How does your mental attitude influence your game?

[baumschule]

Hi guys,
I`ve enjoyed reading through all the threads regarding equipment and technique but I felt that the mental aspect of the game wasn't talked about that much. So I thought why not make a thread about it?

I want this discussion to be as free as possible whe everyone can share their own thoughts about everything related to the mental game but my questions would be if you have a different mindset going into matches compared to regular training and if so is this something you want to change? Also do you have any rituals or something similar you like to do before a match to get yourself into "the zone"?

I personally have the problem of going into a "casual mode" during training except when I'm doing multiball drills. I become less aware and react slower compared to when I'm playing in a competition. Sometimes I'm able to snap out of it and play less reactive and more proactive like I want to and do for the most part in a competition. When it becomes especially bad I feel like I'm wasting my time spending all those evenings in the gym when I'm not even giving it my all. I don't really know how to change this and hope your thoughts and experiences can help me and others with similar problems.

 

[Siva Schopenhauer]

I will recommend these books about gaining advantage in competitive environment.

1) Art of War by Sun Tzu. He is a Chinese Military General
2) Art of Learning by Josh Waitzkin, He is an IM at chess, Black Belt in Marcelo Garcia Jiu Jitsu and Tai Chi 2004 Push Hands World Champion.
3) Any Napolean Bonoparte book related to military strategy.

All these books speak about gaining advantage on emotional and psychological level.

Speaking from my personal experience, it is always important to feel confident such that your opponent knows that you are not afraid. In table tennis, I adopt the Ma Lin look before serving by looking at the opponents face and eyes to show that you are ready to roar. It is also important to feel nourished and rested before entering competitive environment. Sometimes, we lose and think it is about our inability on the other hand a good night's sleep, hydration and nutrition is the most important. When I fix these, it helps me to go from 0 to 1.

First set is all about adapting to the opponents style and finding weakness. The most important thing about the first set is to get warmed up and set regardless of the result. To win close points at the end of the set, I usually act passive to make my opponent aggressive and eventually get those unforced errors.

If you have a very good serve in my opinion it has the biggest advantage because it throws off the psychological balance of the opponent each time they face it. Every point loss through a service is an emotional Muhammad Ali jab which keeps on accumulating till they snap. I keep a ritual of deep breath, positioning my body to the right place and change the time taken before serves to make my opponent impatient.

Those are some of the strategies on the top of head.

If you are interested in mixed martial arts, there is this Russian Guy called Fedor Emelianko who speaks about being calm before the match. In my own experience, I could assure that the time spent waiting before the match consumes a lot of energy. Fedor suggests numbing all senses just like 15 minutes before the match and when you start playing, you could recover all those emotional energy into the play, feeling ruthless is ideal until the play gets over but it is incredibly hard without getting angry.

 

[chuckjordan2]

Jimi Hendrix usually helps.......

What throws me out of whack is Chinese Opera; my wife sings it always on the drive to matches, grocery store, shopping, and at home.

 

[rokphish]

Jimi Hendrix usually helps.......

What throws me out of whack is Chinese Opera; my wife sings it always on the drive to matches, grocery store, shopping, and at home.

I feel sorry for you...

 

[Suga D]

Beautiful topic, Baumschule.
I was sort of waiting for this.
Good one.

Before league matches i always try to find out who my opponents are, and if I know them and played them before I try to visualize their strength and their weaknesses and how I can outsmart them during a rally.
If I don't know them, i try to find someone i know who has played them and ask them.
Some opponents have vids on YouTube or other platforms, so i rarely use that too.

Of course this whole strategy is nothing but a bunch of rubbish if the opponent team plays in a different order due to sickness or whatever. That can happen.
[Emoji2]

At Tournaments it's a little different. If I can I try to find out who are the strongest opponents and their ways of playing and try to visualize how the match could be like.
But you always should be prepared for someone unexpected "flying underneath your radar" and stay on your toes.
My coach has taught me:
the most dangerous opponents are the underestimated ones...
[Emoji2]

Directly before matchplay i often close my eyes and listen to music.
I found out for myself that listening to some uplifting Reggae or Dancehall around 80 bpm works the best for me. It's just got the right Vibe for me. Not too soft, not too hard.
Too soft music doesn't get me vigilant enough, and too aggressive music makes me play too impatient. But everybody's different.
In my old Team we always had a small shot of wine before the match begun. That was pretty good for the team Spirit. But ofc not so much to get drunk, just a sip to get a little relaxed. I heard of others that inhale or smoke parts of plants, but that's up to each his own...
[Emoji2]

For Training i found out it's always good to set up little goals you want to reach. Even if it's something simple. For training matches playing for money put in a pot or beer and food (i guess "Der_Echte" would prefer Chicken&Beer) can really be helpful raising the motivation level.
[Emoji2]

My reply turned out to get a little longer than originally planned.
I hope it's not too long...

 

[baumschule]

Some good points Siva! As someone who studies nutrition I think many people underestimate the impact eating the right things can have. I also really like the idea you described in the last paragraph and maybe I'll try that out sometime.

If you are interested in mixed martial arts, there is this Russian Guy called Fedor Emelianko who speaks about being calm before the match. In my own experience, I could assure that the time spent waiting before the match consumes a lot of energy. Fedor suggests numbing all senses just like 15 minutes before the match and when you start playing, you could recover all those emotional energy into the play, feeling ruthless is ideal until the play gets over but it is incredibly hard without getting angry.

But like I said i usually have no problems focusing/concentrating during a league match it's mostly in trainig where i struggle.

Before league matches i always try to find out who my opponents are, and if I know them and played them before I try to visualize their strength and their weaknesses and how I can outsmart them during a rally.
If I don't know them, i try to find someone i know who has played them and ask them.
Some opponents have vids on YouTube or other platforms, so i rarely use that too.

It's really interesting to me how different people approach games. I know that it's probably a good idea to know as much as possible about your opponent but I like to go into games with only a bit of information. Usually I ask one of my teammates if there is something special about my opponent like an exceptionally strong backhand. Most of the time I just try to focus on myself and sort of "go with the flow".

For Training i found out it's always good to set up little goals you want to reach. Even if it's something simple. For training matches playing for money put in a pot or beer and food (i guess "Der_Echte" would prefer Chicken&Beer) can really be helpful raising the motivation level.

Some good advice although as a broke student I'm not sure if I can afford losing that much

 

[Siva Schopenhauer]

Maybe you are like Timo Boll, you don't need to give 100% during training but have a very good winning record on competitive level. I presume that you are confident enough on your experience that you feel like getting away with training. I can quote quite many successful athletes who under train but deliver at a higher level than expected.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

A principle about sports psychology that is worth understanding is that everyone plays better at a different level of stress.

What do I mean by that? Right now I am thinking of John McEnroe and Jimmy Connors: both of them played much better when they were riled up and angry. An argument or two with the main umpire and either of them would go on a tear. Bjorn Borg was the exact opposite. He played his best when he was calm.

Waldner is like that. Always so calm under pressure. Always played best when calm.

Tahl Leibovitz is an extreme example of someone who plays better when hyped up: get him hyped up to the point of uncontrolled anger and he will play 150-200 points better than his norm. As a result, in pretty much any match of import, he puts on antics that get him mad as hell.

Anyway, each person has to find his or her own optimal stress level for performance. Like, I know I play better if I am relaxed and laid back.

@ baumschule: it sounds like you play better with a certain degree of stress. If you can take the idea of a need to perform or a goal of a percentage landed for an exercise, when you are training, the pressure of having a goal that you need to achieve in training, may help your focus in training.

For me, just being relaxed and not overthinking things helps. For someone like you, taking training as if you can win or lose, might actually help.

There are drills like that. Here is one:

You start with the score 9-9 and you serve. If you win, you start over and keep your serve. If you lose 2x in a row, the training partner gets the serve and you try to win the serve back.

That is a a drill that incorporates the element of needing to perform in it. There are lots more. Anything that will give you incentive to perform and a goal during training should help.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

 

[ajtatosmano2]

I will recommend these books about gaining advantage in competitive environment.

1) Art of War by Sun Tzu. He is a Chinese Military General
2) Art of Learning by Josh Waitzkin, He is an IM at chess, Black Belt in Marcelo Garcia Jiu Jitsu and Tai Chi 2004 Push Hands World Champion.
3) Any Napolean Bonoparte book related to military strategy.

I would recommend The Book of the Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi over these pieces. Short, simple and inspiring.

 

[Siva Schopenhauer]

I would recommend The Book of the Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi over these pieces. Short, simple and inspiring.

I think we have the same taste. I have that book in both audio form and epub format in my pc and mobile. Bored, get back to the greatest Samurai Mushashi for some Wisdom. I learned all these trash talk through some of these books. They see me as a troll, but I ain't ****ing kidding. Personally I take those 21 rules to heart except for a few it is really hard for me to practise. Also Hagakure is good na.

 

[Archosaurus]

Siva, I think you're somewhat mistaking confidence and belief in your creed with loud insecurity.

I somehow think any real historic samurai figure would disapprove of "trashtalk".


Well, maybe not the ronin who cut down peasants for fun.

 

[Siva Schopenhauer]

Siva, I think you're somewhat mistaking confidence and belief in your creed with loud insecurity.

I somehow think any real historic samurai figure would disapprove of "trashtalk".


Well, maybe not the ronin who cut down peasants for fun.

Ha ha, that was funny. Well, I ll stop here before I repeat the same thing again. I don't want to speak anything about myself here. Stop Siva or commit Sepuku

 

[songdavid98]

Mental attitude means a lot, because it affects your decision making. I already made a long post about this in one of my older threads, but I'll put this here anyways.

That's kind of how I play... and I LOVE IT! I've been told that I'm a flashy player.

I play super aggressively. As of right now, I'd be a power looper.

I know firsthand the detriments of this kind of play style. I would look back on the games I've play and see a 2 giant themes.

1. The opponent didn't get to attack
2. I always "killed myself"

I started playing this way because I hated being attacked. I didn't how to block well, but seeing the Chinese just attack and counter attack made me want to do the same.

The first thing I learned how to loop underspin. (To this day, this is my best shot.) Why didn't I learn to loop topspin first? The players around me at the time were just older people who served underspin, pushed half long, and smashed, so the most common spin I'd see was underspin.
Then I learned how to loop kinds of serves. Here, I learned how to see the difference between half long and short balls.

After I started playing with loopers, I learned how to serve short underspin and push short. I realized when I started out that giving short balls gave you a much better chance attacking first. I practiced for hours, day after day, serving short underspin. I was still pretty bad at ping pong then. No one wanted to play with me, so I had a lot of time to familiarize myself with service. I pretty much got myself an "unattackable serve", at least for players at the level.

Against the loopers, I would lose the point almost every time my opponent attacked. Instead of learning how to deal with this situation, I sought to prevent it from happening all together.

I started learning how to third ball attack. I took every chance I got to attack. I would internally yell at myself for pushing a ball that I could have attacked.
I learned how to attack short balls in the process. I was getting better at drop shotting, since I stopped pushing long all together. I did everything I could to prevent my opponent's attack. I would try to shut down their game by giving everything short, and attacked whenever I could.

I got used to everything. Players varied service spin/placement, placing pushes to different angles, pushing hard and long, and everything in between. I never served topspin. Reading serves became a lot easier for me. I instinctively attack a push. I played my first tournament, the NJTTC 2013 November Open, and was rated 1862.

My play style worked. Players around 2000 weren't too confident with their short game and tried to get me to miss my attacks by varying everything pushes and serves. I was able to deal with most of the serves(loop or drop shot), and almost all of the pushes, so it was quite successful against those who couldn't serve short spinny or drop shot, those who couldn't block my opening loop (remember, looping underspin is my best shot, and I've been practicing my attack the whole time, so my opening loop was really above my level). As for topspin, I was getting there. But people don't like to serve topspin very much, since they want to attack first too.

I would lose to people who were as aggressive more aggressive than I (I'm starting to see more of these players the higher I go up the rating ladder), those who could block well(I beat Richard DeWitt though that was fun), and those who had great short game.

Back to the 2 themes, I would often "kill myself", meaning I would often lose the point by missing my attacks. I figured this is natural. After all, attacking is hard, and you have to play worse before you start improving.

People would tell me to chill out, and play smart. I still don't think too much of not attacking first. I figured that I would start playing smart when I can't overpower my opponent (I still played kind of well against defenders).
My thinking was that I should be able to win more than 1/2 the points by attacking. Also, I didn't think too much of missing anyways. Moreover, I told myself that this was for the sake of improvement.

As for the other theme, players told that I took their game from them. It sort of became not fun, because they ended up with no options. I had never thought about too much at the start. I don't want to turn people away from the sport.


I'm starting to change my playstyle now, since I think my playstyle is hindering my development. Now, I'm counter attacking, and I've gotten pretty good at it! REALLY FUN and EVEN MORE FLASHY.

But in all seriousness, I've got to start learning to block well in games.
I think it's hindering my development.

Should I start getting used to being attacked? Show I change how I play?


Also, feel free to post your own playstyle. I'm curious too see how other players came to play how they play.

 

[songdavid98]

Hi guys,
I`ve enjoyed reading through all the threads regarding equipment and technique but I felt that the mental aspect of the game wasn't talked about that much. So I thought why not make a thread about it?

I want this discussion to be as free as possible whe everyone can share their own thoughts about everything related to the mental game but my questions would be if you have a different mindset going into matches compared to regular training and if so is this something you want to change? Also do you have any rituals or something similar you like to do before a match to get yourself into "the zone"?

I personally have the problem of going into a "casual mode" during training except when I'm doing multiball drills. I become less aware and react slower compared to when I'm playing in a competition. Sometimes I'm able to snap out of it and play less reactive and more proactive like I want to and do for the most part in a competition. When it becomes especially bad I feel like I'm wasting my time spending all those evenings in the gym when I'm not even giving it my all. I don't really know how to change this and hope your thoughts and experiences can help me and others with similar problems.

As for how to get out of your "casual mode", give yourself a small goal for the day.

For example, "Today, I will make my forehand loop cross court against underspin faster."
Or, "I will learn how to backhand flip short no spin serves today."
Make them specific, you will get better with small steps, especially if you have something to focus on.

There is always something to work on and there is always something to pay attention to.
One of the easiest things to work on is creating better shot quality. Until you are hitting world class balls, you shouldn't be wasting time during your training.

Also, always think about critiquing yourself. This is another thing you can pay attention to.

As for "rituals", I wash my hands because I have sweaty hands.

By the way, anybody know how to remedy sweaty hands and feet? It's not a nervousness problem. It just happens when I think about table tennis, like right now, as I'm typing on this keyboard.

 

[Der_Echte]

I suppose the consensus shows that Der_Echte plays optimal with a beer in left hand and a piece of chicken breast in the other hand.

The ones who have seen me play believe I am close enough to the camp of Tahl L., but really, deep down, I am like Carl, Baumschule and SugaD, I am much better when I can have my hand and body muscles relaxed. Being pissed off makes you too tense in the crunch.

 

[baumschule]

Can't really write too much at the moment but thanks for the great responses everybody! Carl I think you perfectly described the situation. I'm definitely going to try to implement these ideas into training.
David I think we have pretty much the same playstyle. I always try to loop everything and stop my opponent from being able to play their own game.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Hello bauschule:

During training or even warm up, I'm a chameleon. I adapt to my partner. If they ae serious, I will be seriois ... if they are having fun, I'll have fun.

Sometimes i do this with players I know that are more skilled/experienced than I am ... they appear serious, I make a joke and see their reaction. Based on that I proceed accordingly. Also I play at a club where I'm the noob, others have been there a lot longer and know each other and sometimes joke with each other. As they don't know me well enough yet, they are a bit more serious.

I may have rambled and didn't answer the OP properly ... sincerest apologies if so.

~osp

 

[Shuki]

in practice I'm focused on my form. Changing it, fixing problems, learning strokes, getting those strokes to the level of the rest of my strokes.

If I'm hitting well in games. I just let my mind free and let my game come out, I focus on very little in a rally. Just let all I've trained for do it's work while I stay relaxed enjoying myself. A euphoric feeling comes into play.

When I'm playing okay, I'm super focused on my opponent. Looking into their weaknesses and strengths. thinking "what made me miss that shot, on a scale of 1-10 how spinny was that compared to how spinny I thought it was?" This lets me be ready for it if it comes again.

When I'm playing bad I'm focused on my form, or focused on movement, or focused on relaxing myself. Trying too hard to MAKE myself relax instead of just being in that state. When I focus on fixing a stroke in match, it's all downhill from there.

I'm told I play best stoned. But I hate being stoned too much to play like that anymore. Mixing something I hate with something I love doesn't sound like a great idea.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I'm told I play best stoned. But I hate being stoned too much to play like that anymore. Mixing something I hate with something I love doesn't sound like a great idea.

Maybe I missed something. [emoji2] If you don't like being stoned, how did you ever end up stoned and playing table tennis in the first place.

I remember when I used to play music I really thought I played better when I was stoned. I used to play in High School and College with a group of guys who were in the Music department of Music and Art High School (which the movie "Fame" was about) and we would jam and I swore I was being so creative and innovative while I was stoned.

And then one time we recorded....and, well...once I was sober and had my ears screwed on straight and listened to it, it didn't sound as "totally awesome" as I had thought while we were playing.

I know, that is different. Someone watching you said you played better stoned which is very different from you thinking you played better stoned. Also, in TT, if what you think doesn't match the reality of the situation, you get beat. [emoji2]

But I'm still wondering how you ended up getting stoned and playing if you don't like getting stoned. Hahaha.



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[Shuki]

Maybe I missed something. [emoji2] If you don't like being stoned, how did you ever end up stoned and playing table tennis in the first place.

I remember when I used to play music I really thought I played better when I was stoned. I used to play in High School and College with a group of guys who were in the Music department of Music and Art High School (which the movie "Fame" was about) and we would jam and I swore I was being so creative and innovative while I was stoned.

And then one time we recorded....and, well...once I was sober and had my ears screwed on straight and listened to it, it didn't sound as "totally awesome" as I had thought while we were playing.

I know, that is different. Someone watching you said you played better stoned which is very different from you thinking you played better stoned. Also, in TT, if what you think doesn't match the reality of the situation, you get beat. [emoji2]

But I'm still wondering how you ended up getting stoned and playing if you don't like getting stoned. Hahaha.



Sent from Inside The Chamber of Secrets by Patronus

I used to partake a lot more before I decided I didn't like it. Now every once in a while if I'll decide "ehh why not, haven't done that in a long time" and once I'm stoned of course I'm going to end up playing. Probably happens once every 6 months. But once in stoned for about an hour I'm sick of it and want that feeling to stop. But the only way to make it stop is wait it out.

The stuff no matter the strain gives me energy, so I'm always moving better, and the ball just feels better so I keep doing those good strokes to feel that ball more and more. But as soon as I stop playing I get jittery, like I need to burn a bunch of energy


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