Insights into blade and rubber changes..

[Wrighty67]

Hi all

I am considering some changes to my setup on both blade and rubber (both or either) and am looking for any thoughts or insight from those with more experience than I have.

By way of context, I am a fairly recently returned player - I played to a good standard previously and have solid stroke basics on both sides. My FH is without doubt my stronger side but my BH is catching up as a result a lot of work recently. I play an offensive and topspin focused game and am currently getting about 9h play a week including an hour with a coach and weekly matches. I enjoy equipment and it is no hardship now to test some - season has just finished for me.

Current setup is a DHS 301x with H3 Neo (39 and boosted) on FH and Donic Bluefire M1 on BH. I play pretty well with this and like the overall speed and feel of the blade, particularly the "gears" I feel it offers - soft for net play but harder and faster when I engage it. I don't think I struggle with the speed of the blade but that does not mean a slower one might be good for me.

I am considering the following blade options;

1. More of the same - a Long 5x blade. Similar style/speed to what I play but potentially with a softer feel
2. An all wood, slightly slower option - Nittaku Acoustic. Reason being maybe I will benefit as I re-develop, with a slower speed and higher touch blade that is highly regarded.

I have all the blades so can try them all.

Rubber options being considered;

1. Stay with H3 on FH (Maybe blue sponge) & BF on BH - I do like it but am conscious of the effort it requires to get the best out of it (I am 54 and fairly fit and strong)
2. Replace FH with Dignics 09C - reason being not having to boost, and also potentially less physical effort required for more impact/speed whilst retaining relatively harder feel of H3
3. Replace BH with H8-80 to try Chinese style and slightly softer on BH while I improve it further
4. Replace BH with Dignics 05 - maybe a similar feel to BF I use currently but an improvement?

With a blade like a Long 5x being a FH focused blade, is it going to play better with a faster rubber like Dignics 05 or BF on the BH than a Chinese style rubber?

Obviously there are lot's of potential combinations of the above, which makes it harder to plan how I evaluate what works - test blades first with similar rubbers or mix and match.

If there are any more obvious choices here that, based on the info I have provided, stand out to those who have been on a similar journey, then I would really welcome your thoughts;

Inner carbon vs all wood 5 ply blade

Chinese style rubbers vs tensor style rubbers -or a mix of both as is common.

Thanks in advance!

Peter

 

[dajdosta]

With a blade like a Long 5x being a FH focused blade, is it going to play better with a faster rubber like Dignics 05 or BF on the BH than a Chinese style rubber?

Better in what sense?

 

[Wrighty67]

Better in what sense?

I mean that a faster BH rubber may be a better match for the style of blade (it seems to be considered a more FH focused blade)

 

[dajdosta]

I mean that a faster BH rubber may be a better match for the style of blade (it seems to be considered a more FH focused blade)

I don't see how the rubber could match a style of the blade.
You choose rubber to match your style, not blade's.
If you want faster BH, choose faster rubber.

 

[Wrighty67]

I don't see how the rubber could match a style of the blade.
You choose rubber to match your style, not blade's.
If you want faster BH, choose faster rubber.

Fair comment - it was just a thought.

 

[IB66]

I don't see how the rubber could match a style of the blade.
You choose rubber to match your style, not blade's.
If you want faster BH, choose faster rubber.

Some blades are regarded as better matches for certain rubbers, some rubbers just don’t feel ‘at their’ best with a ‘soft’ / ‘hard’ / flexible / stiff blade etc
some think short pips play better on stiffer 7 ply blades, H3 by some, is thought of as quite a ‘picky’ rubber regarding blade choice.
Perhaps there is a case for matching certain blades to certain rubbers, but it’s likely that a players level / competence / proficiency / ability etc play a bigger part. And each person will ‘feel’ things differently!!

 

[SleepyMaster]

Long 5 actually works really well with 09c, even on both sides if your style is active two wing looper. No need to boos it. 09c not worked so well on acoustic forehand, at least form me. Dignics 05 on the backhand of long 5 is good - one of the best, if you have ability to use it, but can be tricky to master

 

[Wrighty67]

Long 5 actually works really well with 09c, even on both sides if your style is active two wing looper. No need to boos it. 09c not worked so well on acoustic forehand, at least form me. Dignics 05 on the backhand of long 5 is good - one of the best, if you have ability to use it, but can be tricky to master

That’s really helpful, thanks.

Can you explain why the 09c didn’t work so well with the Acoustic?

 

[thomas.pong]

Hi all

I am considering some changes to my setup on both blade and rubber (both or either) and am looking for any thoughts or insight from those with more experience than I have.

By way of context, I am a fairly recently returned player - I played to a good standard previously and have solid stroke basics on both sides. My FH is without doubt my stronger side but my BH is catching up as a result a lot of work recently. I play an offensive and topspin focused game and am currently getting about 9h play a week including an hour with a coach and weekly matches. I enjoy equipment and it is no hardship now to test some - season has just finished for me.

Current setup is a DHS 301x with H3 Neo (39 and boosted) on FH and Donic Bluefire M1 on BH. I play pretty well with this and like the overall speed and feel of the blade, particularly the "gears" I feel it offers - soft for net play but harder and faster when I engage it. I don't think I struggle with the speed of the blade but that does not mean a slower one might be good for me.

I am considering the following blade options;

1. More of the same - a Long 5x blade. Similar style/speed to what I play but potentially with a softer feel
2. An all wood, slightly slower option - Nittaku Acoustic. Reason being maybe I will benefit as I re-develop, with a slower speed and higher touch blade that is highly regarded.

I have all the blades so can try them all.

Rubber options being considered;

1. Stay with H3 on FH (Maybe blue sponge) & BF on BH - I do like it but am conscious of the effort it requires to get the best out of it (I am 54 and fairly fit and strong)
2. Replace FH with Dignics 09C - reason being not having to boost, and also potentially less physical effort required for more impact/speed whilst retaining relatively harder feel of H3
3. Replace BH with H8-80 to try Chinese style and slightly softer on BH while I improve it further
4. Replace BH with Dignics 05 - maybe a similar feel to BF I use currently but an improvement?

With a blade like a Long 5x being a FH focused blade, is it going to play better with a faster rubber like Dignics 05 or BF on the BH than a Chinese style rubber?

Obviously there are lot's of potential combinations of the above, which makes it harder to plan how I evaluate what works - test blades first with similar rubbers or mix and match.

If there are any more obvious choices here that, based on the info I have provided, stand out to those who have been on a similar journey, then I would really welcome your thoughts;

Inner carbon vs all wood 5 ply blade

Chinese style rubbers vs tensor style rubbers -or a mix of both as is common.

Thanks in advance!

Peter

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the detailed background, it will greatly help forum members in trying to give you good accurate input.

I'm going to keep my answer short because there's a lot in your post, since the options are endless, and you won't know until you try. I do think you have the right idea with the HL5 and Acoustic, they are trusted classics that could be good alternatives for you given your background and your current setup. I would have at least advised you tried the HL5 and probably the Acoustic or something like it had you not mentioned it, and have the same rubbers when testing them to get an accurate comparison and feel what what they bring you and any takeaways. The Acoustic is an excellent blade that has a excellent control and is very flexible so it can generate a lot of spin. If you find it too slow, a thicker classic 5-ply like the Korbel Japan could be worth a try to.

As for rubbers, it's best to not change too many elements, so either test different rubbers on your current blade, or your current rubbers on different blades. Keep in mind that blades are the base, rubbers are the adjustments/fine tuning.

1. Yes, keep the same rubber. You can try blue sponge, it is more demanding though, less room for error.
2. I don't know that D09C requires less physical effort per say, not in my experience at least, I actually found it to feel harder and less forgiving than H3N (even unboosted H3). I'm not a big fan of the hybrids, so if you want less physicality, I actually a classic hard Tenergy or tensor (I like Andro Rasanter R53).
3. Why not, but that it a very hard physically demanding change, more so than on the FH.
4. Why not, but if you like BF why not stay with it?

Cheers,

- Thomas

 

[Wrighty67]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the detailed background, it will greatly help forum members in trying to give you good accurate input.

I'm going to keep my answer short because there's a lot in your post, since the options are endless, and you won't know until you try. I do think you have the right idea with the HL5 and Acoustic, they are trusted classics that could be good alternatives for you given your background and your current setup. I would have at least advised you tried the HL5 and probably the Acoustic or something like it had you not mentioned it, and have the same rubbers when testing them to get an accurate comparison and feel what what they bring you and any takeaways. The Acoustic is an excellent blade that has a excellent control and is very flexible so it can generate a lot of spin. If you find it too slow, a thicker classic 5-ply like the Korbel Japan could be worth a try to.

As for rubbers, it's best to not change too many elements, so either test different rubbers on your current blade, or your current rubbers on different blades. Keep in mind that blades are the base, rubbers are the adjustments/fine tuning.

1. Yes, keep the same rubber. You can try blue sponge, it is more demanding though, less room for error.
2. I don't know that D09C requires less physical effort per say, not in my experience at least, I actually found it to feel harder and less forgiving than H3N (even unboosted H3). I'm not a big fan of the hybrids, so if you want less physicality, I actually a classic hard Tenergy or tensor (I like Andro Rasanter R53).
3. Why not, but that it a very hard physically demanding change, more so than on the FH.
4. Why not, but if you like BF why not stay with it?

Cheers,

- Thomas

Thanks Thomas, that’s really helpful and makes good sense.

I’m going to try the HL5 and Acoustic with similar rubbers first and see how they play, before tweaking anything else.

 

[SleepyMaster]

Can you explain why the 09c didn’t work so well with the Acoustic?

No problems! I have large handle acoustic 82 gr. With 09c it’s has really good control and spin, but lacked some power when i was making few steps from the table counter looping. maybe it’s the case of a blade weight. Maybe 09c works better with a carbon ( innerforce ) blades that i used to. Actually if u play allround close to the table accurate blocking/looping and take points mostly from placement than 09c/acoustic combo work for you. I used to power loop a lot, and my long5 or harimoro alc with 09c on forehand suits a lot better for it - you can just shoot rockets if needed to. It all depends on style and preferences

 

[NDH]

Long 5 actually works really well with 09c, even on both sides if your style is active two wing looper. No need to boos it. 09c not worked so well on acoustic forehand, at least form me. Dignics 05 on the backhand of long 5 is good - one of the best, if you have ability to use it, but can be tricky to master

Not trying to be a d**k, but it’s probably worth mentioning that you’ve only been playing for 8 months at this point.

It’s the drawback to Internet forums, where you can’t be sure of people’s experience, ability and how much you can take from their comments.

I think it’s great that you’ve managed to improve at such a rapid rate, and I’m sure there will be plenty of others who would love to heat your journey.

You should start a thread with videos if you have them - The progress you said you’d made in the 8 months of playing is unheard of! 😃

 

[Wrighty67]

No problems! I have large handle acoustic 82 gr. With 09c it’s has really good control and spin, but lacked some power when i was making few steps from the table counter looping. maybe it’s the case of a blade weight. Maybe 09c works better with a carbon ( innerforce ) blades that i used to. Actually if u play allround close to the table accurate blocking/looping and take points mostly from placement than 09c/acoustic combo work for you. I used to power loop a lot, and my long5 or harimoro alc with 09c on forehand suits a lot better for it - you can just shoot rockets if needed to. It all depends on style and preferences

Thanks - that’s helpful to know. I know the Acoustic will be slower but will it be too slow for me, I’ll have to find out..

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

One thing I will say, and I know I say this pretty much any time I jump on one of these types of threads where someone is asking for equipment recommendations.

If you want to mess around and try different things, go for it. Not a problem. Have fun. See what you like. But what you like and what will be best for you.....they are not always the same thing. Hopefully you can figure that out.

However, if you want comments that are actually helpful to you about equipment that might be good for you to use, then you would need to post footage. If random people of various levels on the forum are giving you recommendations on what was good for them or what they think will be good for you, and nobody has seen you play, it is doubtful that the recommendations will actually be in line with what you need. And words to describe how one plays, I cannot tell you how many people have sent me video footage via PM after giving detailed description of how they played only to find the video footage and the descriptions of play just do not line up at all. I have had very high level players describe their play in a way that made it seem like they were lower level than they were and vice versa.

By the way, taking footage and watching footage will be helpful to you even if you don't post it. You seeing the footage is valuable.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

More info: blades are not FH oriented or BH oriented. That is in people's heads.

There are blades where the handle is set at an angle to make it easier to open to the FH and that would be different. But most blades produced by most TT manufacturers are not like that and are 100% neutral to whether you are FH dominant or BH dominant.

Just choose a blade or blades that work for you and use it. Same with rubbers. People in TT seem to talk about specific rubbers working better with one blade than another. I think what is going on there is that someone used a rubber on one blade and then felt the same rubber on a different blade and they did not like how the rubber felt on that second blade. But it has nothing to do with what the rubber does and how it works.

How a rubber grips the ball, how the ball sinks into the topsheet and stretches the sponge, that will be the same on a blade with a Koto top ply (harder top ply) or a Limba top ply (softer top ply), it will be the same on an inner carbon or an outer carbon. The blade construction may determine how soon the ball is propelled out from the rubber or if it will have that millisecond of more time for the rubber to hold and grab the ball. But the blade will not change how the rubber works. Blades do what they do. Rubbers do what they do. And if you use any blade rubber combination and use it for long enough to develop your technique with the combination, you will get used to HOW TO USE THAT setup so your technique will develop around that.

Feel free to play around with equipment and find what makes you happy. But what will cause you to improve, regardless of what you use IS TRAINING combined strategically with MATCH PLAY.

 

[Wrighty67]

One thing I will say, and I know I say this pretty much any time I jump on one of these types of threads where someone is asking for equipment recommendations.

If you want to mess around and try different things, go for it. Not a problem. Have fun. See what you like. But what you like and what will be best for you.....they are not always the same thing. Hopefully you can figure that out.

However, if you want comments that are actually helpful to you about equipment that might be good for you to use, then you would need to post footage. If random people of various levels on the forum are giving you recommendations on what was good for them or what they think will be good for you, and nobody has seen you play, it is doubtful that the recommendations will actually be in line with what you need. And words to describe how one plays, I cannot tell you how many people have sent me video footage via PM after giving detailed description of how they played only to find the video footage and the descriptions of play just do not line up at all. I have had very high level players describe their play in a way that made it seem like they were lower level than they were and vice versa.

By the way, taking footage and watching footage will be helpful to you even if you don't post it. You seeing the footage is valuable.

All fair comments, thank you.

I don’t have any footage yet, but will get some for sure.

 

[IB66]

Long 5 is considered to be a great blade for looping, I found it to be ‘sensitive’ in that added power put into strokes is sort of exaggerated, so balls went longer than I thought they would, more of my inability to adjust correctly!!
I think with this blade you have to be more precise with adjustments.

Acoustic all wood is definitely slower, and easier to be in control of. It’s more predictable.
If you are thinking it may be too slow, you could go for the ‘inner carbon’ model which retains the general feel of the all wood version but is slightly faster. It’s still more predictable than the Long 5.
I haven’t used the ‘outer carbon’ version, but again this will be faster.
As a rough guide the acoustic inner carbon was about 350 to 500mm longer than the all wood version.
What I mean by this is that when playing v robot, similar FH topspin strokes resulted in the ball bouncing 350 - 500mm further down the table with the ‘inner’ carbon version.

I haven’t used my Long 5 in a while (about 2 yrs) and don’t intend to!! For someone of my level / ability I think it’s a beast and needs careful handling!! I was using H3 Neo provincial or H8 on FH( from memory) unboosted!!!
As Carl said, if you stick with something you will get use to it, but will it actually be ‘better’ for your development?

 

[Wrighty67]

Long 5 is considered to be a great blade for looping, I found it to be ‘sensitive’ in that added power put into strokes is sort of exaggerated, so balls went longer than I thought they would, more of my inability to adjust correctly!!
I think with this blade you have to be more precise with adjustments.

Acoustic all wood is definitely slower, and easier to be in control of. It’s more predictable.
If you are thinking it may be too slow, you could go for the ‘inner carbon’ model which retains the general feel of the all wood version but is slightly faster. It’s still more predictable than the Long 5.
I haven’t used the ‘outer carbon’ version, but again this will be faster.
As a rough guide the acoustic inner carbon was about 350 to 500mm longer than the all wood version.
What I mean by this is that when playing v robot, similar FH topspin strokes resulted in the ball bouncing 350 - 500mm further down the table with the ‘inner’ carbon version.

I haven’t used my Long 5 in a while (about 2 yrs) and don’t intend to!! For someone of my level / ability I think it’s a beast and needs careful handling!! I was using H3 Neo provincial or H8 on FH( from memory) unboosted!!!
As Carl said, if you stick with something you will get use to it, but will it actually be ‘better’ for your development?

Thanks for the insight - I have the all wood Acoustic so I think it will be interesting to see how these two blades compare using similar rubbers.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Thanks for the insight - I have the all wood Acoustic so I think it will be interesting to see how these two blades compare using similar rubbers.

Yeah, in the end, if you try all the blades you have with all the rubbers you have, and you try each rubber on both wings just for seeing how they feel on each wing, you will learn a few things about what you like and what you don't like CURRENTLY.

One thing to note about that, what you like now, may not be what you like 1 year from now or 3 years from now. And another note, what you like is not always what will be best for you. Sometimes you find a setup that feels a little underwhelming while doing certain kinds of training and then you play a match and you do a lot better than you would with some equipment that may "feel" better during training.

 

[Brs]

I am considering some changes to my setup on both blade and rubber
...
Current setup is a DHS 301x with H3 Neo (39 and boosted) on FH and Donic Bluefire M1 on BH. I play pretty well with this and like the overall speed and feel of the blade

Peter

Don't change. This part of your post is enough to see that you are good with what you have.

Or, if you are set on changing, do it for the fun of trying new stuff and not in the hope that it will make you play better. It won't.