table Tennis ranks at that time, the way Mike Tyson dominated the Heavy weight division for his brief stint before Don King convinced him he was so great he did not need a trainer. :)

I think Mr RicharD has made some valid points but I do not agree with how he is comparing players from different eras with the idea that they would not be able to handle what the top players now are doing in the sport. We really cannot get Waldner in his prime, to play Wang Liqin in his prime and Ma Long in his prime. It cannot happen. So I think we should judge players by how they handled the opposition that was present for them when they played. What would happen if Joe Lewis fought Muhammad Ali? We will never know and it does not matter. What we do know is that these players exhibited their excellence and dominated in their day. And I would simply say, I don't see anyone who was as much ahead of the competition when he was at his best as Wang Liqin.

My favorite player is still Waldner. There are a lot of players I love. I love how Ma Long plays, I love how Zhang Jike playes (because of how he plays, Jike is my favorite of the players today) I love Fang Bo and think he will come up and be a force in a few years but I love how he play and all his shots, Schlager is great and you have to love his serves and his backhand, Wang Hao, Timo, Kong, Joo Kreanga, the list is long. But none of them beat down the whole pro ranks the way Wang Liqin did when he was on top. :)

That is, at least, my opinion. :)

gregoire, thank you for a fun thread.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ttmonster
says hAHAHAHA THANX MATE :D
says hAHAHAHA THANX MATE :D
Well-Known Member
Mar 2011
1,877
145
2,076
54
Hahahaha Carl, I raise my hands. That was an excellent post. No doubt Waldner was great, but he showed his greatness in batches. He might do well in some touney, and not so well in others. Currently, WLQ is heads and shoulders above the rest. He changed on how the game should be played. He dominated his opponents. Actually, I do see a bit of WLQ in Ma Long.

Schlager, Person, Kreanga, Saive, Kong, LGL, and so mny others are all great players, and nothing can take away what they have achieved. But, what WLQ has done is just something else. And, HE IS STILL IN THE TOP 10 after all these years!!
 
This user has no status.
so winning the world title with all the great chinese players and some awesome euro players is not considered to be the best in his prime,
your prime is when all the things come together for one great event.
To win the WORLD championships when aged 33 and supposedly passed your best without losing a single game and only going to deuce once in 21 games.this is the prime of prime...you cant do any better ,
so are you saying prime is a certain length of time say 10 years or in the prime you were so dominant you did nt even lose a game, such as ma long , the last few months he is so good he has nt dropped a game,, but he still has nt won any big ones,,!
so at the end of the day the prime of prime ,, waldner also won the olympics dropping only 1 game in the entire tournament if that is that not good enough I dont know what is.. maybe if he won every game under 5 ,,, and remember these games are up to 21,,, so if you get a poor start and are 15 -7 down do you chuck that end and recover for the next game,,, also wang did nt win the olympics in his prime so a failure there...i still thnk liu has a better record also,,
he won the lot...
Ali in his prime,, when was that .. at 21 beating the monster of sonny liston ,, or at the age of 32,, against a bigger stronger unbeatable giant of a man in george foreman, not only beating him but forcing hm to retire,,, thats the zenith the prime.... never to be forgotten,,
waldners serve down the line v vladi at 16-9 leaving hm for dead these are prime moments.. total destruction, mentally and physically of your wilting opponent,,, panache2 flair, deceit, skill, prime...
 
Last edited:
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,172
17,750
54,905
Read 11 reviews
so winning the world title with all the great chinese players and some awesome euro players is not considered to be the best in his prime,
your prime is when all the things come together for one great event.
To win the WORLD championships when aged 33 and supposedly passed your best without losing a single game and only going to deuce once in 21 games.this is the prime of prime...you cant do any better ,
so are you saying prime is a certain length of time say 10 years or in the prime you were so dominant you did nt even lose a game, such as ma long , the last few months he is so good he has nt dropped a game,, but he still has nt won any big ones,,!
so at the end of the day the prime of prime ,, waldner also won the olympics dropping only 1 game in the entire tournament if that is that not good enough I dont know what is.. maybe if he won every game under 5 ,,, and remember these games are up to 21,,, so if you get a poor start and are 15 -7 down do you chuck that end and recover for the next game,,, also wang did nt win the olympics in his prime so a failure there...i still thnk liu has a better record also,,
he won the lot...
Ali in his prime,, when was that .. at 21 beating the monster of sonny liston ,, or at the age of 32,, against a bigger stronger unbeatable giant of a man in george foreman, not only beating him but forcing hm to retire,,, thats the zenith the prime.... never to be forgotten,,
waldners serve down the line v vladi at 16-9 leaving hm for dead these are prime moments.. total destruction, mentally and physically of your wilting opponent,,, panache2 flair, deceit, skill, prime...

Nice that we can all have our opinions and it is not like one is right and another is wrong.

And I would say that Ali was in a forced retirement during his prime and when he came back to fighting after he was banned from boxing for his protest of the Vietnam war he was over the hill. If you see his matches against the guys he was fighting in his last few fights before they took away his boxing license, especially against Cleveland Williams which I think was his last fight before being banned, he was fast and devastating. When his boxing license was reinstated and he came back he never had the same legs or power. He still fought like a great fighter and did amazing things, but he was past the prime of his life as a boxer and his physical talents were diminished.


If you look at the punch stats, I think that Ali's (Clay back then) punch stats were about 90% landed which is really unheard of.

That is a different fighter than the intelligent guy who laid on the ropes and let George Foreman punch himself out while winning every round.
 
Last edited:
says hAHAHAHA THANX MATE :D
says hAHAHAHA THANX MATE :D
Well-Known Member
Mar 2011
1,877
145
2,076
54
I just think that with many people here, there will be many opinions. It's just my opinion that I think WLQ was the greatest, currently (I said that in my 1st post on this thread). All time, it's Viktor Barna. Though he played in a different era, he dominated the TT world back then.

Waldner was a magician, he had guile in his game, no doubt he was a great player. In my opinion, WLQ through his playing years, he faced Schlager, Samsonov, Boll, Saive, Waldner, Persson, Primorac, who are all great European players by their own right, and he clearly dominated them.

Not trying to take anything away from the great man, Waldner too faced many of his European counterparts during that time including countless others from the China, Korea and Japan.

It's just the fact, Waldner did not dominate them totally, therefore he did not merit MY opinion to be the "greatest in his prime". In my opinion, to be the greatest in my book, after securing the no 1, WLQ woke up the next morning and did it all over again, and again, and again...and again. There never was a day off for him. Anybody can be the no 1, but maintaining it for a long time, makes Wang Liqin wins my vote, hands down.
 
This user has no status.
21 ends to nil azlan,, sorry, 24 ends to1 wordls and olympics says it all... wang did nt win olympics.. waldner won the swedish champs at 45 years of age,, pretty long time..saying that wang was an incredible competitor, 3-1 and 7-1 down to ma lin in the world singles final,, an amazing comeback...
wang was my second fav player but ma long zhang zhike are the new stars of the game, as well as the young japanese jun the lobber and koki he block loooper great to watch...
 
This user has no status.
21 ends to nil azlan,, sorry, 24 ends to1 wordls and olympics says it all... wang did nt win olympics.. waldner won the swedish champs at 45 years of age,, pretty long time..saying that wang was an incredible competitor, 3-1 and 7-1 down to ma lin in the world singles final,, an amazing comeback...
wang was my second fav player but ma long zhang zhike are the new stars of the game, as well as the young japanese jun the lobber and koki he block loooper great to watch...
 
Top