ITTF World Team Table Tennis Championships Finals Busan 2024

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Why??? According to TB and Longie, isn't it some random accident that has no significance and relation to playing level?

yeah, apparently so, haha
but some how that list has famous people on

if it is easy, then it should happen more and more often

 

[Shine]

Why??? According to TB and Longie, isn't it some random accident that has no significance and relation to playing level?

It has a strong relation, but FTW is an outlier.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Here comes the question again, is the dominance of china in table tennis fading? It has never happened before in this century that china won 3:2 twice in like five hours and both wins were coming back wins from 1:2 down. With no promising young players and senior members getting older, will China still dominate in the coming ten years?

I have a couple of good friends linked to CNT.
when the change in coaching happened, I asked a Beijing one, why Qin left
his answer was, to protect his own life, if he continues, his health will kill him.
I was found of Qin's coaching style, that I did a farewell on my social media. And I actually shared some before and after photos of his stint, from personal coach of CNT players to team head coach.

Look at Wang Hao and Ma Lin now, look how they have aged.... these 2 are my role models as a penholder growing up. and now.... with Ma Lin sitting down while the girls are standing and appluading, the pressure is so much that he can't even stand up and boost out the energy, he is withholding the pressure.

When China had a good depth of players, you won't see much of the 25 ~ 30 year old bystanders.
your main players will play into the 25 ~ 30, and the bystander spot will be for incoming hopefuls.

Now of the 10 players,
here are the ages
ML 35
FZD 27
WCQ 23
LJK 27
LGY 28
avg mens: 28

SYS 23
CM 30
WYD 27
WMY 25
CXT 26
avg womens: 26.2

Beijing friend told me, many years ago, both Beijing and Shanghai are struggling to full the "provincial team" with quality juniors.
before parents were begging for sports school intakes, now sport school are scouting for players to join.
and his view, (back then), the quality of intake going into provincial team will drop, and the same to national

and guess what, now you are asking me will they still dominate in 10 years.

I kindof miss the world vs China

Maybe should have a XD world cup of World vs China

some special source, to show my sources is not only "anti CNT"
to combact the problem, CNT has now a "C team".
I won't talk about it today. lol (but for ones that reads my posts and have a good memory, i'm sure I talked about his last year or 2022 already)

 

[tackyfh]

Beijing friend told me, many years ago, both Beijing and Shanghai are struggling to full the "provincial team" with quality juniors.
before parents were begging for sports school intakes, now sport school are scouting for players to join.
and his view, (back then), the quality of intake going into provincial team will drop, and the same to national

and guess what, now you are asking me will they still dominate in 10 years.

I've seen some comments around weibo and baidu saying that "young chinese doesn't pay attention to table tennis as much as before" each time they discuss about CNT junior training compared to Japan and Taiwan. Seems like this problem is much more pronounced now that you mentioned.

 

[Shine]

I think the match first and foremost even lies on Felix beating Wang. If that happens, I actually think he can beat FZD. Whoever can give one more win will be the hero. But if Felix doesn't beat Wang, the momentum will be impossible to break.

I think the match first and foremost even lies on Felix beating Wang. If that happens, I actually think he can beat FZD. Whoever can give one more win will be the hero. But if Felix doesn't beat Wang, the momentum will be impossible to break.

Felix Vs Wang is not a surety. I think you're not factoring that into the equation
China can tweak their layout and ensure Fan faces Felix first, and Wang Alexis. Ma Long facing Gauzy is a no-brainer. China can win the aforementioned matchups 3-0 if everything works out in their favour.
So Felix Vs Wang may not be earlier than match 4, Imagine a situation where France is down 1-2 and Wang is confident, floating like a butterfly, and stinging like a bee. There may not be much momentum for Felix to work with.
So Alexis has to pull out all stops to win tomorrow, because Felix can and has lost twice to Fan before.
If Alexis wins, and Felix loses, but Felix goes into match 4 against Wang with France leading 2-1; now that's some momentum!!!

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I've seen some comments around weibo and baidu saying that "young chinese doesn't pay attention to table tennis as much as before" each time they discuss about CNT junior training compared to Japan and Taiwan. Seems like this problem is much more pronounced now that you mentioned.

I also heard from a very respectable high level (international) TT figure that Taiwan's elementary school age TT system is more advance than China (in the same age group).
This was 2019.

I'm more with the U13~U19 space. I actually don't know the elementary system that well, but that friend of mine visited all of the reputable schools and saw 50 to 80+kids training per school.
and that motivated me to visit a noisy tournament of something like 24 tables of U9, U10, U11, U12 and having 600+ entries per gender/age group. Its called the Taiwan Elite tournament where there is a cap on entry, and the best of the best would enter and the one I visited was 1 of 4 regions.
That year, of the 4 age groups (x 2 for gender), 8 events, there was over 5500 entries.
give and take, 1 in 10 take parts, maybe even 1 in 20, the 4 age group could have say min 50000 TT population in the country.
Taiwan has 23 million people, or a birth count of 135k.
so to have say 13k players at 1 age, of the 135k student population for that age, is a really high population ratio.

20 years ago, Taiwan doesn't have this time number and I went to also investigate how Taiwan went from minority TT strong sport school team model to every school has TT team and now the "new" teams are beating conventional TT sport school teams.

Taiwan is getting stronger, but there are also a lot of challenges, of which it will be for another day

 

[TensorBackhand]

Why??? According to TB and Longie, isn't it some random accident that has no significance and relation to playing level?

Here you go again, misrepresenting, I never said it has no significance.

It is one day of data amongst many more.

Regardless, I always believed back in 2018 that Harimoto had the ability to beat CNT players because he beat ML and ZJK and LGY. 2022 didn't change my opinion, and 2023 didn't change my opinion.

 

[driversbeat]

In my humble opinion, team Japan made 4 grave mistakes:

1. Not playing Hirano in position 1 or 2. They wasted their best player on Wang Yidi.
2. In retrospect, not playing Miwa in position 3. Her inexperience was magnified in the final.
3. Hayata trying to play a rhythm disruption game against SYS on the big stage instead of going all out forehand. That was the only time she had a semblance of advantage in the rallies.
4. Late timeout at 1-1, 8-9 in the final match. At 8-7, Miwa had already lost 3 points in the forehand crossover. That game was too, too crucial.

Miwa had all the tools to beat Chen Meng, but not the experience. She beat Chen Meng in nearly all of the open rallies, but made too many fatal service and receive errors. But she can't be blamed for her age. Congrats to JNT for giving us one of the best finals we've seen in forever, congrats to Hayata for finally cracking the big 3 (the real ones), congrats to Ito for reintegrating into the team, and to Hirano for proving all her naysayers wrong by being the only player in the WTTC final to have a 100% win rate (even SYS dropped one match). To Kihara, I wanted to see you running up to your Kinoshita BFF Miwa when the championship point was won, but alas it was not to be. Still, it's great to see the five of them working together as one team. Perhaps Ito will reconsider the P card position and maybe Japan can regroup to take the bigger Olympic team gold, however slim their chances may be.

 

[zeio]

Select Tieba comments...

赛后采访大梦莎莎全哭了 大迪一脸淡定 (After the match, Big Meng and Shasha were in tears during the interview | Dadi put up a poker face)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8908863332 (check out WYD's priceless expression)
78纳
2024釜山世乒赛中国队获得女团冠军赛后
孙颖莎：我觉得首先非常开心能够赢下这场决赛吧，今天整场比赛我觉得我们双方六名运动员来说发挥的都非常精彩，最后我们能够赢下比赛还是非常开心吧。我也非常感谢我的队员们，我们今天也都拼尽全力，我们自己也挺为自己感动的。我觉得还是面对比赛的准备吧，一上来对美和，她现在也是年轻选手里面相当出色的了，她的球也具有一定的攻击力，面对第一场比赛也是队伍的第一场吧，首先做好自己的前提下也是给队伍开一个好头。
陈梦：团体赛里面输球，尤其是今天对日本队，她们的整体实力我觉得也是这几年实力最整齐最强的一次，这次莎莎我觉得特别优秀吧，在一比二落后这么困难的情况下能够把比分扳平到二比二，上场的时候我真正的感觉到了团队的这种力量，跟队友之间互相的鼓励吧。面对一个十五六岁的小将的冲击，确实在场上不太舒服，但是能够赢下来这个冠军也是对于中国队，对于观众朋友最好的元宵节礼物吧。
IP属地:宁夏来自iPhone客户端1楼2024-02-24 23:19回复
After the Team China won the WT event of WTTC 2024 Busan
Sun Yingsha: I think first of all I am very happy to win this final. I think the six players from both teams played very well in the whole match today. I am very happy that we were able to win the match in the end. I am also very grateful to my teammates. We all tried our best today, and we are very touched by ourselves. I think it came down to pre-match preparation. Facing off Miwa from the getgo, she is now quite outstanding among the young players. Her shots also have a certain offensive power. My first match is also the first match for the team, on the premise of doing my best first, I also gave the team a good start.
Chen Meng: Losing in the team competition, especially against Team Japan today, I think their overall strength is the most consistent and strongest in the past few years. I think Shasha is particularly outstanding this time. Under the very difficult situation of trailing 1-2, she was able to equalize the score to 2-2. When I came on the court, I really felt the power of the team and encouraged each other with my teammates. Facing the impact of a 15 or 16-year-old youngster, it was indeed uncomfortable on the court, but being able to win this championship is the best Lantern Festival gift for Team China and the audience.

当然是陈梦和孙颖莎哭 (Of course it was Chen Meng and Sun Yingsha who cried)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8908861605
X97 要我说这次比赛是近几年最精彩的了，荡气回肠，可以说这场下来没有真正的输家，每个人都实现了自己高光。早田终于过了国乒又一名主力，平野实现横扫，美和年纪小，这次比赛后绝对能成长不少。国乒这边莎莎独砍两分，捍卫世一地位，陈梦决胜盘逆转，实现老将救赎。所以这次比赛每个人都是赢家，没有真正意义的输家！对吧大迪？
IP属地:北京来自iPhone客户端11楼2024-02-25 00:43回复
I would say that this match was the most exciting in recent years. It was heart-wrenching. It can be said that there was no real loser in this match. Everyone achieved their own highlights. Hayata finally passed another CNT core player, Hirano achieved a shutout, Miwa is young and will definitely grow a lot after this tournament. On the CNT side, Shasha scored two points alone to defend her status as the World No.1. Chen Meng turned the tables in the final set and achieved veteran redemption. So everyone is a winner here, there are no real losers! Right, Big Di?

大家都别骂迪女了 (Everyone, stop scolding daughter Di)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8908876902
小福猪猪 也别骂大迪了，但凡把平野放到一二单，也大概会赢一个，本次世乒赛平野是全胜战绩，打的还都很轻松 (Don't scold Big Di. If Hirano was put in 1st or 2nd singles, she would likely win one. In this WTTC, Hirano has an undefeated record and she didn't break a sweat.)
IP属地:山东来自Android客户端7楼2024-02-24 23:52收起回复
汗耗鸟: 哈哈哈应该给平野颁一个MVP (Hahaha, Hirano should be awarded an MVP)
2024-2-24 23:56回复
最讨厌皇族胖子: 骂她也没用，她就不是这个位置的人 (There's no point in scolding her, she's not the person for this position)
2024-2-24 23:59回复
小福猪猪: 回复 汗耗鸟 :我早说过平野是本子上限最高的，发起疯来不好办，大迪赶上了无奈啊 (I have said before that Hirano has the highest ceiling for Japan. It is difficult to handle when she goes crazy. Big Di is unfortunately caught in the middle of it)
2024-2-25 00:01回复

幸运的xiemaoji 其实吧，输给平野也很正常，虽然人家被研究很多年了，但也有一直在涨球，又不是原地踏步，不然连莎莎都输给过她，这绝不是偶然，人家确实上限很高，但王一迪真的整场看下来就是打得太笨了，没变化，也不想办法，是真的蠢，不知道怎么说她，而且还一副无所谓的样子，好像是被逼着上去完成任务一样，真的就是个混子
IP属地:湖南来自Android客户端11楼2024-02-25 00:02收起回复
Actually, losing to Hirano is normal. Although she has been studied for many years, her game has been improving and is not standing still. Even Shasha has lost to her. This is by no means an isolated case. Her upper limit is indeed very high. However, Wang Yidi really looked like she was playing too dumb throughout the whole match. There was no variation, and she couldn't think of a solution. She was really dumb. I didn't know what to say about her, and she looked indifferent, as if she was being forced to complete the mission. She is really a weasel

【技术分析】王下鱼上，早田进步 最可怕的是伊藤 ([Technical Analysis] Down with WYD and up with WMY, Hayata makes progress | The most terrifying thing is Ito)
hasta 今晚日本队最大的工程莫过于伊藤美诚…. (The biggest project [likely a typo, hero] for Team Japan tonight has got to be Ito Mima...)
IP属地:四川来自iPhone客户端1楼2024-02-24 23:18回复
活宝王女士123 世乒赛最佳教练，军师 (Best coach and strategist in this WTTC)
IP属地:河北来自Android客户端2楼2024-02-24 23:23回复
250_ 日本那个教练是做什么用的，吉祥物吗 (What is that Japanese coach for? A mascot?)
IP属地:北京来自iPhone客户端3楼2024-02-24 23:29回复
tj55795 伊藤美诚奥运给带上。 (Bring Ito Mima along to the Olympics)
IP属地:四川4楼2024-02-24 23:30回复
草莓味的糯米团子 你不愧是伊藤粉 (You are indeed an Ito fan)
IP属地:河北来自iPhone客户端5楼2024-02-25 00:09回复
我见银河 今天伊藤在场边暂停的时候，给队友说了不少，尤其是队友在对孙颖莎和陈梦的时候，可能在对孙颖莎和陈梦方面，伊藤确实也有她自己的一套心得体会吧 (Ito said a lot to her teammates during timeouts today, especially when her teammates were playing Sun Yingsha and Chen Meng. Perhaps Ito did have her own set of experiences with Sun Yingsha and Chen Meng)
IP属地:山东来自Android客户端7楼2024-02-25 00:33回复

女乒剧本效果拉满 (The script for women's table tennis is full of drama)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8908854167
中国小排骨 决赛一战，孙颖莎砍两分证明自己一单实力，奖励分拿到2300，釜山之后奥运总积分达到21833，持续断层
陈梦赢一场输一场，被早田女仆翻身实属不应该，但决胜盘守住底线力挽狂澜，助力国乒考比伦杯六连，并且拿下292世排+1500奖励，釜山之后世排4527重返第二，奥运积分10457女队第二位破万
王艺迪本身要是拿下胜场可以继续在世排以微弱优势压住老梦，现在无希望了，2.27-3.5这一周世排三，3.5清掉果阿之后世排四
IP属地:山东来自Android客户端1楼2024-02-24 23:08回复
In the final, Sun Yingsha scored two points to prove her 1st singles strength, and got 2,300 bonus points. After Busan, the total Olympic points have reached 21,833, continuing to widen the gap
Chen Meng won one and lost one. It was a definite no-no to be turned over by maid Hayata. However, she held the bottom line in the final set and turned the tide, helping the CNT to raise the Corbillion Cup six consecutive times and got the 292 WR points + 1500 bonus points. After Busan, the WR points are 4527, returning to WR2, and the Olympic points are 10,457, second on the team to exceed 10,000 points
Had Wang Yidi taken the wins, she would continue to suppress Old Meng with a slight advantage in world ranking. Now there is no hope. In the week of 2/27-3/5, she will be ranked 3rd, and after clearing WTT SCT Goa 2023 on 3/5, she will be ranked 4th

 

[Tempest/Comet]

compassion & kindness…all heart…

 

[zeio]

and to Hirano for proving all her naysayers wrong by being the only player in the WTTC final to have a 100% win rate (even SYS dropped one match).

Fun fact:
With 8 wins, Hirano (24/2 in games won/lost) has equaled Ito's (24/4) record at WTTC 2018. Kudos to Ashtari for pushing Hirano to the brink!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UibK89WFGKw

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/wtt-champions-frankfurt-2023.32185/post-429419

It's very clear by now that, in this cycle, Hirano's true form only comes out when her back is against the ropes. Her target is Ito. Her other teammates are on the back burner. Her ~57% win rate against China in 2022 and 2023 isn't just for show.

 

[Shine]

In my humble opinion, team Japan made 4 grave mistakes:

1. Not playing Hirano in position 1 or 2. They wasted their best player on Wang Yidi.
2. In retrospect, not playing Miwa in position 3. Her inexperience was magnified in the final.
3. Hayata trying to play a rhythm disruption game against SYS on the big stage instead of going all out forehand. That was the only time she had a semblance of advantage in the rallies.
4. Late timeout at 1-1, 8-9 in the final match. At 8-7, Miwa had already lost 3 points in the forehand crossover. That game was too, too crucial.

Miwa had all the tools to beat Chen Meng, but not the experience. She beat Chen Meng in nearly all of the open rallies, but made too many fatal service and receive errors. But she can't be blamed for her age. Congrats to JNT for giving us one of the best finals we've seen in forever, congrats to Hayata for finally cracking the big 3 (the real ones), congrats to Ito for reintegrating into the team, and to Hirano for proving all her naysayers wrong by being the only player in the WTTC final to have a 100% win rate (even SYS dropped one match). To Kihara, I wanted to see you runningto your Kinoshita BFF Miwa when the championship point was won, but alas it was not to be. Still, it's great to see the five of them working together as one team. Perhaps Ito will reconsider the P card position and maybe Japan can regroup to take the bigger Olympic team gold, however slim their chances may be.

I agree with you on the 4 points
But winning in "open rallies" is hardly a consolation point. We've not even factored in CM's unfamiliarity with Miwa's serves. Big Dream too lost a boatload of points on receive errors. The match came down to who was trickier in the serve and receive.The open rallies weren't even much. Even Miwa has opined in the past that she thinks her serve gave WMY and SYS problems. SYS look to have familiarised herself with the serves, what happens when CM and the others get a couple more matches in against Miwa ??

Any way, her opponent is not CM. CM probably retires this year or the next.
Her real opponents are SYS, WMY, maybe even KM. We'll see how the future goes.

 

[NextLevel]

Felix Vs Wang is not a surety. I think you're not factoring that into the equation
China can tweak their layout and ensure Fan faces Felix first, and Wang Alexis. Ma Long facing Gauzy is a no-brainer. China can win the aforementioned matchups 3-0 if everything works out in their favour.
So Felix Vs Wang may not be earlier than match 4, Imagine a situation where France is down 1-2 and Wang is confident, floating like a butterfly, and stinging like a bee. There may not be much momentum for Felix to work with.
So Alexis has to pull out all stops to win tomorrow, because Felix can and has lost twice to Fan before.
If Alexis wins, and Felix loses, but Felix goes into match 4 against Wang with France leading 2-1; now that's some momentum!!!

I think playing your strongest player outside the power slot is asking for a lot of second guessing when things go wrong. Think about the massive security having Sun Yingsha and Fan Zhendong in the power slot gave their teams. In any case, it will communicate a healthy respect for Felix.

 

[Emin]

After Watching Fan Zhendongs 2 matches, I dont see ANY chance that he will lose more than 1 set in total tomorrow.
Yes Felix is Good and all that, BUT
Fan Zhendong played like a beast today and might be back to unstoppable form.
No shakiness, almost no errors.
If nothing majorly disturbing happens to him, he will dominate both Felix and the other one.

I am predicting a 3-1 or 3-0 for China tomorrow.
Fan will win his 2 games.
Ma Long can beat Gauzy/Alexis, even at his current age and form.
Wang Chuqin could get nervous or get overwhelmed by Felix, but its largely based on how he and his Team can prepare him mentally for the match.

To put it simply:
Fan Zhendong Will Not Lose!

 

[zeio]

Could you guys identify any adjustments made by WYD? Me neither. Hirano Miu, thanks to the masterful direction of coach Ito, adjusted with banana flick receives. WYD kept on challenging Hirano with BH exchanges that she didn't have an advantage in. Another sign that Ma Lin really needs to retire!

In a 5-minute interview, Guo Yan actually pointed out WYD's flaw after 4-1 Ito in the WS F at Hong Kong Open 2018.

Never thought it would come in handy almost 6 years later. Good thing I persevered (in torturing myself) and translated that video.

郭焱：与伊藤斗智斗勇很有意思 王艺迪贯彻战术突破自己
(Original video is dead) https://video.zhibo.tv/detail/video/94887.html

I saw you grin after the last point
After arriving in Hong Kong, the pressure was immense for the coaching staff
With a young squad, we still wanted to win the titles
One is we want them to get a work out
Two is we want them to...in the final
Our major opponents were on duty here
We wanted them to put up a good performance
have one of them reach the final and clinch the title
Why do you think Wang Yidi could win in straight games
Throughout the years
the women's team has never met an opposition as strong as Ito
In the early half of the year, from the WTTC
I feel the CNT has achieved the goal of working as a team
Every player has done her part
We earned a great deal of titles in the WTTC
and SYS beat Ito as well
But for China Open, we also witnessed how Ito played
and WYD didn't play bad, meeting Ito in R32
I feel including DN's defeat...
When treating losses against Ito, it's true we underestimated her
We could shut her out in terms of techniques and tactics
But her resilience, her ability to mix and match techniques and tactics
I feel the women's team has never faced such a player in years
Therefore, for us the coaching staff, key players included
all of them feel the immense pressure
But in terms of competitive sport, this couldn't get any better
So I told WYD before the match that this would be a contest of wit and grit
Don't think...to prove yourself on the court
If you wanted to prove yourself
then you'd have to execute the tactics as well as possible
You have to know your opponent inside out, and you have to play by the ear in real time
You have to keep your cool
For WYD, her flaw lies in that
she is prone to getting carried away and losing control when she has the lead
So today, I feel she's overcome herself
Even though she defeated Ito, I feel it's more about overcoming herself
very clear-minded in observing the flow and use of tactics
You called TO at 8:5 in game 4. What was the reason?
When it was 8:4, I kept thinking at that score
I noticed WYD could lose control there
She's told me her mind would black out when she leads, not knowing how to play and so on
We were prepared for that
so I called TO right away
I wanted her to think over that point more
In today's match, she has the absolute upper hand in serve and receive
You couldn't give Ito easy points
That's the reason behind my call
I saw you go over the loss with Sun Mingyang
I feel the coaching staff has studied Ito well, but it still comes down to the player's execution
Yea, a match never goes smoothly against Ito
Ito's strength lies in that she might've lost today
but she could come up with a new solution in 2, or even 1 week
That's why I claim the women's team has never faced such a player in a long time

She just doesn't surrender
[Ishikawa: I'm so jeally]

Her game keeps evolving
This is why all those who have beat her once
never feel they have the complete upper hand
Whether she loses or wins, and same for us
that's when we study her more in-depth
Especially for those after meeting her once
they could notice Ito's flaws
but those wins were from a long while ago
yet they still view her with the old mindset
I feel that's where they're mistaken
When communicating with the players, that's the train of thought we observe
but players still have their own thinking
For that, we have to give them pointers
How will this win help in the Japan Open?
I feel we have accomplished our objective really well here in Hong Kong
Despite losing in the XD, the women's team has done a good job
This is a breakthrough for WYD, giving the team a lift
Hopefully, this will serve as a template for how to play Ito
As I believe the strength of CNT is very strong
Ito has only a small team analyzing for her
but we have an army studying her here
Honestly, when studying a player, our team feels it couldn't get any better to have such a strong opponent
Thank you, coach Guo. Good work

 

[dingyibvs]

I also heard from a very respectable high level (international) TT figure that Taiwan's elementary school age TT system is more advance than China (in the same age group).
This was 2019.

I'm more with the U13~U19 space. I actually don't know the elementary system that well, but that friend of mine visited all of the reputable schools and saw 50 to 80+kids training per school.
and that motivated me to visit a noisy tournament of something like 24 tables of U9, U10, U11, U12 and having 600+ entries per gender/age group. Its called the Taiwan Elite tournament where there is a cap on entry, and the best of the best would enter and the one I visited was 1 of 4 regions.
That year, of the 4 age groups (x 2 for gender), 8 events, there was over 5500 entries.
give and take, 1 in 10 take parts, maybe even 1 in 20, the 4 age group could have say min 50000 TT population in the country.
Taiwan has 23 million people, or a birth count of 135k.
so to have say 13k players at 1 age, of the 135k student population for that age, is a really high population ratio.

20 years ago, Taiwan doesn't have this time number and I went to also investigate how Taiwan went from minority TT strong sport school team model to every school has TT team and now the "new" teams are beating conventional TT sport school teams.

Taiwan is getting stronger, but there are also a lot of challenges, of which it will be for another day

I bet all those new Taiwanese elementary school programs cost money? Do you think it gives Taiwan an unfair advantage over countries like say Vietnam who doesn't have the money to set up these types of programs for their kids? Perhaps the ITTF should add a 4th category to their chase for fairness - training? Maybe all countries should pool their money dedicated to training the youth so they can be spread evenly between all countries of the world.

 

[TensorBackhand]

In my humble opinion, team Japan made 4 grave mistakes:

1. Not playing Hirano in position 1 or 2. They wasted their best player on Wang Yidi.
2. In retrospect, not playing Miwa in position 3. Her inexperience was magnified in the final.
3. Hayata trying to play a rhythm disruption game against SYS on the big stage instead of going all out forehand. That was the only time she had a semblance of advantage in the rallies.
4. Late timeout at 1-1, 8-9 in the final match. At 8-7, Miwa had already lost 3 points in the forehand crossover. That game was too, too crucial.

Miwa had all the tools to beat Chen Meng, but not the experience. She beat Chen Meng in nearly all of the open rallies, but made too many fatal service and receive errors. But she can't be blamed for her age. Congrats to JNT for giving us one of the best finals we've seen in forever, congrats to Hayata for finally cracking the big 3 (the real ones), congrats to Ito for reintegrating into the team, and to Hirano for proving all her naysayers wrong by being the only player in the WTTC final to have a 100% win rate (even SYS dropped one match). To Kihara, I wanted to see you running up to your Kinoshita BFF Miwa when the championship point was won, but alas it was not to be. Still, it's great to see the five of them working together as one team. Perhaps Ito will reconsider the P card position and maybe Japan can regroup to take the bigger Olympic team gold, however slim their chances may be.

I personally think Japan gave it their best shot. Miwa took SYS to 7 games very recently, I think they were "rolling the dice" a bit to see if she could do it again and maybe steal a win in match 1.

And Miwa had some good chances against Chen Meng as well.

 

[zeio]

Never been on the Harimoto train especially considering her age, I think as someone said on this forum earlier; they were betting on the 2nd and 3rd game working out in their way. Perhaps betting on matches 1,2,3 would have a better strategy.

Again, like I've said earlier on this platform; On the big stage Japan is not treating Hirano fairly. Some folks was talking about the sancrosanct place for Hayata in the pecking order. Why is team picking Harimoto over Hirano to play 2 singles is the main question. There was shades of all of this in the XWTC but looks like nothing is gonna change. Hirano is playing in Singles in the Olympics, why not let her face SYS and CM in this competition?? She has better odds than Miwa even before the match simply because she's beaten them before. I fear Japan prioritizing Hayata and Miwa will put a dent to Miu's confidence. Even if Miwa is "champion" in Japan, she's still too young for the big stage. That 2-3 result is biting the JNT in the ass, when her stable state PCV against SYS has been 0-3. Anyway, the deed is done.

If it didn't work out at WTTC with all singles, then no chance at Olympics with their weaker doubles.

Having 3 players take 1 point each here requires the Ito from 2018/2019. I doubt Harimoto (first WTTC and first team final) could beat WYD (second WTTC and first team final) under all that pressure after almost losing to DHK the day before. Perhaps Kihara (second WTTC) could have been up to it, given that she has won before and played in the team final last time. Speaking of that, this is only Hirano's second WTTC and second team final and Hayata's second WTTC and first team final. Those 8 years really set Harimoto apart here. Miwa's brother was not even 15 back at WTTC 2018 and he was the starting player against KOR in QF and lost to JYS (also lost to Pitchford in match 2 in Grp).

Here is another factor. It seems Watanabe was either not aware of the CNT lineup being limited by the selection system, or that he didn't believe they would really go by the book, as he told the media that he expected WMY to play in the post-match interview after the SF match against HKG. He also gave his reasoning on fielding Harimoto first in that match and Hirano third throughout. I guess it's the same reasoning for the final.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...-race-to-tokyo-2020-singles.20935/post-295174

Theoretically, Ito and Hayata could play in both the doubles and singles, plus Hirano for another singles. Just like what CNT did in the final.

Either win 3-0 or lose 0-3. Like how Sweden did it in '89. Better than going in with a "I'll try to take 1 match" attitude.

日本女子、5大会連続で中国との頂上決戦へ　渡辺監督「選手たちの気持ちも乗ってきている」＜世界卓球2024＞
https://rallys.online/topic/international/20240223wttc-japan/

＜ストレート勝利だったが、3選手の戦いぶりは？＞
相手の杜凱琹選手が準々決勝でもプレーの出来が良く警戒していた。今回の試合も出だしで2ゲームを先に取られて、好調だなと思った。正直厳しいかと思ったが、そこから本当によく（張本が）盛り返してくれました。

早田はエースとしてしっかり抑えてくれたので、うまく平野に繋げられたかなと。平野も今日は相当振り切れていた。3人とも良い感じで戦えていました。

＜1番：張本、2番：早田、3番：平野のオーダーだったが、意図や狙いは？＞
昨日は張本が出ていなかったので、勝ってもらいたいなと思って、自信もって出てもらいました。

＜明日は中国との決勝を迎えるが、自信や思いなどはあるか？＞
毎回向かっていくしかない。今までよりは絶対いい内容で戦いたいとは思っている。選手たちの気持ちも乗ってきているので、プラスαの力も出ると思います。

（中国を）苦しめます。

＜張本を杜凱琹に当てるオーダーを組んだのか？＞
今日は早田をエースに起用して、前半に張本を起用する予定ではあった。トップで相手のエース（杜凱琹選手）と張本が当たったが、当てにいったわけではないです。

＜平野を3番で起用し続けるのは、何か意図があるのか？＞
やはり早田をエースで起用していて、万が一張本がこけた時にも平野が3番で取ってくれて早田に回るので、負けないオーダーとして今日の分は組みました。

＜張本が第1、第2ゲームを落としたが、監督から見ていつもと違う部分はあったのか？＞
杜凱琹のバックハンドのタッチが良かったかと。バックサイドに詰めても（杜凱琹選手が）盛り返してきていた。ミドルに少しずつ詰めていこうとしたが、やはりバックハンドで返してきていたので苦しかった。

後半に杜凱琹選手のフォア前にサービスをうまく出し始めて、狙うコース自体もフォア側に集めだすと、相手が少しずつ崩れていった。張本もほぐれてきて、丁寧でひらめきを持ったプレーが随所で出始めた。

2ゲームを取られた段階では、ストレート負けしてもおかしくなかった試合でした。

＜そのような場面で、負けずに勝ち切れるところがやはり違うのか？＞
違いますね。流れからいくと張本も困った感じでベンチのムードも落ちていた。

その中で盛り返せたのは、（盛り返す）精神に長けているし、伊藤も一生懸命アドバイスをしてくれていた。チーム一体となって勝ち切れたかなと思います。

＜試合後に張本にどんな声掛けをしていたか？＞
1番若い15歳の（張本）選手が、相手のエースとの苦しい試合を勝ち切ってくれた。またラストまで回ってくる可能性はあるからゆっくり休んでと声をかけた。

＜（張本が）2ゲームを落として少し困った表情をしていたか？余裕はあったのか？＞
余裕はなかった。1番の試合は勝ったほうに勢いがつくので、嫌な流れになるかなと一瞬よぎりました。（張本が）勝ててよかったです。

＜中国戦はどのようなオーダーを考えているか？（中国は直近の2試合で王曼昱（ワンマンユ）ではなく王藝迪（ワンイーディ）を出しているが）＞
こちらとしては、王曼昱が来ることを想定している。きっと選手たちもそのように想定している。

早田も（王曼昱に）直近では2連敗していますし、王曼昱は手強いと思っています。ただ早田も中国の色々な選手と試合してきたので戦い方はよくなってきている。今までとは違うプレーがみられるかなと期待しています。

＜まずは前半でも1点を狙いたい？＞
ずっとストレートで負けているので、まず1点もぎ取りに行くことを絶対果たしたいと思っています。

＜男子日本の対中国戦から何か勇気はもらえたか？＞
残念ながらその時は（男女）同時に試合をしていたので見られてないが、良い試合をしたと話は聞いた。それ以上に女子はいい試合をしたいと思っています。

 

[zeio]

And LSS does it!

@TensorBackhand @longle I get your guys argument that on any individual day, variance can give you good results. But don't you guys think it's a little coincidental that the Korean team suddenly looks competitive with the Chinese team when they are comfortable at home, enjoying crowd support, and likely have an ideal training situation for this specific event?

I think this speaks to what @Tony's Table Tennis has always been talking about. Yes, the Chinese team have the best players and the best results. But part of their success may be due to how well they are able to replicate 'being at home' even when they are on the road. This includes preferential table time and always finding a way to stack a crowd in their favor in some random BRICS country where there's otherwise zero audience. When almost every WTT event around the world is full of Chinese ladies cheering for you, it does feel like a bit of an advantage.

Host advantage is a factor, but the sample si...ahem, the stats is a far bigger factor.

https://web.archive.org/web/2024012...5447522387&w=h0-lR9DoCLqfKmvh8K6UdCFVouv_Kj00 (07/16/2023 at 4:47pm)

The decision of picking WYD over CM and WMY is in line with the stats. It seems the CNT has accepted losing to the JNT as inevitable. It's Romania after that.

For the men's, the KNT turns out to pose the most threat in MS and MD. Sweden in MS and MD (not shown), Japan and Slovenia in MS (not shown) are also a force to beware.

MS

WS

MD
https://i.imgur.com/jxdnmF0.png
WD
[https://i.imgur.com/Bl0bcyt.png

XD
https://i.imgur.com/6LSNW9F.png

MT
https://i.imgur.com/muX7DIz.png
WT
https://i.imgur.com/CaioZMl.png

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=93247&PID;=1143110&title;=team-chinas-race-to-paris-2024-singles#1143110

Given the above, expect more "point fixing" for various players to happen down the road. I guess even they didn't expect WMY to crash out of the WTTC 2023 like that. WYD as the 3rd player used to be a fail-safe, but now she has a shot at the singles, again as another fail-safe.

10/2022

https://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92273&PID;=1133869&title;=wtt-champions-macao-2022-10-1923#1133869

Given the players handpicked for the selection trial of WTTC Finals 2022, it is safe to assume the following:
CXT will be the 5th player for WTTC 2023 and WT of Asian Games 2022. QTY has lost the race. CM, WMY, SYS, WYD and CXT will be the candidates for Paris 2024. Slowly but surely, CM will fade, WMY and SYS will play WS and one of them will play XD, and WYD/CXT will be the 3rd/reserve player.

They wanted to see if KM, CY et al. would be fit to serve as the reserve player for Paris 2024 but we all saw how it panned out. They will turn their focus on keeping WMY and SYS healthy until Los Angeles 2028.

 

[dingyibvs]

If it didn't work out at WTTC with all singles, then no chance at Olympics with their weaker doubles.

Having 3 players take 1 point each here requires the Ito from 2018/2019. I doubt Harimoto (first WTTC and first team final) could beat WYD (second WTTC and first team final) under all that pressure after almost losing to DHK the day before. Perhaps Kihara (second WTTC) could have been up to it, given that she has won before and played in the team final last time. Speaking of that, this is only Hirano's second WTTC and second team final and Hayata's second WTTC and first team final. Those 8 years really set Harimoto apart here. Miwa's brother was not even 15 back at WTTC 2018 and he was the starting player against KOR in QF and lost to JYS (also lost to Pitchford in match 2 in Grp).

Here is another factor. It seems Watanabe was either not aware of the CNT lineup being limited by the selection system, or that he didn't believe they would really go by the book, as he told the media that he expected WMY to play in the post-match interview after the SF match against HKG. He also gave his reasoning on fielding Harimoto first in that match and Hirano third throughout. I guess it's the same reasoning for the final.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...-race-to-tokyo-2020-singles.20935/post-295174


日本女子、5大会連続で中国との頂上決戦へ　渡辺監督「選手たちの気持ちも乗ってきている」＜世界卓球2024＞
https://rallys.online/topic/international/20240223wttc-japan/

It's pretty stupid to "go by the books" IMO, no other sport does it. Coaches of other sports change up the line up for any number of reasons all the time, for the "hot hand", for matchups, for mind games, for whatever reason. These types of rigid rules are just to offload the responsibility of choice making. If CNT had lost, Ma Lin can just blame the rules. If he'd made his own selections and they lost, then all the blame would fall on him.