JTTA: Selection System to be Revamped for Paris 2024

[driversbeat]

It is very normal where your best player, on merit, is giving the de-facto singles player position.

if you don't do that and your "test" fails, can you imagine the amount of backlash too, including from your best player.

"Merit" gave Ishikawa the 2nd Tokyo Olympics singles spot. JNT is free to do whatever they want, but you don't beat a team as strong as China without taking risks.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

"Merit" gave Ishikawa the 2nd Tokyo Olympics singles spot. JNT is free to do whatever they want, but you don't beat a team as strong as China without taking risks.

You make it sound like China is easily beatable by taking risks? JNT in the previous cycle was mainly still kids. Even China knows how to balance between talent and maturity and didn't send FZD until way older.

Everything is to warm up for Paris
who you put on singles today, will be seen as Paris singles too.

so if you not thinking of letting Hayata play, then of course, do as much testing as you like.
it is few months to go, how you risk - isn't just an opponent thing, but your main players mind and thought process.
people think it is okay to try out things, without affecting those that you "bench", the real world doesn't work like that. Only CNT has the power to demand players to bench themselves. JNT isn't an army like the CNT. The stuff Ito demonstrated, would of had her kicked out in CNT already.

This is where individual sports in a "teams" structure to me is silly. How big is "teams" in tennis, compared to it "individual aspect"..... If things don't go by merit (the JNT selection trial is players to choose themselves) - then it will open up for favoritism and scrutiny. People are way used to CNT, and don't understand that JNT is a bunch of singles players coming together and not a Team style like CNT.

This is a pointless tournament to say the very least and only opens up more cans of worms for entertaining one country that wants to push for it. In fact, more countries should of just ignored it. Especially those with players in both finals.

There is still no info on how points will be allocated. Everyone is eying for singles point, there is no one eying for doubles points and the OG XD pairing is the only one eying for XD points, else everything is pointless and this tournament should of occurred after the olympics and people can do any tests as they want.

So if it is pointless, the only gain JNT has is Miu playing in the finals or not. Maybe she can have one earlier singles game and get her points (no one knows the points or draw/matches system). Other than that, the question is - who will play XD in Olympics, and will you play them at this tournament too?
and then one of the XD pairing (if it is your best singles player), plays 2 matches in a row (which is silly too)?

To me, Lin Yunju playing is only for XD pairing with CSY, otherwise, he wouldn't play too.

 

[zeio]

On a related note, I suppose this also makes the case for using Harimoto/Kihara for singles + doubles with Hirano in the upcoming mixed team event. It's the perfect opportunity to test their singles ability and compatibility with Hirano under a team context, although such a scenario would cleanly knock Hirano out of the WTT Finals race. Tbh I'm still fearful that JNT will fix Hayata as the de-facto singles player and completely waste an opportunity to test out combinations given their track record.

Not expecting much from 白髪/White Hair, Watanabe's nickname coined by 5ch users. The running gag among 5ch users is that he is just tagging along as a tourist. When it comes to authority, he is likely in the same boat as Tasei after Miki House dispute over WTTC 2015. Murakami is the last head coach to wield some authority over the lineup. He fielded Hirano in every match (mostly 3rd singles) except for 3-2 KOR in Grp C, 3-1 HKG in QF, and 3-2 SGP in SF, ones in which he couldn't risk it.

https://mao.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/pingpong/1697007777/
0027名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!!
2023/10/11(水) 20:21:08.84ID:0+hvuFA0
>>25
白髪地蔵氏は協会の金で中国旅行の次は中東旅行かw

0331名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!!
2023/10/13(金) 17:12:35.28ID:FPJDTbBJ
何でベンチずっと白髪なのかの方が気になるな
もう石田が入れない大会や試合は別にないですよ？
五輪も石田入れるし
なんか石田可哀想w

0335名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!!
2023/10/13(金) 17:34:31.32ID:EPoovKOH
>>331
白髪オブジェとか白髪地蔵とか、アドバイスは選手がやってる
あの白髪は何のためにいる？また海外旅行か？とか散々言われて
協会から代表監督やってるポーズさせられてんだろ
早田は被害者

0640名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!!
2023/10/15(日) 12:04:25.10ID:wpecUsLn
中澤は平野や木原復活させたとかこのスレで大好評やったなｗ
男子スレなんか張本兄の足攣り事件後から田勢死ねとかスゲーぞ
逆にここは白髪を評価し始める奴現れたりおもろいわｗｗｗ

"Merit" gave Ishikawa the 2nd Tokyo Olympics singles spot. JNT is free to do whatever they want, but you don't beat a team as strong as China without taking risks.

T_T

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/all-japan-championship-2020-jan-13-19.22651/post-303200

 

[tackyfh]

right now only Dong Zhimin (Hari's), Wang Rui (Kihara's), Wang Kai (Kinoshita Meister coach) and Tanaka's coach (his win over WCQ) were the JPN coaches that stand out to me, and they're all chinese. Japanese coaches need to do better tbh

 

[apacible]

The 6th Japan Road to Paris Olympic Trials dated Nov 25-26 are fast approaching. See the website here: https://jtta.or.jp/tour/13250

The draws have been released already. Like the 5th Trials, draws were done in order of current Japan Paris Points Standings (e.g. 1 v 16, 2 v 15, etc.)

Men's Draw: https://jtta.s3.ap-northeast-1.amaz.../11/21155119/2023_Zennoh_CUP_OSAKA_M_Draw.pdf

Women's Draw: https://jtta.s3.ap-northeast-1.amaz.../11/21155118/2023_Zennoh_CUP_OSAKA_F_Draw.pdf

Furthermore, it doesn't seem there will be any TV Tokyo live stream. Like the 3rd Trials, it will only be broadcasted on FUJI TV and FOD Premium.

I made a previous post on how to watch FOD Premium if you have Japan VPN https://mytabletennis.net/forum/2023-zennoh-cup-osaka-11-2526_topic91479_post1134796.html#1134796

 

[tackyfh]

News just in, Hirano and Ito both lost in the 2nd round of the Osaka Trial to Nagasaki & Miwa. Ito lost isn't too unpredictable but Nagasaki truly made an upset

 

[driversbeat]

Hirano is in a similar situation as the previous cycle, barely holding onto 2nd position and in danger of being overtaken. It's up to her to make a breakthrough this time. Ito will only take 2nd place if she ends up 5th and Hirano 8th, but Hirano has been trying (and failing) to extend her lead for some time now.

 

[zeio]

Zennoh Cup Osaka
5th-8th
Hirano 4-0 Ito
01, 11, 15, 45 Ito served off the table, 55 slight net for Hirano, 75, 78, 118
4 in a row for Ito then 6 in a row for Hirano then 3 in a row for Ito then 4 in a row for Hirano. My head is spinning...
03, 13, 14, 104, 105, 115
9 in a row for Hirano after the opening...
01, 11, 12, 22, 24 corner edge for Ito's serve, 84 epic shot after epic shot for Hirano, 86 slight net for Ito, 96, 97, 107, 109 TO for Hirano, 119
6 in a row for Hirano in middle game...
1 game away for Hirano
10, 13, 53 slight net for Hirano, 55 Ito got these 2 points by not turning the corner when receiving, 105, 118
5 in a row for Hirano after middle game...
Ito missed a ton of FHs today.
Hirano really wanted it today. She saved everything for Ito.

Tsk, tsk, tsk, stakes!

Hirano lost 2-4 in QF after leading 2-1 at Zennoh Cup Hiratsuka in early May (Ito 2-4 Nagasaki in R16), only to win 4-0 at Zennoh Cup Tokyo in late July (Ito 4-3 Hirano in SF, Hirano had 2 match points).

It's very clear by now that, in this cycle, Hirano's true form only comes out when her back is against the ropes. Her target is Ito. Her other teammates are on the back burner. Her ~57% win rate against China in 2022 and 2023 isn't just for show.

Selection checkpoints:
Asian Games 2022 Selection Trial = 1st for Hirano (avenged her losses to Kihara and Ishikawa in the first selection at Lion Cup 2022 and Sato at All-Japan TTC 2022, and ended her losing streak against Kihara)
Zennoh Cup Funabashi -> WTTC 2023 = 1st for Hirano (had the toughest draw, 4-1 Mende R32, 4-3 Yokoi R16, 4-0 Ito QF, 4-2 Shibata SF, 4-2 Hayata F)
Nojima Cup 2023 -> ATTC 2023 = 1st for Hirano (4-3 Ito, G7 7:9 -> 11:9)

 

[zeio]

Hirano will widen her lead over Ito by at least another 10 pts, that is, 34.5 pts.

Ito will have to finish 2 rounds beyond Hirano to make a comeback at Zennihon Takkyu 2024.

Same case if Hirano finishes 5th and Ito 7th tomorrow, the gap will widen by 20 pts, or 44.5 pts. And if Hirano reaches the SF, then Ito will be out no matter what.

If Hirano finishes 5th and Ito 8th tomorrow, the gap will widen by 30 pts, or 54.5 pts, then Ito will have to finish 3 rounds beyond if Hirano reaches the QF (Ito has to win). And if Hirano reaches the SF, then Ito will be out no matter what.

https://jtta.s3.ap-northeast-1.amaz...8/18114506/RTP_point20220922-20230818-4-1.pdf
Zennihon Takkyu 2024
W 120
F 100
SF 80
QF 50
R16 20

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Hirano will widen her lead over Ito by at least another 10 pts, that is, 34.5 pts.

Ito will have to finish 2 rounds beyond Hirano to make a comeback at Zennihon Takkyu 2024. Same case if Hirano finishes 5th and Ito 7th tomorrow, the gap will widen by 20 pts, or 44.5 pts.

If Hirano finishes 5th and Ito 8th tomorrow, the gap will widen by 30 pts, or 54.5 pts, then Ito will have to finish 3 rounds beyond if Hirano reaches the QF (Ito has to win). And if Hirano reaches the SF, then Ito will be out no matter what.

https://jtta.s3.ap-northeast-1.amaz...8/18114506/RTP_point20220922-20230818-4-1.pdf
Zennihon Takkyu 2024
W 120
F 100
SF 80
QF 50
R16 20

it looks more and more likely its gonna be Hirano. And then i bet for Miwa for being the 3rd teammate, even though Kihara and Ito might be preferred.

 

[zeio]

Unless Ito gets 10 or even 15 pts by beating one of the top 3 CNT players at the WTT Finals Women Nagoya 2023, it is gonna be Hirano. From JTTA's perspective, they wanna choose Harimoto over Kihara to prepare her for LA 2028 and Brisbane 2032. The fact they fielded the former in the WT final at the Asian Games 2022 makes their stance crystal clear. Ito knew it, hence her statement on multiple occasions.

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

I prefer Kihara as the 3rd player for Paris, but you can't go wrong with either one.

Hayata and Nagasaki should just step aside and let Miwa and Kihara duke it out in the finals!

 

[zeio]

In terms of stats, Hirano, Kihara and Harimoto is actually the best but risky lineup if Japan wants to beat China, with the latter two having no prior experience, whereas Hirano was the reserve at Rio 2016 and Hayata at Tokyo 2020. Kihara/Harimoto for the doubles, Hirano for the first singles, and Harimoto for the second singles. This lineup can't afford to have Hirano go offline and is potentially vulnerable against South Korea so requires the draw to work in their favor.

In reality, Hayata, Hirano and Kihara/Harimoto (3rd member/reserve) is likely what JTTA has in mind. Having Hayata and Hirano would reduce the doubles strength and flexibility but would be more assuring before the final. Unless Harimoto overtakes Kihara in standings, JTTA may be forced to play by the book and pick the latter, at which point winning gold is pretty much out of the question. At the end of the day, Hirano, Kihara and Harimoto are affiliated with Kinoshita Group, so they are the biggest winner regardless.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Miwa did it
4-2 against Nagasaki in SF
And 4-2 against Hayata in the final

I was only a few months too early in calling Miwa the N1 in Japan. I predict she will confirm in January at the national champs.

From there she will conquer the world !

 

[zeio]

3rd-4th
Kihara 4-0 Nagasaki (2, 7, 8, 9)
Shinozuka 4-1 Arinobu (6, 7, -8, 5, 9)

F
Hayata 2-4 Harimoto
31, 35, 85, 86, 96, 97, 107 slight net for Hayata, 117
4 in a row for Harimoto then 5 in a row for Hayata in the middle game. Harimoto can't win that way.
03, 13, 14, 24, 25, 35, 38, 68, 69, 79, 710, 810, 811
Harimoto handled Hayata's serve (mostly side-topspin) more aggressively in G2, rather than constantly pushing those in G1.
10 slight net for Hayata, 20 slight net for Hayata, 25 endline edge for Harimoto, 45, 47, 67 corner edge for Hayata, 77 Harimoto served into the net, 711
Harimoto served much more pure backspin in G3. After taking G3, her dad told her to serve no-spin from time to time and instead of pushing must chiquita when receiving.
02, 12, 13, 53 dead net for Hayata, 63, 64, 74, 75, 95, 96, 106, 1010, 1210 racket edge for Hayata
Harimoto had the initiative early on but Hayata forced her way through.
02, 12, 13, 33 sideline edge for Hayata, 34 slight net for Harimoto?, 35, 45 slight net for Hayata?, 55, 57, 67 Harimoto served into her nose and TO for Harimoto, 77, 78, 88, 89, 99, 910, 1010 thick endline edge for Hayata, 1110 slight net for Hayata, 1111, 1211 net and edge for Hayata, 1214
First time Harimoto takes 3 games off of Hayata?
01, 31, 32, 42, 43, 53, 54, 64, 66 slight net for Harimoto, 67, 77, 78, 88 TO by 金惠美/Kin Hoimei?, 89, 99, 910 slight racket edge for Harimoto?, 911

Miwa's brother looking on...

 

[tackyfh]

I didn't expect Miwa to win Hina that early, but overall it's a low-stakes match for Hina so I hope she won't sweat too much about it.

With Togami's recent performance, his win is predictable though I've expected a 4-0 lol

 

[zeio]

Harimoto 1-4 Togami (3, -8, -8, -11, -8)
G2 61, 75 missed that popup with the BH, 710, 810, 811.
Lost 5 in a row from 75 to 710 all on BH. He could've smashed that popup with FH. Same old mindset problem.
G4 03 TO for Harimoto, 06, 37, 97, 910, 1010, 1011, 1111, 1113
Harimoto kept nagging about Togami's nets and edges during the TO...

No Harimoto siblings on podium together.

That girl who got Harimoto's smelly jersey is here too.

69...

See? I told you Togami just needed to prepare for Harimoto year-round.

Zennoh must be selling a lot of that beef curry...

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

 

[driversbeat]

Kinoshita just beat Nippon Life Red Elf 3-1 in the latest T-league matchup post 6th Paris selection tournament.
Interestingly Kinoshita played Kihara/Harimoto in doubles and Harimoto again in the 4th match where she lost against Fan Siqi.

Hirano looking sharp against Mori with a 3-0, much better than the previous time they met when she only edged out 3-2.

Not sure why Ito and Hayata are not playing in this matchup though? Both featured in the match against Kyushuu where Hayata beat Idesawa 3-0 and Ito beat Taguchi 3-1. Ito looks to be in ok spirits considering the situation that she's currently in.

 

[zeio]

Speak of the devil. Hayata's in-depth interview with Table Tennis Kingdom.
「オリンピックに出ることが目標ではなくて、オリンピックで金メダルを獲ることが目標」。早田ひな、決意のモデルチェンジ
https://world-tt.com/blog/news/archives/139493

On day 1 of Zennoh Cup Osaka, Hayata says she barely beat WYD twice in a row and she had a rough idea where she stood. Yet, the match against WMY at WTT CS Frankfurt 2023 gave her a reality check even more than playing against SYS and CM. Realizing that she will not win gold at Paris 2024 at this rate and in order to beat China's top 3, she has changed how she plays (been 2 weeks) to reach higher and become World No. 1. She points out that in doing so she may be able to beat the top 3 but may lose to other players. (so like Hirano) Because of that, she may lose to someone here but she has to do it to become World No. 1.

On day 2, Hayata says it was just a matter of time before she would lose to Harimoto.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/wtt-champions-frankfurt-2023.32185/post-430118

Even Ito failed, you expect Hayata to get it done?

WS SF
WMY 4-1 Hayata
02, 12 Hayata served into the net, 22, 27, 37, 38 Hayata missed the FH, 118. 8 in a row
TT quotient is not enough. Got carried away.
40, 51, 71, 72, 112
World: How did Hayata reach the SF?
Szocs: The biggest mistake I made.
01 epic FH from Hayata but useless, 11, 13, 23, 33, 37 referee called, something wrong with WMY's left knee, medical TO, 39, 79, 710, 810, 811 semi-tomahawk serve frmo Hayata nailed it
01, 51, 52, 62, 63, 73, 75, 95 Hayata served off the table, 96 TO for WMY, 106, 108, 118
01, 21, 22, 32, 33, 43 TO for Hayata, 45 yellow to WMY for stalling, 75 slight net for WMY, 77, 117

Retire, Hayata!

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/wtt-champions-frankfurt-2023.32185/post-429671

Hayata: Hey, that was my prey, Szocs-san!

https://mytabletennis.net/forum/for...tle=wtt-contender-zagreb-2023-6-267-2#1142859

Hirano (WR1 SYS and WR3 WYD in 2023) and Szocs (WR2 CM in 2022 and 2023, and WR7 CXT in 2023) are the only 2 non-CNT players to have defeated more than 1 core CNT player in the Paris 2024 period.
WTT CT Zagreb 2023 F Hirano 4-3 SYS
Singapore Smash 2023 R32 Hirano 3-2 WYD

WTT CS Frankfurt 2023 R16 Szocs 3-2 CM
WTT CS Macao 2023 R32 Szocs 3-1 CXT
WTT CS Macao 2022 R16 Szocs 3-2 CM

That is why coming close doesn't cut it anymore. Hayata needs to beat more than just WYD. Even Mizutani said back in July beating what was technically the No. 4 player on the CNT was only "meeting the bare minimum".

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/19th-asian-games-hangzhou.31953/post-425570

To have a chance against China, Hayata needs to show the same dominance she has on her teammates.

Back in the Tokyo 2020 cycle, Hirano (from late-2016 to mid-2017) and Ito (from early-2018 or mid-2018 to late 2019 or early 2020) showed dominance against teammates and overseas players, but the level of dominance they had over their teammates was not as lopsided as Hayata has had so far. In other words, Hayata has displayed asymmetrical dominance when it comes to overseas players.